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barondebxl

macrumors 6502a
Sep 21, 2013
736
501
That's a passive-aggressive argument. ANYTHING is our choice to make. I want to live in a permanent structure, so I'm forced to take one with a door. If I would strongly prefer to enter by climbing through a window and would rather not have a door, I don't have to buy or rent a home, that's my choice to make. I could just shelter under a tree. They don't have doors.

So anyway, yes, we're forced by Apple, and by phone manufacturers in general, into lots of things. At some point perhaps it gets nit-picky, sure. Let's just take the example at hand:

(1) I would like to own a smartphone. This is a perfectly reasonable thing to want. They're very useful.
(1.a) I would like to own a smartphone that runs on iOS. This is also a reasonable thing to want. It's also reasonable to want one that runs on Android. It's reasonable to have a preference. But now I'm forced to buy one from a particular vendor.
(1.a.i) I would like to own a smartphone that runs on iOS that [feels comfortable to hold or is of a certain weight or has a powerful processor or has a camera that can do X or anything]. Now we're really forced. I have to buy a phone from Apple, and I have the model or models that fit the description.


Or I could just choose to stick with my 5c which I did, and fortunately they came out with the SE, and I bought that instead of a 6S. At that point I could still upgrade my hardware without having to abandon the size. I wasn't forced in that way at the time. And though I'd been replacing my phone every couple of years to get the newer features, when the 7 and 8 came out I would have been forced to get the larger phone in order to get some of the newer features. I would have loved to have the more advanced camera, for example. But to get it (on a smartphone that runs iOS) I had to buy the larger phone, and at that point I made a choice to not do so. I stuck with the SE, and gave up the other things.


This is a self-evident statement, and not limited to phones. Besides it supports my point: if I want to buy [a product] and [a product] doesn't come exactly as I want it then of course I make a choice: live without [a product] or decide I would rather not live without [a product] and be forced to buy it as it is.


And that's right. Had Apple not offered anything larger than the 5 series, then you WOULD have been forced to buy it if staying on iOS was important to you. You wouldn't just have SAID it, you would have been. And I thought the 4S was wonderful. I think it's the height of the iPhone's design history: perfect size, perfect weight, attractive design; and I was a little put out by the new 4-inch size. But when the time came to upgrade I was forced to buy the larger size.

So I held out for four years with my SE. Didn't buy two years ago, made that choice you're on about. Now I'm another two years down the line. Important to me to stay on iOS, I consider it very worth my while to stay with new enough hardware to maintain support for a few years, so it's time to upgrade now. It's only going to get worse: I expect the SE to be the last phone with a home button. I like the home button. So four years from now, when I expect I'll be wanting to upgrade again, there will be more things I am forced to do.


*rolls eyes*


In this case, the case of purchasing an iPhone, there are lots of people that don't feel this way. There are lots that do. I grant that I expect that there are more in the first group than in the second, but there are still lots. There are those that feel forced to buy the SE because of the things it IS (smaller than the other new phones, home button), and there are those that feel forced to buy the SE because of the things it ISN'T (expensive, as large as the other phones, Face ID). You can say "limited by the choices" instead of "forced" if that goes down easier.

Bro you wrote all of this and said absolutely nothing, just for the sake or responding? You could have summed it up in one paragraph or less.

The point is simple, you do not get forced down anything it’s just that simple. A manufacturer makes a product, releases it to the public and you decide whether you wanna get it or not, it really is that simple.

Going bigger can be beneficial to the company and the users. Correct me if I’m wrong but apple went from a 5s which is a 4 inch display to a 6 and 6 plus which are 4.7 inch and 5.5 inch. Those models are the best selling iPhones of all time,That design is at least.

Reason why I called your “forcing down” point silly is because it absorbs is. Whatever model they release someone will feel like it doesn’t suit them (too big, too small, too wide, too light, too heavy etc..) it’s just silly to think like that you understand that right?
 

lkalliance

macrumors 65816
Jul 17, 2015
1,416
4,539
Bro you wrote all of this and said absolutely nothing, just for the sake or responding? You could have summed it up in one paragraph or less.

The point is simple, you do not get forced down anything it’s just that simple. A manufacturer makes a product, releases it to the public and you decide whether you wanna get it or not, it really is that simple.

Going bigger can be beneficial to the company and the users. Correct me if I’m wrong but apple went from a 5s which is a 4 inch display to a 6 and 6 plus which are 4.7 inch and 5.5 inch. Those models are the best selling iPhones of all time,That design is at least.

