Is the new Mac Pro a failure?

[drnebulous]

I know it's faster, but that isn't anything amazing - computers are going to get faster anyway. Here are some of the problems that I believe it has

1. No PCI slots - Thunderbolt is slower than pci and it also means that you have all the expansions all over your desk. Wires everywhere.

2. Not many usb ports

3. Non user replaceable parts

4. Only one fan

5. Not rack mountable

6. Extreme price increase


Thunderbolt is slower than PCI and way more expensive. It seems like it isn't very practical?

Basically, what I'm trying to say is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3XcUUZQqd0

 

[Korican100]

i think number 4 is a plus

 

[reco2011]

It all depends on what your requirements are. IMO the nMP isn't a failure but it is more narrowly focused than the oMP. Whether that makes it a failure depends on your needs. I love the form factor of the nMP. But I'm keeping my oMP because I like the traditional way of being able to expand it. I wish Apple would have updated the oMP with USB 3.0, Thunderbolt, and SATA-III (along with making a true PCIe SSD available).

 

[Riwam]

I know it's faster, but that isn't anything amazing - computers are going to get faster anyway. Here are some of the problems that I believe it has

1. No PCI slots - Thunderbolt is slower than pci and it also means that you have all the expansions all over your desk. Wires everywhere.

2. Not many usb ports

3. Non user replaceable parts

4. Only one fan

5. Not rack mountable

6. Extreme price increase


Thunderbolt is slower than PCI and way more expensive. It seems like it isn't very practical?

Basically, what I'm trying to say is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3XcUUZQqd0

....................

With some time you will find other things to complain about.
Here some modest proposals for your kind consideration:

1)The oMP gave you much more weight and material for your money than the nMP.
2)It was safer than the nMP if a thief wanted to run with a MP under his arm.
3)The new MP is too silent and you must look for the little lamp to see if it is on.
4)It is less good to heath your room in winter since it remains quite cool.
5)It does not help to create employments in Irland as the oMP did.

No doubt you will find much more negative points with the high tech arguments you use and the deep knowledge you show.
Go on! We are all at your side in this just battle.

 

[handsome pete]

Finally, a thread that brings something new to the table.

All kidding aside, here are my thoughts on your list:

1. This is my biggest issue with it, but really only where GPU choice is concerned. The claim about wires and peripherals strewn about is exaggerated.

2. How many more do you need? Certainly a hub will do if you need more.

3. Again, my biggest qualm here is with no GPU options. RAM and CPU are replaceable. PCIe storage may be in the future.

4. How is this an issue if the one fan cools it fine?

5. May be an issue to some, but the old one wasn't really mountable either despite its traditional form.

6. Not really accurate.

 

[Hirakata]

I know it's faster, but that isn't anything amazing - computers are going to get faster anyway. Here are some of the problems that I believe it has

1. No PCI slots - Thunderbolt is slower than pci and it also means that you have all the expansions all over your desk. Wires everywhere.

2. Not many usb ports

3. Non user replaceable parts

4. Only one fan

5. Not rack mountable

6. Extreme price increase


Thunderbolt is slower than PCI and way more expensive. It seems like it isn't very practical?

Basically, what I'm trying to say is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3XcUUZQqd0

OK, thanks for the info...

 

[mcaswell]

For me, the new form factor is not an issue, and I personally see it as a positive now.

I initially was repulsed by the lack of internal storage capability, but eventually figured out that it would actually work out better for my setup. With the oMP, the only place on my desk where I could fit it (without being totally in the way) was behind the monitor, which wasn't particularly aesthetically pleasing. Later, I moved it to the floor, which cleared up some desk space and looked nicer, but I kept stubbing my toe on it.

With the nMP, because the CPU, storage (in a 3-bay enclosure), and DVD writers are separated, it opens up numerous options for placement on my desk and is working out great. There was an increase in wires (power cords and data cables for the 3 external units), but my old Mac Pro had a crapload of wires coming out of it anyway, so I don't notice a difference.

 

[Umbongo]

They weren't able to keep up with demand for 7 months; so no, it's successful.

Is it the best thing for users? Overall nah, most Americans and Europeans weren't concerned about the physical size - although such things are issues in areas of highly concentrated population in Asia (there were some interesting articles about this when HP released the Z1 workstation).

