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turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Original poster
Mar 19, 2008
17,392
40,169
Just back from the Apple Store.

This is obviously just random anecdotal, but the guy I returned the machine to at the little "window" they have set up said he's had a couple returns of M1 Mini's for "issues" (bluetooth he'd heard of...others too, but we didn't get into it much as there was a line behind me)

Possible some bad units in the batch I guess?
Maybe some hardware/software combo of things too..

I really hope they get it worked out for all that are having problems.
 

profdraper

macrumors 6502
Jan 14, 2017
391
290
Brisbane, Australia
Ok. I fully punted and am returning the M1 MBA and M1 Mini I have been trialing.

I’m having too much Bluetooth weirdness, as others have reported here and there, and a bunch of “not waking my monitor from sleep” that is annoying as hell.

No other Mac, Hack or PC I have has ever had issues with this (the monitor been around here for a decade).

I love the performance and the roadmap of where these Apple will go, but I’m not ready to have issues like these. Way too annoying and constant.

The MBA is great in its own, but I need to dock it all the time and thus these issues are showstoppers.

So close. Just not yet ready for prime time, for me anyhow.
FWIW, I've always found Apple's bluetooth to be a dog, irrespective of hardware or software versions, just for one example: Apple bluetooth keyboard, mouse or trackpad will not work on this computer to boot into or control UEFI; used to have to always revert to a wired keyboard for that and/or multi-boot systems.

In any case, the short end of the story is now that I always use wireless keyboard /mice (like Logitech with a USB wireless receiver) and there are zero issues. Re. the Displays & M1s, there are meant to be Big Sur fixes for this shortly & especially in terms of various UW displays. But yes, is annoying and unacceptable that Apple continue to break third party apps and drivers whenever they release a new OS. Clearly, they don't give a rats about 'customers' or 'pros'.
 
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profdraper

macrumors 6502
Jan 14, 2017
391
290
Brisbane, Australia
Did you do a clean install or a Time Machine restore?
All of those at one point or another: Apple developer with updates and betas; and time machine restore at one point; and clean install more recently. Can't say I found any operational differences post TM or clean. The former is just faster & especially with many third party apps, plugins, VIs, libraries etc in mind. FWIW, I do find TM much improved these days vs. being dreadful with breaking 3rd party installs, licenses etc in the past couple of decades. Seems quite good now since Catalina & Big Sur.
 

Joelist

macrumors 6502
Jan 28, 2014
463
373
Illinois
I've been using Apple for years (since Tiger) and never had any of the issues described. And my M1 MBA base model has been a joy to use. And the 720p webcam looks great BTW - the fact that it is going through a DSP (unlike in other laptops) improves the image a lot.
 

EDF

macrumors member
Aug 25, 2009
81
8
Don't feel bad. I didn't even get to add bluetooth devices. I was too annoyed having to grab a whole other laptop just to load a VM. I also didn't want to be forced to Big Sur just yet. I had fun for what the system was worth but being a mature adult and keeping things going >
 
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turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Original poster
Mar 19, 2008
17,392
40,169
Yes it's fine. The 720p looks good with proper color balance and decent sharpness and the reason is it is being processed by the DSP block in the M1.

"Fine"...perhaps, but not good and not great and I expect great for a new, premium priced, machine from Apple in 2020.
 

mr_roboto

macrumors 6502a
Sep 30, 2020
856
1,866
I am not paying a premium to Apple and then still having to upgrade things that they should’ve upgraded themselves.

Let’s hold these guys to a higher standard than that please

"Fine"...perhaps, but not good and not great and I expect great for a new, premium priced, machine from Apple in 2020.

You're asking for the literal impossible.

It's a physics thing. There's no known way to shrink CMOS camera pixel sensors further than they already were when that 720p camera was new without creating terrible signal to noise problems. So if you want to up the megapixel count without introducing image quality problems that basically cancel out the resolution upgrade, the sensor's X and Y dimensions have to get larger to fit more pixels of the same size. The knock-on effect of that is a lens with a longer focal length, because that's what you need to keep an image in focus from edge to edge over a larger plane. What does that mean? A much thicker camera module.

Nobody makes a good webcam that fits in a housing as thick as a MacBook/MacBook Pro screen. Apple could attempt to placate entitled people who think arbitrary tech improvements are possible by adding more megapixels to pump up the spec sheet numbers, but without a massive camera bump it wouldn't result in a better image (it can actually make it worse). Or they could add the bump and create other problems, especially for people who don't use the webcam. (And also get made fun of by an entirely different crowd of entitled people.)
 

Quackers

macrumors 68000
Sep 18, 2013
1,938
708
Manchester, UK
FWIW, I've always found Apple's bluetooth to be a dog, irrespective of hardware or software versions, just for one example: Apple bluetooth keyboard, mouse or trackpad will not work on this computer to boot into or control UEFI; used to have to always revert to a wired keyboard for that and/or multi-boot systems.

