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Is the new Mac Pro a failure?

Is the new Mac Pro a Failure for traditional Mac Creative and Professional customers

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Daisy81 said:
I seem to have struck a nerve.
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Not in the slightest. If anything, I'm just worried that you're heading for a fall; that you'll get some lovely, lucrative rush job and your system will die in the middle of it. The world of editing is full of competition and gossips. One bad slip can end a business.

Daisy81 said:
If you like the new Mac Pro that is your opinion. My opinion is that it is crap. It is out dated and selling old processors as new for top dollar and forcing expansion to be external. If they update the current one with new processors it wouldn't be crap but it would remain disappointing in my opinion.
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I definitely agree about it being outdated. The fact that the 5k iMac kicks its butt is embarrassing to say the least. But to me they're all just tools so, if my cMP dies, it might get replaced by an iMac. (Unlikely as I use a lot of VMs but not impossible.)

Daisy81 said:
There are clear reasons for external expansion and all of them are valid except for the people who have external drives sitting on their desk making noise looking like a mess taking up space and making clutter. The people using drive arrays on different floors where not restricted from being able to do this in the classic Mac Pro. In fact I am not arguing that the new Mac Pro shouldn't have thunder bolt. It is a high end machine and even in the old form factor I would expect at least four of them to provide the option. For a pro device it is all about configurability. Taking options away is never good.
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Think this is more aimed at Mago than me? You can quote from more than one person by clicking on their Reply button too. It just adds it to what you've already written. You can also go to previous pages and it'll save a draft.
 
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Arron Rouse said:
I'm just worried that you're heading for a fall; that you'll get some lovely, lucrative rush job and your system will die in the middle of it. The world of editing is full of competition and gossips. One bad slip can end a business.
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I really appreciate and agree with many of your recent posts, but IMO, you're making way too much of this ", in the same way that many make too much of a Xeon and FirePro/Quadro for a "pro" workstations. You have to consider your audience.

If someone is an experienced builder (or has one on hand), there is virtually no downside to rolling your own for professional use. However, there generally reaches a point where the size of the business is too large for DIY builds to be practical.
 
pl595 said:
If you don't want to see these comments I suggest you direct your sighs for Arron.
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He came out of the gate a little aggressively, but jeepers, this is what I mean about escalation. You go nuclear at the slightest tip of a hat.

Does anyone really need to pull up dozens of examples of your posting behavior in that regards for you to get that?
 
ixxx69 said:
If someone is an experienced builder (or has one on hand), there is virtually no downside to rolling your own for professional use. However, there generally reaches a point where the size of the business is too large for DIY builds to be practical.
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I get what you're saying but wholeheartedly disagree for the simple reason that I trod that path. I used to roll my PCs for everything and loved every minute of doing it. But it cost me a lot of clients and lost me a lot of business. Sometimes I also lost whole weeks trying to fix some problem.

About ten years ago I counted up the man years I'd wasted fixing IRQ problems in Win3.11, replacing network cards, etc. And it really had set my work back years. So I bought a Dell for the office that came with next day on site maintenance. In 2009 I replaced it with the still going cMP. I haven't looked back since.

Business boomed because I wasn't under a desk for half the week. Now the only hand rolling I do is for games machines where downtime isn't important (except to me). So I understand the opinion that hand-building machines for professional use is OK but experience has taught me that it's not. With hindsight, it's amateurish. I know because I was that amateurish. :\
 
ixxx69 said:
He came out of the gate a little aggressively, but jeepers, this is what I mean about escalation. You go nuclear at the slightest tip of a hat.
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Three people made that observation. Despite that he continued his condescending behavior. As far as I'm concerned my response is an accurate comment on his behavior.

ixxx69 said:
Does anyone really need to pull up dozens of examples of your posting behavior in that regards for you to get that?
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LOL! Hypocrite.
 
Arron Rouse said:
I get what you're saying but wholeheartedly disagree for the simple reason that I trod that path. I used to roll my PCs for everything and loved every minute of doing it. But it cost me a lot of clients and lost me a lot of business. Sometimes I also lost whole weeks trying to fix some problem.

About ten years ago I counted up the man years I'd wasted fixing IRQ problems in Win3.11, replacing network cards, etc. And it really had set my work back years. So I bought a Dell for the office that came with next day on site maintenance. In 2009 I replaced it with the still going cMP. I haven't looked back since.

Business boomed because I wasn't under a desk for half the week. Now the only hand rolling I do is for games machines where downtime isn't important (except to me). So I understand the opinion that hand-building machines for professional use is OK but experience has taught me that it's not. With hindsight, it's amateurish. I know because I was that amateurish. :\
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Yeah, I went through W3.11 & coax network / IRQ hell myself in a small office. And I spent a lot of time under desks checking terminations. It was insane. But come on, that was literally 20 years ago.

Try getting on the phone with Dell support to get a GPU replaced, and they want to start by reinstalling Windows even though you know that the GPU needs to be replaced. I found that it's just faster and cheaper to order a new GPU myself and get it the next day (and I usually keep a few older parts like that laying around that can do in a pinch).