It's a neat little workstation though that does pack a lot and no doubt based on Apple's data on what systems were selling (single CPU Mac Pros far out sold dual CPU) it caters to a good bunch of professional users. Most people don't need the power you get from a full tower workstation's flexibility.

 

[reco2011]

They weren't able to keep up with demand for 7 months; so no, it's successful.

This in and of itself does not make a product successful or not.

 

[MacProCard]

....................

With some time you will find other things to complain about.
Here some modest proposals for your kind consideration:

1)The oMP gave you much more weight and material for your money than the nMP.
2)It was safer than the nMP if a thief wanted to run with a MP under his arm.
3)The new MP is too silent and you must look for the little lamp to see if it is on.
4)It is less good to heath your room in winter since it remains quite cool.
5)It does not help to create employments in Irland as the oMP did.

No doubt you will find much more negative points with the high tech arguments you use and the deep knowledge you show.
Go on! We are all at your side in this just battle.

LOL. I miss the old giant phone days. Now those were some phones. You could drop them and they wouldn't shatter like the new sleek ones. Buttons were easier to hit. Huge antennas with great reception...

 

[Muppetshow]

They weren't able to keep up with demand for 7 months; so no, it's successful.


It's a neat little workstation though that does pack a lot and no doubt based on Apple's data on what systems were selling (single CPU Mac Pros far out sold dual CPU) it caters to a good bunch of professional users. Most people don't need the power you get from a full tower workstation's flexibility.

Well, the demand might not be the the best analogy, we don't know how much
apple has downsized the production lines compared to the oMP lines. Pity that we don't know the actual sales yet (haven't found info) or the apples profits compared to the oMPs. With the declining sales of the workstations in general they were back against the wall anyhow and this "trick" might have keep them
in the business (in workstations) for few few extra years.

But if you look at the bigger picture, well, things might actually look much grimmer. I personally feel apple has **** the bucket in the pro/creator area with their decisions, be it logic/fcp x etc.
I am working on the old continent in the gfx/still/moving images + sound creation world and things are looking goddam bad for apple there.

Adobes Cloud move (including the premier/afterfx) has really,really shifted the balance. Most production houses and tvs/movie productions have switched to
PC side after the Final Cut x cockup. Print/photogs/prepress have done the same to huge extent. I personally don't know a single photographer that has bought then nMP but know few that has gotten the iMac and several that has switched to the PC side, getting towers and flipped over thanks to the adobes nice move.

Personally, well, I am 95% sure that I will follow to the dark side in the near future. Will set up Win 7 & 8.1 in my oMP next week to check out how things go
and by autumn I will probably get a PC and switch for good. Have been using
macs for since quadras it feels a bit sad to move along but the recent problems in my MacWorld has expedited my change.
Bricked iPhone after iOS 7.1, extremely weird apple account issues, Macbook problems, iPad issues etc in the last weeks have definitely helped to make my decision.

Oh well, things move on.

 

[MacProCard]

Well, the demand might not be the the best analogy, we don't know how much
apple has downsized the production lines compared to the oMP lines. Pity that we don't know the actual sales yet (haven't found info) or the apples profits compared to the oMPs. With the declining sales of the workstations in general they were back against the wall anyhow and this "trick" might have keep them
in the business (in workstations) for few few extra years.

But if you look at the bigger picture, well, things might actually look much grimmer. I personally feel apple has **** the bucket in the pro/creator area with their decisions, be it logic/fcp x etc.
I am working on the old continent in the gfx/still/moving images + sound creation world and things are looking goddam bad for apple there.

Adobes Cloud move (including the premier/afterfx) has really,really shifted the balance. Most production houses and tvs/movie productions have switched to
PC side after the Final Cut x cockup. Print/photogs/prepress have done the same to huge extent. I personally don't know a single photographer that has bought then nMP but know few that has gotten the iMac and several that has switched to the PC side, getting towers and flipped over thanks to the adobes nice move.