In any case, the short end of the story is now that I always use wireless keyboard /mice (like Logitech with a USB wireless receiver) and there are zero issues. Re. the Displays & M1s, there are meant to be Big Sur fixes for this shortly & especially in terms of various UW displays. But yes, is annoying and unacceptable that Apple continue to break third party apps and drivers whenever they release a new OS. Clearly, they don't give a rats about 'customers' or 'pros'.
Just on a point of interest
I was never surprised when a Bluetooth device didn't work on booting any machine.
There's no operating system running so how could Bluetooth work?
Maybe I'm wrong and others can manage that, I don't know.
 

Falhófnir

macrumors 603
Aug 19, 2017
6,146
7,001
As much as the M1 MacBook Air is everything I was expecting (& I've been extremely pro Apple Silicon since the very first whisperings, even pre solid rumours) I can't get around the fact it's still a 13" computer and that means I'd only be able to use it as a home casual consumption device. That puts it in contention with the 13" iPad which, as I will need a larger MacBook anyway, is a better companion that opens up more functionality with the pencil and touch input. So no M1 macs for me, but I am very excited for the AS (M1X?) 16" and the A14X iPad Pro coming up :D
 

Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
May 20, 2010
6,024
2,617
Los Angeles, CA
Ok. I fully punted and am returning the M1 MBA and M1 Mini I have been trialing.

I’m having too much Bluetooth weirdness, as others have reported here and there, and a bunch of “not waking my monitor from sleep” that is annoying as hell.

No other Mac, Hack or PC I have has ever had issues with this (the monitor been around here for a decade).

I love the performance and the roadmap of where these Apple will go, but I’m not ready to have issues like these. Way too annoying and constant.

The MBA is great in its own, but I need to dock it all the time and thus these issues are showstoppers.

So close. Just not yet ready for prime time, for me anyhow.

I mean, anyone buying an Apple Silicon Mac at this particular point in the transition is doing so before they're ready for prime time. Like, I won't say that it's a public beta test as I'm pretty sure that the hardware is stable enough (especially considering that it's similar enough to each M1 Mac's respective direct Intel predecessor to not entail any differences in components that aren't related to the SoC itself). But as far as there being rough edges with regards to the OS, apps, and firmware, I'd say we're definitely in early territory. I don't say that with the goal of making you feel stupid. More to say that there's no harm in coming to the conclusion that you've come to.

That said, I might stick it out a little longer. The hardware is probably fine. All that means is that software and/or firmware will eventually improve things.

My one beef with the Mac platform is that the quality control for the operating system has gone way downhill in the past decade compared to what it was in the one that preceded it. I don't know that Apple Silicon will improve upon this over Intel (my guess is that it really won't). But certainly, from the standpoint of this being a big processor architecture transition (and then some!), things will eventually get smoother.

Perhaps time to upgrade? Sometimes retro hardware doesn't play well with modern computers.
10 years isn't SO old for a monitor that it won't play with current hardware. Worst case scenario, the OP is rocking a monitor with VGA (which is still included on the vast majority of consumer monitors for some reason) and DVI. DVI may not be as common today, but it's the video component of HDMI and HDMI is a contender for the poster child of the word "ubiquity". All that to say, it's still a heavily used video output standard even if it's an uncommon port. A far cry from "retro".
That's all modern hardware. I think the OP might be having trouble with some older stuff. From personal experience I know it can be a PITA. I try to match up my older stuff with other older stuff to avoid some issues like this.
Again, a ten year old monitor isn't THAT different from a current monitor. Monitors don't evolve as drastically as the computers they typically attach to.
great to hear!
Wish I’d been so lucky.

I really really really was into these in terms of performance but I can’t have niggling issues

Do you have a magic trackpad?
That was where most of my Bluetooth issues were - very odd.

I thought maybe it was Big Sur but now I’m not so sure because my hackintosh on Big Sur with the same magic trackpad has no issues at all
The first generation Magic Trackpads (and Magic Mice and the first couple generations of battery-replacable Bluetooth keyboards for that matter) are notoriously annoying when it comes to dropping connection and requiring re-pairing. My first ever IT gig entailed tickets where I'd have to go upstairs to the design department to basically re-pair all the Apple wireless devices. It was a pain, but decent exercise.
This is still a really nice Dell monitor that has no issues with anything else I’ve ever plugged into it.

That said, I would consider upgrading if Apple would make a nice first party display below the XDR. I really want that 5k panel on its own.
You shouldn't have to upgrade your monitor. Again, unless we're talking about an old square VGA-only monitor, there shouldn't be any reason why it's causing you issues unless it is dying on its own.

As for first-party displays that are below the price realm of the Pro XDR, the LG Ultrafine displays are effectively the same resolutions as both sizes of current Retina iMac. They may not be first-party outright, but Apple was using them in their stores to attach to display model Mac minis and 2013 Mac Pros for a good while. It was their official recommended third party monitor during the weird period of time where they weren't producing their own monitor (but still had Thunderbolt 3 Macs that could drive it). Plus, they have built-in webcams and USB-C ports for expansion!
Come. On.

