MP 7,1 Is the new Mac Pro too expensive? [MERGED]

[Ph.D.]

The thing about computer prices is that there will always be budget models and there will always be expensive models, and everything in-between.

It may be rational to say that the mMP is too expensive for browsing YouTube for most people (but not all!) and pathetically under-powered for the Department of Energy's supercomputer programs.

In the end, the answer lays in your wallet, your needs, and your heart, and not those of other people.

 

[ct2k7]

The thing about computer prices is that there will always be budget models and there will always be expensive models, and everything in-between.

It may be rational to say that the mMP is too expensive for browsing YouTube for most people (but not all!) and pathetically under-powered for the Department of Energy's supercomputer programs.

In the end, the answer lays in your wallet, your needs, and your heart, and not those of other people.

To be fair... you’ll need the MP to use Chrome to browse YouTube

 

[AidenShaw]

To be fair... you’ll need the MP to use Chrome to browse YouTube

Good warning. Doesn't affect me, because I haven't installed that Google spyware on any of my systems.

 

[nutritious]

Basically, Apple did not want to sell this machine too cheap because they wanted to charge you for lost profit from having an expandable system even if you get the base model. Basically, this is Apple being greedy.

Because of this, once my iPhone contract is up, I am ditching all things Apple. Windows PC, google pixel phone. It's done. I will not support Apple again till a product guy with real empathy for the user takes over. Tim is just a numbers man.

 

[Zellio]

To be fair... you’ll need the MP to use Chrome to browse YouTube

Or use firefox, safari, edge, or gasp! opera. Anything that allows you to install extensions...

 

[tommy chen]

I think that says it all +g*

 

[StuAff]

I think that says it all +g*

View attachment 841893

Now, that gentleman made some very good points in his thread on the subject, but I politely disagreed with that part. I'm sure many would. I tweeted him some counterpoints last night. 'If you want one at home, you are an idiot'? I'm an idiot, then. If I buy a 2019/2020 MP- and it's a big if....
It will be a serious capital investment for me, just as it would for a professional. It can't pay its way for me, I must find a way to pay for it- in hours worked, savings made elsewhere, and long-term use. Enthusiasts want longevity, reliability and value for money just as much as a pro. And that value doesn't mean two, three, four, five years of use, perhaps a decade or longer, still as a worthwhile tool and 'daily driver'. My 2006 MP is still going strong, let alone my 2009 (bought s/h 2013). An MP delivers more performance now than a Mini ever could, in many respects. A Mini a few years down the line (if Apple delivers worthwhile timely updates...) will still be catching up to that MP you'll be able to buy shortly. You have the hardware to use and enjoy, now. The leisure time saving/maximisation benefits, now, not later. Less cable spaghetti for expansion/upgrades, and more options for those extras. Same with iMac, same with iMac Pro. Great systems, but assorted compromises, and a screen you might not want or need. And not upgradeable internally without either a friendly technician or very careful hands. Hackintosh? An option, but a lot of potential if not real hassles. Windows.....not as a sole OS, thank you.

So If I buy an MP- and it will be a big investment in a tool, not an ‘toy’- it must do its jobs for a decade or more. And it will. I get to make light work of anything I’m likely to do with it today. It can grow and meet future needs without the same compromises. Buying one MP, or two or three cheaper systems, with or without upgrades, over the same period of ownership…certainly not a clear-cut choice, but a more than viable alternative, if you can stomach the upfront cost.

 

[tommy chen]

misunderstand not home > work or home > gaming, mail, and so on

 

[ct2k7]

What if my work is at home?
Mint seriousky, I think he’s crudely putting the target market out there

 

[mode11]

As it is I have three options on where to go next.

1 Build a threadripper / core i9 machine and go with windows (to hell with apple)
2 Fully loaded mac mini with an vega 64 in a egpu or
3 Bite the bullet, wait to next year while I save another 4k up and get the base 7.1

Mind you still neeed to wait anyway to see really how upgadeable the beast really is
Will the cpu really be upgradable or locked in with some custom apple firmware ?
Can I change the ssd blades for bigger ones ?
Alot will be answered for me when ifixit get hold of a 7.1

Sorry I might sound a little paranoid but my next decision comming is a big one.