Reason why I called your “forcing down” point silly is because it absorbs is. Whatever model they release someone will feel like it doesn’t suit them (too big, too small, too wide, too light, too heavy etc..) it’s just silly to think like that you understand that right?
If you want something and that something involves trade-offs, then yes you are forced to accept those trade-offs if you choose to buy it. I can't buy an iPhone with the latest chip in a 4-inch size. That is a trade-off. I can choose not to buy it if it's that important to me, but whether I buy it or not I am forced to buy a larger iPhone if I want the latest chip.
 
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barondebxl

macrumors 6502a
Sep 21, 2013
736
501
If you want something and that something involves trade-offs, then yes you are forced to accept those trade-offs if you choose to buy it. I can't buy an iPhone with the latest chip in a 4-inch size. That is a trade-off. I can choose not to buy it if it's that important to me, but whether I buy it or not I am forced to buy a larger iPhone if I want the latest chip.

You can’t buy an iPhone 4 inch with the latest chip because it doesn’t exist.

I want a foldable iPhone but I can’t buy it cause it doesn’t exist. Does that mean I’m being forced to buy a XS or any other iPhone instead? Of course not. That’s what I mean by it being a silly argument.
 

lkalliance

macrumors 65816
Jul 17, 2015
1,416
4,539
You can’t buy an iPhone 4 inch with the latest chip because it doesn’t exist.

I want a foldable iPhone but I can’t buy it cause it doesn’t exist. Does that mean I’m being forced to buy a XS or any other iPhone instead? Of course not. That’s what I mean by it being a silly argument.
Of course you are. You want to buy an iPhone, you're forced to buy one that's not foldable. And one that is not 5G. And one that does not have a snapdragon processor, if that's important to you.


Anyway, it's been fun, apologies to the OP for hijacking the thread with this.
 

barondebxl

macrumors 6502a
Sep 21, 2013
736
501
Of course you are. You want to buy an iPhone, you're forced to buy one that's not foldable. And one that is not 5G. And one that does not have a snapdragon processor, if that's important to you.


Anyway, it's been fun, apologies to the OP for hijacking the thread with this.

Yeah I totally disagree but back on topic
 
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The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,310
25,457
Wales, United Kingdom
Question is who told them they are wrong? I’ve said in my opinion clearly and obviously I don’t speak for everyone now do I? You’re not saying anything new. Every time someone speaks about an iPhone it’s always from their perspective.

I’m primarily an android user, I bought the XS as a secondary phone to my Galaxy S 10. I enjoy both platforms and I feel like if I’m gonna spend $400 plus taxes then I might as well get something they I feel like I’d worth that much to me hence why I bought a xs instead of an SE.

It was clear you were stating your opinion, I wasn’t suggested you were not, just speaking generally.

I only use iOS myself, no idea about Android these days as I don’t really need to know. Your opinion is as valid as others and if I was getting a second iPhone I’d probably get an SE2 as it’s a nice little phone. I’d choose that over a XS but that’s ok too.
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,310
25,457
Wales, United Kingdom
Or I could just choose to stick with my 5c which I did, and fortunately they came out with the SE, and I bought that instead of a 6S.
The place where I work bought a load of iPhone 5C’s as company phones back when they launched as they were cheap. I managed to get an unopened one recently which I now use as an iPod for when I’m exercising. Much easier than a massive Plus phone!
e52d12ad04ba56c2147bed13e5efcac9.jpg
 

lkalliance

macrumors 65816
Jul 17, 2015
1,416
4,539
Oh, I'm a tad jealous! You know, I LOVED the 5c! Still my favorite. I looked at the 5c and the 5S and as I liked the design and more importantly the hand feel of the 5c, I reasoned that in two years they'd probably have brought the 64GB architecture and Touch ID to the 5c. Oh, well. :)
 
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chinchillas

macrumors regular
Apr 3, 2015
135
30
Oh, I'm a tad jealous! You know, I LOVED the 5c! Still my favorite. I looked at the 5c and the 5S and as I liked the design and more importantly the hand feel of the 5c, I reasoned that in two years they'd probably have brought the 64GB architecture and Touch ID to the 5c. Oh, well. :)
My mom still uses her 16 gb 5c. Not a heavy user, but the battery is a beast. 3 hours surfing FB light and it doesn’t go lower than 70%. On the other hand, my 5s began sucking battery wise within 2 years. I changed the battery, same thing. If I leave it there, battery will completely drain in 7-8 hours. Only weather native app and whatsapp running on the background. Now it comes attached to a heavy and inconvenient external battery and its cable. Maybe that’s a temp solution for the original poster: to get the new SE with that case/battery from Apple. In some countries companies offer to recycle the phone every two years if you return it unscratched, and for a montly payment that doesn’t sound too wild. Will buy my next iPhone with this scheme. I just don’t see the point of buying a phone right now that I’m in covid lockup almost every day.
edited to add link.
 
