Blue Velvet said:
noone can be worse with a might Mouse right cuz you can just put it in 1 button mode
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noone can be worse with a might Mouse right cuz you can just put it in 1 button mode
Morn said:
Firstly, in apps like Photoshop & QuarkXpress, there are only a limited number of options available in a context menu at any given time -- and usually not the one you want -- and secondly, any competent operator who uses their Mac for their job uses keyboard shortcuts. Their left hand is always on the keyboard. You should take a close look at the way you use a Mac rather than saying 'it's not intuitive for me'.
Driving a car is not intuitive the first time you do it but after practice it becomes second nature.
Thirdly, you will find after years of sitting in front of a computer that your right hand, wrist, forearm and shoulder will thank you for taking some of the workload from your mouse hand.
Furthermore, there's a misunderstanding of the word 'intuitive'. Once you use a keyboard shortcut a few times, then muscle memory takes over and it's not a concious effort any more.
Frankly, what I hear here is utter laziness and heads-in-the-sand thinking. Learn a few keyboard shortcuts for your bread and butter app and once they're learnt, forget them.
I would never hire a designer that couldn't find their way around OSX and page-layout/graphics apps without the facility of using core keyboard commands... watching people mouse their way around apps, context menus or not, is just dispiriting and presents an obstacle to their productivity and creativity.
solvs said:
What point? I could've purchased mac hardware from yellow dog with only Linux on it. I could then have purchased OS/X from CompUSA and installed it on there later. It works and is not the least bit illegal.
BakedBeans said:
The problem with this though, is that the CTRL/Option button on a powerbook are only on the leftside, which makes it difficult for us lefties to keep our hand there, since its on the mouse.
Its discrimination I tell ya!
Well I'm right handed but use my left hand to operate the touchpad on my iBook most of the time, and I don't find it hard to reach the ctrl-button with my left little finger while I got the thumb on the button and index finger on the touchpad...Cloudgazer said:
It's much easuer to make problems out of all the little things than finding solutions, isn't it...?
Cloudgazer said:
Try moving your mouse to your right hand.
If you are using two hands to control your computer like some of us, it may be BETTER to be left-handed, as I am, because the mouse is really just 'point and click', while your left hand does a ton of different things.
Then I suppose it doesn't matter to you. What you need for work, and what someone else might need for work or play, may not be the same. What if he bought his machine for play, or just for general use? His point was valid. There is no keyboard shortcut for grabbing an image from a Web page without using either (1) a two-button mouse or (2) a one-button mouse and the keyboard.Blue Velvet said:
I look at it this way: Having two buttons allows you to ignore one, if you prefer, and use it only when you absolutely need it. I don't use my right mouse button as much as I use keyboard shortcuts, so I understand your earlier point, but I like having the extra button available to me when I need to do something that a keyboard shortcut cannot perform. If I can use just the keyboard, or just the mouse, I'm happy. If I have to use both, it's a bit limiting, for me at least.
Also, based on other posts in this thread, I find it amazing how this has become almost a fight between two camps. Who cares, really? It's like someone came in here and told everyone that Windows is better than the Mac OS, and everyone went on the defensive. I'm sure this discussion (especially with the tone taken by some) hasn't moved anyone in one way or the other, because it's mostly opinion, and that includes my own previous posts on the topic. It's opinion. If someone has a study that was done on the topic (yes, a scientific one, please - not one that you did with your little brother in the basement of your parents' house, one done by people wearing lab coats, or at least over the age of 15), please post it. I've looked around for one, because I'm interested in knowing which mouse works best for users, especially for users of certain applications.
Bottom line: Do whatever works for you.
The funny thing is that you just made our point. The whole reason that the right mouse button never made it into an Apple design before Mighty Mouse (barf) is because Apple felt that the second button would be too difficult for a new user to grasp. Keyboard shortcuts (no mouse) are certainly faster, however, and you're right on that.decksnap said:
For the most part I agree with you... and I'll say it again, my argument was with people who say working with one button mice is slower, not with those who say 'to each his own'.
To save an image off the web with one button, click on it and drag it wherever you want. Or click and drag, hit expose, or app-switcher, etc...
To save an image off the web with one button, click on it and drag it wherever you want. Or click and drag, hit expose, or app-switcher, etc...
So when I simply drag an image off a webpage to my desktop (or another Finder window) with a single mouse click-hold-and-drag I'm actually doing something impossible...???dmetzcher said:
That I can agree to...dmetzcher said:
Not at all. What's impossible, given your comments above, and your previous posts on this topic, is that you are able to make a comment on the subject without sounding like a smart-ass.Mitthrawnuruodo said:So when I simply drag an image off a webpage to my desktop (or another Finder window) with a single mouse click-hold-and-drag I'm actually doing something impossible...???
