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MP 7,1 Is the new Mac Pro too niche?
- Thread starter maflynn
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You really should stop saying this. In fact, the vast majority of desktop seeking professionals would want such a system. Desktops have been on a downward trend for over a decade, but they'll still sell around 90 million of them this year. The vast majority of those are budget desktops, but tens of millions are mid to higher range.
The vast majority of creative professionals who want a desktop are basically buying "gaming" machines. All the top creative suites, AEC software, software development, web development, software development, etc. works best on such hardware.
It's the Dells and HP's of the world that are only too glad to push this narrative that you need Xeons, ECC & Quadros to get any professional work done. Separate you from your money.
The vast majority of desktops are budget desktops? Where did you get that information from? As to the 90 million figure it sounds impressive till you add the fact that it was over 150 million just nine years ago.
Also the "vast majority of desktop seeking professionals". I think the key words there are desktop seeking. The question is how many are desktop seeking
Source? OK:
www.dell.com
www.hp.com
www.microcenter.com
etc.
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In your opinion do you think Apple will sell 90 million 7,1 Mac Pros?
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Fixed, what a mess that was!
Calling for documentation is always a safe thing, but it's a virtual law of the universe that the majority of anything is smaller/lower than the biggest/highest. The vast majority of life on the earth are microbes and such, the majority of mobile phones are lower-end ones, and so on.
This "law" is so widely acknowledged that predictions about life on other planets include that, on average, their planets will be smaller than ours and their organisms will be smaller than we are.
That's about like me saying jumbo jets are the top selling airplane and when you ask for a source I just list airplane makers websites. I guess if you can't provide a source just put a random link LOL
I run a studio and do this for a living. So I can't give you statistics, just my daily experiences from audio post production.
If you check http://duc.avid.com/ you will find people running Pro Tools on windows, but like I said I've never been to a studio nor do I know a colleague whatsoever who is using windows. Music is a different thing, I have a friend with a music studio and he uses Cubase on windows.
The update issues and the external drive / network incompatibilities sometimes cause trouble with Media Composer on Windows, especially if exported later via AAF to Pro Tools.
I'm working a lot with actors and they're not always patient, or let's says they usually have a tight schedule, so stability of our systems is crucial. Of course we have crashes but if a system crashes more then once in a week or two, something is wrong with the configuration. You don't upgrade during a production and you don't install every update that comes immediately.
It started with digidesign providing Pro Tools exclusively for Mac and since then people upgraded their hard- and software over the years.
Some releases were awesome, some were just frustrating. I don't like everything Apple/Avid does, but in the end it always worked out. There is absolutely no reason for me to ever even think about windows.
As I stated before, I like the new Mac Pro and I definitely like that apple is still committed the pro community.
Although I'm not gonna buy one this year. An audio edit suite runs perfectly fine with a cMP 5,1 a nMP 6,1 or the new Mac mini. Do I want one? Yes! Do I need one? No. Simple as that.
I understand the frustration of freelancers, because it's always harder with investments for them. But I think the discussion suffers from a lack of pragmatism and comes with an excessive amount of misguided rage.
Put it into something productive.
CIFS and SMB are the same thing, under two different names.
https://www.varonis.com/blog/cifs-vs-smb/
All of those links point to manufacturers are selling desktop systems. Most of which a gamer wouldn't purchase.
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That was an awful lot of wording to say "No, I don't".
No need to get personal, I admitted that I can't give you the proof you asked for in my second sentence. Yet this DAW is my daily business so I might know what I'm talking about. Do you ask the pilot for hard facts about the airplane model every time you fly?
https://www.avid.com/pro-tools-first
Feel free to make your own experience on macOS and Windows.
If you know what you're talking about then you can provide supporting evidence. Otherwise your claim is nothing more than opinion. As for your link I didn't see it providing anything to support your claim of "still works more reliable on macOS". If you can't support this statement with fact just say so.
And Apple can only manage to design one motherboard in 6 years, right?
There's a lot of back & forth Mac this or PC that preferences being thrown around on this thread so I'll give my two cents on the matter based on my personal experience of what being at least one type of "pro" computer user is like.