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bombardier.v2

macrumors member
Oct 9, 2008
56
5
To revive an old topic (and there are so many on here it was difficult to choose which to attach this to!), I watched the iPhone 12 mini announcement with interest, but the lack of Touch ID means I'm back to lusting over the SE2020. I have an original SE that replaced my 5S, and up to and including the 5S I'd always bought the new model, but that was when I stopped. I didn't recognise that it was a deal two days ago but here in the UK John Lewis and a couple of other retailers were selling the SE2020 at £379 and I stupidly didn't bite. They'd done it as a reactive sale to Prime Day, I think. I'm now hoping for either a post-12 mini launch deal in November, or Black Friday, potentially.
 

lkalliance

macrumors 65816
Jul 17, 2015
1,416
4,539
To revive an old topic (and there are so many on here it was difficult to choose which to attach this to!), I watched the iPhone 12 mini announcement with interest, but the lack of Touch ID means I'm back to lusting over the SE2020. I have an original SE that replaced my 5S, and up to and including the 5S I'd always bought the new model, but that was when I stopped. I didn't recognise that it was a deal two days ago but here in the UK John Lewis and a couple of other retailers were selling the SE2020 at £379 and I stupidly didn't bite. They'd done it as a reactive sale to Prime Day, I think. I'm now hoping for either a post-12 mini launch deal in November, or Black Friday, potentially.
Very similar feelings here. I would very much like to get the iPhone 12 Mini...except I've not yet gotten over the Touch ID-to-Face ID hump. I, too, haven't had a top-of-the-line iPhone since the 4S, and I am excited to look at one now (though there is the iPhone 12 Pro, I think you could say the 12 and the 12 Mini are reasonably close to "top-of-the-line"). Honestly it feels good to look at the new phones and feel like I'd be excited to get one. Haven't felt that way since the 5S.

To the question that started the thread in the first place: I've had the new SE since launch week (coming from an OG iPhone SE), and I have found it a worthwhile step up. I got used to the larger size pretty quickly, and though it doesn't do anything that significantly different than the original SE, it was nice to just update to iOS 14 without having to think twice about it or wait for feedback about performance. On the other side, I've found the battery life OK but not overwhelming. Better than my original SE was performing, but less than the original SE did when it was new.
 
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bombardier.v2

macrumors member
Oct 9, 2008
56
5
Thanks for your input, @lkalliance, much appreciated. Glad to know you like the SE - do you think the extra vertical resolution over the OG SE makes a big enough difference? I find lots of websites that have buttons etc. obscured by popovers and such like. iOS 14 is a travesty on the OG, too, with so many screen real-estate issues.
 

profmjh

macrumors 68000
Mar 7, 2015
1,733
1,799
UK
I'm back to lusting over the SE2020

I traded down from an iPhone 11 Pro Max to an SE2020 in May. I think it’s a really terrific phone and I much prefer the size and weight.

My one issue with it is battery life. I ended up buying the Smart Battery Case, which works well but, of course, adds size and weight — so I only use it when the SE’s battery is low.

I’ve actually ordered an iPhone 12 (regular) so my SE and its battery case will be for sale soon ...
 

jm31828

macrumors 65816
Sep 28, 2015
1,394
896
Bothell, Washington
I traded down from an iPhone 11 Pro Max to an SE2020 in May. I think it’s a really terrific phone and I much prefer the size and weight.

My one issue with it is battery life. I ended up buying the Smart Battery Case, which works well but, of course, adds size and weight — so I only use it when the SE’s battery is low.

I’ve actually ordered an iPhone 12 (regular) so my SE and its battery case will be for sale soon ...

Interesting you moved from the 11 Pro Max to an SE 2020. Did you feel that you gave up anything? Did the screen quality seem like a downgrade? And how is the camera compared to the 11 Pro Max? (not counting the lack of the other two lenses, but just the image quality you got from the main lens on the 11 PM- does it seem pretty much the same?

I may be crazy, but I have a regular 11 that I bought a year ago, and I am considering the move to the SE.... I do not want OLED because of the way the flicker bothers my eyes, so the 12 Mini is out- and I really want a smaller sized phone that is easier to put in my pocket. I also really miss touchID.
 

profmjh

macrumors 68000
Mar 7, 2015
1,733
1,799
UK
Did you feel that you gave up anything?

i think the SE2020 screen is outstanding. I can’t imagine how another screen could be better. I didn’t notice any kind of a downgrade from the 11 Pro Max.

I did miss the camera. I just have the regular camera now. It’s pretty good, I guess. But no fun features to play with.

