Is Microsoft going to kill Design?

[Unspeaked]

I'm not implying that Microsoft's programs will kill Adobe's programs. What I'm saying is with everybody having access to these supposed "Designer" programs, that you'll see more people saying "I'm a designer" the way many do with Adobe's programs already, thus lowering the value of true designers. I know that among designers we'll be able to tell the difference, but to everyone else I feel will not put much stock into it, as they'll think everyone and their dog can do it.

I don't know, I still don't see your point.

The percentage of people who think they're "designers" is already at a saturation point.

Heck, if a kid can pimp out his MySpace page, he calls himself a web designer.

So I don't see who's left that would even WANT to label themselves designers that isn't using some really basic tool already.

That being said, I think a sorry thing in the industry is people are being hired as designers based more on their computer skills and less on their design skills.

To me, that's like hiring a doctor because he can handle a scalpel well, but doesn't really know much about internal medicine.

You need a balance of BOTH, no any one skill.

 

[Unspeaked]

Also, this thread is full to the brim with hypocrisy.

One the one hand, the majority of posters are saying "a designer's skills are found in his soul, his gentle sense of color, his ability to see contrast in the world around him and translate it in a beautiful artistic dance to paper."*

They then go on to say, "a true designer creates in his mind. He doesn't need Adobe Photoshop or Quark XPress, they are just tools used to carve out his mental image."*

But then, everyone's saying, "if I saw Microsoft on someone's resume, I would laugh at them, tell them they don't know jack about design, and hire the guy sitting next to them who knows InDesign."*

Um, whatever happened to design being a mental skill and the computer just being a tool??


* - Not direct quotes.

 

[Sdashiki]

if your portfolio sucks, you wont get hired.

people here have a feeling, as I do myself, that you wont have a good portfolio if all you know is M$ programs.


I believe what the masses are saying, is that design skills are learned and put to use. M$ barely understands the industry, so their programs dont teach much.

but w/e, lets see what they put out, and THEN bash it.

 

[2ndPath]

Didn't Microsoft already do many of these things you are expecting, when they release a desing program? Many people nowadays abuse word or powerpoint exactly for this purpose. And often the "designs", which come out don't even test the limitations of these MS programs, but rather reflect the design skills of the people who use them (or a combination of both).

 

[dpaanlka]

But then, everyone's saying, "if I saw Microsoft on someone's resume, I would laugh at them, tell them they don't know jack about design, and hire the guy sitting next to them who knows InDesign."

Well, all one has to do is look at Publisher and FrontPage, and how highly regarded people aren't that claim proficiency with these apps.

 

[Sdashiki]

I had a colleague hand me a file and say, "Hey ive been designing this poster for a long time, could you help me out"

its a friggen POWERPOINT file.

OMFG, a 48"x36" poster, done in Powerpoint.


I had to just use it as a reference and do the whole thing over in InDesign.

 

[dpaanlka]

48"x36" poster, done in Powerpoint.

Wayyyy to be...

 

[apfhex]

Um, whatever happened to design being a mental skill and the computer just being a tool??

It's harder to paint with a screwdriver.

Good design comes from the persons own creativity and understanding/use of design principles plus an ability to make good use of the proper tools.

 

[ATD]

Um, whatever happened to design being a mental skill and the computer just being a tool??

No, not being able to tell the difference between a good set of tools and crappy ones speaks volumes about a persons skills.

 

[shecky]

I had to just use it as a reference and do the whole thing over in InDesign.

ironically, InDesign is not the right program for making posters either. Illustrator is.

 

[kitki83]

I had a colleague hand me a file and say, "Hey ive been designing this poster for a long time, could you help me out"

its a friggen POWERPOINT file.

OMFG, a 48"x36" poster, done in Powerpoint.


I had to just use it as a reference and do the whole thing over in InDesign.

OMG my company does all their artwork in Powerpoint T_T.
I mean before i got hired they had this Buddha-hippy-blunt person design the stuff. >< omg she used cursive font for program highlights and omg cold flahses happening >< Omg it was horror.....the horror.......the horror..........

 

[Blue Velvet]

ironically, InDesign is not the right program for making posters either. Illustrator is.

Over-prescriptive nonsense. If I want to do nice type easily, I'll composite everything in InDesign or Quark from a variety of sources; EPSs, TIFFs, whatever...

Illustrator is not the ideal tool for body copy. It's type handling and H&J implementation is too awkward.

 

[shecky]

Illustrator is not the ideal tool for body copy. It's type handling and H&J implementation is too awkward.

you are right. of course, its a good thing that posters do not have "body copy"

i pretty sure that i know many, many more poster designers, internationally and domestically than you do (tho i am not positive of this). I have worked with them, for them, and near them. none of them that i have met use indesign. All of them use illustrator or do it by hand. I can only go by my own experience and those i have seen do it better than i can.

even with your 25+ years of experience it is possible you do not know everything. don't ever forget that.