The mini + eGPU would certainly be a workable solution, but it's like using a permanently desk-bound laptop as your main machine. You're paying a premium for an unnecessarily small enclosure, then putting up with the compromises in terms of CPU cooling and internal expansion. Whereas a tower can effortlessly run high multi-core turbos, the mini will always need to balance thermals, power etc. GPU enclosures are expensive, and external HDDs create clutter; the whole lot is also less straightforward to put under a desk than a tower.

The MP doesn't seem like the sort of thing one should save a long time for. It's wildly overpriced and aimed corporations (q.v. the £1000 monitor stand!). I would imagine the CPU can be upgraded - it should just be an off the shelf Xeon - but it will take a while for 18+ core chips to come down in price. As for the SSDs - can the similar ones in the iMac Pro be upgraded? Does Apple or anyone else sell them? They are not standard M.2 drives.

 

[ct2k7]

The mini + eGPU would certainly be a workable solution, but it's like using a permanently desk-bound laptop as your main machine. You're paying a premium for an unnecessarily small enclosure, then putting up with the compromises in terms of CPU cooling and internal expansion. Whereas a tower can effortlessly run high multi-core turbos, the mini will always need to balance thermals, power etc. GPU enclosures are expensive, and external HDDs create clutter; the whole lot is also less straightforward to put under a desk than a tower.

The MP doesn't seem like the sort of thing you should save up for. It's wildly overpriced and aimed corporations (q.v. the £1000 monitor stand!). I would imagine the CPU can be upgraded - it should just be an off the shelf Xeon - but it will take a while for 18+ core chips to come down in price. As for the SSDs - can the similar ones in the iMac Pro be upgraded? Does Apple or anyone else sell them? They are not standard M.2 drives.

They could do what that the iMac Pro does for CPU upgrade: put a void sticker. That would annoy a portion of MP owners, though.

In terms of SSD, there should be SSD kits available
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The mini + eGPU would certainly be a workable solution, but it's like using a permanently desk-bound laptop as your main machine. You're paying a premium for an unnecessarily small enclosure, then putting up with the compromises in terms of CPU cooling and internal expansion. Whereas a tower can effortlessly run high multi-core turbos, the mini will always need to balance thermals, power etc. GPU enclosures are expensive, and external HDDs create clutter; the whole lot is also less straightforward to put under a desk than a tower.

The MP doesn't seem like the sort of thing you should save up for. It's wildly overpriced and aimed corporations (q.v. the £1000 monitor stand!). I would imagine the CPU can be upgraded - it should just be an off the shelf Xeon - but it will take a while for 18+ core chips to come down in price. As for the SSDs - can the similar ones in the iMac Pro be upgraded? Does Apple or anyone else sell them? They are not standard M.2 drives.

They could do what that the iMac Pro does for CPU upgrade: put a void sticker. That would annoy a portion of MP owners, though.

In terms of SSD, there should be SSD kits available

 

[tommy chen]

What if my work is at home?
Mint seriousky, I think he’s crudely putting the target market out there

so you are fine +g*

 

[gazzared]

Too much noise about the monitor stand which Apple could have avoided by just selling it complete. Let’s be honest, if you can buy one of these, https://www.red.com/dsmc2-side-handle then $999 for the stand is just another incidental expense.

 

[pl1984]

Basically, Apple did not want to sell this machine too cheap because they wanted to charge you for lost profit from having an expandable system even if you get the base model. Basically, this is Apple being greedy.

Because of this, once my iPhone contract is up, I am ditching all things Apple. Windows PC, google pixel phone. It's done. I will not support Apple again till a product guy with real empathy for the user takes over. Tim is just a numbers man.

I disagree. There is going to be a certain amount of "fixed" cost with every Mac Pro they manufacture. The base model has a lot of things (PCIe slots, high wattage power supply, chassis, etc.) which are common to every Mac Pro (at least I assume so).

When the 6,1 was released I made the argument it lacked a several things (PCIe slots, high wattage power supply, etc.) and therefore Apple was able to manufacture a smaller system for the same price as their previous systems.

All in all I think Apple priced the entry level reasonably well even if it has a pathetic 256GB SSD.

 

[stylinexpat]

This is quite funny

 

[mode11]

This is quite funny

It’s hilarious!

