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theorist9

macrumors 68040
May 28, 2015
3,880
3,060
Apart from the ram ,wrre you comfortable ? I mean ,a 5 years old chip may not always be nice to use ,even if u had maxed it out with 32gb of ram

So ,today ,you’d get 64gb ,since 32 is what u currently need ?

Man I rly don’t know what to get , 14 or 16 , 16gb or 32gb ,apple care or not , 512 or 1tb (fairly certain I don’t want 1tb ,at least I know that)
Well, after 5 years the chip also needed to be upgraded for my purposes (I'm now using a 2019 i9 iMac), but I was speaking specifically about the RAM.

It's hard for me to judge your needs. I think getting 32 GB now for heavy office work would be like getting 16 GB in 2015. Plenty for now, but it might start to feel constrained in 5 years. So if you're planning to replace your machine in 5 years, I'd guess it would be OK. But that's for how I use my machine for office work. Given that you're plenty comfortable with 16 GB now, then you might not feel cramped with that until 5 years passes, at which point you'll be getting a new machine anyways. I just don't know. You could always use the $400 you save now (by getting 16 GB instead of 32 GB) to help you upgrade sooner than you planned in case you run into trouble.

My own needs are different, since I do scientific calculations that can demand a lot of RAM (I have 128 GB now).

I would strongly recommend AppleCare.
 
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Love-hate 🍏 relationship

macrumors 68040
Sep 19, 2021
3,057
3,235
Well, after 5 years the chip also needed to be upgraded for my purposes (I'm now using a 2019 i9 iMac), but I was speaking specifically about the RAM.

It's hard for me to judge your needs. I think getting 32 GB now for heavy office work would be like getting 16 GB in 2015. Plenty for now, but it might start to feel constrained in 5 years. So if you're planning to replace your machine in 5 years, I'd guess it would be OK. But that's for how I use my machine for office work. Given that you're plenty comfortable with 16 GB now, then you might not feel cramped with that until 5 years passes, at which point you'll be getting a new machine anyways. I just don't know. You could always use the $400 you save now (by getting 16 GB instead of 32 GB) to help you upgrade sooner than you planned in case you run into trouble.

My own needs are different, since I do scientific calculations that can demand a lot of RAM (I have 128 GB now).

I would strongly recommend AppleCare.
oh lol ,i was actually debating between 16 vs 32 ,not 64 !

hmmm the reason why i plan on keeping it longer is because of the inevitable price hike the next mbp are going to get ,which will probably be close to 400,price of 32gb of ram (i expect the mbp 16 m2 to start at 3149 euros )

oh wow i see. guess u can't do with a laptop then
 

Boil

macrumors 68040
Oct 23, 2018
3,477
3,173
Stargate Command
eh 256gb is fine imo

16gb is fine for most people too (no need for 24gb)

monthly apple care+ is more expensive and doesnt make much sense

512GB SSD to avoid the low speed issue seen in the 256GB SSD M2 MacBook Air...?

Max RAM to get the longest lifespan out of the unit, but I can see an intermediate amount being sufficient for those with less demanding workloads...?

Monthly AppleCare+ to ensure coverage as long as unit is in service, because of the whole everything integrated/soldered, cheap insurance against an expensive repair...?
 

Love-hate 🍏 relationship

macrumors 68040
Sep 19, 2021
3,057
3,235
512GB SSD to avoid the low speed issue seen in the 256GB SSD M2 MacBook Air...?

Max RAM to get the longest lifespan out of the unit, but I can see an intermediate amount being sufficient for those with less demanding workloads...?

Monthly AppleCare+ to ensure coverage as long as unit is in service, because of the whole everything integrated/soldered, cheap insurance against an expensive repair...?
Yeah that’s unfortunate but at least it’s not true for the m1( maybe new mba m1 also have that issue tho)

If you’re not aware ,you can get apple care for 3 years ,which is cheaper ,then ,once you’re done with it ,just call apple and have them refund you thre remaining years
 

Miat

macrumors 6502a
Jul 13, 2012
861
814
I agree that future proofing can be a trap. But in the soldered-in era the situation is different with RAM.

Extra storage is easy enough to add externally, even if it is not always the most convenient arrangement. But with RAM you are stuck with the factory-set level forever.

You don't necessarily need to max out RAM, that depends on your personal use case.

But a good rule of thumb for soldered-in RAM in a Mac is that whatever Apple's minimum RAM config is, get the next step up.
 

