Ivy Bridge Mac Mini

[Yebubbleman]

Here you go. Replacing HD on a MacMini 2011

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing-Mac-Mini-Mid-2011-Hard-Drive-Replacement/6422/1

See the text to Step 16.

Apple warranty information

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=13946

Note the language Apple uses here. They say that replacing "customer-installable parts" doesn't void the warranty. On the unibody MacBook Pro models as well as the Mac Pro, the hard drive is considered a customer-installable part", or the Mac mini and the iMac it isn't. Again, I worked at an Apple Authorized Service Provider for long enough to know these things inside and out.

Post #13 in this thread links to the video
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1310231/

Interesting. I've always done it the way the service manual says, and that's to partially remove the logic board. Well there you go then, I suppose. That being said, replacing the drives on the Mac mini should still require fewer steps, which was the main point I was trying to make posts back before people became nit-picky with that detail. Still though, thanks for providing that video.

I really don't understand the hate of the Mac Mini here.

Sure, it's a bit expensive but every Apple product is more expensive than it should be for the specs you get. Especially the 15" and 17" MBP. You can get business laptops with the same specs for nearly half and that unibody is not worth that much.

I just love the mini because I like to have a dedicated desktop, I hate the hassle of having just one laptop and no desktop. My desktop is always there when I need it, no need to take it out of my bag and plug it in.

Any computer should be quiet in my opinion and the mini does that well. I don't care too much about size (unless it's not like the pro or something), but I wouldn't go for an iMac because I hate glossy screens.

Also, I use my screen for other things as well, such as my Xbox. You can't do that with an iMac (the new 27" only accepts input from Thunderbolt Macs). For me that's a big feature because I have limited space.

For me the mini offers excellent performance and price. Of course there's the premium but that comes with the Mac territory. You can easily get more bang for your buck with a hackintosh but I want my computer to just work without hassle and not to worry every time there's an update. A hackintosh is a cool trick but no comparison to a real Mac.

Well, no, it does compare to a real Mac, but again, if you would rather not put yourself through what is needed to make a Hackintosh, then yes, it is Apple's cheapest (and probably most reliable next to the Mac Pro) desktop, in which case, by all means, get one. For that, they're perfect. That being said, Hackintoshing gets easier with each passing build of OS X; it's no trickier than that hard drive replacement is. And given that it is an alternative to an Apple branded desktop (where such a thing isn't as comparable of an option on the laptop) and it provides you with much more power than a Mac mini for its cost, it's still one worth considering.

There is only one thing macrumors dwellers hate more than minis. And that is people who buy mac pros.
"Why do you need such a powerful machine?" They´ll scream
"you're better off with a mini for those needs"

Of course, we know that they also hate the minis... sooo its a vicious cycle

 

[iamthedudeman]

See the text to Step 16.



Note the language Apple uses here. They say that replacing "customer-installable parts" doesn't void the warranty. On the unibody MacBook Pro models as well as the Mac Pro, the hard drive is considered a customer-installable part", or the Mac mini and the iMac it isn't. Again, I worked at an Apple Authorized Service Provider for long enough to know these things inside and out.



Interesting. I've always done it the way the service manual says, and that's to partially remove the logic board. Well there you go then, I suppose. That being said, replacing the drives on the Mac mini should still require fewer steps, which was the main point I was trying to make posts back before people became nit-picky with that detail. Still though, thanks for providing that video.



Well, no, it does compare to a real Mac, but again, if you would rather not put yourself through what is needed to make a Hackintosh, then yes, it is Apple's cheapest (and probably most reliable next to the Mac Pro) desktop, in which case, by all means, get one. For that, they're perfect. That being said, Hackintoshing gets easier with each passing build of OS X; it's no trickier than that hard drive replacement is. And given that it is an alternative to an Apple branded desktop (where such a thing isn't as comparable of an option on the laptop) and it provides you with much more power than a Mac mini for its cost, it's still one worth considering.

I don't really care where you worked. just because the place you worked didn't follow apple's terms or service means nothing. You don't know what I know or who I deal with. So you saying one thing and I another is meaningless. I have a business contract with apple and do know for a fact that replacing the HD does not void your warranty.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=13946

"On that note, Apple’s policy on upgrading the Mac mini yourself has always been that as long as you don’t break anything in the process, your warranty is still valid. I confirmed with Apple that this is, indeed, still the case with the newest Mac mini. However, the company contends that because the new mini includes at least 320GB of hard-drive space—and you can upgrade at the time of purchase to 500GB for $100—there’s less of a need to upgrade the hard drive than when the mini shipped with only 160GB."

http://www.macworld.com/article/152061/2010/06/macmini2010handson.html


Should be easier. I agree. But it is not hard.

Like I said you miss the point of the Mac Mini in the first place. Depending on how you configure the Mini it is not the cheapest. Or under performing desktop Apple makes. The mini Server is faster than all the imacs save for the i7 model. That is alot of power in a small form factor.

 

[iamthedudeman]

I've worked at an Apple Authorized Service Provider as an Apple Certified Macintosh Technician. Not to toot my own horn, but I know for a fact that you are wrong about that. For one, the only officially user-servicable parts on that machine are the bottom cover and the RAM. That's it. If they find that someone not certified or working for a certified outfit or an Apple Store as a Genius Bar worker has cracked that thing open, they can and will deny a covered-under-warranty repair. Period. That said, if they open up the machine and can't tell that such a repair was done, then they can't declare the warranty voided. If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it...you hopefully get the point.



Comparing the Mac mini to a similar (or even the same) class of product made by Dell and HP is one thing. Comparing it to the breadth of other options out there let alone comparing its internals to other computers using the exact same CPUs and North and South Bridges from Intel is another. Going with the former comparison, I'm not shocked that Apple's engineering beats anyone else's, but that's not as much my point as the latter comparison. That and mini machines are pointless unless you need a portable machine that isn't a laptop (and really how many people out there fit that specific niche?) or if you demand a silent machine that also isn't a laptop. If that's you, fine. Mazel Tov. If it isn't, then what's the point of spending $600 for a desktop with the same internals as a $500 laptop?



This further demonstrates my point that Apple charges way too much for way too little of a machine.



See that's where your evangelical Apple Fanboyism shows itself. Being that this is macrumors.com and that I'm also an Apple Fanboy, I won't fault you, but I think you fail to grasp some key things here.

For one, about the only amazing thing about this current mini from any technological or engineering standpoint is the fact that the chassis is one part and that every other part snaps into it as well as it does. Barring that, there's nothing really amazing about it. From a servicing standpoint, it's almost worse to deal with than the Late 2009 and earlier Mac minis, and again, I don't care whether it's a mini or a full-blown workstation tower, they are not constrained with a thinness requirement like they are with laptops; they are not constrained with a weight requirement like they are with laptops; it should be as easy to replace any part in the Mac mini as it is in any of the Unibody MacBook Pro models, let alone any PC desktop out there. Period. If it's not, then the engineering could stand to be improved. And for the nonsense premium for an Apple branded desktop that saves me an afternoon of Hackintoshing, I had better get that improved engineering.