Or how many countless hours I've wasted on Dell phone support just trying to get a configuration order right that can be delivered in a reasonable amount of time (BTO's can sometimes take weeks).

Or have the Dell service guy come out with "parts", but what the Dell support guy on the phone diagnosed as bad memory is in fact a flaky PSU, which he didn't have on hand, so he then has to come out again.

Also, if you don't cheap out on parts, a DIY workstation is almost always more reliable than the **** Dell and HP put together, in my experience. On average, Dell Precision workstations always had more issues during their ~3 year lifetime than any PC I put together.

We could probably exchange stories from each side of that debate all day long. But it sounds like your company was a little to big for you to still be handling all the IT chores. And it's not for everyone. I think your point is worth considering, just that you were maybe being too emphatic about it and making too much of it.

Cheers!
 
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Arron Rouse said:
I've been the poster that @pl595 loves to hate ever since I pointed out that a machine he'd been trash-talking for a week beat the crap out of his favourite in some benchmark. I don't think you're going to change his mind :rolleyes:
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Yeah, I don't even try to engage him on actual product discussions anymore because he's most often irrational and abusive. He has absolutely zero self-awareness. Occasionally I'll try to point out the behavior, but it obviously falls on deaf ears.
 
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ixxx69 said:
Yeah, I don't even try to engage him anymore on actual product discussions anymore because he's most often irrational and abusive. He has absolutely zero self-awareness and he shows signs of paranoia. Occasionally I'll try to point out the behavior, but it obviously falls on deaf ears.
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Hypocrite.
 
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ixxx69 said:
Yeah, I went through W3.11 & coax network / IRQ hell myself in a small office. And I spent a lot of time under desks checking terminations. It was insane. But come on, that was literally 20 years ago.
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Sure, the IRQs were 1992 but the temptation to meddle was still there 10 years ago. The last hand-built office machine is still hidden in some cupboard around here somewhere. I shudder that it used to have my company accounts but was backed up only when I remembered. The hard drive died a few weeks after I sent everything to a new accountant. If it had died before, that could have got me in jail.

ixxx69 said:
Try getting on the phone with Dell support to get a GPU replaced, and they want to start by reinstalling Windows even though you know that the GPU needs to be replaced. I found that it's just faster and cheaper to order a new GPU myself and get it the next day (and I usually keep a few older parts like that laying around that can do in a pinch).

Or how many countless hours I've wasted on Dell phone support just trying to get a configuration order right that can be delivered in a reasonable amount of time (BTO's can sometimes take weeks).

Or have the Dell service guy come out with "parts", but what the Dell support guy on the phone diagnosed as bad memory is in fact a flaky PSU, which he didn't have on hand, so he then has to come out again.
Click to expand...

Been there with Dell support. That's why I bought the cMP.

ixxx69 said:
Also, if you don't cheap out on parts, a DIY workstation is almost always more reliable than the **** Dell and HP put together, in my experience. On average, Dell Precision workstations always had more issues during their ~3 year lifetime than any PC I put together.
Click to expand...

Kinda sorta. I've found that PSUs in particular have random reliability no matter how much I spend. I've had expensive ones pop after a few months and cheap ones last until their connectors didn't fit the latest stuff.

ixxx69 said:
We could probably exchange stories from each side of that debate all day long. But it sounds like your company was a little to big for you to still be handling all the IT chores. And it's not for everyone. I think your point is worth considering, just that you were maybe being too emphatic about it and making too much of it.

Cheers!
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Yup on the stories but nope on the growth -- the company grew because I stopped desk diving and copied what my professional/corporate customers were doing. I was a terrible amateur before that and have no idea why my customers put up with such unreliable service.

Hope that you're having a good day :)
 
ixxx69 said:
I really appreciate and agree with many of your recent posts, but IMO, you're making way too much of this ", in the same way that many make too much of a Xeon and FirePro/Quadro for a "pro" workstations. You have to consider your audience.

If someone is an experienced builder (or has one on hand), there is virtually no downside to rolling your own for professional use. However, there generally reaches a point where the size of the business is too large for DIY builds to be practical.
Click to expand...
I'm just me. I'm an employee during the day. I work remotely when coding and not at client job sites.

I went to school for Graphic Design and Interactive Design. It's somewhere between prosumer and professional. My apps make money but it isn't enough to eclipse my salary yet.

I don't think I need to worry about not being able to do my work. If the main machine goes down from anything but the drives I can move the array back into my previous main machine which is mothballed in the closet. If the drives fail I can go buy four more from Best Buy and have the machine back up in a hour.

I keep projects backed up on their own 64GB SD cards nightly.These SD cards are dirt cheap and allows for me to keep my projects compartmentalized.

