Yeah, that's the other "huh?" here. The old Mac Pro wasn't exactly a rack mounting champ either. At least with the new one you can mount several in the same space as the old one.
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Is the new Mac Pro a failure?
- Thread starter drnebulous
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Yeah, that's the other "huh?" here. The old Mac Pro wasn't exactly a rack mounting champ either. At least with the new one you can mount several in the same space as the old one.
Good post.
I also the see the adventure hobbyist, youtube'ers wanting them. -- The mountain bikers, skiers, rafters, skaters, product reviews.
If it works for your needs then it's all good.
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And the average household doesn't use those cameras either. But I imagine the ones that do and use FCP are very interested in a nMP over say a new PC. Just saying.
Once agin, a multicam project is quite large.
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Not a failure IMO
My opinion obviously...
1)
It's faster and provides greater productivity than any previous MacPro. I have two other 12-core 2.93 GHz MP5,1, each with SSDs, Sapphire 7950s, 64GB RAM and my 12 core 2.7 GHz MP6,1 with 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, Dual D700s outpaces the two MP5,1s easily. The Geekbench 3 (64-bit) multi core score for the MP5,1s is around 28000 and the MP6,1 is at around 33000.
2)
Connecting three displays to the MP6,1 is a plug & play exercise without any fuss.
3)
I run the MPs 7x24x365 and the MP6,1 eats a lot less electricity that the MP5,1s. This in itself saves me money.
4)
The MP5,1's fans will at times go ballistic when a heavy workload is being done, whereas the MP6,1 stays absolutely quiet in comparison.
5)
Moving the 11 lb MP6,1 around to different locations in the office is a non issue whereas moving the 60 lb MP5,1 is a real challenge, and If twisted my back many times doing this.
6)
MP6,1s RAM replacement/upgrades is a snap and actually a lot easier than even for the MP5,1 which is also quite easy.
7)
OWC has already shown that the MP6,1 processors can be upgraded.
8)
I suspect it's just a matter of time for the likes of OWC to find a way to upgrade the PCIe SSD in the MP6,1.
9)
I have but one Thunderbolt cable connecting my daisy chained 4x LaCie 2big units, with the final 2big connecting to my Burly 5-bay eSATA Port Multiplier enclosure via a Sonnet adapter. This setup provides 45 TB is storage. The Burly is for data archiving as it has hot swappable disks. All of the storage units are hidden away in a closet and out of sight. Use of black Thunderbolt cables lessens there presence. Thunderbolt cables can now be obtained in the 300-foot long range.
10)
The MP6,1 really is inconspicuous compared to the very visible MP5,1. This may or may not be seen as a +ive by others, but for me it is.
11)
Sooner or later the MP5,1 will fall behind and not be supported by future Mac OS X releases.
12)
MP6,1 carries a 3 year warranty. The MP5,1 are no longer under warranty.
13)
To pimp out an existing MP5,1 to be as close to the MP6,1 (12core, Dual D700s, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM) will cost around $8500 plus sales tax or some $9,300. This is with installing two Nvidia Quadro K5000s in the MP5,1. These cards run from $1800 to $2500 depending on where you shop.
14)
BTW... the MP6,1s can be racked -- see https://www.macrumors.com/2014/04/02/sonnet-rack-mount-mac-pro/
15)
I guess the one fan in the MP6,1 could be considered a -ive because if it fails the whole machine is affected... single point of failure etc. However, with it spinning around at 750 rpm and occasionally spinning up to 1000 rpm does not place too much stress on its components IMO.
16)
Access to the ports on the MP6,1 is much much easier than getting to the ports on the MP5,1... plus they are lit up for better visibility.
17)
Packaging for the MP6,1 vs. the packaging for the MP5,1 allows for more efficient S&H and there's less cardboard and paper being used.... good for the environment along with the 50 lb less weight.
18)
Enhanced security has now been made available -- https://www.macrumors.com/2014/07/01/mac-pro-security-lock-adapter/
19)
.... and the list of +ives can be extended.
My opinion obviously...
1)
It's faster and provides greater productivity than any previous MacPro. I have two other 12-core 2.93 GHz MP5,1, each with SSDs, Sapphire 7950s, 64GB RAM and my 12 core 2.7 GHz MP6,1 with 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, Dual D700s outpaces the two MP5,1s easily. The Geekbench 3 (64-bit) multi core score for the MP5,1s is around 28000 and the MP6,1 is at around 33000.
2)
Connecting three displays to the MP6,1 is a plug & play exercise without any fuss.
3)
I run the MPs 7x24x365 and the MP6,1 eats a lot less electricity that the MP5,1s. This in itself saves me money.
4)
The MP5,1's fans will at times go ballistic when a heavy workload is being done, whereas the MP6,1 stays absolutely quiet in comparison.