That being said, the parts in that "cheapo Windows box" would be not only higher quality, but FASTER IN EVERY POSSIBLE WAY. For the cost of a Mac mini with a Dual-Core i5 and a AMD Radeon 6630M, you could build a high-quality system with a quad-core i5 and a Radeon 6770 (notice the lack of the "M" at the end of that). And yes, I could have Lion running stably on it. So aside from a quieter running computer and being spared the hassle of looking up how to get whatever specific configuration up and running, I fail to see how Apple's "amazing engineering" is worth the cost. Really, if you refuse to go with a Hackintosh because you lack the patience and/or technical skill for it (which I can respect), and have no need to ever take the computer anywhere, AND find a Mac Pro too much for your needs, THEN AND ONLY THEN is a Mac mini a sensible computer.



I don't need a silent computer that somehow isn't a laptop. For those that fit that niche, it's a perfect computer. But for everyone else, it's an overpriced underpowered Mac desktop.



So, I've consulted the official Apple Service Manuals to both the Mid 2010 models and the Mid 2011 models as well as the iFixit guides for both machines. All three resources confirmed that you do have to at least partially remove the logic board to replace the drives (completely if it is the second drive). So unless you are following a magical third guide that magically circumvents this procedure, I'm gonna have to call BS on your claim there.

That being said, I never said it was a hard procedure. Getting one's oil changed in their car isn't a hard procedure; but how many people know how to do it? How many people would be willing to do it? Doing this task on a MacBook Pro is as simple as removing 14 screws (10 for the bottom plate, 4 for the drive), unplugging the battery cable, replacing the drive, replugging in the battery cable and redoing the screws. The fact that it isn't this simple on the Mac mini, let alone any "mini" computer made by any computer manufacturer is stupid. Period. I'm sorry if you disagree.



If small and quiet are the things you look for in a computer, fan-freakin'-tastic. Personally, I don't understand the need for "small", but I can at least fathom situations where "quiet" is beneficial. Do I feel like I should have to pay a premium for small? Not at all. But Apple doesn't give me that choice. I'm sure that most Mac mini customers would be fine with a machine with twice the thickness if it meant shaving off a one to two hundred off the price tag. Frankly, the Mac mini's unibody engineering does nothing for me that I didn't get with the Late 2009 and earlier Mac minis. At least the Unibody MacBook Pros make the machines drastically sturdier and easier to service than their predecessors. But hey man, if you like tooting Apple's horn, don't let me stop you.



The only reason you'd want to replace the monitor on those machines is if they broke. Otherwise, each of those machines supports any external display...just like the Mac mini. And for the most part, the only time the iMac or MacBook Pro displays ever break is if the user is stupid and breaks them.



Desktop parts get you better bang for buck. When I buy a new computer, I don't buy the one that looks the sleekest. I'm buying it because I need it to get a job done. I'm buying it because it serves a utility function. Toward that end, I think the MacBook Pros are fantastic machines because they are well-engineered (far better than even the closest competitor) and for what they are, they're only marginally costlier than the competition. That said, Hackintoshing a laptop will never yield you with anywhere near as stable of a machine, and even if it did, that machine would have terrible build quality.

Building your own tower for Mac OS X on the other hand would yield just as high quality of a machine, that is faster, tons more upgradable, and costs less. Oh yeah, and it's no harder to do that, and set it up so that OS X system updates aren't at all a pain, than it is to replace the hard drive in a Mac mini. I'd argue that it's actually easier. So again, aside from a quiet machine, what exactly am I getting for my $600-800?

You are truely clueless. You are look at everything from your perspective and what you would want. I got news for you, not everyone wants what you do.

Being a engineer who owns my own business I appreciate the fact that the engineering of the Mac Mini is simply amazing. No fanboy skepticism.

That being said the warranty is not void if you replace the HD. I have my IT guys replace the HD on them all the time. Order the parts from Apple and to it them selves. Not one time has the warranty been voided in anyway.

Is there a PC that performs as well as the Mini in a similar form factor. Name one. At the same or better price?

Mobile parts and desktop parts performance wise is hardly a difference at all. The Macbook pros and Mac Mini server are faster than just about every imac there is except for the i7. Which the high end i7 2.5 is on par with on the Mac book pros. So how is the Mini underpowered?

We get that you are clueless about engineering. No problem there.



The last revision of the Mac Mini to the current models there was a huge difference in performance. Wrong again.

 

[Yebubbleman]

I don't really care where you worked. just because the place you worked didn't follow apple's terms or service means nothing.

What about "I worked for an Apple Authorized Service Provider" do you not understand? Even better, what do you accomplish with the "I don't care where you worked" argument? Or is that your way of avoiding having to admit that you're wrong? In any event, by working at an Apple Authorized Service Provider one has to follow Apple's terms religiously, and have their ACMT certification; something you clearly don't have or know a single thing about.

You don't know what I know or who I deal with.

Are you an Apple Insider? Are you the Easter Bunny? Are you Santa Claus? I'm dying to know, man!

So you saying one thing and I another is meaningless. I have a business contract with apple and do know for a fact that replacing the HD does not void your warranty.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=13946

Apple doesn't consider the hard drive on the Mac mini to be a user-installable part. They do on the white MacBook and the Unibody MacBook Pros and the Mac Pro. They don't on any Mac mini nor any iMac. Period. This renders that document (which, if you had been paying attention, had already been brought to my attention and debunked earlier) unsupportive to your argument.

"On that note, Apple’s policy on upgrading the Mac mini yourself has always been that as long as you don’t break anything in the process, your warranty is still valid. I confirmed with Apple that this is, indeed, still the case with the newest Mac mini. However, the company contends that because the new mini includes at least 320GB of hard-drive space—and you can upgrade at the time of purchase to 500GB for $100—there’s less of a need to upgrade the hard drive than when the mini shipped with only 160GB."

http://www.macworld.com/article/152061/2010/06/macmini2010handson.html

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it...

If you are able to swap drives and no one is any the wiser, then who is to say that your warranty is voided? Still that being said, Apple doesn't permit it and they are well within their rights to void your warranty if they see that you have replaced the drive yourself. I'm telling you this as someone who clearly has had much more dealings with Apple and AppleCare as part of my living than you will ever have, either as an engineer, a business contractor, or even your company's CEO.

Should be easier. I agree. But it is not hard.

I never said it was hard. I said that it's stupid that it isn't easier. It looks like we're finally in agreement on that.

Like I said you miss the point of the Mac Mini in the first place. Depending on how you configure the Mini it is not the cheapest. Or under performing desktop Apple makes. The mini Server is faster than all the imacs save for the i7 model. That is alot of power in a small form factor.

