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Is Microsoft going to kill Design?
- Thread starter whattheduece
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iMeowbot said:
LOL Thanks, I was almost right.
BTW there is another interesting legal oddity here. Most movie posters have the actors names on top, then the logo followed by a billing in which the actors names and the movie title are repeated. I guess the designer wanted to avoid crossing the names a 2nd time in the billing so this lobby card is just one big billing. Don't you just love the way lawyers can dictate design.
It sure looks that way. Here's a variation on that one that would have had plenty of room for a less wacky arrangement, but the same trick was used. It comes off looking like a mixed metaphor for trains or something :/ATD said:
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Back to the Microsoft thing, the "Graphic Designer" module of MS Expression is very much the old Creature House product with even more indecipherable icons tacked on. I don't think it will be a threat to anyone but the poor souls who try to figure out the interface. It can do some interesting things, but it's not something Bob from Accounttemps will figure out over lunch.
This whole Illustrator vs. InDesign argument sort of exemplifies my earlier statement that someone could make something in Stickies and still be worthy of job consideration if they final output was presentable and they showed enough design intuition.
That poster argument became something like this:
"Anyone who designs posters with a Microsoft product is a moron! Everyone knows you need to use InDesign for that stuff..."
"Who are you calling a moron, moron? InDesign is almost as bad as Microsoft's offerings when it comes to posters! You need Illustrator..."
The point being that neither is 100% correct.
Sure, it may take much longer to do certain things in Publisher than Illustrator or the like, but my point has been if some kid applies for a design job and hasn't had the money (or even product knowledge) to pick up Adobe CS, that doesn't discount his talent nor his ability to learn these products.
Heck, if anything, I'd be IMPRESSED he could design something elegant in Publisher; if he can do that with a tool as awkward as it, imagine what he'd do with something more robust!
That poster argument became something like this:
"Anyone who designs posters with a Microsoft product is a moron! Everyone knows you need to use InDesign for that stuff..."
"Who are you calling a moron, moron? InDesign is almost as bad as Microsoft's offerings when it comes to posters! You need Illustrator..."
The point being that neither is 100% correct.
Sure, it may take much longer to do certain things in Publisher than Illustrator or the like, but my point has been if some kid applies for a design job and hasn't had the money (or even product knowledge) to pick up Adobe CS, that doesn't discount his talent nor his ability to learn these products.
Heck, if anything, I'd be IMPRESSED he could design something elegant in Publisher; if he can do that with a tool as awkward as it, imagine what he'd do with something more robust!
Ms
Not worried about that because people still use word art to do stuff and it has yet to look professional. Google released sketchup and I haven't become an architect. It's still being trained to do the job that matters imho.
Not worried about that because people still use word art to do stuff and it has yet to look professional. Google released sketchup and I haven't become an architect. It's still being trained to do the job that matters imho.
Im no graphical designer, but it seems to me that the only thing on the horizon that is going to compete with Adobe is the open source stuff like GIMP and Inkscape. That stuff is rough around the edges at the minute but you only need to look at Open Office to see that in the future these design apps should match 95% of what you can do with Adobe, but without any costs what so ever. Perhaps a better example is the open source 3D app Blender, which as I understand it is fast approaching being a competitor to the likes of Maya.
chaosbunny, why not look up some research that shows your customers the demonstrated value of good design? That way, you can show them that there are good scientific and financial reasons to pay a designer to present your message.
Start with the books of Edward Tufte. You'll be able to appeal to their wallet, showing them how a finely crafted, intelligently designed ad will make them more money, by reaching more cutomers' attentions, than a poorly designed ad.
Example: you'll be able to point to research proving that any use of fonts that don't contrast with the background makes them harder to read, hence more often ignored by viewers. So their red Times Roman font over a photo of a lush green forest will actually *cost them money* by turning away viewers, whereas your better designed image would ensure that the message of their text reaches the viewers' attention -- the whole point of imagery in business, right?
Start with the books of Edward Tufte. You'll be able to appeal to their wallet, showing them how a finely crafted, intelligently designed ad will make them more money, by reaching more cutomers' attentions, than a poorly designed ad.
