Is the nMP an appliance?

[flat five]

Yes - your reasoning is flawed.

You're boldly making claims without ever even having seen a picture of the CPU in the Mac Mini Pro.

I've never said that it *won't* be swappable -- I've brought up points which might lead to it not being user swappable.

You're being reckless, I'm being cautious.

if you could see what i'm saying in a different light then i think you'll find what i'm saying isn't reckless at all..

because realistically, i'm not the one saying anything will change.. with the mp1 you can swap cpus,gpus,storage,ram.. with the nmp, you can swap these things too..

that's the simplest and purest logical path available in all of this.. when someone says 'you can no longer change a cpu in a mac pro' without ever seeing a picture of it-- that is a bold claim..

..especially when there's no supporting evidence or reasoning given as to why this change has occurred.

i feel as if everybody is arguing me that i'm wrong and nobody is arguing me why they're right.. when in reality, my position is the one with backing and the anti side is the one which requires stronger explanation/proof.

----------

I've never said that it *won't* be swappable

for clarity, does this mean the only thing you're arguing me about is that i'm wrong?

because i think it's fair if you're going to discuss this with me under the umbrella of "i'm not claiming anything" then you equally shouldn't be claiming i'm wrong or that my reasons are flawed. in fact, under this scenario, there's nothing for me to be wrong about to begin with.

 

[maflynn]

I've never said that it *won't* be swappable -- I've brought up points which might lead to it not being user swappable.

I think until we have the nMP in people's hands its better to assume that its not swappable. You need to look at Apple's prior history on making computers and we see a move to less and less upgradeability. I think the odds are good that we'll not be able to swap the CPUs but as you mentioned until we see them in person we'll not know for sure

 

[Larry-K]

No Slots for bread.

 

[flat five]

... its better to assume that its not swappable. You need to look at Apple's prior history on making computers and we see a move to less and less upgradeability.

hey mike. the problem with using that as an argument against nmp CPU upgradability is that it introduces an even bigger connundrum than what the logic attempts to solve.

if I take your advice of 'look at the history of apple and their upgradability'.. I only have to go back 2 months before finding relevant facts.. not opinions but facts

with the latest 21" iMac, you're right-- they made a change and soldered the CPU to the board.. but when I look at the new 27" iMac, I see that not only is the CPU swappable, they've also made it even more upgradable than the previous model (ssds)..

you're telling me to look at the history and when I do that, not only do I find a replaceable CPU, I also find a move towards increased upgradability.. (or-- I find the exact opposite of what you're telling me I should find)

which now leaves you with the even more difficult question than what we are originally discussing.. that being-- why is the iMac moving towards increased upgrade capability yet the Mac Pro is moving towards less?

if you can answer that question then I might be able to better swallow your original argument. but if you can't explain the reasoning behind it, I have no real choice other than disregard the argument.

do you see what I'm saying?

 

[goMac]

I could see the cards themselves being swappable. Need a new CPU? Swap the CPU card. Older PowerMacs had a very similar system where your CPU was on a PCI-ish card (not ZIF, and actual card.)

Only verified user swappable components are the RAM and the SSD at this point though.

 

[wallysb01]

which now leaves you with the even more difficult question than what we are originally discussing.. that being-- why is the iMac moving towards increased upgrade capability yet the Mac Pro is moving towards less?

if you can answer that question then I might be able to better swallow your original argument. but if you can't explain the reasoning behind it, I have no real choice other than disregard the argument.

do you see what I'm saying?

The 27" has improved, but that was after it dropped down and went back up. So in a longer time span, its been flat. In general, the iMacs have been a pain to upgrade, even compared to all-in-one desktops. For example the HP Z line of all-in-ones, loses really no upgradability compared to a standard desktop but is still an all-in-one.

The laptop line for Apple has continued to go down over a relatively long time span.

 

[AidenShaw]

...
with the mp1 you can swap cpus,gpus,storage,ram.. with the nmp, you can swap these things too
...

This is exactly what I consider reckless - you've never even seen a picture of the CPU in a Mac Mini Pro - yet you boldly state that these parts are swappable.

...when someone says 'you can no longer change a cpu in a mac pro' without ever seeing a picture of it-- that is a bold claim
...