The Mac mini is the best Mac desktop out there for those who don't want to get their hands dirty with Hackintoshing and who don't require the muscle or expandability of a Mac Pro. Period. That said, if we're talking about stuff that is not hard, Hackintoshing isn't. And at that point, a Mac mini is a waste of money unless a quiet machine is a must-have.

Unless a quiet machine is what you're after, a Mac mini is a terrible deal, because you can get a much more powerful machine running Mac OS X for slightly less than what the mini costs. As for missing the point of the Mac mini, aside from it being quiet, and small (though really, who cares about that), the only other thing it has going for itself is that it's sleek, and I'm sorry, but my Mac is a tool not a fashion accessory.

You are truely clueless. You are look at everything from your perspective and what you would want. I got news for you, not everyone wants what you do.

Yes, and for them the Mac mini is a fantastic machine. I just helped my stepfather pick out one the other day; I think for him, as someone who would never be up for running a Hackintosh, let alone one as his primary computer, it's a great machine, if not the best one available to him today.

Being a engineer who owns my own business I appreciate the fact that the engineering of the Mac Mini is simply amazing. No fanboy skepticism.

You have yet to enlighten me on what's so amazing about the Mac mini's engineering save for the fact that its engineering allows it to be quiet (fine, if that's your thing, then more power to you), portable (though who really needs that), and better than the mini computers of the competition. As an engineer who owns his/her own business, please enlighten me. For I must be too stupid to get it.

That being said the warranty is not void if you replace the HD. I have my IT guys replace the HD on them all the time. Order the parts from Apple and to it them selves. Not one time has the warranty been voided in anyway.

Are they Apple Certified and do the new drives come from GSX? Do you even know what GSX even is? Why am I even asking you these questions, you clearly don't.

Is there a PC that performs as well as the Mini in a similar form factor. Name one. At the same or better price?

No one buys PCs with that form factor because other options exist. Such isn't the case for Apple at that the sub-$1000 price point, so those wanting the cheapest Apple-branded Mac default to the Mac mini. That said, I fail to see what's so amazing about that form factor to begin with. I think most would rather pay less and get more than have a quiet svelte machine that doesn't offer as much bang for buck.

Mobile parts and desktop parts performance wise is hardly a difference at all.

Please cite benchmarks. Because last I checked, this was completely wrong.

The Macbook pros and Mac Mini server are faster than just about every imac there is except for the i7. Which the high end i7 2.5 is on par with on the Mac book pros. So how is the Mini underpowered?

Because as far as "Desktop" machines, it doesn't benchmark anywhere near as high as other things that one could buy for the same price. Yeah, fine, for the form factor, it's aggressively priced. That doesn't negate the fact that it's an underpowered form factor that yields a very poor bang for buck ratio.

We get that you are clueless about engineering. No problem there.

It's okay, we clearly get that you are clueless about computers and how they are supposed to be serviced. No problem there.

The last revision of the Mac Mini to the current models there was a huge difference in performance. Wrong again.

What are you even talking about here? Do you even know?

 

[iamthedudeman]

What about "I worked for an Apple Authorized Service Provider" do you not understand? Even better, what do you accomplish with the "I don't care where you worked" argument? Or is that your way of avoiding having to admit that you're wrong? In any event, by working at an Apple Authorized Service Provider one has to follow Apple's terms religiously, and have their ACMT certification; something you clearly don't have or know a single thing about.

How would you know what I know and do not know. You assume way too much.


What did you not understand that my IT dept changes out the HD's out all the time on the Mini Servers at my place of business and ordered the HD's from Apple via my business contract. I have a business contract with Apple same as your place of business has a contract with Apple. So I know what is allowed and what isn't. I neg. the contract myself. I know quite a bit more than someone who has taken a few classes and thinks that he knows everything.

I provided two links saying differently. You think that you take some classes and that makes you a expert.

You don't know who I am or what I do or what I know and don't know. Apple said it them selves it doesn't void the warranty. But you know better than Apple.

Your place of business even thought it is a authorized provider of services does not mean what ever contract you have in place with Apple you have to abide by. If your business is only allowed to service Apple machines to a certain extent and that extent does not allow any third party parts into any Apple machines. Of coarse you would think that Apple doesn't allow such things. Being a authorized provider does not mean that your business has the same rules and guidelines as Apple. Apple sets the rules and guidelines based on your companies capabilities to service their products. It's as simple as that.

Apple at their discretion can disallow warranty coverage of any third party part that is put into their warranted machines if they want to regardless of the circumstances. Every business that is under contract with Apple who is a authorized apple provider does not have the same discretion as Apple does.
Hence the no coverage for third party parts.

Are you an Apple Insider? Are you the Easter Bunny? Are you Santa Claus? I'm dying to know, man!

I am the easter bunny. Get over it.

Apple doesn't consider the hard drive on the Mac mini to be a user-installable part. They do on the white MacBook and the Unibody MacBook Pros and the Mac Pro. They don't on any Mac mini nor any iMac. Period. This renders that document (which, if you had been paying attention, had already been brought to my attention and debunked earlier) unsupportive to your argument.



Really. Did you know with the original Mini in the user manual it provided directions on how to replace the HD. Apple even had a tool to remove the bottom cover to complete such a task. A tool provided by Apple to remove the HD. As for the rest-See above.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it...

If you are able to swap drives and no one is any the wiser, then who is to say that your warranty is voided? Still that being said, Apple doesn't permit it and they are well within their rights to void your warranty if they see that you have replaced the drive yourself. I'm telling you this as someone who clearly has had much more dealings with Apple and AppleCare as part of my living than you will ever have, either as an engineer, a business contractor, or even your company's CEO.


Lol. hahaha. Wow. Your a comedian too. Now you know what dealings I have with Apple. Ok. Again see above.


I never said it was hard. I said that it's stupid that it isn't easier. It looks like we're finally in agreement on that.

I am glad we can agree on something.



The Mac mini is the best Mac desktop out there for those who don't want to get their hands dirty with Hackintoshing and who don't require the muscle or expandability of a Mac Pro. Period. That said, if we're talking about stuff that is not hard, Hackintoshing isn't. And at that point, a Mac mini is a waste of money unless a quiet machine is a must-have.

Unless a quiet machine is what you're after, a Mac mini is a terrible deal, because you can get a much more powerful machine running Mac OS X for slightly less than what the mini costs. As for missing the point of the Mac mini, aside from it being quiet, and small (though really, who cares about that), the only other thing it has going for itself is that it's sleek, and I'm sorry, but my Mac is a tool not a fashion accessory.

We get it that the Mini isn't for you. But to suggest that a Hackintosh is easier or a more elegant solution just goes to show your mentality. No offence but my guess is that you are a young buck trying to prove a point and failing badly. Why are you on a Mini forum in the first place?