That I can agree to...
To your question (I'll pretend you were really confused, and not just mocking me)...
Many people may (I do) find dragging it to the Desktop a little limiting. I like right-clicking it, doing a "Save Image As", and selecting the location. I don't store things on my Desktop and move them later. It's more steps than needed, and a waste of time when I want to save an image (which is rarely) and get it stored in a location of my choice. If I can do this in one or two steps, that's the best thing for me.
Here is what you would be doing:
1. Command+Tab to the Finder, press Command+Shift+C to bring up a new Finder window, opened to the computer. (This would be the fastest way to get it done, as it's with the keyboard, and you have two quick key combos.)
2. Browse to your location (assuming it's not in the sidebar, which it might not be, unless you store every folder there, which is not possible). This might take at least a few seconds, if you are browsing a few levels down.
3. Switch back to your browser (Command+Tab).
4. Click the image, drag it to your pre-opened folder location. (Assumes that the browser and the Finder window are both viewable, but having to drag and do a Command+Tab to get back to the Finder window would be quick, so it doesn't really matter here and won't add any real time, just a keystroke or two.)
What I would do is:
1. Right-click the image and click "Save Image As".
2. Browse to the location (you are doing this above). This might take at least a few seconds, if you are browsing a few levels down, same as for you, above.
3. Click OK.
Slice it any way you want, but I did it all without the keyboard, and it took a shorter amount of time. If there is a faster way you would do it, please paste the steps here.
As I said before (I think in this thread, but definitely in others), some things are faster one way, some another. If I can use one of the two devices (keyboard or mouse), instead of both, I tend to find that faster, but there are certainly exceptions to this. In the case of the above scenario, which was first mentioned by someone else that you shot down, I believe that he/she was right, and that you were wrong. He/she just pointed out one example where the right-mouse button helps things move quickly. There are times when the keyboard and mouse combined is faster than one or the other alone, and I agree with this. I just think that limiting yourself to one or the other, or to both combined, is less than productive, for me, at least.
I've also said previously: Does that right mouse button get in your way? Why not have it? Frankly, if Apple had two buttons before anyone else, most people who claim that two-button mice suck would be singing a different tune. Maybe not you, but many others. Some people just can't get past the fact that Apple has now realized that people want two buttons. And by people, I mean new users more than existing users. I think giving users the choice is great.
Also, this isn't really personal, it's just a bunch of people in a simple debate about choice. Taking a snotty or arrogant or nasty or smart-ass tone isn't really necessary. When the Mouse Police show up and make you use two-buttons at gun point, I'll be right there defending your right to use just one, so lighten up a bit.
You're forgetting a couple of important details:
I very rarely surf wuth the browser at full screen thus always leaving a bit of the Finder showing, and even with full screen enabled, I can use Exposé to remove all windows (i.e. after I've clicked'n'grabbed the picture I can move the mouse to the designated screen corner), leaving the whole Desktop and all folders there to drop the image on.
And if I want to drag it somewhere special I just use Mac OS X' built-in spring loaded folders. Once I've held the image over the first folder (or disk icon) the whole machine is at my disposal...
What I answered to was your statement that "There is no keyboard shortcut for grabbing an image from a Web page without using either (1) a two-button mouse or (2) a one-button mouse and the keyboard." and I've just showed a couple of ways:
You can either use the drag'n'drop as described above, or you can in mant apps including Firefox but unfortunately not in Safari it seems - again with one mouse button - click and hold for a brief moment to get the same context menu to appear as you would with a right/ctrl-click.
And how do you know what I do. I've told you several different ways of doing the same thing, but I cannot remember saying anything about what I do, until now: I do whatever's most convenient when I want to do it. Sometimes drag'n'drop and sometimes I ctrl-click (when I use Safari I even use option-ctrl-click sometimes to get the Save As... option and not just Save to default downloads folder).
And, no, on the new mighty mouse the right button doesn't get in the way, but e.g. on a track pad the second button get very annoying very fast so on a laptop the one-button solution is far better IMO.
So I don't care if you want to but a 21 button Logitech mouse with bells and whistles. Just don't assume it's superiour to the one button mouse in simplicity, elegance and productivity.
I very rarely surf wuth the browser at full screen thus always leaving a bit of the Finder showing, and even with full screen enabled, I can use Exposé to remove all windows (i.e. after I've clicked'n'grabbed the picture I can move the mouse to the designated screen corner), leaving the whole Desktop and all folders there to drop the image on.
And if I want to drag it somewhere special I just use Mac OS X' built-in spring loaded folders. Once I've held the image over the first folder (or disk icon) the whole machine is at my disposal...