I've never said that. I've said that I doubt that you'll be able swap them and given some reasons, but I've never said that it isn't *possible*.
____

Somehow I expect that your definition of "swappable" or "upgradeable" is:

If the expert hardware technicians at Ifixit can disassemble two brand new Mac Mini Pros into component parts, shuffle all the parts, and reassemble two working MMPs then it's swappable.​

I think that most of us would define "swappable" or "upgradeable" as:

I, an adept tinkerer, can go to Fry's or CentralComputers or Newegg or Amazon and get better parts and make my Mac Mini Pro better/faster (or simply repair something like a blown power supply).​

One of my engineers recently (on 4 November) had a Core i7 Dell fail to reboot after a power cycle. Right away I knew that it was a power supply failure - we've had a couple of other Dells of that model lose their power supplies and they exhibited a pattern of identical behaviours.

This PS failure happened at about 11 in the morning. The engineer wanted it fixed soon, but a couple of hours downtime would not cause him too much pain. Right before lunch, I went to Central Computers and bought a 450 watt Antec power suppy for $55, had lunch at a nearby mom-and-pop Thai restaurant (the muu pad krapow lunch special), and came back to the office and replaced the PS in about 10 minutes of work. He was running his stuff again by 13:00.

Unless your office is next door to a large Apple store, I doubt that a blown power supply on a Mac Mini Pro is only 2 hours of downtime. And if you're out of AppleCare, it won't be $55. (The Dells were purchased in early 2009 - as soon as the first Core i7s were available. Dell's standard 3 year warranty expired in early 2012)

 

[flat five]

I could see the cards themselves being swappable. Need a new CPU? Swap the CPU card. Older PowerMacs had a very similar system where your CPU was on a PCI-ish card (not ZIF, and actual card.)

Only verified user swappable components are the RAM and the SSD at this point though.

oh.. didn't realize the ssd was verified swappable.. i thought it was only the ram so far.

but yeah, i saw those cards you're talking about when i was searching around for some info.. looks like it may be a viable option with the nmp.

The 27" has improved, but that was after it dropped down and went back up. So in a longer time span, its been flat. In general, the iMacs have been a pain to upgrade, even compared to all-in-one desktops. For example the HP Z line of all-in-ones, loses really no upgradability compared to a standard desktop but is still an all-in-one.

The laptop line for Apple has continued to go down over a relatively long time span.

yeah, i don't know.. i meant that imac thing more as a 'just sayin' comment.. i do recognize macs aren't the most upgradable of computers.. but i also know i've been hearing "well, they're making them harder to service (or whatever)" for the entire time i've been using computers (started with a g4).. i mean, how long is it going to take for them to complete the process ?

i truly believe most of the decisions behind 'solder this/seal that' have much better reasoning beyond a simple "we'll make more money this way because we'll force people to buy more often"

This is exactly what I consider reckless - you've never even seen a picture of the CPU in a Mac Mini Pro - yet you boldly state that these parts are swappable.

that's not true. there are a lot of pictures of this thing out there.. on the last page i said to you- "i haven't really seen many pictures that give much insight into how the cpu is actually in there.."

i didn't say i haven't seen any pictures.. there's a difference.. (the problem with looking for cpu related images is that most of the more detailed photos of the nmp show it with the i/o panel in place.. blocking our view of the cpu)

i'll make a post a little later with some pictures and thoughts attached.

i really don't feel i'm just sitting here making a blind guess with no evidence/logic behind it then boldly stating my coin-flip result.. i want to figure the thing out.. it's a puzzle and it's an enjoyable challenge..

and if 20 people's eyes were on it from a 'let's figure out how to service it' mindset instead of having an 'it's not serviceable' mind straight off the bat-- then we'd figure it out..

Somehow I expect that your definition of "swappable" or "upgradeable" is:

If the expert hardware technicians at Ifixit can disassemble two brand new Mac Mini Pros into component parts, shuffle all the parts, and reassemble two working MMPs then it's swappable.​

I think that most of us would define "swappable" or "upgradeable" as:

I, an adept tinkerer, can go to Fry's or CentralComputers or Newegg or Amazon and get better parts and make my Mac Mini Pro better/faster (or simply repair something like a blown power supply).​

no, the second one. (and i have no clue about the power supply.. from what i see so far, it's the ram/storage/cpu/gpus which are user serviceable)

 

[Dr. Stealth]

" Is the nMP an appliance? "

Well, I believe another thread concluded it's not a "WorkStation".

