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Is macOS Catalina Apple's Vista

  • YES

    Votes: 112 42.7%
  • NO

    Votes: 150 57.3%

  • Total voters
    262

kingtj

macrumors 68030
Oct 23, 2003
2,606
749
Brunswick, MD
Lots of good stuff already said here.... but I'd just like to add that I feel like Apple's challenge has become a weakened ability to dictate the direction the software developers need to go.

For a LONG time, Apple could pretty much call the shots on the whole thing. A new version of the OS could just rip out support for an entire portion of code (like the old "Carbon" framework), and all the developers went scrambling to do major code rewrites to keep up. The advantage was, Apple could essentially force everything in the ecosystem to be modern and more efficient. They were always just a small niche compared to Windows adoption rate and software selection, but the people who did code for Mac were a loyal bunch who would follow Apple's lead with those changes.

I feel like those days are largely over. With the dumping of 32-bit support Catalina did, it immediately rendered about 80% of the native OS X video games incompatible, and probably at least half of the software related to music production, recording and synth patch editing/programming incompatible. I imagine the same can be said for some of the other special interest applications out there too? It's a big "ask" to the very groups who make very slim profits offering Mac versions of their software products to begin with, to have them rewrite all that code for 64-bit compatibility. In many cases, it's just not going to happen -- and the products will just require you use an older Mac and OS X version to keep using them, or probably to move to the Windows platform where they'll still offer support.

Today's Apple doesn't really care, in my opinion. Not as long as a few big companies (mainly Microsoft and Adobe) keep coding for their machines. They probably give them some special help/favors to ensure that happens, too. The future Apple sees is one where OS X will run all the apps people built primarily for iOS, so that's your software library for it right there, plus a couple of "key" applications Apple makes themselves like FCP X and Logic Pro X.

It's sad, IMO, and will probably be the "straw the breaks the camel's back" here for me, to migrate back to Windows PCs after a long run being primarily a Mac user.
 

timidpimpin

Suspended
Nov 10, 2018
1,121
1,318
Cascadia
For the record... I ran Catalina (10.15.2) on an unsupported late 2009 mac mini for a couple days, and never had a single stability issue. I simply have a preference for High Sierra, so I went back. It's also still supported with security updates.
 
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throAU

macrumors G3
Feb 13, 2012
9,199
7,354
Perth, Western Australia
How can be hardware when itunes(music) app is bouncing and wont force quit but I can type in safari and check finder.. but I cant restart iMac only force because it get stucked.. and this is apple app

Run some hardware tests.

Random wierd behaviour (especially kernel panics) on your specific machine (when other machines are fine) is one of two things.

Either:
1. Your individual install is broken - dodgy third party hardware driver, corrupted file(s), etc.
2. Your hardware is faulty - memory errors, over-temperature due to cooling problems, disk problems, etc.

Running some proper hardware tests is less time consuming/destructive than wiping and reinstalling to start off with.

Just assuming "it isn't hardware!" and blaming Apple's release without testing is exactly how you don't solve the problem.
 
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Lihto

macrumors member
Jul 15, 2017
34
43
just did apple diagnostic, found no issue. Tried to reinstall vista, ups catalina and same thing.. Something is bothering him.. just gonna go and put that iMac in box, time to open new one and put mojave on that... until it is really time to upgrade.. now have to go old fashion way and transfer everything manually and install programs again :/ pre 2 xD
 
no def this is software problem.. iMac 27 i5 575. 2017

had lion on iMac 2009 27" QC... that mac work till 2017.. upgraded it with ssd,with friend's help remove the display :D that was a long time ago.. because of lion I told myself never to uprade till version 10.X.1 or 2.. upgraded this on 2 and that was mistake.. Funny thing is I bought iMac 2019 i9 580x 40gb of ram xD and that mac is in box 10 days unpacked xD worried if I time machine it that same problems will occure... maybe I should just do clean install on it to mojave and install apps manually... that's like going back on pc :/
When you "moved" to Catalina, did you start with Lion on that Mac ( iMac 27 i5 575. 2017)? If you did, and if you just did an upgrade "in place", you took PLENTY of risks, like 1) skipping 7 versions of the Mac OS, 2) arriving at a version that uses the APFS format, and 3) not bothering to check compatibility of third party software that you use. All of that is a recipe for disaster!
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just did apple diagnostic, found no issue. Tried to reinstall vista, ups catalina and same thing.. Something is bothering him.. just gonna go and put that iMac in box, time to open new one and put mojave on that... until it is really time to upgrade.. now have to go old fashion way and transfer everything manually and install programs again :/ pre 2 xD
What the heck does "Tried to reinstall vista, ups catalina and same thing."? Vista and Catalina at the same time?
 
