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Retskrad

macrumors regular
Original poster
Apr 1, 2022
200
672
Apple does not make laptops with unique designs anymore. They recently redesigned the MacBook Air and Pro's and they went with a utilitarian and conservative look. They did not push any boundaries.

They don't make the most bleeding edge phones anymore (Samsung is pushing the envelope with foldables).

They don't make the best looking wireless earbuds.

They don't make the best looking smartwatches.

They don't make the best looking tablets.

On the software front, Google has caught up on Android's UI and has the same polish as iOS. Apple is no longer the software design leader.

The only area that Apple is truly ahead is in chip design. Does that mean Apple is now a chip company first and design second? Also, does that mean Apple no longer attracts the very best designers and instead attracts the best chip designers?
 
Last edited:

darngooddesign

macrumors P6
Jul 4, 2007
18,362
10,114
Atlanta, GA
Apple does not make laptops with unique designs anymore. They recently redesigned the MacBook Air and Pro's and they went with a utilitarian and conservative look. They did not push any boundaries.

They don't make the most bleeding edge phones anymore (Samsung is pushing the envelope with foldables).

They don't make the best looking wireless earbuds.

They don't make the best looking smartwatches.

They don't make the best looking tablets.

On the software front, Google has caught up on Android's UI and has the same polish as iOS. Apple is no longer the software design leader.

The only area that Apple is truly ahead is in chip design. Does that mean Apple is now a chip company first and design second? Also, does that mean Apple no longer attracts the very best designers and instead attracts the best chip designers?
Lots of subjective statements in your post.
 

kasakka

macrumors 68020
Oct 25, 2008
2,389
1,076
That's a lot of subjective statements. For designing things like you list, often it's a mix of form and function. Apple likes to keep things familiar rather than changing their design language all the time. Their devices have a particular look that is recognizable as "this is an Apple device".

I don't feel they have much need to change their designs at this point. Just improve functionality, whether through hardware or software advancements.
 

Colstan

macrumors 6502
Jul 30, 2020
330
711
A lot of opinions stated as absolute facts. Apple isn't a chip maker, per se, they are a device maker. They control the entire widget, the whole stack, from the microcontrollers running I/O to the operating system and primary applications. You can disagree with Apple's design philosophy, but I don't see how it can be described as commonplace, it very much unique, and very much in line with Apple's heritage.
 

wonderings

macrumors 6502a
Nov 19, 2021
957
947
As others have said, lots of subjective thoughts.

- While I like the idea of folding, I think it is a small segment of the market and Apple never really takes chances coming out with anything like that first.

- best looking earbuds? First off that just seems crazy that anyone cares how they look. Feel would be most important to me, can't say I even give thought to how the ear buds look. That all being said it is a design and that is subjective, some will love it, some won't care, and others will hate the design

- Same goes for the Apple watch. Style is subjective. I would say there are no good looking smart watches, nothing like well constructed and crafted real watches.

- More subjective thoughts on style. I like the iPad Pro design a lot, simple, functional, a good blend of style and function there, despite the limitations Apple has on them with iPad OS.

I can't speak for Androids UI, some people like it, others don't, I am happy we have options. Not sure I would have ever called Apple the design leader when it came to portable UI.

If you were going down this route I don't think I would call them strictly a chip company, they do wonders integrating hardware and software, their stuff is exceptionally well optimized to work together. This is more then the CPU, it is everything and Apple is generally masters at this.
 

ponzicoinbro

Suspended
Aug 5, 2021
1,081
2,085
Apple does not make laptops with unique designs anymore.

Can’t. I can’t even…

1660145992602.gif
 

fwmireault

macrumors 68020
Jul 4, 2019
2,288
9,704
Montréal, Canada
Apple does not make laptops with unique designs anymore. They recently redesigned the MacBook Air and Pro's and they went with a utilitarian and conservative look. They did not push any boundaries.

They don't make the most bleeding edge phones anymore (Samsung is pushing the envelope with foldables).

They don't make the best looking wireless earbuds.

They don't make the best looking smartwatches.

They don't make the best looking tablets.

On the software front, Google has caught up on Android's UI and has the same polish as iOS. Apple is no longer the software design leader.

The only area that Apple is truly ahead is in chip design. Does that mean Apple is now a chip company first and design second? Also, does that mean Apple no longer attracts the very best designers and instead attracts the best chip designers?
For me, the 2016-2020 MacBook Pro design was much more conservative than the one they have now. Putting a notch on a laptop was a bold move that nobody expected. The shape of the body is pretty unique too. Now, we can argue if this design is better than the older one, but I would not qualify the new one as conservative.

I do believe that Apple design the best looking tablets. Same for smartwatches, but I have to put them in equal place with Samsung and Pixel watches. I agree that there are some more great looking earbuds than AirPods, but the AirPods look is way more iconic.