I believe it falls squarely in the "disposable appliance" category....

Like a coffee maker or toaster.....

One of those items you justify spending too much money on by telling yourself "This will last me for many years to come." Only to find they burn out every two years no matter how much you spent...

 

[wallysb01]

yeah, i don't know.. i meant that imac thing more as a 'just sayin' comment.. i do recognize macs aren't the most upgradable of computers.. but i also know i've been hearing "well, they're making them harder to service (or whatever)" for the entire time i've been using computers (started with a g4).. i mean, how long is it going to take for them to complete the process ?

Its certainly had its ups and downs along every line once you go back to the g4. But once it was intel, the Mac pro has been very easily upgraded, the iMacs have pretty much always been a pain. The Mac Mini has maybe gotten better, while all the laptops have gone down.

i truly believe most of the decisions behind 'solder this/seal that' have much better reasoning beyond a simple "we'll make more money this way because we'll force people to buy more often"

I agree. For the laptops its been a war between “lighter and thinner” and functionality. Personally, I love my 2011 MBP and see these “retina” this and thats and kinda shrug. I don’t need a 15” laptop to be 6mm thick, or what ever. While I haven’t done any upgrades besides the RAM, it does give me comfort that I can easily swap a HDD, replace the ODD with a HDD. And while not as easy, it is possible to swap every part in this computer besides, depending on your skill, the screen. Now some may place a lot of value in ever mm of thickness or ounce of weight saved, I personally would rather have lasting computational functionality. I payed nearly $2000 for this laptop, and I intend to make it last. If I wanted to replace my computer every 2 years, I’d have bought a $500 throw-away-Dell.

Now on the iMac, Mac Mini and Mac Pro, what’s the deal? I don’t ever remotely care about those millimeters saved on the iMac. The Mac Mini has turned into a very elegant machine given the tasks its suited for and Apple hasn’t shown much desire to drastically shrink its size. And the Mac Pro, that’s the most curious of all. No duel socket, but forced duel GPU. Questionable upgradable nearly-everything. And this is supposed to be a workstation...huh? Its a workstation, why do I care how big it is?

 

[flat five]

i'll make a post a little later with some pictures and thoughts attached.

(leaving the ram,drive, and gpu out of it for now.. fwiw, the post isn't meant as any sort of proof of anything.. more like a casual stroll/familiarization type of exercise)




my original thought was these vertical elements were individual rods/stilts/chopsticks looking things...

... but they're actually part of the core.. they're much more supportive/key/solid than they first appeared..

some other things to note in this picture are the two green holes.. these holes are where the upper two gpu screws (12v & gnd) will be connecting to. it appears as if the gpu power supply will be coming through these holes from the i/o panel region.

notice the indention in the core shown with the blue arrow.. there is a secondary plate of (probably) metal which goes here.. more pics later on that..

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




the cpu is further inside the computer than this popular image makes it appear at first glance:

(top view)
..it actually resides just about dead center (red rectangle)

the orange circle is meant to approximate the size/location of the fan.. the gpus' top edge is higher than the bottom of the fan so it sits down inside the gpus a bit.. the cpu board is shorter and the fan sits directly over it.

[EDIT - dec4] the fan is bigger and higher up than i previously thought.. it does sit over the gpus a little bit.. more like this:

[/EDIT]





here is the core side of the cpu.. it is being shown 180º to its proper relation (or for all intents/purposes, just ignore the body for this picture).. this picture is one of apple's renderings.. with similar images which we also have accompanying photographs for, i've noticed apple has left out some of the details in the renderings.. it's possible there is a clip or spring or something we can't see at the moment..

the bottom edge is the connection.. to remove the board it has to slide up.

the red dots indicate the 4 outer torx screws.. these screws will attach (semi)directly to the core.. the 4 inner screws mount to the socket..

the cpu itself looks to be held in place via a standard method (though not so standard socket).. there are quite a few ways to imagine how to get it out of there exactly but i really haven't come up with one that's completely simple or unawkward/safe for the replacement cpu$$.. i'll just leave some of those ideas out for now and bring it up it further discussion warrants.

i still believe the cpu itself will swap instead of the whole board but i think this picture shows that even if we can't get the cpu out of the bracket, then at the very least the board itself will be swappable (almost- see below).. the fan is above it and blocking it.. i have some ideas about the fan but i'll talk about it later..

a blurry side view of the above.. it seems as if we should see a vertical seam on the side of the bracket where it opens up.. it almost looks as if there is one but a better picture is needed..