Gudi

Suspended
May 3, 2013
4,590
3,267
Berlin, Berlin
But a good rule of thumb for soldered-in RAM in a Mac is that whatever Apple's minimum RAM config is, get the next step up.
Nope, 8 GB is a good minimum. One reason to get the M2 is a memory bandwidth of 100 GB/s instead of 68.25 GB/s like in the M1. Nowadays it's not the size, but the speed of RAM and SSD that separates new Macs from old.
 
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Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
May 20, 2010
6,024
2,616
Los Angeles, CA
Would a new MacBook Air with an M2 chip be more future proof than one with an M1 chip? Would it accept OS upgrades for a longer period of time?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much.

As others have already said, no one knows yet. However, if A-series iPhones and iPads are any indicator, then it's totally possible. It completely depends on what Apple hardware feature is deemed critically necessary for a future macOS release. Apple has, with iOS and iPadOS, cut off devices based on RAM. With the exception of the M1 iPad Pros, Apple hasn't distributed any iPadOS or iOS device wherein there are differing RAM capacities. It's possible that this could be a factor. Similarly, given that the M1 uses DDR4 whereas M1 Pro, M1 Max, M1 Ultra, and M2 all use DDR5. Could this be a factor for Apple down the road? Totally possible. Again, it entirely depends on what Apple decides is a mandatory.

I don't see raw performance being a key differentiator. Similarly, A14 and A15 aren't THAT crazy of a jump (and therefore M1, M1 Pro, M1 Max, M1 Ultra to their M2 equivalents probably won't be that crazy of a jump either). Certainly, if M2 is allowed, and M1 isn't, it either has nothing to do with performance, or M2 will probably not be a fun SoC to run macOS on at that point in time. Though all of that is based solely on how it's been with iOS and iPadOS.

Future proofing is a folly.

No. Future-proofing is about maximizing how long before you have to spend more money on the next model of the same Apple product you just finished spending money on. It's folly for those that will replace their Apple products prematurely. It's mission critical for those that NEED to maximize that time in between hardware refreshes.

But to answer better, consider that the M1 and M2 share the same architecture.

Define "architecture" here. They're both ARM64 processors, yes. But they're not the same cores. M2 uses Avalanche and Blizzard just as A15 does, while M1/M1 Pro/M1 Max/M1 Ultra all use Firestorm and Icestorm just as A14 does.

I don't see any reason Apple would drop support for the M1 in the future if they are still supporting M2.

Depends on what feature that M2 has that M1 does not. Again, requiring DDR5 is totally something they could mandate. Maybe there'll be something that requires a minimum of one ProRes engine (in which case M1 would be out, but M1 Pro, M1 Max, M1 Ultra, and M2 would all be supported). Who knows? It totally depends on what hardware feature (which may or may not even be publicly disclosed ever) is where they draw the line.

Future proof is just a marketing gimmick that tries to entice people to buy more computer then they need

First off, where, in Apple's marketing has future proofing actually been an actual marketing gimmick?

Secondly, it's the exact opposite of a marketing gimmick as the whole goal is to EXTEND the time between whole device replacements which goes completely counter to Apple's objectives as a company whose primary objective in life is to sell you things.

I'd wager that an M1 with 16GB of RAM would be more future proof than an M2 with 8GB of RAM. But it's just a wager.

If RAM capacity is where Apple draws the line, then this is totally plausible. RAM hasn't been a dividing line for supported Mac models since well before it was no longer user-replaceable/upgradeable. Then again, we're in the Apple Silicon era where it could easily make a difference. Then again, if it's more having to do with generational changes between M1 and M2 rather than RAM, you might see an 8GB RAM M2 configuration get supported whereas a 16GB M1 configuration get left out.

Certainly, if all of the things I've read hold any truth at all, an 8GB M2 configuration isn't going to be as smooth of a ride as a 16GB M1 configuration. Though, I suppose that's subjective to a point.

Nope, 8 GB is a good minimum.

I wouldn't recommend anyone going for any Apple Silicon Mac as their primary Mac (or even primary Apple Silicon Mac) to get 8GB. I have tons of 8GB machines that I use for all sorts of things. Fantastic test machines they are. But I wouldn't ever want to have one as my main machine by any stretch. That 8GB of RAM is limiting in 2022.

One reason to get the M2 is a memory bandwidth of 100 GB/s instead of 68.25 GB/s like in the M1. Nowadays it's not he size, but the speed of RAM and SSD that separates new Macs from old.
Eh...it's not a bad reason. Then again, you have 200GB/s in the M1 Pro and 400GB/s in the M1 Max and my guess is that the more brawnier older chip will still lose support sooner than the weaker newer chip. But, that's me thinking like these are either iPads or Intel Macs and they're technically neither.
 