On the software side, I agree that Android has done some great job in the last few years to polish the UI. That said, the thing where Apple will always have an advantage is consistency between devices. The Android UI can vary greatly depending on the device you use. Apple is rarely the first to announce new software features, but when they bring them, they often give a more reliable and polished experience than what you'll get on Android.

Beside that, I don't believe that Apple aims to become primary a chip design company. They do design great chip, but the only reason that they do this themselves is to achieve better integration and efficiency with their products and to stop relying on suppliers to give upgrades to their products.

As others have stated, most of your point is subjective, as my present comment. No harm in that, but you can't base a business strategy shift based on your design preferences
 

donawalt

Contributor
Sep 10, 2015
1,284
630
Yes, this is truly what I want in an iPhone:

"The just announced Samsung Galaxy Z Flip 4 and Galaxy Z Fold 4 are the clearest evidence that Apple is correct to hold off on releasing a folding iPhone. Flexible screens still come with too many problems to be acceptable in an iPhone.
Of course, that hasn’t stopped Samsung from releasing handsets with these drawbacks. You only have to look at the newly unveiled Samsung Galaxy Z Flip 4 or Galaxy Z Fold 4 to see one reason why Apple won’t release its own version with the current technology. There’s a visible crease across the middle of the flexible screen.

Take a look at Engadget‘s hands-on video of the Fold 4 to see the crease. And its preliminary review of the Flip 4 says, “if you’re hoping for a life without creases, it’s not here just yet.” iPhone users won’t tolerate such an eyesore. Not even to get a 7.6-inch screen in a pocket-size handset."

Screen Shot 2022-08-10 at 2.31.24 PM.png


 

kasakka

macrumors 68020
Oct 25, 2008
2,389
1,076
Yes, this is truly what I want in an iPhone:

"The just announced Samsung Galaxy Z Flip 4 and Galaxy Z Fold 4 are the clearest evidence that Apple is correct to hold off on releasing a folding iPhone. Flexible screens still come with too many problems to be acceptable in an iPhone.
Of course, that hasn’t stopped Samsung from releasing handsets with these drawbacks. You only have to look at the newly unveiled Samsung Galaxy Z Flip 4 or Galaxy Z Fold 4 to see one reason why Apple won’t release its own version with the current technology. There’s a visible crease across the middle of the flexible screen.

Take a look at Engadget‘s hands-on video of the Fold 4 to see the crease. And its preliminary review of the Flip 4 says, “if you’re hoping for a life without creases, it’s not here just yet.” iPhone users won’t tolerate such an eyesore. Not even to get a 7.6-inch screen in a pocket-size handset."

View attachment 2041502


Apple does things its users consider bad all the time, whether it's flexing iPad Pros, iPad Mini wobbly screen updates, issues with speakers and webcams on Macbook Pros or Studio Display etc. To me a crease in a display would be fairly low on the list of concerns.

In practice those foldable phones look pretty good and the crease is IMO not an issue in real world use at least based on the Fold 3 I tried. It's there, but it's not very noticeable when using it. For me the bigger issue is Android itself as I don't like the UI decisions they have made in the recent years.

A foldable iPhone Pro would probably be a must buy for me - well, a second gen model at least because I have learned my lesson about buying first gen Apple products.
 

Blue Quark

macrumors regular
Oct 25, 2020
196
147
Probabilistic
So, a couple different thoughts on this.

First off, @OP, Apple's designs are still distinctive to this day. They were distinctive before Jonny Ive, they were distinctive while he was there, and they're still distinctive now that he's gone. Whether we're talking their desktops, laptops, phones, or tablets, it doesn't take much effort to distinguish an bit of Apple hardware from someone else's.

There's a reason other companies copy Apple's design choices, and not the other way around.

Separately, I agree to an extent that oftentimes it feels Apple is resting on its laurels. Maybe there are risks out there yet to take, and maybe Apple ought to be taking them. Then again, in the Linux world, where there is no central authority and nobody to make ultimate decisions about things, and where anyone can literally rewrite or redesign any part of any program they might ever want to, there's a reason most Linux desktops more-or-less look like the Mac's Finder. Or, to invoke a little bit of Star Trek VI here, “Just because we can do a thing, it does not necessarily follow that we should do that thing.”

A very good portion of the CPU-related leaps and gains we've made over the last, say, four decades have for the most part been a matter of finding out ways of doing things, then improving, then finding better ways, and then learning to streamline the process and effectively eliminate all the not-really-the-best ways of doing those things. And in that time, we've gone from the 8088 to the 80x86 to the eventual slew of iterations of x86_64, and simultaneously 68000 to the '020/030/040, to PPC 601 (et al) to the G3/G4/G5, then into the x86_64 world, and then out of it again into the ARM world, which has been being worked on for probably 20 or 30 years at this point in different ways and forms, finally maturing into something genuinely usable as a basis for a workstation (desktop and laptop). Apple's doing a very respectable job of holding their own, given that their competition has been from-scratch-designing and building CPUs for longer than Apple has been in business.