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




behind the gpus, you can see the secondary plate attached to the core: (notice on the (suspected) render that the left gpu is not showing mounts for a second ssd as you can see in the photos)

similar view on the cpu side:

of note are the 4 pegs shown with the blue arrow.. they are holding the secondary metal sheet in place as well as providing a socket for the 4 outer torx screws to attach to.. you can notice they will interconnect with the shape of the cpu socket.. at the moment, these pegs are what's preventing me from saying "yeah, just slide the whole board up".. they'll prevent it from being able to slip upwards.. i'm still looking at it wrong.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so yeah, i guess that's enough to get started.. i might put up some more pics tomorrow but i'd rather just wake up and read about someone's brilliant observation instead. (insert joke of choice.. i know i know)



[edit] oh, right.. i need to add something controversial to the post .. no thermal paste necessary.. gnight

 

[SeattleMoose]

This thread reminds me of watching two great ping-pong players playing very hard without a ball. But not to worry, your balls are "in the male" and should arrive by Xmas.

 

[flat five]

" Is the nMP an appliance? "

Well, I believe another thread concluded it's not a "WorkStation".

I believe it falls squarely in the "disposable appliance" category....

Like a coffee maker or toaster.....

One of those items you justify spending too much money on by telling yourself "This will last me for many years to come." Only to find they burn out every two years no matter how much you spent...

yeah, if we zoom out a bit, of course the computer is completely disposable.. nobody is going to want a 6,1 in ten years from now just like nobody wants a G5 any longer..
i'd put the life expectancy of the nmp at 5-7 years.. longer than your 2yr toaster example but in the big picture, not by much..

Its certainly had its ups and downs along every line once you go back to the g4. But once it was intel, the Mac pro has been very easily upgraded, the iMacs have pretty much always been a pain. The Mac Mini has maybe gotten better, while all the laptops have gone down.

right, i think i generally see the same thing you're saying.
my point is more to do with how cautious (using aiden's wording) people are being.. in my eyes, it's way way too cautious.

if i look at the history of apple products, nothing at all says:
"beware: we are going to take our most serviceable product in the entire lineup and put it in line with the least serviceable items- in one fell swoop"

there's simply no precedence for that type of behavior.. we've never seen it happen in the past.. but claiming that is what is happening is a bolder claim than anything i've said in all of this.. especially when considering it's still the only product in the line up with an actual user access latch and lot's of nice user friendly screws inside..
so while yes, something may negatively change between the mp1 and the new one, it's still going to be the most user serviceable product in their entire lineup.

I agree. For the laptops its been a war between “lighter and thinner” and functionality. Personally, I love my 2011 MBP and see these “retina” this and thats and kinda shrug. I don’t need a 15” laptop to be 6mm thick, or what ever. While I haven’t done any upgrades besides the RAM, it does give me comfort that I can easily swap a HDD, replace the ODD with a HDD. And while not as easy, it is possible to swap every part in this computer besides, depending on your skill, the screen. Now some may place a lot of value in ever mm of thickness or ounce of weight saved, I personally would rather have lasting computational functionality. I payed nearly $2000 for this laptop, and I intend to make it last. If I wanted to replace my computer every 2 years, I’d have bought a $500 throw-away-Dell.

me personally, i buy a $2000 refurb laptop every 3 years.. my current 2010 has an ssd in it with an additional hard drive in place of the superdrive..

i like that set up and i'm glad i was able to change it.. but if i could do it over, i'd rather of just had the ssd in the first place instead of needing to buy it additionally.. the fact that i upgraded means i spent 25% more on the computer and it's not going to last any longer because i'll still be replacing the entire computer prior to it's hardware dying..

