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Is the Magic of Apple Fading or Are We Just Chasing Nostalgia?
- Thread starter benroberts3
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Sorry, but this is just dead wrong
Steve was a relentless product guy and we are getting constant offerings from Apple that he would have shot down before we ever say it publicly, as they flat out aren't good enough or serving a purpose of enough utility or interest to a market.
Tim deserves all the hate -- the flop record is getting impressive
This is SO missing
It starts at the leadership level that then trickles down to who gets hired (or not)
There are so so SO many bugs and niggles and weird stuff on ALL their devices and software now and that was a huge part of the "magic" ... and man is it gone
Apple never lost their way. They made reliable, powerful machines 20 years ago and they still do now.
What has changed though is everybody else. Android got in gear. Windows isn't Vista anymore. Asus make great laptops and a Huawei Phone will last you years.
The iPhone also became the 'default' phone for the market and whilst there is nothing wrong with picking Ryu in Street Fighter, he's not as much fun as Blanka.
What has changed though is everybody else. Android got in gear. Windows isn't Vista anymore. Asus make great laptops and a Huawei Phone will last you years.
The iPhone also became the 'default' phone for the market and whilst there is nothing wrong with picking Ryu in Street Fighter, he's not as much fun as Blanka.
Look, I think you're going too far here. One can simply pick Ken for a change of pace.
For me it is the daily things. What do I use for my myriad of things.
Where I used to be predominately Apple, that has long since sailed. I use multiple OS’s and devices. Apple has become more and more “walled” forcing me to look elsewhere. King of ease of use and privacy? That ship has sailed too.
These days I am more Android and Windows. Apple makes great if boring hardware. Quality is typically job #1. These days if I want innovative hardware, look at Android. Touchscreen laptops - not Apple. Foldable devices - not Apple. Phones with unique features or functions - not Apple. Want a Tablet? Apple is just about it. Sammy does have a good one.
When it comes to software and OS’s, Apple leaves a lot to be desired. I test Android devices. I have far more bugs on the iOS than I see in Android. Talking about released, not betas (I do those too
). iOS can do a lot but so much of it is hidden from the normal user. “It does that? Where can I get it / turn it on / access it?”
The days where the iPhone was #1 has come and gone. Gone are the days when ”long lines on launch day” was the norm. Now we keep hearing about Apple Intelligence. They are playing catch up. Might be decent. Might be good. Might find out by the time we see the iPhone 17.
These days, want innovation? Not Apple. Want a good stock? AAPL is an option. The Apple of today is NOT the Apple of old. As a shareholder, I say good. As a user/developer, I say bad.
btw - spell and grammar check still sucks on iOS/iPadOS.
Where I used to be predominately Apple, that has long since sailed. I use multiple OS’s and devices. Apple has become more and more “walled” forcing me to look elsewhere. King of ease of use and privacy? That ship has sailed too.
These days I am more Android and Windows. Apple makes great if boring hardware. Quality is typically job #1. These days if I want innovative hardware, look at Android. Touchscreen laptops - not Apple. Foldable devices - not Apple. Phones with unique features or functions - not Apple. Want a Tablet? Apple is just about it. Sammy does have a good one.
When it comes to software and OS’s, Apple leaves a lot to be desired. I test Android devices. I have far more bugs on the iOS than I see in Android. Talking about released, not betas (I do those too
). iOS can do a lot but so much of it is hidden from the normal user. “It does that? Where can I get it / turn it on / access it?”The days where the iPhone was #1 has come and gone. Gone are the days when ”long lines on launch day” was the norm. Now we keep hearing about Apple Intelligence. They are playing catch up. Might be decent. Might be good. Might find out by the time we see the iPhone 17.
These days, want innovation? Not Apple. Want a good stock? AAPL is an option. The Apple of today is NOT the Apple of old. As a shareholder, I say good. As a user/developer, I say bad.
btw - spell and grammar check still sucks on iOS/iPadOS.
No, the magic of the entire technology industry is fading because it’s not the fun new thing anymore.
This goes for all companies, including Apple, but also Samsung and LG and so on.
And no, “ foldable’s” are absolutely not comparable to the original iPhone.
The original iPhone grasped tons of market share in the first two years.
The first galaxy fold came out almost 6 years ago in 2019 and Foldables still only hold less than 2% marketshare going into 2025..
Meanwhile the iPad Pro, a product that a foldable might cannibalize, is doing better than it has in years.
This goes for all companies, including Apple, but also Samsung and LG and so on.