 

[Blue Velvet]

you are right. of course, its a good thing that posters do not have "body copy"

Many of them do. My point is that there is no 'right' program for poster design... many posters do have boiler-plate. Who wants to set that in Illustrator?

 

[shecky]

My point is that there is no 'right' program for poster design.

that is your opinion which i certainly respect. i disagree, and that is my opinion. my initial comment was actually meant to be a bit more ironic than definitive, i will need to work on a smiley that means "ironic."

next time i would greatly appreciate you just disagreeing with me as opposed to telling me one of my comments is "nonsense," when it most certainly is not.

thanks

(and i did not intend to hijack this thread with this stuff. back to your regularly scheduled microsoft-bashing.)

 

[ATD]

Many of them do. My point is that there is no 'right' program for poster design... many posters do have boiler-plate. Who wants to set that in Illustrator?

You are right, there is no set program. But it may surprise some that with movie posters the artwork is done in Photoshop and all the type is done in Illustrator then it's all put together in Quark or InDesign. The reason the type is done in Illustrator is a legal reason. There is a legal contractual relationship between the size of billing block and the size of the logo. If the billing block drops below the contractual relationship size it will trigger a lawsuit. Thats why you see billing blocks in those insanely condensed faces, the cap height needs to be high to get the logo up in size. Because it's done as one unit in Illustrator (billing + logo) it leaves little chance of resizing the elements wrong in Quark.

 

[Blue Velvet]

...the artwork is done in Photoshop and all the type is done in Illustrator then it's all put together in Quark.

Interesting. I'm not in the habit of doing movie posters, but there you go... You use a combination of tools (usually none of them Microsoft products) to do the job. I suspect many who use Illustrator exclusively are set in their ways but there are many ways to skin a cat, as it were...

 

[ATD]

Interesting. I'm not in the habit of doing movie posters, but there you go... You use a combination of tools (usually none of them Microsoft products) to do the job. I suspect many who use Illustrator exclusively are set in their ways but there are many ways to skin a cat, as it were...

Illustrator is a painful way to do type but it's better than a lawsuit.

 

[dogbone]

@ATD

"But it may surprise some that with movie posters...


That is interesting info, I always wondered about those supercondensed fonts

It appears that ms has vector and bitmapped ability but then Canvas has been doing that for years. So I don't see what ms has to offer, it's not a company known for its deep understanding of the needs of designers. In fact the interface of it's product already appears risibly kludgy.

 

[faustfire]

i pretty sure that i know many, many more poster designers, internationally and domestically than you do

Wow, ultra smug.

 

[ATD]

Sorry to let this thread drift so far off point but I would like to add that doing these billings in Illustrator saves a lot of time for the legal departments as well. They simply sign off on a few master billings rather than pouring over each and ever Quark poster/ad which number in the 100s. If it was not for this legal issue, I for one would not choose Illustrator to do type in and I do lots of posters.

 

[shecky]

Wow, ultra smug.

sorry if it came off that way, i have just had a lot of opportunities to meet and interact with far more than the average allotment of great designers.

 

[shecky]

I for one would not choose Illustrator to do type in and I do lots of posters.

and i have found that the posters i have done (and seen done by the aforementioned designers) use fairly small amounts of "body" text (to my point of saying posters do not have "body" text; they have blocks of text in which things like hyphenation are not done. of course, there are exceptions to everything.); much more often its a block or two of type, with type acting much more as a formal element rather than purely a linguistic one. manipulating type like this, i + those i have watched much prefer illustrator. i think of it less as "setting" type than working with type + image harmoniously. i am not doing movie posters as such, so obviously we have different experiences.

i did not know about the legal issues either; it never ceases to amaze me how much i don't know about the world of design and design business.

again, getting back on topic, the program is a hell of a lot less important than we are making it out to be here. its about all the other other stuff

 

[ATD]

acting much more as a formal element rather than purely a linguistic one.

In that kind of case I do prefer Illustrator.

i did not know about the legal issues either; it never ceases to amaze me how much i don't know about the world of design and design business.

BTW, I just remembered an old story. Yes I'm going way way off track here, hope you all don't mind. There was a Jerry Lewis and Dean Martin movie many years ago that had a insane contact written. It stated that neither one could be billed over the other referring to the names at the top of the poster. Neither name could be in front or top of the other. Off hand that would suggest that the 2 names would have to print on top of each other. The designer solved the problem by creating an X out of the 2 names. These legal contacts can get very long and insane sometimes.

 

[dogbone]

The designer solved the problem by creating an X out of the 2 names.

So what happened where the names crossed at the X midpoint?