Now on the iMac, Mac Mini and Mac Pro, what’s the deal? I don’t ever remotely care about those millimeters saved on the iMac. The Mac Mini has turned into a very elegant machine given the tasks its suited for and Apple hasn’t shown much desire to drastically shrink its size. And the Mac Pro, that’s the most curious of all. No duel socket, but forced duel GPU. Questionable upgradable nearly-everything. And this is supposed to be a workstation...huh? Its a workstation, why do I care how big it is?

that's the same exact question as "it's a workstation, why do i care how small it is?" ...as in, it says you have work to be done and the shape/size/color/etc of the actual computer is entirely irrelevant because you have much more important things to worry about other than hardware such as getting your work done.. so the question becomes "can i get my workstation type work done on this thing".. and the answer is "yes, better than you've been able to do using any computer apple has released prior to this one"

----------

This thread reminds me of watching two great ping-pong players playing very hard without a ball. But not to worry, your balls are "in the male" and should arrive by Xmas.

heh.. but that's like waiting for tomorrow's answers to today's crossword puzzle.
the goal, at least if you're looking for something to do to pass the time while waiting on the nmp-- and you like puzzles, is to figure it out prior to someone else showing you the answers.

 

[flat five]

oh.. and if anyone is playing the picture hunt game, the one to find is a clear shot of this step-by-step array which was on display at wwdc..

somebody has a hi-res/focused picture of this.. it's just that i can't find one via any of the tags/searches i've tried so far.. i'm sure someone's googlefu is better than mine..

other almosts:

the only thing we can see related to the cpu from this angle is that the connection occurs at the bottom.

need this shot of steptwo only from the other side of the table.

 

[AidenShaw]

Those pictures just reinforce the fear that this thing will be a nightmare to repair/upgrade.

And, "no thermal paste" is a bad thing for user serviceability....

 

[flat five]

Those pictures just reinforce the fear that this thing will be a nightmare to repair/upgrade.

be careful bud.. you're almost starting to sound like you're saying it's repairable/upgradeable

(entirely meant as a silly joke)

And, "no thermal paste" is a bad thing for user serviceability....

the reasons why i say no thermal paste (for clarity- i'm not saying 'there will not be messy liquid involved with a cpu swap'.. i'm just saying we have a couple of things which should make us more likely to consider the possibility)


the main apple tout as far as innovation here is their thermal core and how they've revolutionized heat transfer/dispersion in the design.. so it's more likely they've figured out a more beneficial/efficient method of cooling the cpu than what thermal paste provides.


when you look at the socket from both sides of the board, it looks as if the entire cpu is inclosed within a heat sink itself.. it's almost entirely surrounded by heat transfer material and it's this larger outer box which now need to be cooled.. as opposed the the more standard methods of only touching one side of the cpu to the heat sink then using paste to accelerate heat transfer through the much smaller surface area of only the cpu's back plate.

 

[AidenShaw]

so it's more likely they've figured out a more beneficial/efficient method of cooling the cpu than what thermal paste provides

Of course, thermal paste does not "cool" the chips - it just fills tiny imperfections in the fit between the not quite perfectly flat top of the chip and the not quite perfectly flat heat sink.

The alternative is usually a "thermal pad" - a very soft metal pad that deforms when the heat sink is tightened down. This is a good solution, but it has a couple of drawbacks:

• the thermal pad is designed for a single use only - you should use a new one whenever the heat sink is removed (once it's deformed, you can't "reform" it)
• the tightening process has to be precise and even - uneven tightening can deform parts of the pad too much and leave gaps

Also note that the chips are assembled with thermal coupling to the top, not to the pins. Putting heat sinks on other parts of the chip would probably have a very minor impact.

 

[flat five]

Of course, thermal paste does not "cool" the chips - it just fills tiny imperfections in the fit between the not quite perfectly flat top of the chip and the not quite perfectly flat heat sink.