And no, “ foldable’s” are absolutely not comparable to the original iPhone.
The original iPhone grasped tons of market share in the first two years.
The first galaxy fold came out almost 6 years ago in 2019 and Foldables still only hold less than 2% marketshare going into 2025..
Meanwhile the iPad Pro, a product that a foldable might cannibalize, is doing better than it has in years.
Exactly - probably why the fun new thing is retro:
The Spectrum
Discover The Spectrum, a beautiful recreation of the classic 80s home computer, pre-loaded with 48 genre defining games ready to plug-in and go. Relive the Magic!
retrogames.biz
Behringer | Product | 2600
(The last one is not strictly computer-related, but did you know you can now pretend to be Jean Michelle Jarre for just $400 rather than the cost of a medium sized car? - and the Raspberry Pi is not directly retro - although emulating retro computers is a common use for it - but its creators are open about it being inspired by the 80s BBC Micro and the keyboard version shown is definitely inspired by 80s home computers)
...and more surprisingly, many of the people unboxing these things on YouTube seem to be millennials or later (well, duh, they're posting unboxings on YouTube so...) not just retired boomers or Gen-X midlife-crises folk who grew up using or craving this sort of thing
None of this stuff is really practical in modern terms - but it's pretty clear that many people feel it is more fun to play with than the modern sealed black boxes that do magical but mundane things.
See also instant cameras, vinyl LPs, cassette tapes...
I’m loving this whole thread, but coincidentally I saw the Raspberry PI 500 yesterday and got the feeling I used to get with Apple: do I need it? No. Would I know what to do with it? No. Is it different and looks fun and I just want it so badly? YES. (And unlike Apple’s products, I could afford this one on a whim.)
As others have said, it’s difficult for a company worth more than some countries to play the underdog. But the biggest change in Apple’s culture – apart from Apple Silicon, the first thing in years that got me going ‘ohboyohboyohboy I must have this’, and maybe Vision Pro for some people who are not me – is following, rather than trendsetting. They wait for other companies to get things wrong, such as foldables, and then follow when the technology is ready to deliver the highest quality for the highest price. (Check if not butterfly keyboard.)
I have never seen anyone here defending the upgrade prices. Justifying perhaps, but not defending. The opposite, almost non-stop. Apple charges those ridiculous prices because it can – there is no alternative, especially now that AS killed off hackintoshing for any reason other than geeky fun.
But regarding pricing, every time I see complaints about a $1,099 base Air with only 256GB of storage, and that does have its defenders, I think of little things like Macintosh II… “When introduced, a basic system with monitor and 20 MB hard drive cost US$5,498 (equivalent to $14,750 in 2023). With a 13-inch color monitor and 8-bit display card, the price was about US$7,145 (equivalent to $19,160 in 2023).” (Wikipedia) The maxed out config for Mac Pro, including software and the rack version because it’s more expensive, is $12,947.98 – less than the basic Mac II! Apple has really changed
I miss the excitement of One More Thing. I couldn’t think of anything I need or want, though. We're at the stage where One More Thing will be ‘no more notch’ or ‘Dynamic Island becomes more dynamic’ or ‘Apple Intelligence now allows to generate singing Genmojis’ or ‘Beats Two Classical Radio’ until somebody else introduces a whole new product category, perfects it, and succeeds.
I second.
What I believe Tim Cook did really well, especially with the mindset he came to Apple with, was to scale.
In the Tim Cook era, there was no disruptive new technology with as much social impact as there was during Steve Jobs’ time. The more and more software driven disruptive technologies of our days are invented and implemented by others who have the innovative and disruptive mindset of a Steve Jobs.
Apple hasn’t released new technology with major social impact since the iPhone. They did scale the quality and extent of their products and of the disruptive features they had invented up until the iPhone. Now they seem to be trapped in their monopolistic scheme and their size which somehow makes them hide behind the walls of their impressively large empire.
I really like using their products as they get the job done smoothly and in a way and with a level of integration other products simply don’t have. It is really performant, mature and refined.
But in the end, I work with a mobile phone and a mobile computer and enjoy music from wirelessly controlled speakers, which did at the time change the way I work and create and interact with people and live, but all being around for 2 decades now.
There currently is no Steve Jobs or Sam Altman or Elon Musk at Apple. There are excellent engineers and sales persons though so we can expect further refinement and a market wise stable ecosystem to enjoy.
I second.
What I believe Tim Cook did really well, especially with the mindset he came to Apple with, was to scale.