So far this machine has been like a rock. Before starting production work with it I ran burn in tests and after it passed 24 hours of PI calculations and intels extreme processor burn in program for another day I feel it is a reliable machine. If it was going to fail it would have burned up during 48 hours straight of max CPU, and memory stress tests. The temps never get past 90C anywhere in the machine. :D I trust it a hell of a lot more then I trust a machine that goes above 90C to keep quite and then sounds like a jet trying to maintain 95C and then even throttles the processor. I don't know first hand with the nMP but the MacMini and iMac run very hot. If I was a betting person I would say one of them would flame out before my machine. ;)
 
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I began IT work on 1995 but not on Windows but on SCO Unix V I maintained the code for an health care organization it lasted me few years then Wincrap beyond any logic become absolutely dominant and distinctly have to learn program this crap (I was entitled on Unix and the original Mac OS), I spent about 8 years on M$ he'll before returning to Unix on the oil industry, my last personal pc running wincrap was an laptop from Hell oops I meant to say Dell, sorry, then I was captured by OSX my first Mac was an iMac with DVD I don't remember now exactly, then I got a MacBook and now I have a mini a nMP and other two iMac one retina one iMac 21 non retina both on my business and my rMBP which mostly is my home computer, plus an 200$ hp laptop I use to experiment on electronics (I'm arduino/raspberry hobbyist and illegal unregistered rebel quad copter pilot/developer lol ), this laptop is dual boot wincrap 10/Ubuntu, sometimes I need wincrap since some flashing tools are windows only.

My current business has little time do with my previous occupations, since I got independent I never programmed or either maintain some system, I keep more less current on OSX programming but since 10yr ago I don't write a line of code for Windows or Linux (except raspberry as hobbyist, don't account as pro).
Hopefully don't need to run again a tool on Windows.
 
Mago said:
I began IT work on 1995 but not on Windows but on SCO Unix V I maintained the code for an health care organization it lasted me few years then Wincrap beyond any logic become absolutely dominant and distinctly have to learn program this crap (I was entitled on Unix and the original Mac OS), I spent about 8 years on M$ he'll before returning to Unix on the oil industry, my last personal pc running wincrap was an laptop from Hell oops I meant to say Dell, sorry, then I was captured by OSX my first Mac was an iMac with DVD I don't remember now exactly, then I got a MacBook and now I have a mini a nMP and other two iMac one retina one iMac 21 non retina both on my business and my rMBP which mostly is my home computer, plus an 200$ hp laptop I use to experiment on electronics (I'm arduino/raspberry hobbyist and illegal unregistered rebel quad copter pilot/developer lol ), this laptop is dual boot wincrap 10/Ubuntu, sometimes I need wincrap since some flashing tools are windows only.

My current business has little time do with my previous occupations, since I got independent I never programmed or either maintain some system, I keep more less current on OSX programming but since 10yr ago I don't write a line of code for Windows or Linux (except raspberry as hobbyist, don't account as pro).
Hopefully don't need to run again a tool on Windows.
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Your fanboyism is showing.
Keep in mind that without Microsoft there probably wouldn't be an Apple today.
 
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This thread moves very fast. I happened to see your post a bit ago.

Arron Rouse said:
Not in the slightest. If anything, I'm just worried that you're heading for a fall; that you'll get some lovely, lucrative rush job and your system will die in the middle of it. The world of editing is full of competition and gossips. One bad slip can end a business.
Click to expand...

I understand where you're coming from. A large business changes things extensively. If presented with the choice of Apple or Dell/HP/all the rest of them I would elect for Apple.


Arron Rouse said:
I definitely agree about it being outdated. The fact that the 5k iMac kicks its butt is embarrassing to say the least. But to me they're all just tools so, if my cMP dies, it might get replaced by an iMac. (Unlikely as I use a lot of VMs but not impossible.)
Click to expand...
Maybe they will update the Mac Pro with new processors and DDR4 soon. With any luck they will move to nVidia as well. God willing maybe they might even go back to the basics but I won't hold my breath.
 
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Daisy81 said:
This thread moves very fast. I happened to see your post a bit ago.



I understand where you're coming from. A large business changes things extensively. If presented with the choice of Apple or Dell/HP/all the rest of them I would elect for Apple.



Maybe they will update the Mac Pro with new processors and DDR4 soon. With any luck they will move to nVidia as well. God willing maybe they might even go back to the basics but I won't hold my breath.
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There is no indication on a form factor revision beyond new ports arrangements.

Whatever one thing I really want is an Retina Cinema Display, but on tb2 is not possible on a single link, and the only Mac with usb-c and dp1.2 is the retina MacBook which is the crappier performer unlikely to drive nothing beyond 3K.
So thus retina cinema display is tied to the launch of some Macs with usb-c/tb3, thus an new interaction of Macs is coming soon, from revised iMac to new (all new?) Mac mini and Mac Pro s.

This retina cinema display is long due.
 
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Daisy81 said:
I don't think I need to worry about not being able to do my work. If the main machine goes down from anything but the drives I can move the array back into my previous main machine which is mothballed in the closet.
Click to expand...

You know the data on the RAID won't survive that move unless the old machine has the same RAID controller, right?
 
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