Richu

macrumors member
Apr 23, 2021
91
148
Would a new MacBook Air with an M2 chip be more future proof than one with an M1 chip? Would it accept OS upgrades for a longer period of time?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much.
This depends on your use case. Be more specific.

No computer will be able to take on all conceivable future workloads indefinitely. But it may be able to take on a niche. What’s your niche?
 

Gudi

Suspended
May 3, 2013
4,590
3,267
Berlin, Berlin
I have tons of 8GB machines that I use for all sorts of things.
And most of them are old, x86, slow ram, slow ssd or even hdd. Just try the M1 iMac with 8GB RAM and tell me, this insanely fast Mac is no main machine!

Then again, you have 200GB/s in the M1 Pro and 400GB/s in the M1 Max and my guess is that the more brawnier older chip will still lose support sooner than the weaker newer chip.
They'll lose software support about as quickly as the normal M1, but until then they are twice and fourfold as fast. If you really want to crunch numbers, the M1 Pro is your friend. And totally coincidentally the MacBook Pro starts with 16 GB RAM.

So no, Apple's minimum RAM config is not always too small. On the contrary! If you don't know exactly for which task you need more memory, you probably don't need it at all. Not now and not ever.

PS: It was however a crime for how long Apple sold the 21" iMac with a spinning disk. So they're not always right with their configs.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
This is why I love the 14" MBP so much. It's a really great mixture of the power of the 16" model and the design of the M2 Air.
Agreed, I was really surprised that when the 14" came out it had all of the same bells and whistles as it more expensive bigger brother. I've been very happy with my 14" MBP.
Normally, I'd agree, but at some point they do cut things off. I mean,
Yeah, but we're talking about an iteration of the M1 design. The OP isn't going to get years more of service out of the M2 then he is out of the M1. What works on the M2 will work on the M1 and that isn't going to change in the future. When Apple moves to categorize the M1 as obsolete, its highly likely the OP and many of us will have already moved on to the M<insert number>
 
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spiderman0616

Suspended
Aug 1, 2010
5,670
7,499
We saw some stagnation when it came to CPU performance in the mid 2010's with Macbooks/iMacs since Apple was 'forced' to use Intel CPUs, but with Apple now making their own chips and Intel and AMD back into a head to head war in the x86 market I think any CPU is going to fair just as well in 5 years from now. Which is not good.

We don't have great data on the longevity of Apple Silicon, but if you look at the Intel side, a 10th Gen i7 (3 years old) is 57% slower then a current gen i9 and a 10th gen i9 is 47% slower then a current gen i9.

TL;DR - Futureproofing is crap, buy what you need today and expect to cycle the laptop every 5-6 years.
I've thought about this a lot too, and I do wonder, what happens when Apple hits a wall in 8-10 years when they've squeezed every ounce of performance they can out of Apple Silicon? I believe it could go a couple of ways:

1. They are so far ahead of the competition by then that they finally realize it's not always necessary to have a yearly breakthrough in chip architecture that pushes the Mac "even further". (I'm so sick of the phrase "even further" in Apple product announcements. Pick something new to say!) Essentially they market their way out of all the CPU talk and focus on the rest of the computer going forward. It's assumed by the public that any Apple computer you buy today will be miles ahead of everything else and that's all you need to care about. We're almost kind of at that point now. Joe Schmoe doesn't know an i7 Mac from an M1 Mac. The kind of users that know what performance-per-watt even means are not common.

2. They hand the reigns back over to another company, or maybe even Intel again, to gain whatever performance improvements there are to be had from a new technology. I feel like Apple would not be too proud to do this if they felt like Apple Silicon was holding the Mac back. But I have a feeling they're already ready for this scenario and are probably working on the next steps. Even so, the CPUs Apple uses in their devices are integral to the entire strategy. They'd change gears if needed. It hopefully wouldn't take them as long to admit defeat as it did with the butterfly switch keyboards.

I don't know--just some things I've worked out lately. Could be 8,000 other scenarios I'm not thinking of.
 

R_Allonce

macrumors member
Sep 20, 2022
70
90
While I understand the idea of trying to "future proof" your tech, I learned a while ago that just buying what you need when you need it saves a lot of stress. I personally don't think too much needs to go into buying whatever piece of tech you need. If you need it now, get it now.
 