 

[Sharky II]

The finance bit was great... and true!

 

[macguru9999]

Here is the competitor to the new mac pro, and when you watch the video you can see why apple needed to do what it did. You can spend 100k on ram upgrades for these dell workstations... makes apple look quite reasonable !!

https://www.dell.com/en-au/work/sho...r/spd/precision-7920-workstation/on7920wt04au

 

[corelle]

Here is the competitor to the new mac pro, and when you watch the video you can see why apple needed to do what it did. You can spend 100k on ram upgrades for these dell workstations... makes apple look quite reasonable !!

https://www.dell.com/en-au/work/sho...r/spd/precision-7920-workstation/on7920wt04au

I’m waiting HITLER’s react.

 

[barmann]

I see lot of people talking about the fact that this Mac Pro is not for meant for an average user and most of the people discussing the price are the one who are not gonna buy it anyway. I think that's true, but I also think that the Mac Pro used to be a computer that (surprisingly) quite lot of people could afford. At least the base configuration. You paid like $3000 + $1000 for a monitor and you got a good computer. Not the best value for the money in terms of specs, but a good upgradable computer.

But the specs of the current base $6000 MP are not good. You can clearly see they have added like $2000 to the price just to not ruin the iMac Pro sales. They don't wanted to create modular Mac, so they launched an overpriced base configuration and the people who are looking for a $4000-6000 Mac (which is the price the creatives around me are willing to pay for a good computer) rather buy non-modular iMac Pro, because it's a better value in that price range. This Mac Pro is a computer for those who are gonna spend $10000+, because that will be the min. price for a "usable" configuration. I don't say the base one is not usable, but for half the price you can get similary powerful iMac.

So yes, it's expensive.

Amen .

The issue with the nMP is that it is - in theory - very affordable, very flexible, basically everything the classic MP was . It's a mid-range tower PC .

But Apple went and decided to charge more than what it is worth, to position it in a market segment that probably doesn't even exist .
And to protect the top-spec iMac Pros, for which there definitely is no market segment .

 

[BB8]

The thing about computer prices is that there will always be budget models and there will always be expensive models, and everything in-between.

Seems to me that all the complaining is because there is actually very little in between. You either work professionally somewhere that can afford to dump corporate money on a problem, or you get an iMac (AIO) or Mac Mini, both of which come with their own set of problems.

 

[amedias]

Amen .
to position it in a market segment that probably doesn't even exist .
...iMac Pros, for which there definitely is no market segment .

Is this speculation or do you have access to sales figures?

I'm curious to know how many iMac Pros Apple actually has sold as it is a slightly odd product but I wouldn't be surprised if they've sold a fair few.

As for the new Mac Pro, the market definitely exists, it just remains to be seen whether they sell many compared to their competitors offerings.

 

[barmann]

Is this speculation or do you have access to sales figures?

I'm curious to know how many iMac Pros Apple actually has sold as it is a slightly odd product but I wouldn't be surprised if they've sold a fair few.

Funny you should ask - Apple doesn't release sales figures , do they ?
Only what is required by law, and not even quite that .

As for selling iMPs, I'm sure they sell well . The base configuration and maybe a few 1 tier above that .
How do I know ? I have a gift, some call it rational thought ...

 

[amedias]

Well that’s why I was asking, trying to work out if you knew or just guessing, cos even an educated guess is still a guess.

Claiming no market segment exists for machines that do sell (well?) would be somewhat of a paradox.

 

[filterdecay]

Here is the competitor to the new mac pro, and when you watch the video you can see why apple needed to do what it did. You can spend 100k on ram upgrades for these dell workstations... makes apple look quite reasonable !!

https://www.dell.com/en-au/work/sho...r/spd/precision-7920-workstation/on7920wt04au

isnt it apples fault in the first place that they had to look to dell to find a computer? I mean we are talking about a company that left the pros to rot on the vine while they thermal throttled their way to black aluminum minimal designs. At this point apples knows anyone left on a old macpro is there because for whatever reason they have to be on osx. And they are gonna milk that whale for all they are worth. That tower starts at 3k btw.

Im only mad because I am one of those whales that is gonna have to pay apple 8k for a computer (after cpu upgrade). Yes I get to write it off. No that doesnt mean its free.