Did you ever find a more powerfull PC with the same form factor or the build quality of the Mini? Underpowered it is not. The Mini is one of a kind there is simply nothing like it out there. That is why people pay the premium. For OSX, the engineering, the small form factor. You can put in on your desk out of the way and you wouldnt' know it's there. Try doing that with a hackintosh.




Yes, and for them the Mac mini is a fantastic machine. I just helped my stepfather pick out one the other day; I think for him, as someone who would never be up for running a Hackintosh, let alone one as his primary computer, it's a great machine, if not the best one available to him today.

Thats nice. When you say them don't you mean most of the people on this forum.



You have yet to enlighten me on what's so amazing about the Mac mini's engineering save for the fact that its engineering allows it to be quiet (fine, if that's your thing, then more power to you), portable (though who really needs that), and better than the mini computers of the competition. As an engineer who owns his/her own business, please enlighten me. For I must be too stupid to get it.

Yes you are. That is all that I will say on that.



Are they Apple Certified and do the new drives come from GSX? Do you even know what GSX even is? Why am I even asking you these questions, you clearly don't.

Yeah I don't know what that is. Only you do with your few classes that you have under your belt. The Global Service Exchange system is used by my IT guys quite often. My contract with Apple is a Self-Servicing Account that falls under the(SSA) program.

This is from the warranty of the Mac Mini. No where does it say that putting a third party part voids the warranty. Only if you damage your device is the warranty void.

This warranty does not apply: (a) to consumable parts, such as batteries, unless failure has
occurred due to a defect in materials or workmanship; (b) to cosmetic damage, including
but not limited to scratches, dents and broken plastic on ports; (c) to damage caused by use
with another product; (d) to damage caused by accident, abuse, misuse, liquid contact, fire,
earthquake or other external cause; (e) to damage caused by operating the Apple Product
outside Apple’s published guidelines; (f) to damage caused by service (including upgrades
and expansions) performed by anyone who is not a representative of Apple or an Apple
Authorized Service Provider (“AASP”); (g) to an Apple Product that has been modified to
alter functionality or capability without the written permission of Apple; (h) to defects
caused by normal wear and tear or otherwise due to the normal aging of the Apple Product,
or (i) if any serial number has been removed or defaced from the Apple Product.

"damage caused by service (including upgrades
and expansions)"



No one buys PCs with that form factor because other options exist. Such isn't the case for Apple at that the sub-$1000 price point, so those wanting the cheapest Apple-branded Mac default to the Mac mini. That said, I fail to see what's so amazing about that form factor to begin with. I think most would rather pay less and get more than have a quiet svelte machine that doesn't offer as much bang for buck.

Your opinion.



Please cite benchmarks. Because last I checked, this was completely wrong.

http://www.primatelabs.ca/geekbench/mac-benchmarks/

Other than the Mac Pro and the i7 imac the Mac book pros across the board outperform their desktop cousins. So does the Mac Mini server.



Because as far as "Desktop" machines, it doesn't benchmark anywhere near as high as other things that one could buy for the same price. Yeah, fine, for the form factor, it's aggressively priced. That doesn't negate the fact that it's an underpowered form factor that yields a very poor bang for buck ratio.

No it doesn't and it was not meant to. Again you don't get it. The concept is lost on you totally. We are talking about Macs are we not?

If you want the ultimate in performance with OSX you buy a Mac Pro. Underpowered against what? Certainly not it's desktop cousin the imac. The mac mini server trumps all but the i7 imacs. The i7 mac mini is as fast as the 21.5 imac. Not the i7 version mind you.



It's okay, we clearly get that you are clueless about computers and how they are supposed to be serviced. No problem there.

Ok.Only you know with your cert. Lol.



What are you even talking about here? Do you even know?

No please enlighten us. Lol.

 

[fridgeymonster3]

Did you ever find a more powerfull PC with the same form factor or the build quality of the Mini? Underpowered it is not. The Mini is one of a kind there is simply nothing like it out there. That is why people pay the premium. For OSX, the engineering, the small form factor. You can put in on your desk out of the way and you wouldnt' know it's there. Try doing that with a hackintosh.

To be fair, you can build a powerful hackintosh mini using the Mini ITX form factor. Now, a hackintosh mini ITX case will still be 2.5-3 times as large as a the current mac mini footprint, but still pretty close.

A hackintosh mini can be cheaper and much more powerful than the current mac mini, but it is only for people that want to go through the process for the fun of it, and people who already have other computers so they do not experience any downtime.

I'm thinking of building one just for the experience and the expandability. I already enjoy the stability of my Mac Pro and Macbook Pro, so if I screw up on my Hackintosh once in a while it doesn't matter.

 

[Acorn]

There is only one thing macrumors dwellers hate more than minis. And that is people who buy mac pros.
"Why do you need such a powerful machine?" They´ll scream
"you're better off with a mini for those needs"

Of course, we know that they also hate the minis... sooo its a vicious cycle

they are already benchmarks available on the web that show the top end imac is more powerful then the mac pros. the mac pros are old. When they get updated, yea it may impress me. right now though i think it would be stupid to buy a mac pro over an imac when the imac is better bang for your buck. the huge speed avantage isnt there anymore.

 

[Adamantoise]

they are already benchmarks available on the web that show the top end imac is more powerful then the mac pros. the mac pros are old. When they get updated, yea it may impress me. right now though i think it would be stupid to buy a mac pro over an imac when the imac is better bang for your buck. the huge speed avantage isnt there anymore.

Honestly, there's little to no reason to buy a Mac Pro for consumer application today.

People tend to justify their purchases by giving the most stupid reasons, but I think it boils down to user preference, and the temptation of being able to mod the machine yourself.

Personally the only Apple computers I can see myself buying are the 13" Macbook Pro and the Mac Mini ... Rest of the lineup just seems like a stupid purchase in my opinion.

Money isn't the issue either, if I get a Mini, I'll be buying a Thunderbolt Display to go with it. I just don't think the other computers in Apple's lineup are worth their asking price.

 

[Yebubbleman]

How would you know what I know and do not know. You assume way too much.

Yes, but you talk like someone who doesn't know what he or she is talking about and this is demonstrated by the things you are posting here. I don't know what you know, but I have a pretty good idea of what you DON'T know.

What did you not understand that my IT dept changes out the HD's out all the time on the Mini Servers at my place of business and ordered the HD's from Apple via my business contract. I have a business contract with Apple same as your place of business has a contract with Apple. So I know what is allowed and what isn't. I neg. the contract myself. I know quite a bit more than someone who has taken a few classes and thinks that he knows everything.

Unless you have a specific contract with Apple, allowing your ACMT-certified IT staff to both order parts and service them, then I don't care how large or skilled your IT army is, they aren't authorized by Apple to perform repairs. Period. There's a ton of language all over Apple's site that explains this. That said, if you do have that specific contract, then that's great, why are we discussing this further?

I provided two links saying differently. You think that you take some classes and that makes you a expert.