Now, I've owned an iPhone 4S but mostly Android-based smart phones, and while in many respects Android devices are more desirable, one of the biggest problems, historically, with Android is the licensing and fragmentation. It's been pretty wretched for a lot of people for a long time. There are and have been, generationally, some exceptional Android-based phones out there coming at us from Samsung, LG, and others. However, there have also been some pretty wretched ones as well, mostly from lower-end and basically no-name companies, but also from companies we ostensibly respect (such as Samsung and LG).

Ultimately, this is a free cosmos (at least according to the 4th Doctor) and so you can choose what you want to buy, whether it's from Apple or some place else.
 
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mdhaus72

macrumors regular
Dec 29, 2018
222
299
Apple does not make laptops with unique designs anymore. They recently redesigned the MacBook Air and Pro's and they went with a utilitarian and conservative look. They did not push any boundaries.

They don't make the most bleeding edge phones anymore (Samsung is pushing the envelope with foldables).

They don't make the best looking wireless earbuds.

They don't make the best looking smartwatches.

They don't make the best looking tablets.

On the software front, Google has caught up on Android's UI and has the same polish as iOS. Apple is no longer the software design leader.

The only area that Apple is truly ahead is in chip design. Does that mean Apple is now a chip company first and design second? Also, does that mean Apple no longer attracts the very best designers and instead attracts the best chip designers?
Wow. There are A LOT of assumptions in that post....the first one being that everyone would agree that Apple is not doing any of that stuff. I think most would disagree that Apple is not leading on anything at all anymore. For example, I really like the re-design of the laptops and I'm glad it has swung back to a more traditional look (at least temporarily). I also think their phone design is good and all is also great on the earbud, watch, table and software front.

The reason why Apple is designing their own chips is because they finally wised up and realized that they could drastically boost their products' power and efficiency if they simply designed exclusive processors for themselves. Plus, it ends up saving them money in the long-run because they no longer have to keep maintaining and negotiating deals with companies like Intel and AMD. That leads to more profit...which is what every company is trying to achieve.

So TLDR...No, Apple is not a "chip company first and design second."
 
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Retskrad

macrumors regular
Original poster
Apr 1, 2022
200
672

Slartibart

macrumors 68040
Aug 19, 2020
3,142
2,817

jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,859
4,599
I don't know why people make excuses for Apple. It's a fact that they're extremely conservative and take no risk with the MacBook line-up. Dell is showing with the XPS 13 that you can still make fresh and modern looking laptops. MacBook designs are too conservative coming from a company that is supposed to have design and "think different" at it's core.
Headline from The Verge:

From: Dell XPS 13 Plus Review

DELL XPS 13 PLUS REVIEW: XPS PLUS, BATTERY MINUS​

The XPS 13 has a new design and a whole bunch of new problems

Verge Score: 6

BAD STUFF​

  • Luxury pricing
  • Gets very hot under not super intense loads
  • Not great battery life
  • Very few ports (and no headphone jack)
  • LED function keys feel a bit weird
  • Touchpad is invisible and a bit shallow
So other than that, it's great.
 

mdhaus72

macrumors regular
Dec 29, 2018
222
299
I don't know why people make excuses for Apple. It's a fact that they're extremely conservative and take no risk with the MacBook line-up. Dell is showing with the XPS 13 that you can still make fresh and modern looking laptops. MacBook designs are too conservative coming from a company that is supposed to have design and "think different" at it's core.
What if Apple's philosophy around "think different" is, "Let's not toss around new designs strictly for the sake of trying to claim that we're 'hip?'"
 

ADGrant

macrumors 68000
Mar 26, 2018
1,689
1,059
Apple does things its users consider bad all the time, whether it's flexing iPad Pros, iPad Mini wobbly screen updates, issues with speakers and webcams on Macbook Pros or Studio Display etc. To me a crease in a display would be fairly low on the list of concerns.

In practice those foldable phones look pretty good and the crease is IMO not an issue in real world use at least based on the Fold 3 I tried. It's there, but it's not very noticeable when using it. For me the bigger issue is Android itself as I don't like the UI decisions they have made in the recent years.
A crease down the middle of the screen would be unacceptable for me.
 

ADGrant

macrumors 68000
Mar 26, 2018
1,689
1,059
I don't know why people make excuses for Apple. It's a fact that they're extremely conservative and take no risk with the MacBook line-up. Dell is showing with the XPS 13 that you can still make fresh and modern looking laptops. MacBook designs are too conservative coming from a company that is supposed to have design and "think different" at it's core.
You see "fresh and modern", I see a laptop with no function keys and no escape keys. And a trackpad I can't see.
 

Feyl

Cancelled
Aug 24, 2013
964
1,951
Can’t. I can’t even…

View attachment 2041409
What? It’s definitely true. No doubt about that. What’s unique about Apple now in terms of anything? How’s Apple different in a meanigful way other than they make the best SoC and maybe the best build quality. They could shine and show their passion in software, which was always the soul of any product, but they choose to be like everybody else.
 
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