is Steve turning the mac into a PC

[dmetzcher]

That "absolute rubbish" comment was a waste of everyone's time.

Absolute rubbish

I love when people speak that way to others on a forum. If you had nothing to say, why sound off with nothing but two words that make "absolutely" no point. Make a point. Why is it "rubbish"?

That comment is abosulte rubbish. Perhaps for you, one button is more efficient, but for me it is not. As a PC user, switching to a one-button mouse, for the short time that I didn't have a two-button my Mac, was full of wasted seconds. How is using two devices, instead of one, more efficient, anyway? Why would I want to use both hands to control something, if I could quickly do it with one. This is to say nothing about the speed of motor functions when two hands are involved as opposed to one. You may not agree with this comment, but, see, I made a point, even if you don't like my point. I didn't just call your comment trash and sign off.

So, for you, a one-button mouse may be more efficient (though you'd really have to give two-buttons a try first to know for sure, wouldn't you say?), but for others, it's not. As such, it might be "rubbish" for you, but it is certainly not "absolute", because for others it is more efficient. My advice to someone, rather than simply blowing off the idea of a two-button mouse, would be to try them both out and see which works better. For me, it's laughable that anyone would find two-buttons hard to use (an experienced computer user, not someone who just bought one, at least). This isn't rocket science, it's just a mouse, and having more features less than a half inch away is simply easier for me.

This is for everyone else, and not just the person quoted above...
I've always been curious...
Do people who like one-button mice over the two-button variety, actually find two-buttons confusing? I mean this to be said in a completely serious tone. There is nothing more than that to my question. I mean, when you go to click the button, do you have to think about whether it needs to be the left or right button? Does that slow you down? I'm actually really curious about this. For a new user, I can see this being the case, for a little while, but it can't be much more difficult than remembering that they have to push a key on the keyboard (a keyboard full of different keys) to get a contextual menu.

I read this, and it was interesting. I like the marketing explanation for the one-button mouse about half way through:
http://www.gearlive.com/index.php/news/article/why_apple_makes_a_one_buttoned_mouse_01280820/

 

[sethypoo]

Without dragging this entirely off-topic, I'd like to see what evidence you have for such a statement.

Calling me out, huh?

Well, for starters, a single button mouse cannot right click. We single-button users have to reach over to our keyboards, hold down control, then click where we want the right click menu to appear. With a two button mouse, there's no extra hand movement, just a flick of your wrist over to your desired right click location.

Next, most two button mice these days have a scroll wheel designed into them. If you can't understand how nice a scroll wheel is to have, you clearly don't understand mouse design.

I think that the two button mouse is an evolution of the mouse Apple first introduced. Things change bluevelvet, technology gets better, yada yada, why not have two buttons?

 

[sethypoo]

.....snip.....

Amen to that. Two button mice will always be superior to a one button mouse. I love Apple and all their products, but two button's are better than one.

 

[sethypoo]

Absolute rubbish

Cough, ok seriously, this is my last post for at least 15 minutes on this thread.....

But Mr. BakedBeans, I'd like to see what evidence you have to support such a statement.

 

[vniow]

This thread is making my brain hurt.

 

[Sun Baked]

This thread is making my brain hurt.

That's too bad we can't make some people's bodies hurt for bringing up the topic again and again.

But the cyberbeatings aren't quite as worthwhile as breaking their fingers to keep them off the keyboard.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

This discussion reminds me of a religious debate I had with family members on Thanksgiving....

 

[MacAficionado]

A Mac is a PC

But, a PC is not a Mac.

 

[maya]

Well it all depends on:

1. One-Button or Multi-Button Mouse depends on preference and if the app requires it like LightWave 3D, Maya 3D, FCP, etc...

2. Intel or PPC processors will mean little to most consumers, I see people buy what is *cheap* and as long as it will be able to surf, email, text, etc...Without the requirement to running professional apps. Just basic things. Is one processor type better than the other, sure both have they advantages and disadvantages and at present the spotlight is on x86, sad but true PPC requires more investment and it is not getting as much as it would like.

3. OS is what matters in the end, since that is the end-users experience and what a user or a multitude of users want the company developing the OS should consider in-order to keep its user base strong and happy.

4. Hardware Case, design also plays a big factor. Some people will not rest with a generic PC case they want that Apple on the case with its trademark designs that win a lot of awards and is an example for the industry to follow. Designer and Status = Appeal.

And there you have it, at first I said to myself I believe the Mac is slowly becoming into a Windows box with features being implemented left, right and center and then I also looked at how Microsoft is taking features from all other OSes out there, so why not if it benefits the end-user(s).

 

[solvs]

This thread is making my brain hurt.

Yeah, me too. I don't know why I clicked on it. I should have known better. Glutton for punishment I guess.

 

[LethalWolfe]

i mean two button mouses, intel processors, i was happy being different, i don't like being the same as everyone else.

Simple. Don't buy a Mac w/an Intel chip. And don't buy a two button mouse.

Given the choice of moving to x86 or Apple crumbling and eventually closing up shop I'd much rather move to x86.