A link from Macworld explaining that "if apple can't tell that you were digging in your computer, your warranty isn't voided" (no **** sherlock!) and a link from Apple explaining that computer RAM and items deemed a "user-installable part" (as opposed to a "technician-installable part") may be installed by the user does nothing for your argument, given that THE HARD DRIVE ON A MAC MINI ISN'T CONSIDERED A USER-INSTALLABLE PART! You are, as you claim, an engineer. I am a computer repair technician. You know about as little about my line of work as I do yours. So, unless you want to go through the training that I've gone through and have the years of actually working at an AASP, quit telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about.

You don't know who I am or what I do or what I know and don't know. Apple said it them selves it doesn't void the warranty. But you know better than Apple.

What you don't know is plainly apparent. And it doesn't void the warranty if you have the aforementioned specific arrangement with Apple providing GSX to your business AND if all of your technicians are ACMT certified. Otherwise, it does. End of story.

Your place of business even thought it is a authorized provider of services does not mean what ever contract you have in place with Apple you have to abide by. If your business is only allowed to service Apple machines to a certain extent and that extent does not allow any third party parts into any Apple machines. Of coarse you would think that Apple doesn't allow such things. Being a authorized provider does not mean that your business has the same rules and guidelines as Apple. Apple sets the rules and guidelines based on your companies capabilities to service their products. It's as simple as that.

No, it means that we have to follow Apple's rules or Apple revokes their AASP branding on our business as well as GSX and their provided resources. Once machines fall out of AppleCare, it's up to us as to whether or not we use an aftermarket drive. And unless it's a recent iMac (as they don't technically allow it without some form of hacking), for cost-effectiveness' sake, we usually do.

Apple at their discretion can disallow warranty coverage of any third party part that is put into their warranted machines if they want to regardless of the circumstances. Every business that is under contract with Apple who is a authorized apple provider does not have the same discretion as Apple does.
Hence the no coverage for third party parts.

Right, but what happens if we have to send a MacBook Pro to the Repair Depot? Or do you not know about that?

I am the easter bunny. Get over it.

Sweet, now bring me some eggs and quit picking arguments that you are doing a less-than-stellar job of waging.

Really. Did you know with the original Mini in the user manual it provided directions on how to replace the HD. Apple even had a tool to remove the bottom cover to complete such a task. A tool provided by Apple to remove the HD. As for the rest-See above.

It didn't. I know this much for a fact. Though again, feel free to expend more energy to prove me wrong.

We get it that the Mini isn't for you. But to suggest that a Hackintosh is easier or a more elegant solution just goes to show your mentality. No offence but my guess is that you are a young buck trying to prove a point and failing badly. Why are you on a Mini forum in the first place?

No offense, but my guess is that you are a 15-year old trolling these forums looking to pick a fight with someone like me who is down to play ball with you. I never said that a Hackintosh was an easier or a more elegant solution than a Mac mini. I dare you to find the text where I say that, because to my knowledge it doesn't exist.

What I said was that setting up a Hackintosh is no harder than performing a hard drive swap on these current Mac minis. I'm on this forum because the OP (several thousand years ago, at this point) asked what to expect of the Ivy Bridge Mac minis and I, like everyone else threw in my unexciting two cents in.

Did you ever find a more powerfull PC with the same form factor or the build quality of the Mini? Underpowered it is not. The Mini is one of a kind there is simply nothing like it out there. That is why people pay the premium. For OSX, the engineering, the small form factor. You can put in on your desk out of the way and you wouldnt' know it's there. Try doing that with a hackintosh.

It is an underpowered form factor. Period. The fact that it is best in its class means nothing if the class itself is, at best, worse than just about any other computer you could get for the price in terms of sheer performance. And again, please enlighten me, who cares about it being small again? Why do I need to not know it's there?

Again, while I love Apple and will probably always be a Mac user, I will never understand the overwhelming obsession with form over function. The MacBook Air, the Mac mini, and the iMac are all horrible victims of more form than function. At least the MacBook Pro and the Mac Pro have a completely even mix of the two.

Thats nice. When you say them don't you mean most of the people on this forum.

The entire MacRumors forums, no. The Mac mini sub-section of the MacRumors forums, yes.

Yeah I don't know what that is. Only you do with your few classes that you have under your belt. The Global Service Exchange system is used by my IT guys quite often. My contract with Apple is a Self-Servicing Account that falls under the(SSA) program.

See if you had revealed that tidbit say, five or six forum posts ago, we wouldn't be arguing about it now. I mean, if you're in it to troll, I can respect that, but if you want an efficient argument, you're doing it wrong.

No one buys PCs with that form factor because other options exist. Such isn't the case for Apple at that the sub-$1000 price point, so those wanting the cheapest Apple-branded Mac default to the Mac mini. That said, I fail to see what's so amazing about that form factor to begin with. I think most would rather pay less and get more than have a quiet svelte machine that doesn't offer as much bang for buck.

Your opinion.

Do you have data to prove otherwise? I worked for many years dealing with people wanting a powerful Mac for the Mac mini's price-point, and for that price-point, it's not like it'd be impossible to make a more powerful machine even with the supposed "Apple Tax" on the top.

Please cite benchmarks. Because last I checked, this was completely wrong.

http://www.primatelabs.ca/geekbench/mac-benchmarks/

Other than the Mac Pro and the i7 imac the Mac book pros across the board outperform their desktop cousins. So does the Mac Mini server.

Check how much cache each of those CPUs has, and I'm sure you'll find a more interesting comparison there. A mobile CPU with 8MB of L2 Cache will definitely match a desktop CPU with 6MB of L2 Cache. The MacBook Pro models being compared there are the higher-end BTO models with the CPUs with higher cache. Give them both the same Cache though and you'll see that the desktop one is noticeably better. It kind of doesn't matter in the Mac world because you either need a discrete GPU, or you don't, and beyond that, you either need the performance of a Mac Pro or you don't; anything within those decisions will be comparable enough to each other that it really won't matter (though I'll argue that unless your discrete GPU needs are minimal, the AMD Radeon HD 6630M in the higher-end Mac mini is weaksauce).

Because as far as "Desktop" machines, it doesn't benchmark anywhere near as high as other things that one could buy for the same price. Yeah, fine, for the form factor, it's aggressively priced. That doesn't negate the fact that it's an underpowered form factor that yields a very poor bang for buck ratio.

No it doesn't and it was not meant to. Again you don't get it. The concept is lost on you totally. We are talking about Macs are we not?

So not only do you admit that the Mac mini has a poor bang to buck ratio, but you tell me that I'm not getting it? What's there not to get? Apple wants to force form over function with the Mac mini and given that their choices for those wanting an Apple-branded desktop at the low end are Mac mini or...Mac mini, they have no choice but to go with that small form-factor, which aside from being quiet offers no real practical benefit.