Most of the high end pro software has both a Mac & Windows version. (Except for Apple specific software..FC). Using that software is IDENTICAL on both platforms except for the modifier keys used. The BIGGEST difference (really the only significant difference) is you're using your pinky finger instead of your thumb on the keyboard to toggle the Control vs Command key. That's it.
Saving to directories (folders) is the same, and jumping to other apps is the same too.
The only real significant difference is the look of the OS windows of Mac vs PC but they're both very similar but slightly different.
In the overall scheme of things, the difference is insignificant minutiae.
When you've got a project you're working on, 99% of the time you're living inside that app, working on whatever it is you're doing. If it was running in a Mac or PC you'd be hard to tell the difference. They're basically identical. The other 1% of the time you're either looking through folders finding stuff, or saving stuff to folders. It's the same on either platform, it just looks a bit different.
My last job had me working on a Windows PC at work all day (3D stuff and graphics stuff and layout stuff and web stuff) and I had Mac versions of all the software on my personal Mac at home too. I'd switch between the two over the weekend (yes -had to work on weekends too). The difference between switching back & forth between Mac & PC constantly was pretty seamless.... Except I have to admit that having to use your pinky finger on a PC on the control key is just freaking clutzy compared to the thumb on the Command key on the Mac.
In the end I DID have a preference between using a Mac or PC. I preferred my Mac because I had so much ingrained muscle memory using my thumb instead of my pinky, that it was second nature. Using a PC I always had to consciously think to use my pinky which I felt slowed me down a few milliseconds. Also the Mac looked a little prettier.
But that's it. Mac & PC are virtually identical when you're actually using them with "pro" software.
And soooooo.....
Basically what you're getting (what I'd be getting) if purchasing a new 2019 $$$$ MacPro is the privilege to use my thumb instead of my pinky.
How many thousands of dollars is that worth?
For me, although I preferred the "thumb modifier" experience, the MOST important quality for a computer for me (back then) was speed. It was all about speed (or slowness really) and I would have used a PC exclusively if it was faster than my Mac.
Most of the high end pro software has both a Mac & Windows version. (Except for Apple specific software..FC). Using that software is IDENTICAL on both platforms except for the modifier keys used. The BIGGEST difference (really the only significant difference) is you're using your pinky finger instead of your thumb on the keyboard to toggle the Control vs Command key. That's it.
Saving to directories (folders) is the same, and jumping to other apps is the same too.
The only real significant difference is the look of the OS windows of Mac vs PC but they're both very similar but slightly different.
In the overall scheme of things, the difference is insignificant minutiae.
When you've got a project you're working on, 99% of the time you're living inside that app, working on whatever it is you're doing. If it was running in a Mac or PC you'd be hard to tell the difference. They're basically identical. The other 1% of the time you're either looking through folders finding stuff, or saving stuff to folders. It's the same on either platform, it just looks a bit different.
My last job had me working on a Windows PC at work all day (3D stuff and graphics stuff and layout stuff and web stuff) and I had Mac versions of all the software on my personal Mac at home too. I'd switch between the two over the weekend (yes -had to work on weekends too). The difference between switching back & forth between Mac & PC constantly was pretty seamless.... Except I have to admit that having to use your pinky finger on a PC on the control key is just freaking clutzy compared to the thumb on the Command key on the Mac.
In the end I DID have a preference between using a Mac or PC. I preferred my Mac because I had so much ingrained muscle memory using my thumb instead of my pinky, that it was second nature. Using a PC I always had to consciously think to use my pinky which I felt slowed me down a few milliseconds. Also the Mac looked a little prettier.
But that's it. Mac & PC are virtually identical when you're actually using them with "pro" software.
And soooooo.....
Basically what you're getting (what I'd be getting) if purchasing a new 2019 $$$$ MacPro is the privilege to use my thumb instead of my pinky.
How many thousands of dollars is that worth?
For me, although I preferred the "thumb modifier" experience, the MOST important quality for a computer for me (back then) was speed. It was all about speed (or slowness really) and I would have used a PC exclusively if it was faster than my Mac.