Personally, well, I am 95% sure that I will follow to the dark side in the near future. Will set up Win 7 & 8.1 in my oMP next week to check out how things go
and by autumn I will probably get a PC and switch for good. Have been using
macs for since quadras it feels a bit sad to move along but the recent problems in my MacWorld has expedited my change.
Bricked iPhone after iOS 7.1, extremely weird apple account issues, Macbook problems, iPad issues etc in the last weeks have definitely helped to make my decision.

Oh well, things move on.

You bring up some interesting points. I think Apple is looking to redefine the workstation concept though. They see it as needing to be more mobile and appealing to the new generation of prosumers. --The GoPro generation.

HD camcorders are very cheap these days which allows for more multicam projects. And one of the nice things about FCP is it allows for different camera resolutions.

 

[Bazu]

I know it's faster, but that isn't anything amazing - computers are going to get faster anyway. Here are some of the problems that I believe it has

1. No PCI slots - Thunderbolt is slower than pci and it also means that you have all the expansions all over your desk. Wires everywhere.

2. Not many usb ports

3. Non user replaceable parts

4. Only one fan

5. Not rack mountable

6. Extreme price increase


Thunderbolt is slower than PCI and way more expensive. It seems like it isn't very practical?

Basically, what I'm trying to say is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3XcUUZQqd0

If you clash your minor issues with real advantages then nMP is definitely not a failure.

1) It's really fast and the 10.9.4 fixed all the issues with Premiere / Gaming etc.
2) It's very quiet.
3) It's small, sit on my desk and I have more space for my legs under , also don't have to dive to power it on.
4) GPU's are very decent all of them are very capable. No nVidia? Well doesn't much matter.
5) It's power efficient mean you pay less electricity bills
6) No heat issues despite only one fan.
7) Easier to clean up, wipe dust from top, blow through the top to get dust off the bottom and you done.
8) Many TB2 ports mean you change your mac and all your peripherals stay untouched, no hassle of un-mounting it from the inside etc. For example your nMP brakes and need service you can connect the stuff to your Macbook no problem. Can't see it you doing with internal drives, cards, etc. so easily.
9) Doubt you need more than 4 fast USB3 ports. Most stuff don't go beyond USB2, and that you can expand with HUB.
10) Failure hardware don't get 3 months queue to get one. Can't see any PC hardware to be so popular, that factory is not cooping with demand.

My 10 cents

 

[tuxon86]

You bring up some interesting points. I think Apple is looking to redefine the workstation concept though. They see it as needing to be more mobile and appealing to the new generation of prosumers. --The GoPro generation.

HD camcorders are very cheap these days which allows for more multicam projects. And one of the nice things about FCP is it allows for different camera resolutions.

The nMP isn't more mobile then the oMP when you factor in the monitor(s) and external device you have to carry... Beside HP as been selling real portable workstation, equiped with Quadro GPU for years.

And beside, you don't even need a workstation if all you are doing is editing GoPro footage...

 

[63dot]

It's been a long time since Mac Pro/Power Mac has been a major factor in Apple. It will stay a niche product which meets the needs for a small subset of Apple's customers.

For what it is, it's a great computer but we are talking about a larger context where iPhones and iPads run the direction of Apple. It took something other than a computer to put Apple into Dell, ATT, and Microsoft type of numbers.

 

[mcnallym]

I thought it had been a while since we had a thread like this.

1.) PCI-E slots - By the time you add that second GPU to match the nMP then you are left with two times PCI-E x4 slots that share those 4 lanes between them. TB uses PCIE x4 to connect the TB Controller to the host, but you have more of them on the nMP so it really isn't going to be slower as each remaining PCI-E slot on the oMP is only x2 in effect. You only have one x16 spare by default which to match the nMP once filled with a second GPU is taken up already. Yes if not into the Video Editing then you wouldn't install the second GPU but lets face it the nMP is aimed squarely at Video Editing.

2.) USB Ports - what you want wires trailing all across plugging those USB devices in? Yet you complain about TB Cables? Use a TB Dock that provides additional USB3 ports. From what read of the USB implementation on the nMP then would suggest that other then Keyboard/Mouse wouldn't use the onboard USB anyway.