If you want the ultimate in performance with OSX you buy a Mac Pro. Underpowered against what? Certainly not it's desktop cousin the imac. The mac mini server trumps all but the i7 imacs. The i7 mac mini is as fast as the 21.5 imac. Not the i7 version mind you.

[

B]It's okay, we clearly get that you are clueless about computers and how they are supposed to be serviced. No problem there. [/B]

Ok.Only you know with your cert. Lol.

No, I'll bet that a lot of people know about this stuff on here. You clearly don't though. Not that I have a problem with people who don't know this stuff. But I do have a problem with people who talk like they do and clearly don't.

To be fair, you can build a powerful hackintosh mini using the Mini ITX form factor. Now, a hackintosh mini ITX case will still be 2.5-3 times as large as a the current mac mini footprint, but still pretty close.

A hackintosh mini can be cheaper and much more powerful than the current mac mini, but it is only for people that want to go through the process for the fun of it, and people who already have other computers so they do not experience any downtime.

I'm thinking of building one just for the experience and the expandability. I already enjoy the stability of my Mac Pro and Macbook Pro, so if I screw up on my Hackintosh once in a while it doesn't matter.

It is getting easier to do and not risk stability, even when running system updates. I'd say it's perfect for a second Mac.

they are already benchmarks available on the web that show the top end imac is more powerful then the mac pros. the mac pros are old. When they get updated, yea it may impress me. right now though i think it would be stupid to buy a mac pro over an imac when the imac is better bang for your buck. the huge speed avantage isnt there anymore.

The Mac Pro is tons more reliable than the iMac. The Mac mini is also tons more reliable than the iMac. The thin enclosure mixed in with full-sized desktop components (hard drives, South and North Bridges, CPUs) and gamer-laptop GPUs (which do tend to also generate a ton of heat) tend to output so much heat on that machine that it makes it unreliable. So, I usually recommend a Mac mini at the low-end and a Mac Pro at the high-end. Were it not for that I'd be recommending iMacs up and down the block.

Honestly, there's little to no reason to buy a Mac Pro for consumer application today.

People tend to justify their purchases by giving the most stupid reasons, but I think it boils down to user preference, and the temptation of being able to mod the machine yourself.

Personally the only Apple computers I can see myself buying are the 13" Macbook Pro and the Mac Mini ... Rest of the lineup just seems like a stupid purchase in my opinion.

Money isn't the issue either, if I get a Mini, I'll be buying a Thunderbolt Display to go with it. I just don't think the other computers in Apple's lineup are worth their asking price.

Not a fan of the 15" MacBook Pro? I'd actually wage the opposite opinion and say that the entire MacBook Pro line (not as much with the 13" as with the 15" and 17") is the only sensible buy from Apple and that the entire desktop line as well as the MacBook Air are completely stupid purchases (the Mac mini is excluded if you don't know much about computers and the Mac Pro is excluded if you actually need the Xeon muscle and your work is footing the bill). But yeah, user preference is what it all boils down to. With buying a Mac there's no wrong answer. There are certainly more cost-effective answers, but barring that no answer is ever wrong.

 

[Adamantoise]

Can you guys just drop it? Or take it to PM? No one but you two are going to be reading your posts in its entirety. You're making it hard to scroll down the page.

 

[philipma1957]

There's a video linked in one of the threads here (too lazy to look for it now) that shows a guy replacing both drives without removing the logic board, or even sliding it out a little.....so it can be done.

I have done more then 10 without moving the logic board. just the one hdd not the bottom.

 

[iamthedudeman]

Oh brother. Not another one of these.

Unless you have a specific contract with Apple, allowing your ACMT-certified IT staff to both order parts and service them, then I don't care how large or skilled your IT army is, they aren't authorized by Apple to perform repairs. Period. There's a ton of language all over Apple's site that explains this. That said, if you do have that specific contract, then that's great, why are we discussing this further?

You got your certificate and think you are the end all of Apple knowledge. Just because you repair Macs you know contracts too. Lol.

My contract with Apple is a Self-Servicing Account that falls under the(SSA) program. It is self explanatory. But you missed that. Or did not understand I don't know which.

A link from Macworld explaining that "if apple can't tell that you were digging in your computer, your warranty isn't voided" (no **** sherlock!) and a link from Apple explaining that computer RAM and items deemed a "user-installable part" (as opposed to a "technician-installable part") may be installed by the user does nothing for your argument, given that THE HARD DRIVE ON A MAC MINI ISN'T CONSIDERED A USER-INSTALLABLE PART!

Nowhere in the Macworld article says that. If they can't tell you were digging in your computer. Sherlock. Not once.

I am a business owner who negotiated a SSA contract with Apple myself. You are a repair tech who has a certificate. Big difference.

You are governed by the contract by the business that you work at. Your place of business are governed by Apple's guidelines which Apple sets. Most authorized service providers are not allowed to make warranty decisions based on machines that have been altered by the user. The service providers do not have the power to make the decision weather the warranty is good or not. Your place of business does not have the discretion to make that distinction. Thus Apple sets up the guide lines for your business to follow.

So it is not a as you put it THE HARD DRIVE ON A MAC MINI ISN'T CONSIDERED A USER-INSTALLABLE PART! For you and your business it isn't under the contract that your business and Apple has agreed upon. A Mac Mini is not a user installable part governed by the contract that your business and Apple has together. So for you it isn't. So if you get a Mac Mini with a user installed HD at the place where you work, your business governed by the contract you have with Apple can not service that machine.

Under the scope in which your business( or the place you work)operates you are correct. Just like my business has a SSA and am allowed to service our own equipment under Apples guidelines. Each contract is different based on the business and the nature of the business needs. But overall if you upgrade your own Mac Mini, your average joe or mr consumer. It does not automatically void the warranty. Only if you damage your machine in the process. Apple knows if you replaced the HD or not, they can see when they turn it on.

Let me explain this to you. If you bring your mac mini to a Apple store for repair, say the WiFi. They can deny your warranty because they can deem it damaged due to a upgrade. Which the article suggests is the case. I don't care what link you have or don't have. This has always been the case with the Mac Mini. Even apple had instructions on how to change the HD on the older Minis. Even had a tool to do it yourself.

http://www.macworld.com/article/152061/2010/06/macmini2010handson.html

On that note, Apple’s policy on upgrading the Mac mini yourself has always been that as long as you don’t break anything in the process, your warranty is still valid. I confirmed with Apple that this is, indeed, still the case with the newest Mac mini. However, the company contends that because the new mini includes at least 320GB of hard-drive space—and you can upgrade at the time of purchase to 500GB for $100—there’s less of a need to upgrade the hard drive than when the mini shipped with only 160GB.d

I guess you ignored this for a reason.