I’m giving the 12 regular a go because I’m an upgrade junkie. And I love the colour (blue). And I miss the fun camera options (well, I’m going from three lenses to one back up to two). And the MagSafe looks fun. The weight is only marginally more than the SE. The size (length and width) is the same as the SE with the Smart Battery Case on. The thickness is much less than with the SBC. But will the battery last me all day?
 

chaoslimits

macrumors member
Oct 6, 2019
76
55
NJ
Looking to make the jump from OG SE to SE2020 myself. I think developers are beginning to ignore that screen size as my apps look wonky.

Zero interest in the 12 series without Touch ID and I'm predicting there will be a wave of returns once the Touch ID to Face ID reality sets in.
 

lkalliance

macrumors 65816
Jul 17, 2015
1,416
4,539
Thanks for your input, @lkalliance, much appreciated. Glad to know you like the SE - do you think the extra vertical resolution over the OG SE makes a big enough difference? I find lots of websites that have buttons etc. obscured by popovers and such like. iOS 14 is a travesty on the OG, too, with so many screen real-estate issues.
Hi, @bombardier.v2. To be honest I actually hadn't taken specific note of whether the added screen real estate affected specifically what you're talking about. I was happy with my SE 2016 in general and just felt like I wanted to upgrade the chip, so I haven't taken specific notice. However, of course, whenever I now pick up my girlfriend's SE 2016 I wonder how she gets by with such a small screen, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT SO MANY PEOPLE SAID WOULD HAPPEN, lol. Look at me, I'm a stereotype!

*(adds to résumé)*

As far as iOS 14, my girlfriend has not yet updated, but if and when she does I'll get to see how limited it is.
 
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cbreze

macrumors 65816
Nov 26, 2014
1,119
715
Oregon
Reading all the complaints about the crap battery life, I've decided to switch to Android. ?‍♀️
I have a pixel and an SE. The battery life on the SE could certainly be better. But the Pixel is not the best either. If I didn’t already have an SE I would probably get the 12 mini coming out and I believe it has a bit bigger battery. The pixel 5 battery should be adequate but I just can’t get past the lesser speakers than on the previous pixels. Just do your research and make sure you get a android with good battery life
 

ssledoux

macrumors 601
Sep 16, 2006
4,412
4,243
Down south
Reading all the complaints about the crap battery life, I've decided to switch to Android. ?‍♀️

I never had an issue with the battery life. It charged so quickly using my ipad charger, and was usually plugged in when in my car for my car play, so I rarely found the battery life to be a problem.

I just upgraded to a 12, and am actually considering returning it and keeping my SE - it’s just a great little phone.
 
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chinchillas

macrumors regular
Apr 3, 2015
135
30
I've had so many issues with battery life that I carry around a heavy external battery because I know my iPhone will give up when using Maps. And this is my 2nd battery. Super annoying.
 

chinchillas

macrumors regular
Apr 3, 2015
135
30
I'm switching not only to Android, but to a Xiaomi, LOL. I was going to pick Huawei but decided not to because of the Google issues. But all my friends are satisfied with Xiaomi. I've decided to go 100% functional over dysfunctional prettiness that iPhone has become.
 

jakja83

Cancelled
Aug 4, 2010
261
167
I'm switching not only to Android, but to a Xiaomi, LOL. I was going to pick Huawei but decided not to because of the Google issues. But all my friends are satisfied with Xiaomi. I've decided to go 100% functional over dysfunctional prettiness that iPhone has become.
iPhone dysfunctional? A bit boring perhaps, but a very solid ecosystem without doubt. Long term support and solid functionality. Very few bugs and issues. Mature system.

Good luck with the Android on getting 1-2 years of updates. The SE will likely be on current OS in 2025.
 

chinchillas

macrumors regular
Apr 3, 2015
135
30
iPhone dysfunctional? A bit boring perhaps, but a very solid ecosystem without doubt. Long term support and solid functionality. Very few bugs and issues. Mature system.

Good luck with the Android on getting 1-2 years of updates. The SE will likely be on current OS in 2025.
Yeah, a phone with a dysfunctional battery is a dysfunctional phone. I wish I could enjoy the awesome ecosystem if only the battery wouldn't die within an hour of *light* use.
 

Harmonious Zen

macrumors 6502a
May 18, 2013
874
551
I’m really surprised by all of the people who won’t take the jump to Face ID. The pandemic has made it marginally less convenient when wearing a mask, but my oh my is it otherwise a major step up. Everything from unlocking my phone, approving Apple Pay payments, entering passwords is just so much easier. I just look at my phone, that’s it. No need to fumble with fingerprints.

For those who haven’t given it a shot yet, just try it. And not just for a day, but for the whole 2-week return period.
 
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