In the Tim Cook era, there was no disruptive new technology with as much social impact as there was during Steve Jobs’ time. The more and more software driven disruptive technologies of our days are invented and implemented by others who have the innovative and disruptive mindset of a Steve Jobs.
Apple hasn’t released new technology with major social impact since the iPhone. They did scale the quality and extent of their products and of the disruptive features they had invented up until the iPhone. Now they seem to be trapped in their monopolistic scheme and their size which somehow makes them hide behind the walls of their impressively large empire.
I really like using their products as they get the job done smoothly and in a way and with a level of integration other products simply don’t have. It is really performant, mature and refined.
But in the end, I work with a mobile phone and a mobile computer and enjoy music from wirelessly controlled speakers, which did at the time change the way I work and create and interact with people and live, but all being around for 2 decades now.
There currently is no Steve Jobs or Sam Altman or Elon Musk at Apple. There are excellent engineers and sales persons though so we can expect further refinement and a market wise stable ecosystem to enjoy.
Apple has shaped culture and many markets like no other big brand technology company.
It’s is difficult to be „countercultural“ when you are the culture. It is difficult to be „magic“ when everyone knows your tricks.
Apple had great minds at the right time, for decades. They set new standards, now they are the standard.
It’s is difficult to be „countercultural“ when you are the culture. It is difficult to be „magic“ when everyone knows your tricks.
Apple had great minds at the right time, for decades. They set new standards, now they are the standard.
But when one sits on one’s laurels … IMO Apple needs to look to innovate something new and potentially exciting that is affordable for the basic user.
Foldables have a ways to go hardware wise. Loved my Honor Magic V2 but here in the US the warranty is null. Testing a Pixel 9 Pro Fold and it is pretty good. My wife loved the Flip but after two cracked screens … A foldable is something Apple should consider.
As for cannibalizing, a foldable won’t affect the iPad Pro. I use both and the use case is very different. Not the iPad Mini … that’s a possible.
Except when it comes to making the best software for their own platforms
I've started to find many aspects of the Apple experience excruciatingly painful. There is a lot of functionality of iCloud that feels like it's built on sand, and ready to fail at any given moment, and the first and second line support is actually laughable.
Rushing out annual software releases is another downfall.
It's one of the reasons that, after a brief spell of using MacOS 15 and iOS 18 I reverted back to 14 and 17 respectively. I don't want fancy toys, I want a stable machine and infrastructure that I can trust.
Apple is a long way from doomed, but I think that the fatigue is spreading. I used to think that it was Apples hardware that was a little bit flakey, but backed up with great software. Now its the hardware that is great and the software is the issue - in my experience and opinion.
I think that's part of it. Apple was cool because computing was a subculture. Now computing is the prevailing culture, everywhere, used for everything, and impossible to disconnect from. Our phones are no longer cool gadgets but an oppressive part of our work culture that requires us to be constantly available so mediocre middle managers can badger us. Companies have also found ways to exploit our personal information and our addictive, reactive little reptile amygdala's so that far from being liberating tools for finding accurate information technology increasingly serves our confirmation biases, caters to our rage, builds distrust, etc.
I bought my first Mac in 1990, and had Macs in my workplaces for many years. I started using iPhones and iCloud in 2018. Apple TV's since 2015. Never cared for iPad or newer stuff.
Apple isn't exciting to me, though, any longer. How can it be, 34 years later? It's more like an old friend. Still, you must part with some old friends, they get sick and die (RIP, Kenny).
So, I'm not buying any new Macs, I don't need them. I'll probably buy an SE 4, if the rumours checks out. That's what I can say right now.
Apple isn't exciting to me, though, any longer. How can it be, 34 years later? It's more like an old friend. Still, you must part with some old friends, they get sick and die (RIP, Kenny).
So, I'm not buying any new Macs, I don't need them. I'll probably buy an SE 4, if the rumours checks out. That's what I can say right now.
I agree with many of the posters. My first Apple product was the Lisa.
Over the years, especially since Tim Cook, the emphasis for Apple has been on profits instead of quality and innovation. One doesn’t need to look very far other than the number of bugs with each release of MacOS, iOS, and all of the other Apple OS.
As an Apple investor since 2006, the year the iPhone was introduced, I’m lucky to have made money but I made the easy decision to sell all of my Apple holdings earlier this year. Maybe it’s a coincidence but apparently Warren Buffett has similar conclusion about Apple. When quality is lost, it’s the beginning of the end for most companies, including some that I have worked for which no longer exist.