This warranty does not apply: (a) to consumable parts, such as batteries, unless failure has occurred due to a defect in materials or workmanship; (b) to cosmetic damage, including but not limited to scratches, dents and broken plastic on ports; (c) to damage caused by use with another product; (d) to damage caused by accident, abuse, misuse, liquid contact, fire, earthquake or other external cause; (e) to damage caused by operating the Apple Product outside Apple’s published guidelines; (f) to damage caused by service (including upgrades and expansions) performed by anyone who is not a representative of Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider (“AASP”); (g) to an Apple Product that has been modified to alter functionality or capability without the written permission of Apple; (h) to defects caused by normal wear and tear or otherwise due to the normal aging of the Apple Product,
or (i) if any serial number has been removed or defaced from the Apple Product.

"damage caused by service (including upgrades
and expansions)"

If you were to take your Mini and you put in the HD and turn it on and a RAM module it bad, take it to the store, they cannot deny the warranty. Since the RAM cannot be deemed to be damaged due to a upgrade. Is this sinking in?

Nor can the HD be serviced by Apple, since it is a third party part. But the rest of the warranty is still good if you do not damage anything in the process.

It didn't. I know this much for a fact. Though again, feel free to expend more energy to prove me wrong.

No energy required. You're doing that for me.

The entire MacRumors forums, no. The Mac mini sub-section of the MacRumors forums, yes.

So it's okay to insult the whole Mac Mini forum with your drivel. Nice one.

The MacBook Pro models being compared there are the higher-end BTO models with the CPUs with higher cache.

No there not. The i7 is standard on the 15inch and 17 inch models. But you know that already right? The base Mac Book Pros are faster than any imac other than the top end i7 imac. And the top end Mac book pros only has a few points under the top of the line imac. With Ivy bridge that performance gap will shrink further. The Mac Mini will be on par with the imac's in the not too distant future as the performance per watt goes up.

So not only do you admit that the Mac mini has a poor bang to buck ratio, but you tell me that I'm not getting it? What's there not to get? Apple wants to force form over function with the Mac mini and given that their choices for those wanting an Apple-branded desktop at the low end are Mac mini or...Mac mini, they have no choice but to go with that small form-factor, which aside from being quiet offers no real practical benefit.

No I am not. The Mac Mini's performance is not too far off from the imac. The Server outperforms all imacs other than the i7 imac. That is bang for your buck as the server costs $1000 and the i5 top end imac costs $2000. For raw power the Mac Mini server is faster. Is that form over function? Yes the GPU is weak, but there are going to be trade offs with that form factor. Yes you can build a PC for much less. But we are comparing Macs here.

It is getting easier to do and not risk stability, even when running system updates. I'd say it's perfect for a second Mac.

Okay. Lol.

 

[Ayemerica]

How is running a Hackintosh a reliable solution for the average end user?

 

[fridgeymonster3]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

Running a hackintosh is not a reliable solution for the average end user. Anybody who says otherwise is delusional. However, for the average Macrumors forum subscriber I'd guess it it would be much closer to a reliable alternative. The online forums and tutorials at Tonymacx86 or lifehacker make the process pretty easy for anyone who is semi tech savvy. Its a good side project/hobby in my opinion.

 

[thekev]

Please cite benchmarks. Because last I checked, this was completely wrong.

http://www.primatelabs.ca/geekbench/mac-benchmarks/

Other than the Mac Pro and the i7 imac the Mac book pros across the board outperform their desktop cousins. So does the Mac Mini server.

Not to lend credence to your idea that benchmark scores dictate real world performance (because they don't), but even by that metric, the 2009 and 2010 imacs remain above the mini server. I also wonder how long these benchmarks run. The lower clocked quad cores seem to rely on turbo boost to some degree even with all cores in use. The mini isn't really a very good option for anything that relies on OpenGL, and the integrated gpu in no way supports OpenCL. Quad i5 solutions lack hyperthreading, which improves performance in some cases. It's just that the benchmarks won't really tell you what to expect from it.

 

[iamthedudeman]

Not to lend credence to your idea that benchmark scores dictate real world performance (because they don't), but even by that metric, the 2009 and 2010 imacs remain above the mini server. I also wonder how long these benchmarks run. The lower clocked quad cores seem to rely on turbo boost to some degree even with all cores in use. The mini isn't really a very good option for anything that relies on OpenGL, and the integrated gpu in no way supports OpenCL. Quad i5 solutions lack hyperthreading, which improves performance in some cases. It's just that the benchmarks won't really tell you what to expect from it.

No they don't I agree. Synthetic benchmarks are not a good indicator or performance. But geekbench is the only consistent metric we have to go by right now.

I am assuming that you mean the i7 top of the line imacs. Which yes the i7 imacs from 2010 and 2009 do still outperform in geekbench the 2011 mac mini server. But they still outperform all the 2011 imacs save for the i7 2011 model. Still with that being said, the mac mini server out performs all 2011 imacs other than the i7 model.

But my point being that the Mac Mini is not slow by any means. The gap between desktop processors with sandybridge got alot smaller due to the die shrink and the performance per watt going up. And next month with Ivy Bridge the gap will get smaller still.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_Bridge_(microarchitecture)

 

[thekev]

No they don't I agree. Synthetic benchmarks are not a good indicator or performance. But geekbench is the only consistent metric we have to go by right now.

I am assuming that you mean the i7 top of the line imacs. Which yes the i7 imacs from 2010 and 2009 do still outperform in geekbench the 2011 mac mini server. But they still outperform all the 2011 imacs save for the i7 2011 model. Still with that being said, the mac mini server out performs all 2011 imacs other than the i7 model.

But my point being that the Mac Mini is not slow by any means. The gap between desktop processors with sandybridge got alot smaller due to the die shrink and the performance per watt going up. And next month with Ivy Bridge the gap will get smaller still.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_Bridge_(microarchitecture)

I get you. I'm saying that I think hyperthreading may have inflated scores in the mini's favor when comparing laptop type i7 vs desktop type i5. None of the quad i5s have it enabled (although dual i5s have it). Real application performance may vary considerably by how well they scale with hyperthreading. Also you're right about Ivy Bridge. Desktop cpus seem to be focused on lower tdp with the Ivy Bridge release. OpenGL and OpenCL performance are still dismal on the mini.

 

[philipma1957]

I get you. I'm saying that I think hyperthreading may have inflated scores in the mini's favor when comparing laptop type i7 vs desktop type i5. None of the quad i5s have it enabled (although dual i5s have it). Real application performance may vary considerably by how well they scale with hyperthreading. Also you're right about Ivy Bridge. Desktop cpus seem to be focused on lower tdp with the Ivy Bridge release. OpenGL and OpenCL performance are still dismal on the mini.