Actively trying NOT to be like everyone else is as bad as actively trying TO be like everyone else, IMO. Be yourself. Why worry so much about what other people are or are not doing?


Lethal

 

[yg17]

Moving to x86 is not going to mean that Macs will be like every other x86 machine.

Thats like saying because a Chevy Aveo comes with Michelin tires, and a Ferrari Enzo comes with Michelin tires, that the 2 cars are the same. Absolute BS.


And in that analogy about Macs and PCs, I think it's obviously which one is the crappy Aveo and which one is the Ferrari

 

[bousozoku]

Having a two-button mouse in Photoshop and various other graphics applications makes me more productive, especially on my Logitech keyboard.

I can access tool shortcuts and my scroll wheel with my left hand, while my right hand can stay on the trackball do the visual manipulation and use contextual menus. It's pretty much the same way I've been working since 1987 and works well for me.

As far as Macintosh becoming a run-of-the-mill computer, it's not happening. If you consider all the various technologies Apple has used that they didn't invent/develop, they could already have been considered at that point years ago. Even more so, with the ugly beige boxes, they looked bad and System 7 wasn't even looking as good as Windows 3.x with the theming available.

I like the way Macintosh and Mac OS X are going.

 

[sethypoo]

That's too bad we can't make some people's bodies hurt for bringing up the topic again and again.

But the cyberbeatings aren't quite as worthwhile as breaking their fingers to keep them off the keyboard.

Censorship, eh? Riight. Just because a topic comes up again and again does not make it a lesser topic. It's just something that is important to many people.

 

[solvs]

Censorship, eh? Riight.

Since it's a private forum, it's not protected under free speech. If the mods wanted, they could ban you for looking at them funny. Though I don't think they can break your fingers.

I don't think.

 

[Henri Gaudier]

Are Macs now PC's?

Basically, yes. With intel inside they are the best looking PC's with the best OS but inside what sets them apart? I would hazard very little. Literally everything is made at the same few factories in China and the far east. With this move the "feel" of difference will be almost entirely lost.

The only good thing that I hope will happen about this move to intel is surely Apple prices will have to drop by 40% in order to compete with other machines with the same specifification, processor etc only with XP?

So the Megahertz myth was true afterall.

 

[dmetzcher]

Basically, yes. With intel inside they are the best looking PC's with the best OS but inside what sets them apart? I would hazard very little. Literally everything is made at the same few factories in China and the far east. With this move the "feel" of difference will be almost entirely lost.

The only good thing that I hope will happen about this move to intel is surely Apple prices will have to drop by 40% in order to compete with other machines with the same specifification, processor etc only with XP?

So the Megahertz myth was true afterall.

I don't think Apple has to drop prices at all. Remember, you are paying for the great OS (at least I am). I don't care what it's running on, so long as each computer that I buy is significantly more powerful than the one before. So, Apple has to release an iBook that beats the pants off my current iBook. I don't think that Apple is competing with the other PC/Windows vendors on hardware so much as they are competing on the OS. The average user does not care what hardware is inside the box, so long as it performs for them the way that they need it to.

 

[Frank (Atlanta)]

I'm sure it's personal preference.

I wouldn't doubt that someone who's used to a one-button mouse wouldn't be able to match productivity with someone who's used to a two button mouse/scroll wheel.

However, force either person to use "the other way" and watch them struggle!

As somebody that uses MS Word & Excel a lot (on both Mac & PC platforms), the right-click is definitely a time-saver...

 

[Veritas&Equitas]

The only good thing that I hope will happen about this move to intel is surely Apple prices will have to drop by 40% in order to compete with other machines with the same specifification, processor etc only with XP?

L O L. I think the chances of Apple dropping the prices 40% of ANY of their products, ESPECIALLY the new line of Intel Powerbooks is one of the best jokes I've heard in in a long time. Seriously though, that took me for a good laugh, thank you.

 

[ijimk]

The two button mouse makes you more productive than a single button one,

For games 2 + button clearly dominate but as for productivity / design i dont think there is a clear benefit to having a multi button mouse.

 

[Mr Skills]

Absolute rubbish

Let me qualify that: a two-botton mouse lets you be fully productive while simultaneously picking your nose.

 

[decksnap]

I guarantee a person with a multi-button mouse could type a word, select it, control-click it, copy the text, use expose to see all windows, click a window, and control-click to paste the text in the new window MUCH faster than a person with a one-button mouse.

A one-button mouse user would say 'double-click, Apple+C, Apple+Tab, Apple+V.' Seems a lot faster than your method. Pay up.

 

[Macmadant]

But, a PC is not a Mac.

quite right no one calls a mac a pc even though it is one we all refer to it as the mac

 

[Seasought]

i mean two button mouses, intel processors, i was happy being different, i don't like being the same as everyone else.

There are always ways to be 'different' - case modding, colors, lights, stickers (yuck!)...

I get your point though. I tend to think Apple will always find a way to stand out from the crowd; they realize this is a huge factor in pushing their sales (aside from having quality products of course).

 

[Macmadant]

apple say powerpc will be continued to be supported, but that doesn't mean other companys will, would people like aspyr make and sell two versions of there, i don't think so, or what about adobe or macsoft totally random point btw