3.) Not many user replaceable parts - Playing a hunch then Apple was speaking with people like Pixar who can simply swap the device out so much quicker then messing about with the oMP. I suspect that most of the people they spoke with weren't that interested in user replaceable parts. Remember that a lot of people on forums like this are more interested in modding an tinkering then Average Joe is or the IT Dept is. Back in 94/95 when doing my year out then if you had an issue with the PC then it was simply swapped out for a replacement machine, then they sorted out the machine afterwards. The nMP fits into that sort of model very nicely.

4.) Only one Fan - you only use as many fans as you need. If it only needs one Fan then why put extra ones in.

5.) Not Rack Mountable - Sonnetech Solution ( Adds PCI-E via TB into the Rack as well or simply place on a shelf in a rack.

6.) Price Increase - Apple will charge what can get away with.

I think that Apple have very closely targeted the nMP and it isn't going to be at a lot of the people that have bought up oMP and modified them as much as people have here.

 

[goMac]

1. No PCI slots - Thunderbolt is slower than pci and it also means that you have all the expansions all over your desk. Wires everywhere.

2. Not many usb ports

3. Non user replaceable parts

4. Only one fan

5. Not rack mountable

6. Extreme price increase

4. How is that a con?
5. https://www.macrumors.com/2014/03/26/mac-pro-racmount/ , http://modemount.com , http://geekbeat.tv/jmr-electronics-launches-probracket-rack-mount-new-mac-pro/ , http://www.techrepublic.com/article/rack-mount-your-new-mac-pro-with-these-third-party-accessories/ , Apple also has official specs on how the Mac Pro should be rack mounted.
6. $500 is not "extreme." That's an "extreme" price increase like Taco Bell being "extreme" mexican food.

 

[tuxon86]

It's been a long time since Mac Pro/Power Mac has been a major factor in Apple. It will stay a niche product which meets the needs for a small subset of Apple's customers.

For what it is, it's a great computer but we are talking about a larger context where iPhones and iPads run the direction of Apple. It took something other than a computer to put Apple into Dell, ATT, and Microsoft type of numbers.

I came to the realization a while ago that what is really killing the Mac Pro market are indeed the iPad and iPhone.

When Apple was a "computer" company first and foremost, it made sense of producing a powerful version that could be used to develop and run scientific/engineering/Pro applications. But now that their market as shifted and opened a new lucrative market in the simple/easy to develop iPad and iPhone apps, Apple just don't need the "Pro" market anymore.

You sure don't need a nMP to develop iPhone apps... You can do that on a Mac Mini.

The only real "pro" market left to Apple is the media film/music/graphic one and even that isn't really going so well in this economy with FX and Graphic studio closing right and left.

Like you, I see the nMP more and more as a niche product created to please the dying breed of diehard fans.

 

[BenTrovato]

It's a stylish piece of tech. If money was no object I would buy it. I prefer my custom desktop powered os x though. Every part is upgradable. Non-upgradable parts work for some people.

 

[MacProCard]

The nMP isn't more mobile then the oMP when you factor in the monitor(s) and external device you have to carry... Beside HP as been selling real portable workstation, equiped with Quadro GPU for years.

And beside, you don't even need a workstation if all you are doing is editing GoPro footage...

Really? It is more mobile and that is a fact. --It weighs a lot less and is a lot smaller than a standard workstation.Geez. While 20lbs might not be big to you but it could be to a woman. Besides, 2 power cords and a TB cable and you're good to go.

Take a step back a look at all the HD cameras in a potential household. That's why this nMP is tuned for Final Cut Pro.

Says you. Raw footage from multicam projects can get very large.

 

[joelypolly]

I think the problem is that the definition of a "Pro User" has changed and continues to change. Apple is incredibly brutal when it comes to redefining the terms.

Personally I feel Apple wants to take the power of creation and put it in the hands of more people. If they think that it will alienate some "Pro Users" along that way they don't appear to mind, if 2 more users can now pick up the software because it is now easier to use they are satisfied.

 

[handsome pete]

5. https://www.macrumors.com/2014/03/26/mac-pro-racmount/ , http://modemount.com , http://geekbeat.tv/jmr-electronics-launches-probracket-rack-mount-new-mac-pro/ , http://www.techrepublic.com/article/rack-mount-your-new-mac-pro-with-these-third-party-accessories/ , Apple also has official specs on how the Mac Pro should be rack mounted.