The alternative is usually a "thermal pad" - a very soft metal pad that deforms when the heat sink is tightened down. This is a good solution, but it has a couple of drawbacks:

• the thermal pad is designed for a single use only - you should use a new one whenever the heat sink is removed (once it's deformed, you can't "reform" it)
• the tightening process has to be precise and even - uneven tightening can deform parts of the pad too much and leave gaps

Also note that the chips are assembled with thermal coupling to the top, not to the pins. Putting heat sinks on other parts of the chip would probably have a very minor impact.

thanks for the lesson.. out of curiosity, how important are thermal paste/pad? meaning-- will the computer still run except everything is hotter.. -or- the computer won't run at all because it's too hot.. (just trying to get an idea of how severe a problem apple would have to overcome if their goal was to eliminate it)




-------------------------------------

another possible way to remove the board for servicing.. i like this one because i no longer have to consider removing the fan and top elements.. there are still those pegs in the back protruding from the core which i can't figure out but currently, they're still preventing this from happening..

it looks like the board is short enough (yellow) to allow room in order to slide it up enough to disconnect the bottom.. then bring it out of the front..

 

[flat five]

using this picture to talk about some other things.. i'm pretty sure we can conclude the ssd install is absolute obvious.. we've seen this same design in all the other apple computers and we know it's user swappable in those.. even the lowest rated mbp ever has this drive and it is replaceable.. it's much more friendly than the mp1 as we now have 1 screw instead of 4.. the heads appear to be less likely to strip.. plus there's no secondary shuttle involved..

the ram- we're positive about.. it also looks a lot better than mp1 ram.. push the button, the slots present themselves, push it back in when done.. again, no secondary board to remove..

another thing to consider is this: where are you going to be servicing your nmp? it's going to be sitting right in front of you on top of your desk.. you really couldn't ask for anything better as far as that's concerned.. and also remember it rotates..

to me, those three points alone say there have been improvements in the servicing dept.. and not just small improvements either.. some pretty great ones.



---------------------------------------------------------------

a little bit about the gpu.. i think this thing on the bottom is the plug (yellow).. it's pretty much saying to put your thumb on it and push in.. i'm not 100% on this because the amount of space between the core and the board in this area may be as small as 1/4" which may be tricky to get the socket in between.

the top cap on it is thicker/sturdier than need be plus it's oversized (hanging over the box it's capping creating a grab point in order to pull it outwards).. i've seen a lot of pictures of the gpus from a lot of angles and nothing appears to be in the way of the board coming straight out..

you will be able to remove the gpu board with the drive in place.. (though i don't know why you would necessarily).. maybe the only weird thing about this setup is if you want to switch gpus, you'll have to switch the ssd as well.. due to the ease of changing the drive, we can almost call this a wash.. or, the new drive is so much better than the old that it still wins out in this case.. it's just that it loses some slickness(?) points by being doubled up like this..

something else to notice is that there really doesn't seem to be any wires involved with any of the parts so far.. if this proves to be the case, that is something else i would consider to be a good improvement.

----------

the red picture shows the thickness of that top cap.. definitely possible it's this sturdy just so you can push on it. (it's also known that the cap is metal- not plastic as it's threaded for the 2 screws going into it which are accessible from the other side once the board is removed.)

 

[twietee]

A red nMP? That makes it much more attractive - possibly faster too, but we don't know yet!

No, serious question: they sell them with different coatings? Didn't know that.

 

[flat five]

A red nMP? That makes it much more attractive - possibly faster too, but we don't know yet!

No, serious question: they sell them with different coatings? Didn't know that.

it's a limited release version.. (as in one single unit).. it was auctioned for one million dollars

http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2013/null-n09014/lot.27.html


forum discussion going on here:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1671789/

 

[iSee]

(responding to the original question)

"Appliance" isn't quite the right word, in my opinion.

It's a unit of computing power.
It combines four pillars of computing resources: RAM, GPU, CPU, and working storage.
It's not quite a fixed unit since each of these can vary but the permutations are limited and the starting point on each is pretty high.

It's a different paradigm than the previous Mac Pro, which was: "It's a big box you can put everything you might need into." Instead you get various high-speed connections for all the other stuff like mass storage (an inherently external resource, BTW, so I think they made the right call on this one).

It's all perfectly upgradable/swappable, by the way. While certain components may be individually upgradable/swappable or not, I think the main idea is that the entire thing is swapped as a unit.
(I assume RAM is the exception here.)

I think it will work out if the resale/trade-in value on swapped out cylinders is high because these the economics of it swing into balance--that way you wouldn't be losing your shirt on the quick upgrade cycles some many need.

 

[slughead]

While certain components may be individually upgradable/swappable or not, I think the main idea is that the entire thing is swapped as a unit.

