Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Is It Worth Repairing a 2017 iMac With Frequent, Irritating and Undiagnosable Kernel Panics?

Buadhai said:
Do you have suggestions for troubleshooting steps that I haven't yet taken?
Click to expand...
well start from scratch use system cloned on different mac for a while to verify software ok, while testing faulty one. for faulty one boot off clean system (and no peripherals) run techtool pro check all esp ram and HD for bad blocks. depending on result then replace hd with sata ssd run for a while, if ram bad replace ram, if still no good replace cpu. if still no good throw away. sorry but after the boot off external ssd part you need to open it up to go deeper.
 
I don't have the expertise or the tools to open an iMac.

Which brings us back to the question in the OP. Is it worth it to pay someone to do that when the results are so uncertain? I think not.
 
Buadhai said:
I don't have the expertise or the tools to open an iMac.

Which brings us back to the question in the OP. Is it worth it to pay someone to do that when the results are so uncertain? I think not.
Click to expand...
When I diagnose a mac the first thing I do is boot it off a clean system, one of mine with techtool installed and run some tests. Does yours have a spinner or fusion drive ? Because its a 2017 you can boot it off the ssd and run it all from there, like a samsung T7 plugged into the usb c port. If your problem is the internal HD then it wont crash anymore, probably. You could even import your files from the internal drive with migration assistant.
BUT if its the ram or processor then buy another computer and give that one to someone who can open it up, because there is no other way .....

so there is your chain. 1 software 2 disk 3 ram 4 cpu 5 motherboard... you can only address 1 and 2 without opening it up.. economically, I would change the disk for someone, but I only go deeper, removing the motherboard, when its one of mine because of the time involved.
 
Last edited:
So, the first thing I'd need to do is buy an external SSD from which to boot. A Samsung T7 costs about 4000 baht or just over US$100. For me that's a fairly big risk for an uncertain result. I'll think about it. And then, TechTool Pro is another US$170.

I don't have a different Mac from which I could clone a system. I suppose I can create a boot disk from scratch and boot from that and slowly build it up to a useable system.

You say boot with no peripherals. Does that include mouse and keyboard?
 
Buadhai said:
So, the first thing I'd need to do is buy an external SSD from which to boot. A Samsung T7 costs about 4000 baht or just over US$100. For me that's a fairly big risk for an uncertain result. I'll think about it. And then, TechTool Pro is another US$170.

I don't have a different Mac from which I could clone a system. I suppose I can create a boot disk from scratch and boot from that and slowly build it up to a useable system.

You say boot with no peripherals. Does that include mouse and keyboard?
Click to expand...
you need a mouse and keyboard. any backup drive would do. no idea about other software.
 
Buadhai said:
Any backup drive would do as the new boot drive or any backup drive would do for migrating software and user data?
Click to expand...
yes, but it will be a bit slow as a boot drive, still ok to test. An ssd could actually replace the internal if its plugged into the usb-c port
 
I found a T5 that I bought for my wife that she never used, so I’ll use that. I’m away from home for a few days so won’t be able to do this until next week.

Thanks for your help and suggestions. Even if it doesn’t resolve the problem, I will have learned a few things.
 
Buadhai said:
I found a T5 that I bought for my wife that she never used, so I’ll use that. I’m away from home for a few days so won’t be able to do this until next week.

Thanks for your help and suggestions. Even if it doesn’t resolve the problem, I will have learned a few things.
Click to expand...
You should make a clean boot drive on the T5 and run it for a while. If your problems are software or disk related there is a high probability they will go away, even though the internal drive is still there. Of course, if its ram related it wont help but good luck.
 
macguru9999 said:
You should make a clean boot drive on the T5 and run it for a while. If your problems are software or disk related there is a high probability they will go away, even though the internal drive is still there. Of course, if its ram related it wont help but good luck.
Click to expand...
A couple of questions:

  1. Can I safely move my account from the existing boot drive to the new (external) boot drive using Migration Assistant?
  2. I was away for five days. Not a single kernel panic during that period. I have often gone as many as ten days without a panic. How long do I wait before I decide that the internal boot drive, or software on it, was the problem?
 