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choreo

macrumors 6502a
Jan 10, 2008
910
357
Midland, TX
I saw today where AccountEdge announced dropping any future development due to Catalina. I have had several other announcements from some of my favorite long-time apps (like DragThing...). The way it is going, it may getting down to only Adobe and Apple apps in the future?
 

vinegarshots

macrumors 6502a
Sep 24, 2018
982
1,349
I saw today where AccountEdge announced dropping any future development due to Catalina. I have had several other announcements from some of my favorite long-time apps (like DragThing...). The way it is going, it may getting down to only Adobe and Apple apps in the future?

"In the end, AccountEdge’s 30-year-old codebase proved too outdated to establish compatibility with Apple’s newest operating system. "

If you're a software company that can't update 30 year old codebase, then you're a software company that isn't planning very well for the future. At least they have a cloud offering, I guess ?

Edit: And DragThing was released in 1995. Let's be honest, if we want tech to move forward, all these legacy apps are going to break at some point.
 

Lihto

macrumors member
Jul 15, 2017
34
43
When you "moved" to Catalina, did you start with Lion on that Mac ( iMac 27 i5 575. 2017)? If you did, and if you just did an upgrade "in place", you took PLENTY of risks, like 1) skipping 7 versions of the Mac OS, 2) arriving at a version that uses the APFS format, and 3) not bothering to check compatibility of third party software that you use. All of that is a recipe for disaster!
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What the heck does "Tried to reinstall vista, ups catalina and same thing."? Vista and Ctalina at the same time?
OMG just laugh so hard on this xD
why would I put lion on 2017 iMac xD priceless xD

What the heck does "Tried to reinstall vista, ups catalina and same thing."? Vista and Ctalina at the same time?
look at tread title xD you are joking right? XD
 
OMG just laugh so hard on this xD
why would I put lion on 2017 iMac xD priceless xD
Your posts are definitely lacking in necessary information. For your "move" to Catalina, which machine did you do it on, what OS was there already, and did you just do an upgrade in place?

look at tread title xD you are joking right? XD
Again I repeat "Your posts are definitely lacking in necessary information.", and in fact some of your statements are confusing! First, what the heck is xD? Secondly, I repeat what I said above. What the heck does "Tried to reinstall vista, ups catalina and same thing."? Vista and Catalina at the same time?

Answer these questions definitively, accurately, and maturely.
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Not being able to update an app to 64bit in 13 years speak more about the developer than Apple deprecations choices.
Agree 100%!
 

throAU

macrumors G3
Feb 13, 2012
9,199
7,354
Perth, Western Australia
If you're a software company that can't update 30 year old codebase, then you're a software company that isn't planning very well for the future. At least they have a cloud offering, I guess


This.

I'd also argue that they have a limited amount of competence in their software maintenance team (either lack of staff numbers - management didn't allocate enough staff or funding to do this, or lack of competence across the team - either way, same result).

Apple announced the move to 64 bit 10+ years ago at this point.

If you haven't been making strides (over the past decade) to ensure your software will run without 32 bit support at this point, it is essentially unmaintained. This isn't a change that Apple "just sprung on everybody" suddenly with Catalina. It has been coming for over a decade.

Sure, a lot of games may not have bothered, but games aren't mission critical and macOS is lucky it got the game port(s) at all to be honest - the amount of macOS hardware out there actually capable of gaming well is a vanishingly small percentage of the user-base.
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look at tread title xD you are joking right? XD

The "thread" title has nothing to do with your post. it is a question (which is being discussed) - regarding whether or not catalina is Apple's "Vista".

Even VISTA (which i ran back in the day) did not have the same problems you are having with your Mac on Catalina, and neither the thread title, nor your posts sufficiently explain what you've done to your mac to arrive at the problems you have.
 
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Project Alice

macrumors 68020
Jul 13, 2008
2,083
2,166
Post Falls, ID
To be fair, Windows users went through exactly the same thing when they switched from 32 to 64 bits only, so i dunno why we Apple users are thinking this is disaster...
Windows never switched from 32bit to 64bit only. Windows 10 still has a 32bit version that runs on 32bit CPUs. It's just as 32bit as Windows 2000 is.
64bit versions of Windows however do not have support for 16bit apps. This for some reason caused a problem for a few people that were still using DOS programs, and certain 32bit programs had 16bit installers (I've found some old games that fall under that category). Even when Vista was released, it was not the first 64bit version of Windows. In fact, many OEM PCs that shipped with Vista actually shipped with the 32bit version, despite having 64bit capable CPUs.

Personally, I never had any problems with Vista. Most actual problems were driver related, the other problems were user error. I had zero issues with Vista back in the day on my Pentium 3. Yes, I said Pentium III.
 
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