In other words, you toss the thing out when you're done with it/want a better one like a toaster oven or any other appliance.

Edit: can't let this image go to waste--4 hours in photoshop!

 

[flat five]

In other words, you toss the thing out when you're done with it/want a better one like a toaster oven or any other appliance.

maybe.. but i think the key thing to realize is that it's us, the consumers, who are making many of these decisions.. it's not so much the manufactures even though most of us seem to insist it's all their fault.. we need to take some responsibility for our own desires/actions as well..

for instance, some people have actually tried making fun of me because i still have a 1,1... the same people that are touting "oh, apple is making all this disposable crap" turn around and imply to me "oh, you're not even a serious computer user.. if you really needed power, there's no way you would still use a 1,1"

i'm not going to delve much further into this side topic but i hope the point i'm trying to make won't require four more pages to explain anyway

 

[flat five]

(cpu)
i drew it up to see if the board can slide up with the pegs in there and have concluded no.. there's around 1/16" of play.. maybe as much as an 1/8 but even then, i don't think it's enough to slide the board vertically out of its socket.

as far as i can gather, those pegs will remain in place while you're servicing the cpu.. they don't come out unless you're unscrewing the secondary plate on the core. they're probably hexed near the bottom which will accept a socket or i suppose the bottom of the thread recess could be a star drive as well..

i don't think you just unscrew all 8 screws, then remove the board while the cpu just stays back balancing on the pegs.. another way to say that is i think the cpu socket will remain attached to the board even after all 8 screws are removed.

this problem with the pegs will happen regardless of the fan/top being in place.. if the whole top wasn't there, i still can't see how you would unplug the board.. the only way would be to unscrew the whole bottom then disconnect backwards (remove the socket from the plug instead of the other way around).. but that would be dumb.



i've only seen the slot for this board in one image (below).. one of apple's exploded views with the shadows boosted.. (the pegs are also visible here)

i don't know.. i can't figure it out from this one picture.. a couple of guesses which would resolve the pin problem would be that the board's socket is hinged allowing you to bring the top down then pull it straight out towards you.. i think this would be sweet because even if we could slide it straight up, we'd still have to maneuver the board afterwards in the same motion as the hinge would provide.. so a hinge would let you do it all in one motion..
but still, a hinged plug seems a little out there (fwiw, the ram plugs are hinged so i guess it's not a completely ridiculous thought)

the other guess was the one that i've thought all along but it just seems highly unlikely.. that being there's a hole in the board.. the board doesn't have to go anywhere in order to get to the cpu.. the first bracket (on the left in the top render) comes off then there's no secondary bracket.. the next piece (2nd from the left) is actually the socket and it, as well as the cpu, comes straight out.. it seems to be the easiest way to do it but the problem is that the shuttle now has a plug involved as it has to connect to the board somehow.. (basically suggesting the same thing as if on a more standard design, you would remove the socket itself from the board instead of only the cpu.)


the problem is, those are just my ideas and my ideas don't matter too much in this type of exercise.. the goal is to read what the designer's ideas are/were.. and they haven't left enough clues.
i can't disprove or prove either of my ideas even though they're pretty far apart on the spectrum.. we need more pictures.


on a side note- that bracket system is not designed to help robots assemble the computer.. it's also not designed to assist the workers in the factory.. it's designed for you.. i won't go too far into it as it's another wall of words but it's shaped and cut this way to allow someone with a screwdriver to tighten it to proper tension on a consistent basis.. you can't really over tighten it (i mean, i'm sure you can strip the screw etc) but there will be some leeway if you happen to under tighten.. basically, the last quarter turn or so should provide proper tension regardless of where exactly you stopped turning..



-------------------------------------------------------------
dunno, i'm pretty much over it at this point (though i might draw the ram or something)... in the last thread, i was saying something like "the nmp will be the same or easier to service than the mp1"

after looking at it more thoroughly, i'm changing that up..
the nmp will definitely be easier to work on than the previous version.. by a wide margin even..

i don't really know what it's going to take until people start to accept that.. maybe when ten or so service techs give great reviews on it's ease of tinkering? because that is going to happen.. the designers havent made it worse.. they haven't left it the same.. they made it better