5)
Moving the 11 lb MP6,1 around to different locations in the office is a non issue whereas moving the 60 lb MP5,1 is a real challenge, and If twisted my back many times doing this.
6)
MP6,1s RAM replacement/upgrades is a snap and actually a lot easier than even for the MP5,1 which is also quite easy.
7)
OWC has already shown that the MP6,1 processors can be upgraded.
8)
I suspect it's just a matter of time for the likes of OWC to find a way to upgrade the PCIe SSD in the MP6,1.
9)
I have but one Thunderbolt cable connecting my daisy chained 4x LaCie 2big units, with the final 2big connecting to my Burly 5-bay eSATA Port Multiplier enclosure via a Sonnet adapter. This setup provides 45 TB is storage. The Burly is for data archiving as it has hot swappable disks. All of the storage units are hidden away in a closet and out of sight. Use of black Thunderbolt cables lessens there presence. Thunderbolt cables can now be obtained in the 300-foot long range.
10)
The MP6,1 really is inconspicuous compared to the very visible MP5,1. This may or may not be seen as a +ive by others, but for me it is.
11)
Sooner or later the MP5,1 will fall behind and not be supported by future Mac OS X releases.
12)
MP6,1 carries a 3 year warranty. The MP5,1 are no longer under warranty.
13)
To pimp out an existing MP5,1 to be as close to the MP6,1 (12core, Dual D700s, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM) will cost around $8500 plus sales tax or some $9,300. This is with installing two Nvidia Quadro K5000s in the MP5,1. These cards run from $1800 to $2500 depending on where you shop.
14)
BTW... the MP6,1s can be racked -- see https://www.macrumors.com/2014/04/02/sonnet-rack-mount-mac-pro/
15)
I guess the one fan in the MP6,1 could be considered a -ive because if it fails the whole machine is affected... single point of failure etc. However, with it spinning around at 750 rpm and occasionally spinning up to 1000 rpm does not place too much stress on its components IMO.
16)
Access to the ports on the MP6,1 is much much easier than getting to the ports on the MP5,1... plus they are lit up for better visibility.
17)
Packaging for the MP6,1 vs. the packaging for the MP5,1 allows for more efficient S&H and there's less cardboard and paper being used.... good for the environment along with the 50 lb less weight.
18)
Enhanced security has now been made available -- https://www.macrumors.com/2014/07/01/mac-pro-security-lock-adapter/
19)
.... and the list of +ives can be extended.
I'm well aware of what a multicam project entails. I was replying to your comment about all of the potential HD cameras in a household by saying that the average household doesn't need a workstation. You seemed to be implying that there are a ton of households needing this type of computer. That's just not true. Unless I'm reading into that statement wrong. And in that case, I have no idea what you're trying to say.
The comments about the new model being more narrowly focused seems true and there is also the fact that the rate of progress with desktop computers has really slowed down making it seem less value for money spent for many.
If you are using the machine to make money especially with FCP X or anything that can make use of the dual GPUs I'm sure you should upgrade. The new machine will be faster, quieter and use less power for sure.
If you have an 2006/07 model you should probably upgrade as well.
With the 09 to 12 models it is a little harder to justify in every case because of the options to upgrade to close to current performance...
For me if I look what my 2009 8-Core machine cost back when new and what today I would get for the same price it is difficult to justify the jump as more of a hobbyist.
I would have to go down from 8 to 4 cores (16 to 8 threads) and although I might see almost double the single core performance the multi core would be very similar.
I already have a 7950 and nothing I use can currently make use of the duel GPUs so D300 would probably be a downgrade and going all the way to the D700s is a huge expense.
I already have a 500GB SSD so would find it hard to go back to 256GB although the new Mac Pro one is obviously much faster.
I would need to find a solution to house my four internal disks...
To be fair it maybe that the iMac will eventually be the best option for me but at the moment it has similar issues - the multicore CPU performance is too similar and the GPU is probably not quiet as good as what I already have plus the expense of a large enough SSD.
If you are using the machine to make money especially with FCP X or anything that can make use of the dual GPUs I'm sure you should upgrade. The new machine will be faster, quieter and use less power for sure.
If you have an 2006/07 model you should probably upgrade as well.
With the 09 to 12 models it is a little harder to justify in every case because of the options to upgrade to close to current performance...
For me if I look what my 2009 8-Core machine cost back when new and what today I would get for the same price it is difficult to justify the jump as more of a hobbyist.
I would have to go down from 8 to 4 cores (16 to 8 threads) and although I might see almost double the single core performance the multi core would be very similar.
I already have a 7950 and nothing I use can currently make use of the duel GPUs so D300 would probably be a downgrade and going all the way to the D700s is a huge expense.
I already have a 500GB SSD so would find it hard to go back to 256GB although the new Mac Pro one is obviously much faster.