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The silliest part is that people defend this. Motherboards are easy, not the Apollo mission.
Yes.
Seriously.
I mean it.
I really mean it.
ps: I'm not sure if you're defending it, or pointing out how silly it is.
Misguided and confused on core functions, but learning. Hoping to find a worthy task, so I could justify buying this machine. Alas, it's back to windows. LOL a2
Speaking of separating you from your money... Dell workstations start at $600 (Precision 3630 Tower). Apple workstations start at $6000. That's the reason nobody is complaining about the price of Dell Precision 7920 (starting price $6229).
Definitely not defending it.The silliest part is that people defend this. Motherboards are easy, not the Apollo mission.
ps: I'm not sure if you're defending it, or pointing out how silly it is.
But it’s Apple, and they do shoehorn customers into product segments with little to offers those on the border.
You're the one who accused me of being a fanboy, remember?
The sell the imac at a $400 premium over a similarly equipped Dell AIO. You really think Apple couldn't build a $4K desktop computer sans monitor and not make a huge profit?
It's too bad Apple is no longer a trillion dollar company anymore. At $875 billion we'll just have to accept Apple doesn't have the resources to produce a mid-range, headless, expandable Macintosh.
Sure they don’t have too...but hey...it’s apple. It’s apple with os x. I was angry as hell with 2013 model but I kept waiting. Time has arrived.
The vast majority of cars sold are high end sports cars.
Here's my sources. Links to companies that sell high end sports cars.
https://www.ferrari.com/
https://www.porsche.com
https://www.lamborghini.com
That's exactly what you did by saying the vast majority of desktops are budget desktops then post a link of random computer manufacturers that sell budget desktops.
@maflynn's question is reasonable.
I've tried to avoid a knee-jerk reaction to the new MP announcement, but now after a little time pondering it, I'm just left feeling sad that the dream of an affordable upgradeable Mac does not seem like it is going to happen again. As Windows is simply not a viable/tolerable option for me, this forces me to start planning for a switch to something like System76.
I'm sure Apple (or anyone else) doesn't really care about that sentiment, but it's sad because it doesn't have to be that way. With a modest investment and course correction, I believe Apple could pretty easily become the dominant force in desktop computing. I can't understand why they seem to have no interest in doing that, but oh well.
I've tried to avoid a knee-jerk reaction to the new MP announcement, but now after a little time pondering it, I'm just left feeling sad that the dream of an affordable upgradeable Mac does not seem like it is going to happen again. As Windows is simply not a viable/tolerable option for me, this forces me to start planning for a switch to something like System76.
I'm sure Apple (or anyone else) doesn't really care about that sentiment, but it's sad because it doesn't have to be that way. With a modest investment and course correction, I believe Apple could pretty easily become the dominant force in desktop computing. I can't understand why they seem to have no interest in doing that, but oh well.
That is mostly my take on it all as well.
Many years ago now I’d looked at getting a souped up Cheesegrater as the iMac route wasn’t for me (talking back in 2012 or so) but ultimately I got into doing a Hackintosh since I had mostly compatible parts on my gaming PC at the time.
That led me to making several Hacks and that’s what I use today.
I’d long hoped there’d be a “real” Mac Pro that was expandable that I could buy and use for many years and expand upon — and then they release this machine.
I’m just so frustrated because I have no need for Xeon’s (prefer the normal chips for gaming on Win side) and overall the starting point is just astronomically high in price.
I just don’t understand why we can’t have a “Mac Mini Pro” that allows for some SSD/RAM/GPU internal upgrades over time. Something halfway between the Mini and this new Pro would be ideal.
I really don’t believe it would crater iMac sales or anything - it’s just a different buyer altogether.
The iMac’s are amazing for what they are, but I don’t want something so sealed and appliance like.
And so I guess I’ll just keep running my Hack.
Honestly, the only thing I hate about the Hack lifestyle right now is the need to stay tied to AMD GPU’s, which really holds me back on the gaming side (which is a good 40% of my desktop PC usage).