Eh, none of those solutions are very good. They're more or less workarounds in order to do something it really wasn't designed in mind to do. Simply put, the Mac Pro has never been ideal for rackmounting. The new version is no different.

The only real "pro" market left to Apple is the media film/music/graphic one and even that isn't really going so well in this economy with FX and Graphic studio closing right and left.

VFX studios are closing due to that work being exported. That doesn't take the computer element out of it.

 

[fuchsdh]

Asking "is the Mac Pro a failure" is, aside from a flippant law of headlines response, impossible. We don't know how many Apple has sold, or expects to sell. Clearly there was a pent-up demand for a new professional workstation from Apple; whether that holds in the future is of course hard to say.

There's two ways to criticize the new Pro—from the low end and the high end. The low end complains that the new Mac lacks the expandability, upgrade capacity (at least at this point), and has too high a price. These people have been ill-served for years; Apple hasn't made an "xMac" since at least 2003.*

The second is the high-end; Apple clearly focused on video editing as a primary use case, leaving people who do other high-end niche applications like scientific number-crunching in the cold (insofar as only 64GB capacities, etc.) Some of this will evaporate over time, as even on the PC side dual GPUs are becoming a more popular option, but there's no doubt that a small segment of a small segment that is professionals are objectively ill-served by the form factor change.

But "failure" is immaterial to these peoples' complaints; it either succeeds without their business or it doesn't. Many have argued that Apple needs to treat the Mac Pro like a BMW, and I think in a way that's what they're doing; but it's entirely a question of how much Apple is willing to invest in a product that is such a tiny portion of their revenue. I think the only "logical" reason they do so is sort of an illogical one; they're a company that wants to make cool, cutting-edge stuff. As long as that's the case, there will always be a professional Mac.

*I know there were xMac calls earlier than this, but I feel like the G4s addressed the prosumer-professional segment better than the G5s and ultimately Xeons did and do (G4 upgrades were plentiful, and even for the time they were pretty cheap—a Quicksilver G4 even today would cost $1000 less than a nMP, adjusted for inflation.) Many people have said "why can't they throw an i7 and single GPU into the Mac Pro and make the xMac", and for a lot of people they wouldn't be losing any power. It's a fair criticism, which can only be answered by the age-old truism that Apple doesn't cater every market and is unlikely to ever do so.

 

[handsome pete]

Take a step back a look at all the HD cameras in a potential household.

Your average household doesn't need a workstation.

 

[Muppetshow]

You bring up some interesting points. I think Apple is looking to redefine the workstation concept though. They see it as needing to be more mobile and appealing to the new generation of prosumers. --The GoPro generation.

HD camcorders are very cheap these days which allows for more multicam projects. And one of the nice things about FCP is it allows for different camera resolutions.

True to certain extent.

I have friends working both in the outdoor (mtb/ski/climb) as well as in national tv + movie industry I have seen that 98% of the peeps use MacBookPros or Pc based laptops. When productions travel around, be it national tv-crews or X-sport crews they travel with small budgets and absurd time constraints. There is just zero possibility to convince the producers to fetch in some extra coin to get anything extra stuff shipped/extra luggage.
And most of the locations have big constraints with electricity infra so running a workstation is often a no-no. That varies from being in a tent in Baffin Island shooting base jumping or doing some on-the-road-cooking programs.
Heck, lot of big money ParadiseIslandTM shows do their pre-edits on their laptops as well as the remote locations have problems with the power, be it supported with aggregators or not. Workstations are just too fragile to power interruptions compared to lighting rigs or whatnot.
But, I can understand that on that side of the pond, with big money productions it might not be that big issue and you have the possibility to take the workstations on the road?

I have seen two times (I think) where there were workstations on a movie set, both were in a location that had a robust electricity infra. They were used for some composition testing on the fly but most of the time it has been laptops.
Hell, shot some high speed Phantom Miro stuff few weeks ago and tada...PC laptop. Phantom has not even bothered to make a proper mac based program for converting/viewing their stuff...


Yep, this is just my inane ramblings and they might not be worth a damn, just throwing some thoughts about. Yes, still see that few music studios buying workstations and yes...3D studios are frigging packed with them...but...
Things change.

My 0.2€