I would need to find a solution to house my four internal disks...
To be fair it maybe that the iMac will eventually be the best option for me but at the moment it has similar issues - the multicore CPU performance is too similar and the GPU is probably not quiet as good as what I already have plus the expense of a large enough SSD.
Really? It is more mobile and that is a fact. --It weighs a lot less and is a lot smaller than a standard workstation.Geez.
Take a step back a look at all the HD cameras in a potential household. That's why this nMP is tuned for Final Cut Pro.
Says you. Raw footage from multicam projects can get very large.
You forgot the screen and the external HDD...
A laptop workstation is even more portable, too bad Apple aren't selling any. HP does though...
Nobody is bringing a desktop workstation in the field except in a production van or in a rolling cart. Use the right tool for the job. If you need to move, get a laptop workstation.
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They're closing abroad too. Just go to CGSociety and hang in the forum a bit (CGTalk). There isn't a week when a popular FX studio isn't closing it's door. Beside, cheap sweatshop aren't really buying truckload of nMP either. They tend to use PC for their workstation combine with a render farm.
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Don't need a workstation to edit GoPro HD video... Or any consumer HD camera footage.
Just that it's a emerging market which translates into potential sales. I haven't seen the numbers but imagine they look good. I bet the average upper-middle class homes have at least 10-15 HD cameras. They even tied the marketing of the nMP to FCP. Which strong suit is multicam. My son is in the 4th grade and they have movie making camp at his school. The best markets are the growing ones.
What is this based on? Seriously. Because I actually work in post production. I haven't seen speedy adoption of FCP X, that's true. But the vast majority of projects seem to still be FCP 7 or Avid Media Composer, with Premiere and FCP X both quite uncommon (about equally so). As far as I know there is no survey, poll, etc. that shows "most" productions or facilities have switched to Windows and Premiere. It's certainly not what I'm seeing at all. But somehow it's "common knowledge" in non-industry forums.
I'm sorry, this reeks of trying to stack the argument. Why oh why would you pick the card that costs the most and has the least performance to dollar ratio?
It is common knowledge that the D700 is a watered down 7970. You can have 2 of those and a power supply in the OD bay for less than a grand. There is a guy here who watered his 7970s to D700 clocks and runs them solely on internal power.
Just that it's a emerging market which translates into potential sales. I haven't seen the numbers but imagine they look good. I bet the average upper-middle class homes have at least 10-15 HD cameras. They even tied the marketing of the nMP to FCP. Which strong suit is multicam. My son is in the 4th grade and they have movie making camp at his school. The best markets are the growing ones.
So wait, you're actually suggesting that multi-cam editing is some sort of wave of the future? One that's going to take off in the casual consumer market?
C'mon, that's ridiculous. It's been around in NLEs for years and FCPX is not unique in its ability to offer it.
Your estimate of 10-15 HD cameras seems entirely ridiculous as well. Maybe if you hobble together everyone's cell phone, old devices that are laying around, and that camcorder that probably hasn't seen use in a few years you start to approach double digits. But even that's a stretch. And that's assuming people are going out there shooting events or everyday life with several cameras at once and then having the desire to edit it later. If the fast-paced, quick burst environment of the internet and social media has shown us anything, it's that your average person isn't editing longform material and they'll likely just use their smartphone/tablet to capture, edit, and post directly.
Yeah, that's been my observation as well. The vast migration to PC or Premiere has been exaggerated. Premiere has certainly made some gains from the FCPX release, but I still mostly see Media Composer and FCP7 out there.
As for the PC side of it, I haven't seen any real changer there either. But I haven't seen the nMP out in any facilities either. So I wouldn't be surprised if many of the bigger places don't go with it when it's time to upgrade. Most of these places aren't running Macs exclusively anyway.
I have to say, as someone who did this for years, dual GPUs are pretty damn awkward in the old Mac Pro, especially if you need anything else in there, which I did (RAID controller, broadcast video I/O). Powerful GPUs on board + Thunderbolt 2 for RAID and video I/O make everything much smoother though yes, at the cost of GPU upgrade opportunities.
Someone mentioned Software as a great example. When I first started, you had to write complex data connections and loops to display data tables. Now all you have to do is drop and drag. Video production is headed in the same direction like it or not.
I've seen some nice FCPX tutorials doing just that. Using multiple iPhones and iPads. Wonder why they chose those types of cameras to use?
It's exceedingly rare to even have a client drop off a Windows-formatted drive. Or even ask about drive formatting, really; it's still just assumed everything will be Mac-formatted.
A lot of 'big iron' DI workflows are on Linux, and will likely remain there. We run our main suite off a new Mac Pro, which has performed quite nicely for us, but depending on the timing we might move to Linux as well when we retool for real-time 4K.