Buadhai said:
A couple of questions:

  1. Can I safely move my account from the existing boot drive to the new (external) boot drive using Migration Assistant?
  2. I was away for five days. Not a single kernel panic during that period. I have often gone as many as ten days without a panic. How long do I wait before I decide that the internal boot drive, or software on it, was the problem?
Click to expand...
1. yes if it fits, but try a generic identity first to test if your profile has the problem
2. no idea, but if you are not using it then its not much of a test
 
macguru9999 said:
1. yes if it fits, but try a generic identity first to test if your profile has the problem
2. no idea, but if you are not using it then its not much of a test
Click to expand...
1. OK. I've set up my own account on my wife's M1 iMac so I can use that for actual work.
2. Oddly, almost all of the kernel panics happen when I'm away from the machine. I almost never witness one while I'm sitting in front of it.

I had the first one in six days this evening. It happened while I was out on the porch enjoying an evening beer.
 
After long and careful consideration, I've decided not to do this test.

The problem is that in order for the test to be valid, I'd have to boot from the external drive for at least ten days and possibly more. That means doing without many of the things I've set up on the internal drive and on my personal account. I could set all those up on the external boot drive and a generic identity, but this would be a tedious and time consuming task and involve making significant changes on both local and remote machines. Things I'd have to set up or change include:

• Postfix SMTP server
• MacPorts
• Numerous shell scripts and the launchd plists that control them
• Public/Private keys on the local and remote machines
• Remote (reverse) SSH tunnels on remote machines

And many more, some of which I probably wouldn't discover until something important stopped working.

It's hard for me to justify taking the time and effort to do all this on a drive that might be in use for just a couple of weeks and for a test that might not even be conclusive.

Since the frequency of kernel panics has fallen off quite a bit, it makes more sense to just put up with them until I decide on buying a new machine on which setting everything up will actually be worth the effort.

@macguru9999 - Thanks for your help and suggestions.
 
Buadhai said:
After long and careful consideration, I've decided not to do this test.

The problem is that in order for the test to be valid, I'd have to boot from the external drive for at least ten days and possibly more. That means doing without many of the things I've set up on the internal drive and on my personal account. I could set all those up on the external boot drive and a generic identity, but this would be a tedious and time consuming task and involve making significant changes on both local and remote machines. Things I'd have to set up or change include:

• Postfix SMTP server
• MacPorts
• Numerous shell scripts and the launchd plists that control them
• Public/Private keys on the local and remote machines
• Remote (reverse) SSH tunnels on remote machines

And many more, some of which I probably wouldn't discover until something important stopped working.

It's hard for me to justify taking the time and effort to do all this on a drive that might be in use for just a couple of weeks and for a test that might not even be conclusive.

Since the frequency of kernel panics has fallen off quite a bit, it makes more sense to just put up with them until I decide on buying a new machine on which setting everything up will actually be worth the effort.

@macguru9999 - Thanks for your help and suggestions.
Click to expand...
no worries, sounds like using a different machine, either buying a new one or using another, is your best bet then. But it would be funny if one of your custom scripts was the culprit and your problems started all over again.
 
macguru9999 said:
no worries, sounds like using a different machine, either buying a new one or using another, is your best bet then. But it would be funny if one of your custom scripts was the culprit and your problems started all over again.
Click to expand...
Not real funny!

It's highly unlikely that a script causes a kernel panic. None of them do anything but execute ordinary shell commands. And, none of the kernel panic times correspond to when scripts are run. Only a couple run more than once a day. Those check bandwidth and update a DDNS server.
 
Buadhai said:
Not real funny!