Along these lines the mac mini server is very fast at handbrake real world tests. so if you do a lot of handbrake it is the best mac to buy speed price ratio. I ran mac pro hex 3.2 cpu against mac mini server quad 2.0 price of 3000 against price of 1000

modded mac pro = 3000 price around 5 minutes

2011 mini server = 1000 price around 7 minutes

these are rounded numbers pull from my memory of august thread.

still if you run handbrake overnight 2 or 3 hours each day the mini server is the best mac has to offer

 

[iamthedudeman]

I get you. I'm saying that I think hyperthreading may have inflated scores in the mini's favor when comparing laptop type i7 vs desktop type i5. None of the quad i5s have it enabled (although dual i5s have it). Real application performance may vary considerably by how well they scale with hyperthreading. Also you're right about Ivy Bridge. Desktop cpus seem to be focused on lower tdp with the Ivy Bridge release. OpenGL and OpenCL performance are still dismal on the mini.

Hyper threading is the killer feature for the i7's over the quad desktop i5's, you are exactly right. The dual core hyper threaded i7 of the mini allows it hang with the quad desktop i5's. It defiantly inflates the scores. In single and dual threaded it doesn't mean as much which is probably every day usage for most people. The distinction between desktop and mobile processors going foward is going to get smaller and smaller with more power per watt due to each die shrink. Ivybridge 22nm, Haswell 14nm and down the line.

Interesting to see what the Mini will be performance wise to the imac on the next revision. When the Mac Book pros are released, we will probably get our answer somewhat.

 

[Confuzzzed]

You need to remove the bottom cover, the fan, the cowling, the antenna plate, the logic board, and the internal power supply if you're replacing the top drive, and same sans the power supply if you're replacing the bottom drive. If that's not hard for you, then fantastic. Otherwise, I'd highly recommend against it. It also voids your AppleCare.

That sounds hard to me. But I have seen in plenty of places that the logic board need not be removed to replace the top drive. I simply want to replace the existing 500GB 7,200rpm drive with a 256GB SSD when the price for those gets to below $300. If it's that hard, maybe I'll wait for the next generation and buy one with SSD pre-installed. And hence why I like changing my machines every year. Or at least having the option to. I won't be changing my MBA this year as the 2011 model serves all my purposes but if I get the option of quad core processor with discrete GPU then I will be changing my mac mini this year. At the end of the day, the argument I made was having the mac mini gives me more options.

 

[Confuzzzed]

Oh brother. Not another one of these.

If he's making an argument regarding processing power per dollar spend ("bang to buck ratio"), surely the market economy answer is the most obvious? Apple simply does not discount mac minis outside the refurb and educational programme. For example, it was the only machine in the portfolio that didn't get a penny off on Black Friday.

bang to buck ratio

 

[kas23]

All great arguments here. But nowhere does it explicitly say replacing the Mini's HD voids the warranty. If so, show me these exact words.

As for replacing the bottom drive, I just did so last week without moving the logic board and without even disconnecting the fan. I just removed the Wifi antenna and cowling. I can see how some would want to move the logic board out a little, but it's not necessary.

 

[thekev]

Hyper threading is the killer feature for the i7's over the quad desktop i5's, you are exactly right. The dual core hyper threaded i7 of the mini allows it hang with the quad desktop i5's. It defiantly inflates the scores. In single and dual threaded it doesn't mean as much which is probably every day usage for most people. The distinction between desktop and mobile processors going foward is going to get smaller and smaller with more power per watt due to each die shrink. Ivybridge 22nm, Haswell 14nm and down the line.

Interesting to see what the Mini will be performance wise to the imac on the next revision. When the Mac Book pros are released, we will probably get our answer somewhat.

I don't like the imac at all, so I'd choose the mini over it any day. On the minis I meant the quad model. The imacs have a higher base clock, but quad i5s lack hyperthreading. Of course that only matters if the application(s) benefit from it. The thing with Intel is that their current design methodology doesn't really work well with available software. Functions meant to be calculated based on what the user would consider real time actions don't necessarily scale well with high core counts. Intel is really developing that stuff for the servers. Amusingly people complain that some of the ultrabooks copy design elements of the macbook air, but more ultrabooks on the market will eventually benefit Apple as it means that the cpus used in the macbook airs will receive a high priority on development.

Along these lines the mac mini server is very fast at handbrake real world tests. so if you do a lot of handbrake it is the best mac to buy speed price ratio. I ran mac pro hex 3.2 cpu against mac mini server quad 2.0 price of 3000 against price of 1000

modded mac pro = 3000 price around 5 minutes

2011 mini server = 1000 price around 7 minutes

these are rounded numbers pull from my memory of august thread.

still if you run handbrake overnight 2 or 3 hours each day the mini server is the best mac has to offer

I was about to say there's no hex 3.2, but then I noted modded. It does sound really good. OpenGL performance would still kill it for me, and coming up with weird thunderbolt solutions for storage + whatever else and trying to make it all work within bandwidth wouldn't necessarily be worth it. To some degree I'm getting to the point where one cpu vs another isn't as big of a deal as it was a few years ago. Ram, gpu, ability to connect a couple large displays, enough IO ports, etc. are still issues. Apple isn't exactly generous with ports on most of their line. I'll most likely by a another mac pro once they're updated, but I don't really know if the machine that replaces that one will be similar. With the mini server it's not just integrated graphics, but poor overall gpu drivers in that unit (just like the other integrated models). Apple and Intel need to learn to work together on those. I think Intel writes most of the code, but Apple is known to be quite restrictive.

 

[philipma1957]

Well maybe the intel 4000 integrated graphics are good.

If they are 60% better then the 3000 they will good enough for a lot of users. I for one would not mind a nice quad core with decent integrated graphics. I had the 2010 mac pro for 15 months a base quad with the better gpu the 5870. I tossed in the hex 3.2 april 2011 it was a very nice machine more then I needed. Once the server minis came out with fast external storage via t-bolt i sold the mac pro.
My power bill dropped 20 dollars each month!

 

[iamthedudeman]

All great arguments here. But nowhere does it explicitly say replacing the Mini's HD voids the warranty. If so, show me these exact words.

As for replacing the bottom drive, I just did so last week without moving the logic board and without even disconnecting the fan. I just removed the Wifi antenna and cowling. I can see how some would want to move the logic board out a little, but it's not necessary.

You sir are correct. It actually says the exact opposite. Here is the Mac Mini warranty guidelines.

This warranty does not apply: (a) to consumable parts, such as batteries, unless failure has occurred due to a defect in materials or workmanship; (b) to cosmetic damage, including but not limited to scratches, dents and broken plastic on ports; (c) to damage caused by use with another product; (d) to damage caused by accident, abuse, misuse, liquid contact, fire, earthquake or other external cause; (e) to damage caused by operating the Apple Product outside Apple’s published guidelines; (f) to damage caused by service (including upgrades and expansions) performed by anyone who is not a representative of Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider (“AASP”); (g) to an Apple Product that has been modified to alter functionality or capability without the written permission of Apple; (h) to defects caused by normal wear and tear or otherwise due to the normal aging of the Apple Product,
or (i) if any serial number has been removed or defaced from the Apple Product.

Notice this line.

"damage caused by service (including upgrades
and expansions)"