What I answered to was your statement that "There is no keyboard shortcut for grabbing an image from a Web page without using either (1) a two-button mouse or (2) a one-button mouse and the keyboard." and I've just showed a couple of ways:
You can either use the drag'n'drop as described above, or you can in mant apps including Firefox but unfortunately not in Safari it seems - again with one mouse button - click and hold for a brief moment to get the same context menu to appear as you would with a right/ctrl-click.
And how do you know what I do. I've told you several different ways of doing the same thing, but I cannot remember saying anything about what I do, until now: I do whatever's most convenient when I want to do it. Sometimes drag'n'drop and sometimes I ctrl-click (when I use Safari I even use option-ctrl-click sometimes to get the Save As... option and not just Save to default downloads folder).
And, no, on the new mighty mouse the right button doesn't get in the way, but e.g. on a track pad the second button get very annoying very fast so on a laptop the one-button solution is far better IMO.
So I don't care if you want to but a 21 button Logitech mouse with bells and whistles. Just don't assume it's superiour to the one button mouse in simplicity, elegance and productivity.
At first, I thought I'd prefer a two button mouse when I switched to Macs back in the day but I resisted the temptation of dirtying my desk with an ugly third party contraption (because they are all ugly). Within a few weeks I'd completely become comfortable with a single button and now I find two buttons useless.
The great thing about OSX is that there's usually more than one way to do anything. It has been cleverly written such that there are even multiple choices when it comes to the single button mouse. Sure, some people prefer having more buttons, that's fair enough, but surely these people are aware enough to notice that the alternative (the single button) is just as easy to use when it comes to manipulating the OS.
Puts the red wine down, heads back to the Snowman thread.
The great thing about OSX is that there's usually more than one way to do anything. It has been cleverly written such that there are even multiple choices when it comes to the single button mouse. Sure, some people prefer having more buttons, that's fair enough, but surely these people are aware enough to notice that the alternative (the single button) is just as easy to use when it comes to manipulating the OS.
Puts the red wine down, heads back to the Snowman thread.
What was the debate?Lord Blackadder said:This discussion reminds me of a religious debate I had with family members on Thanksgiving....
This is a thread of people for whom a Mac is the only thing comprising their individuality. Suck it up, some of us use our computers.
aristobrat said:
I've always thought that the problem with the 2-button mouse is that once the programmers start to gear the applications to use that 2nd button it immediately becomes a liability. My experience with Windows is that different apps have different things available when you right-click, and some things that are only available if you right-click...it's confusing.
I wouldn't mind a scroll wheel, though...I think they're kind of handy.
Two-button mice are more productive since they save you trips up to the menubar, scrollbars, and if you have a remotely advanced one, even the keyboard. End of argument.
ortuno2k said:I'd really HATE
What makes Macs unique is the OS. How many PC users wish they could build their PCs and use OS X?
I hope Mr. Jobs keeps OS X on Macs. Period.
My friend has osx on his ibm laptop. He learned how to do this from the people at hak5.org. They even show a video how to do it using knoppix.
Apple offering Mac OS X for PCs would be great, the OS is really the single most worthwhile thing Apple makes, I couldn't care less whether my hardware is shiny or not if I can chose any computer in the world. However, it would take them years to support every single component in every single computer...
MayaBlue Velvet said:
(actually, you need a 3-button mouse to work effectively in Maya)
How silly would it be for Apple to ship a workstation class Mac Pro with a single button mouse, if apps like Maya require, at a minimum, a 3-button mouse to even operate? Not all of us live in the desktop publishing world.
The loss of revenue on Apple's part if they started selling Mac OS X for PC would be massive. To make up for a loss of half their hardware sales (1.5% market share) Mac OS X for PCs would need to capture at least 15% additional market share (and that would be to break even with their current profitability).Mr. Mister said:
If Mac OS X is at all important to you, then Apple hardware should be important to you (even if you are like me and haven't bought a "new" Mac from Apple since 2000). The hardware sales at Apple are what pays for Mac OS X.
We've already seen what happens if a company loses their hardware... after NeXT shutdown hardware production, the OS proved to be a burden. Had Apple not bought NeXT, NeXT was planning on ending development of OPENSTEP altogether. It just wasn't worth it for them in that business model.
Knowing this, even though I think people who buy a new Mac just because Apple released a new Mac are at least a little nuts... I also know that the revenue that those people make for Apple keeps Mac OS X alive and well.
I run Mac OS X on cheep PCs today... of course the cheep PCs I use are used Macs, but the effect is pretty much the same. I get my advanced OS on low priced hardware.
If you care about the future of Mac OS X... you should start caring about that shiny hardware Apple ships. Because even if you never buy any of it while it is shiny and new, the people who do are the ones who are funding Mac OS X's future.