I like Apple as much as the next, but let's not pretend like that webcam is great for 2020
I'm not going to pretend that webcam is awesome for 2020. However, I will say that there aren't many (if any) 13" laptops in that price category with cams that beat 720p. If anything, the M1's image post-processing DOES help. But due to how thin the displays are (especially compared to that of the iPhone or iPad where there's usually more thickness to allow for a nicer camera), it's probably the best we're going to get on a notebook for a while. The 27" iMac and the iMac Pro both got beefier cameras because the thickness allows for it. Why the 21.5" iMac is still 720p is beyond me. But that machine is so clearly getting an imminent upgrade to Apple Silicon, it's not even funny.
 

smoking monkey

macrumors 68020
Mar 5, 2008
2,363
1,508
I HUNGER
The whole concept of buying a machine just for a muck about and then returning it is morally wrong in my books. The number of people who do this on this site blows me away. If you want it, buy it, otherwise you're just making it worse for everybody else. No wonder times are out to 4-5 weeks. Return it if you got problems, that's fine, but everything else is just selfish.
 

SlCKB0Y

macrumors 68040
Feb 25, 2012
3,431
557
Sydney, Australia
I am not paying a premium to Apple
I don't really agree with the premise that we are still paying a premium to Apple with the M1 Macs.

Go and look at the prices for the Dell XPS 13s, which are probably the closest competitor to the MBA and these M1s smoke them in every regard

The $999 MBA when compared to the $1079 (on sale from $1159) base model XPS 13:
  • Destroys it in CPU performance
  • Beats it in almost all GPU tests
  • Is silent
  • Runs much cooler
  • Does not CPU throttle anywhere near as much
  • Faster storage
  • Double the battery life
  • Has a slightly dimmer but much higher resolution screen
  • Better trackpad
  • Better webcam
  • Better speakers and mic.
The Dell has:
  • Smaller screen bezels
Where is this Apple premium?
 
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turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Original poster
Mar 19, 2008
17,392
40,169
As much as the M1 MacBook Air is everything I was expecting (& I've been extremely pro Apple Silicon since the very first whisperings, even pre solid rumours) I can't get around the fact it's still a 13" computer and that means I'd only be able to use it as a home casual consumption device. That puts it in contention with the 13" iPad which, as I will need a larger MacBook anyway, is a better companion that opens up more functionality with the pencil and touch input. So no M1 macs for me, but I am very excited for the AS (M1X?) 16" and the A14X iPad Pro coming up :D

Yes, I'm excited for what they do with a next gen MacBook with M chips, larger screens and perhaps a rethink on the design again. I'm hoping that rumored 14" is upon us early in 2021 to see where Apple is planning to take things.

I **really** hope they make a larger MacBook Air with ASi too. They finally have the chips that can do it.

I've always wanted a larger screen again, but don't need a full blown pro workstation portable in terms of the internals.
 

Mcdevidr

macrumors 6502a
Nov 27, 2013
793
368
This is still a really nice Dell monitor that has no issues with anything else I’ve ever plugged into i
That said, I would consider upgrading if Apple would make a nice first party display below the XDR. I really want that 5k panel on its own.

The 5k Panel that is used in the iMac is available under the LG ultra Fine brand. I had the 4k one for a while using it with the M1 and it is pretty nice. The price is a bit overkill but is what it is.
 

senttoschool

macrumors 68030
Nov 2, 2017
2,626
5,482
Come. On.

I like Apple as much as the next, but let's not pretend like that webcam is great for 2020
Just out of curiosity, why is having a 720p webcam such a hindrance for you? Do you want your coworkers and family to see every pore on your face?

There's probably a good reason why Apple hasn't upgraded it to 1080p. My guess is that 90% of MBA buyers simply don't care.

I personally don't care. I'm not using my face to make money. I'm not a streamer. It's completely adequate for me. I'd rather Apple give us 16GB of RAM standard than to upgrade the webcam to 1080p.
 

1240766

Cancelled
Nov 2, 2020
264
376
this thread is funny ....
Just out of curiosity, why is having a 720p webcam such a hindrance for you? Do you want your coworkers and family to see every pore on your face?

There's probably a good reason why Apple hasn't upgraded it to 1080p. My guess is that 90% of MBA buyers simply don't care.

The OP is justifying the return... I am on zoom for hours throughout the day and love the 720p webcam, absolutely NOTHING wrong there - PERFECT for what is intended!
 
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1240766

Cancelled
Nov 2, 2020
264
376
nonsense.
the returns had ZERO to do with the webcam

that was simply an additional comment.

you are picking on things YOU find limitations on the M1 because YOU are using old hardware which is not running well with the new tech.... just return the thing and move on... looks like the vast majority is very happy (I included), and again with ZERO/ZARO issues ... :)
 
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