And a lot of creative editorial (for projects that don't rent edit suites) seems to happen on MacBook Pros these days. Which is fine; editing with offline formats (ProRes LT, DNxHD 36, etc.) even at 1080p doesn't require workstation-class hardware anymore. Hasn't for years now. And Thunderbolt means you can get real broadcast video I/O from a MBP or iMac.
Someone mentioned Software as a great example. When I first started, you had to write complex data connections and loops to display data tables. Now all you have to do is drop and drag. Video production is headed in the same direction like it or not.
I've seen some nice FXCP tutorials doing just that. Using multiple iPhones and iPads. Wonder why they chose those types of cameras to use?
You're trying to declare that there's a huge demand out there for multi-cam editing among your everyday consumer. I'd like to see some evidence for that because I don't think that's even close to being true.
Of course making a process easier is going to be great for anyone, but longform multi-cam editing will remain the domain of professionals and hobbyists.
Besides, that still isn't a good enough reason to explain Apple shrinking the footprint so much. As mentioned numerous times, you do not need a workstation for smoothly editing multiple streams of video. There are even much more portable solutions readily available.
If you need a portable workstation then you need something like this:
http://shopping1.hp.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/WW-USSMBPublicStore-Site/en_US/-/USD/ViewProductDetail-Start;pgid=jDJwlVlq2W9SR0Yk2kO1Yuen0000vcPSTd0q;sid=MqwX5DgpkYhN5Gucg9IIbeAm4KIvlSGzR9o=?ProductUUID=0jAQ7EN5Q_EAAAFAlh1IJazg&CatalogCategoryID=eY4Q7habo6wAAAFDjNcsvrFv
Our engineer use these when they have to do some Catia on the road (or where no road exist yet!).
Note: You can get a Xeon processor and dual GPU if you ask for a quote from HP. Those are built to order and available for a volume order.
http://shopping1.hp.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/WW-USSMBPublicStore-Site/en_US/-/USD/ViewProductDetail-Start;pgid=jDJwlVlq2W9SR0Yk2kO1Yuen0000vcPSTd0q;sid=MqwX5DgpkYhN5Gucg9IIbeAm4KIvlSGzR9o=?ProductUUID=0jAQ7EN5Q_EAAAFAlh1IJazg&CatalogCategoryID=eY4Q7habo6wAAAFDjNcsvrFv
Our engineer use these when they have to do some Catia on the road (or where no road exist yet!).
Note: You can get a Xeon processor and dual GPU if you ask for a quote from HP. Those are built to order and available for a volume order.
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Just talking about of my own personal experiences, from Scandihoovia, the old continent. I have had the pleasure to work both in still & moving images and most of my friends work in the industry, in 4-5 different countries here.
Friends work in top of the shelf national TVs/vfx & edit houses.
Personally have worked now 20 years in photo/advertisement industry.
As a bonus I have the pleasure to do my post studies in 2 different schools (univ) so I get to see where the educational system is heading as well.
Looking from that perspective, a lot has changed in the last 2-3 years.
Avid+BM/davinci+Premier+AE. Thats about it in both in the industry & schools where they teach the youngsters. Havent seen FCP in ages there.
This might be due to our POV´s. We have different perspectives, I am just relaying what I am seeing here, from my point of view, and hopefully people realize that.
I would like to think I have no qualms or own agendas with apple or anything that is going on in the industry. The machines for me, personally, are just a miniscule part of the trade. I personally cant give a toss on what machine I (or someone else) do my projects on, just as long as wheels keep on turning and good **** turns up!
And you're trying to declare there's not. Why is that? Don't think some mountain bikers can do it? Have you seen the success stories about GoPro? That footage has to be edited somewhere.
Just ask Apple. They want it to be a field deployable option. I'll never use it that way but some people might. I'm not going to pretend I know their needs.
But I also find it terribly inaccurate to think Apple just changed things to change them. They do market analysis none stop. They see a demand here!
There is nothing magical about the GoPro... They save in standard h264 format. You can edit it with a $95.00us linear editor like VideoRedo and since the resulting file is in the same format it's a straight copy, so no compression. It takes about 5 minutes to process a 2 hours GoPro HD video.
Yeah, but G4s were both power-hungry and gutless, G5s performed like workstations.
Where is this Apple knowledgebase you're getting all of your information from?
Of course they can. Anyone can. That's never been the issue. You're talking about an extremely niche market and projecting it to become some mainstream phenomenon.
I'm sorry I keep bringing up GoPro. Forget them. I don't use them either. Just as an example. You seem to be stuck on it. The real point is the rising popularity of video recorders.
The other point is we have HD cameras everywhere. Even Kids have access to multiples ones now. Unlike 10 yrs ago. Thus a growing market for FCP which is optimized for nMP. And it can easily be taken to a friends house for the night.
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