Example: you'll be able to point to research proving that any use of fonts that don't contrast with the background makes them harder to read, hence more often ignored by viewers. So their red Times Roman font over a photo of a lush green forest will actually *cost them money* by turning away viewers, whereas your better designed image would ensure that the message of their text reaches the viewers' attention -- the whole point of imagery in business, right?
belovedmonster said:
Hardly. If you are just looking at the marketing of features when it comes to many 3D apps you will see they all try to touch on the same hot buzz words. From that point of view they look a lot the same. Mayas internal structure is far different than any 3D app on the market. When you start looking at it's interconnectivity, workflow, expandability (not 3rd party products but within the program itself), it's advanced features and it's integration with an army of 3rd party products you will see a program vastly outdistances any app.
After that, try these other apps that claim all these great features and see how well they actually do what they claim. Then try it in Maya. The difference is night and day.
BTW Maya is open source in that it's code is complete exposed while you are working in the program. The app allows anyone to customize it at will. You can highlight the code in a window and drag it to another part of the program. It creates a button that an instant tool/plugin. You can then go back and edit the code any way you wish. You can create a whole sub program if you wish. This is why the movie studios love Maya, just about any high end effect they can think of can be rewritten into the program. They work closely with the techs at Maya to extend the program, the trade off for the help from the Maya techs is the advanced effects/features that they develop will be in later versions of Maya. Then everyone else can copy them.
iGav said:
Every major film has these contracts, independent films are a lot less tied to them. It extends far beyond just the logo and billing relationship. For example actors have equal likeness clauses that state if one actor is shown in an ad the other must be the same size etc. There are sometimes even equal likeness clauses between CG characters. I would not be the lease bit surprised to hear that Yoda had a team of lawyers working for him. Sometimes it will dictate the design of an ad by saying what order/relationship the actors must appear in. It seems like there is always some contract issue we have to be careful with. When you mix big money with big egos you get lots of messy politics.
BTW, after the poster passes the contract stipulations it then has to pass the ratings board. Even if a film is geared to adults it has to be acceptable the larger public meaning children. I have never broken a contract stipulation but I have been involved with a few projects that didn't pass the ratings board on the first round.
iMeowbot said:
Any enterprising actors could have changes their names to Tony Lewis and Jerry Curtis and received free advertising.
Let me ask you this: Did the pencil kill art?
The pencil made drawing available to the masses, and art is one of those stupid philosophical things that people think can apply to everything from baby puke to the Mona Lisa. Art is still going strong and real artists are still recognized over Bobby the 5 year old that can stay inside the lines. Singing is another one, just look at American Idol, theres a lot of people out there who consider themselves good singers but the public still isnt fooled.
Microsoft isnt going to kill design, it sounds kind of like a pompous question honestly. Geocities and Angelfire have probably contributed more to designer delinquency than Microsoft ever could (but theyve also created a number of great designers that realized their hidden talent through mainstream crap like that). Powerpoint is a rather ridiculous thing in office professions, some of the stuff Ive seen makes me cringe as a designer.
The average person that isnt a complete self deluded moron will still understand the difference between a professional designer and a self proclaimed designer. When someone asks you what you do for a living youll beable to say "graphic design" while the guy using the Microsoft program wont, that will always say something.
Let people have their hobbys and think they are something they arent. It will always happen with every professional occupation on the planet. Its best to worry about your abilities in the professional world and ignore the rest.
The pencil made drawing available to the masses, and art is one of those stupid philosophical things that people think can apply to everything from baby puke to the Mona Lisa. Art is still going strong and real artists are still recognized over Bobby the 5 year old that can stay inside the lines. Singing is another one, just look at American Idol, theres a lot of people out there who consider themselves good singers but the public still isnt fooled.
Microsoft isnt going to kill design, it sounds kind of like a pompous question honestly. Geocities and Angelfire have probably contributed more to designer delinquency than Microsoft ever could (but theyve also created a number of great designers that realized their hidden talent through mainstream crap like that). Powerpoint is a rather ridiculous thing in office professions, some of the stuff Ive seen makes me cringe as a designer.
The average person that isnt a complete self deluded moron will still understand the difference between a professional designer and a self proclaimed designer. When someone asks you what you do for a living youll beable to say "graphic design" while the guy using the Microsoft program wont, that will always say something.
Let people have their hobbys and think they are something they arent. It will always happen with every professional occupation on the planet. Its best to worry about your abilities in the professional world and ignore the rest.