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R_Allonce

macrumors member
Sep 20, 2022
70
90
Agreed, I was really surprised that when the 14" came out it had all of the same bells and whistles as it more expensive bigger brother. I've been very happy with my 14" MBP.

Yeah, but we're talking about an iteration of the M1 design. The OP isn't going to get years more of service out of the M2 then he is out of the M1. What works on the M2 will work on the M1 and that isn't going to change in the future. When Apple moves to categorize the M1 as obsolete, its highly likely the OP and many of us will have already moved on to the M<insert number>
I completely agree with you. The 14" is one of the best purchases I made in a while. I am very very happy with the machine and it has not let me down since I have gotten it. I recommend this machine 100% I was really surprised that I liked it that much.
 

ArkSingularity

macrumors 6502a
Mar 5, 2022
928
1,130
512GB SSD to avoid the low speed issue seen in the 256GB SSD M2 MacBook Air...?
Honestly, I still question how much of a difference the SSD speed differences actually make between the two units for most users. There were some youtubers who performed a few benchmarks and found some "noticeable differences" - but this appears (as far as I can tell) to be mostly attributable to the slower swap performance and not necessarily to the slower SSDs (540MB/sec SATA SSDs were the standard for about a decade and they still felt very snappy for day-to-day use. The M2 Air at 1.3GB/sec should, at least in theory, be more than fast enough not to really be that much of a bottleneck.)

With how much hysteria the Youtube community made about it, I'm a little surprised that many of them (*ahem* Max Tech) didn't mention that if you get the 16GB model, the slower swap performance will be less of an issue anyway. I'm not harping on them, I like Max Tech's enthusiasm about products, but they certainly had some rather "interesting" recommendations this time around.

Unfortunately, I've noticed that most of the 16GB configurations are still pretty much build-to-order only. Some retailers do keep 16GB models in stock, but they are usually very high end SKUs with 1TB+ of storage and are beyond the price budget of most users in the 13" market.
 

ondioline

macrumors 6502
May 5, 2020
297
299
Not always. Apple stopped the 2013 Mac Pro with Ventura even though they were still selling it in 2019. Not unreasonable but definitely less than 5 years after stopping sales.
Monterey will be patched until 2024. Technically the trashcan will be supported for 5 years ;P
 
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1BadManVan

macrumors 68040
Dec 20, 2009
3,285
3,446
Bc Canada
More powerful, media engine plus uses faster ram as well. I’m willing to bet it will get atleast another year or two longer support. If you’re buying a laptop to keep long term, always best to get the newest tech currently out
 

ArkSingularity

macrumors 6502a
Mar 5, 2022
928
1,130
Monterey will be patched until 2024. Technically the trashcan will be supported for 5 years ;P
I think Apple's logic is "Oh, well, this thing is ancient compared to everything we are selling today" - and they aren't wrong. But I mean hey, I'm gonna have to say it was probably sold for way too long if they were still selling it in 2019.
 

jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,859
4,599
I think Apple's logic is "Oh, well, this thing is ancient compared to everything we are selling today" - and they aren't wrong. But I mean hey, I'm gonna have to say it was probably sold for way too long if they were still selling it in 2019.
Yeah. The 2013 MP was a highly unusual case and as you said earlier, Apple doesn't actually make any guarantees on how long they will provide system software upgrade support. Still got 9 years of upgrades which is on the longish side for Mac hardware.
 
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Wando64

macrumors 68020
Jul 11, 2013
2,338
3,109
I don't see any reason Apple would drop support for the M1 in the future if they are still supporting M2.

Unless something fundamentally changes about the way Apple have managed this type of things in the past, they will support M2 architecture for longer simply because it was released 2 years later than M1.
 

trevpimp

macrumors 6502a
Apr 16, 2009
697
301
Inside A Mac Box
M1 will be around for many updates because of past Intel processors needing updates despite performance

I'm guessing that Macs with Intel processors manufactured in the past will be due for at least 5 updates which leaves M1 and M2 due for many more I will not worry about future proofing with either of the M1/M2 chips
 

bradl

macrumors 603
Jun 16, 2008
5,952
17,447
🤣🤪🤣 Heavy office work? You're so funny. I think I might need at least 128 GB for heavy idling work on my M1. 32 GB is like 64 K in 1984.

Hey, don't mess with 64K! I ran many a word processor (the reports from that got me through 4th to 12th grade!), Print Shop Pro, plus Karateka, Zaxxon, and F15 Strike Eagle! Hell, even that Introduction to Apple //e disk was fire!

In short, don't mess with 64K! 😁😁

BL.
 
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