It's highly unlikely that a script causes a kernel panic. None of them do anything but execute ordinary shell commands. And, none of the kernel panic times correspond to when scripts are run. Only a couple run more than once a day. Those check bandwidth and update a DDNS server.
Click to expand...
ok , but if you are not prepared to do any troubleshooting or fault isolation then the joke is on you, don't you think ? but seriously you are probably right its not the scripts, its HD, CPU MBo in that order of likelihood
 
Last edited:
macguru9999 said:
ok , but if you are not prepared to do any troubleshooting or fault isolation then the joke is on you, don't you think ?
Click to expand...
Well, I did all the fault isolation that I could think of other than creating a virgin boot disk. I've let the machine run with no peripherals (including mouse and keyboard). I've let it run with no user software running. I let it run with all non-Apple kexts removed. I've turned off all user launchd files. I did a three hour MemTest86 run. I've run hardware diagnostics. I booted into recovery mode, wiped the hard drive, reinstalled the OS and migrated my stuff from a CCC backup. Over the last three months I've spent hours and hours looking at this.

Why am I not willing to do the clean external boot drive? Because making the machine useful during the two week external boot period would be very time consuming. It just doesn't make sense, time-wise.

I looked at just one shell script that runs every morning. It uses ffmpeg. To install ffmpeg I need to install MacPorts and then ffmpeg. That same script sends email which means I'd have to install an smtp client or deal with the complexities of getting postfix running. That same script uses YouTubeUploader which I'd need to download as source and compile and install.

So, just to get that one script running would be very time consuming. A kernel panic takes about three minutes before the machine is ready to go again. And, most of the panics happen when I'm not even at the machine so they have very little effect on me. It's far easier to put up with the panics than it would be to create an entire new useful boot disk that I'd only use for a couple of weeks.

I'm not opposed to making the effort, but I am opposed to wasting the time.
 
I'm more asking if you've tried without involving your previous setup. If you're trying to isolate a problematic hardware failure, you need to try as different (clean) of a software environment as possible.
 
As I've explained, doing that would mean doing without this machine for at least ten days and probably two weeks. I'm not willing to take the time that would involve.

If you've got a way to do it without giving up the functionality of this machine and without requiring a big investment in time, I'm willing to try.
 
Buadhai said:
As I've explained, doing that would mean doing without this machine for at least ten days and probably two weeks. I'm not willing to take the time that would involve.

If you've got a way to do it without giving up the functionality of this machine and without requiring a big investment in time, I'm willing to try.
Click to expand...
i think you have answered your own question .... you are not going to solve a probable hardware issue without some take apart skills, beyond the external boot drive which you refuse to try .... so its new mac time.
 
macguru9999 said:
i think you have answered your own question .... you are not going to solve a probable hardware issue without some take apart skills, beyond the external boot drive which you refuse to try .... so its new mac time.
Click to expand...
I'm having trouble deciding what to buy. I bought my wife a fully equipped M2 MBA which she rejected and which I returned to Apple for a refund. I really like her M1 iMac, but think that I might wait a bit. Perhaps a M1 Mac mini? But then there's the display conundrum.

And, I haven't refused to try the external boot drive. I just don't think that I would actually learn much from it; at least not enough to justify the time involved.

At the moment I'm using my wife's M1 iMac to do some video editing and find that I keep having to add things (like MacPorts and a mail server). Perhaps in a few weeks it will be enough of a machine to allow me to devote the old iMac to an external drive.
 
Buadhai said:
I'm having trouble deciding what to buy. I bought my wife a fully equipped M2 MBA which she rejected and which I returned to Apple for a refund. I really like her M1 iMac, but think that I might wait a bit. Perhaps a M1 Mac mini? But then there's the display conundrum.

And, I haven't refused to try the external boot drive. I just don't think that I would actually learn much from it; at least not enough to justify the time involved.

At the moment I'm using my wife's M1 iMac to do some video editing and find that I keep having to add things (like MacPorts and a mail server). Perhaps in a few weeks it will be enough of a machine to allow me to devote the old iMac to an external drive.
Click to expand...
If you had an external ssd big enough to fit your system, you could carbon copy clone everything onto it and boot off that. Then you could run everything as now and see what happens. if its the internal drive chances are it would be dormant and not cause the problem... however i understand you may consider buying a big enough ssd to be a waste of money... fair enough although its a useful thing to have.
 
The spare T5 that I have is 1TB, so certainly large enough.

The T5 now has bootable Monterey on it. I can use Migration Assistance to move everything from a CCC clone of the data volume.

But, I thought the point of this exercise was to boot from a drive that had nothing extra installed and only a single virgin user?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back