I also have a unique perspective working for an SME company who provided services to Apple in Latin America. I have experienced firsthand Apple’s negotiation tactics and their contract’s Terms & Conditions. The words that come to mind are ‘exploitation’ and ‘condescending’. After 2 years, the company decided to end our contract but Apple tried to argue that the contract is ‘evergreen’ without the possibility of renegotiating one-sided T&C’s or fair compensation for our services. In the end, we simply walked away and never looked back.
I should also point out that my company also provided services to other top Silicon Valley companies and the experience could not have been more different than Apple. I do not believe the words ‘Fair’ or ‘Respect’ are in Apple’s corporate vocabulary. One can look at their product pricing or how they treat their own employees with issues like personal privacy or working conditions. Again, I speak from experience of having the ‘privilege’ to work as an Apple vendor.
Sadly, people like Tim Cook never get such feedback from Apple’s customers and suppliers because they live in an echo chamber that is the direct result of Tim Cook’s leadership.
Exactly (except... I already have 2 Pi 4s, a 3, a 2 and a 1 and I MUST RESIST!)
Can't help suspecting that if Apple released a reproduction iPod Classic - or really did model the next HomePod after the "anglepoise" iMac - without making the price a complete joke, they'd fly off the shelves.
Sure, but if you're going to do that kind of math:But regarding pricing, every time I see complaints about a $1,099 base Air with only 256GB of storage, and that does have its defenders, I think of little things like Macintosh II… “When introduced, a basic system with monitor and 20 MB hard drive cost US$5,498 (equivalent to $14,750 in 2023). With a 13-inch color monitor and 8-bit display card, the price was about US$7,145 (equivalent to $19,160 in 2023).” (Wikipedia) The maxed out config for Mac Pro, including software and the rack version because it’s more expensive, is $12,947.98 – less than the basic Mac II! Apple has really changed
IBM PC, 1981: Pricing started at $1,565 for a configuration with 16 KB RAM, Color Graphics Adapter, keyboard, and no disk drives. (Don't think that included a screen, either). Equivalent to $5434 in 2024 - would get you a workstation-class PC today.
Sinclair Spectrum, 1982: £125 (16 KB) (equivalent to £557 in 2023) - c.f. the ~£100 Raspberry Pi or "The Spectrum" reproduction for £90 (not actually a Raspberry Pi running an emulation, but same principle).
Commodore 64, 1982: US$595 (equivalent to $1,880 in 2023) - gets you a nice "premium" laptop like a MS Surface or Dell XPS today.
...the whole industry has seen the same, exponential, price/performance change over time, so inflation-adjusted prices of classic computers mean zero if you're comparison shopping in 2024.
Plus, the Mac II was an absolute beast in its day - proper, full-32 bit 68020, not the 32/16 68000 used in the Mac and the Commodore Amiga. Really sitting between personal computers and Unix Workstation cost-of-a-small-house territory. Not sure the current Mac Pro is a worthy comparison!
To be fair that's mostly Microsoft doing things badly and Lenovo doing things cheaply.
Apple is providing what should be considered a reasonable standard for every technology company to meet.
I started using Macs primarily because they're a desktop Unix that doesn't suck (unlike Linux).
Today, well, they're still a desktop Unix that doesn't suck (and Linux as a desktop OS still sucks, for everything except Steam), but I am getting increasingly tired of dealing with Apple's general nonsense. Using a Mac as one's primary computer always comes with a laundry list of compromises, many of which are self-inflicted by Apple.
Meanwhile, WSL is actually making Windows somewhat appealing now.
Today, well, they're still a desktop Unix that doesn't suck (and Linux as a desktop OS still sucks, for everything except Steam), but I am getting increasingly tired of dealing with Apple's general nonsense. Using a Mac as one's primary computer always comes with a laundry list of compromises, many of which are self-inflicted by Apple.
Meanwhile, WSL is actually making Windows somewhat appealing now.
WSL (wsl2) does NOT make Windows appealing believe me. I have a corporate machine I have to use regularly and our target clusters are all Linux and the only way to get anything usable on them is WSL. I've personally been looking after herds of Linux machines going back to SLS so I'm not new at that.
Anyway, between the crappy implementation of 9fs in wsl, the complete disparity between windows and linux, the sheer amount of show stopping bugs in it, it's basically the worst engineering experience I've ever had. I mean twice this week the machine hangs with vmmem (the wsl hyper-v VM) ramming 100% of an i7-12850HX core capacity. You can't stop it, reboot it, bounce a service or anything. The VM just hangs solid and you have to physically power cycle the machine.
This is the worst Unix class experience I have ever encountered.