iWork '06 Wishlist - Keynote, Pages, Numbers?

[Epicurus]

I use Keynote at work for our directors presentations - generally overseas.

Keynote 2 is good, but seems a bit too childish and limited in how far it goes.

Some of the major features I'd like include:
1. Mask to ANY shape (not just a standard square)
2. Styles, as in for text and also for slide settings and transition settings
3. Scale a group - seems so obvious!

i have others on my website if anyone is interested macwishlist

Oh, and we NEVER use Pages. Really seems like half an app.

Great list on your site, I hope you don't mind if I comment on a few here:

Scaling seems to be a real issue with Keynote, both with scaling multiple objects at one time and having fine control (%-wise) over the amount of scaling.

Some level of simple CoreImage integration would be nice, allowing for blur effects, color control of imported imagery, and a lot of other cool image effects. The color controls don't have to be as detailed as the iPhoto edit palette (though the transparency of the window would be nice).

One feature I miss from using Visio is the ability to do Boolean interactions. This means being able to cut a circle out of the middle of the square, add a triangle to the side of a square, etc. This is similar to the current mask option, but allows you to be far more creative, since you can use any image object you want as the mask. Still, the current mask is too limiting even for a mask option, so additional standard shapes should be added.

Adding all these features might also make it necessary for there to be two lines of toolbar icons. The floating palettes are nice, but there are a lot of basic controls I'd rather just have in the toolbar. Any effect with options (like transparency, shadow, etc.) needs to go in a palette, but things like the flip commands and the layer buttons belong in a toolbar. Also, it would be nice to be able to open multiple Inspector palettes, each open to a different set of controls. Oh, and all the palettes should be semi-transparent like the one in iPhoto.

 

[IJ Reilly]

If Microsoft can include Access with the Office Suite, Apple should include File Maker w/ iWork.


It would cost me more to get iWork (only Pages and Keynote 2) + FileMaker than it would to buy the entire Office Suite for Windows.

Only because Microsoft charges Mac users more for less. Filemaker plus iWork is still less expensive than Office Mac.

I do think a bundle would be a very good idea, though. Not sure how easily this could be done given Filemaker's independence from the Mother Ship. (Yes, I know they are a wholly-owned subsidiary, but they do seem to chart their own course.)

 

[GorillaPaws]

Templates are really pretty easy to create in Pages. Within a couple of hours of installing iWork (starting from knowing nothing about Pages) I created several standard report and memo templates for our business, with placeholder text, styles, etc. In fact what I'd like to be able to do is switch the canned templates with the one's I've created as the default list when starting a new document. I think this can probably be accomplished with some manual tweaking in the library files, but I'd rather not do it that way.

But what we're talking about is having standard academic formats (i.e. every US school is supposed to follow these in preparation for college where every one does use these (APA, MLA, Chicago). There's and entire manual for each one, a couple hundred pages thick. It sure would be nice to have it bundled instead of every academic bound student having to create it - or search and download it. It's the kind of thing these pre-rendered templates are screaming to have. Educational sales to schools alone would probably justify this.

Also, they need to include a bibliography generator (as I stated earlier). I picture this looking something like how you create contatcts in Address Book, where you could add multiple authors by clicking the + button for example. A nice, clean interface that would take the hedache out of bibliographies. When you're done, just hit the Bibliographize button on the bottom, and it'll bring up a window like when you hit print. You can select various options, and choose which style you're going to build, and which document you're going to insert it in-- Pages takes care of the rest.

 

[Epicurus]

I do think a bundle would be a very good idea, though. Not sure how easily this could be done given Filemaker's independence from the Mother Ship. (Yes, I know they are a wholly-owned subsidiary, but they do seem to chart their own course.)

This is why I think Apple will either make a FileMaker Express option a part of the iWork bundle or (and I think this second option is more likely) Apple could "borrow" some of the FileMaker code and build their own flavor of spreadsheet/database app and call it "Numbers". Why reinvent the wheel?

Apple owns FileMaker, FileMaker has really good database software; its a perfect match. They could even market it as a collaboration (like they did with the iMac a while back, "From the creators of iPod. The new iMac G5"):

"From the creators of FileMaker. Presenting Numbers"

 

[IJ Reilly]

But what we're talking about is having standard academic formats (i.e. every US school is supposed to follow these in preparation for college where every one does use these (APA, MLA, Chicago). There's and entire manual for each one, a couple hundred pages thick. It sure would be nice to have it bundled instead of every academic bound student having to create it - or search and download it. It's the kind of thing these pre-rendered templates are screaming to have. Educational sales to schools alone would probably justify this.

Also, they need to include a bibliography generator (as I stated earlier). I picture this looking something like how you create contatcts in Address Book, where you could add multiple authors by clicking the + button for example. A nice, clean interface that would take the hedache out of bibliographies. When you're done, just hit the Bibliographize button on the bottom, and it'll bring up a window like when you hit print. You can select various options, and choose which style you're going to build, and which document you're going to insert it in-- Pages takes care of the rest.

Sure, we can always use more templates -- the ones Apple provided seem more for show than for blow. But they really aren't difficult to create, so maybe a small cottage industry will spring up for this eventually, like it has for Dashboard widgets. Too much to hope for?

I like your idea for bibliographies. This is one of the banes of my existence too. I'd be satisfied with a free-standing application that did what you suggest. I've looked at several library applications but none really fills the bill.

 

[IJ Reilly]

This is why I think Apple will either make a FileMaker Express option a part of the iWork bundle or (and I think this second option is more likely) Apple could "borrow" some of the FileMaker code and build their own flavor of spreadsheet/database app and call it "Numbers". Why reinvent the wheel?

Apple owns FileMaker, FileMaker has really good database software; its a perfect match. They could even market it as a collaboration (like they did with the iMac a while back, "From the creators of iPod. The new iMac G5"):

"From the creators of FileMaker. Presenting Numbers"

I think they'd have to do this is a way which would not cannibalize FileMaker sales -- integrating it in some way into a spreadsheet might be the solution.

A straight bundle I think presents some problems. For one, FileMaker maintains completely separate technical support and sales. All of that would need to be reintegrated into Apple somehow, which could be difficult and disruptive.

 

[deral]

Play videoclips saved from DVD player

 

[Josh]

Only because Microsoft charges Mac users more for less. Filemaker plus iWork is still less expensive than Office Mac.

iWork plus File Maker has to be compared to Office for Windows, since the comparison needs to include databse software (office price is the same, anyway).

From Apple: iWork $79 + File Maker $299 = $378

Office for Windows: $399

There is a $21 price difference.

But we must also consider Office includes Excel, which many would agree is worth quite a bit more than $21.

 

[robbyx]

FileMaker and iWork are not a good fit

This is why I think Apple will either make a FileMaker Express option a part of the iWork bundle or (and I think this second option is more likely) Apple could "borrow" some of the FileMaker code and build their own flavor of spreadsheet/database app and call it "Numbers". Why reinvent the wheel?

I think the lack of a spreadsheet application hinders iWork's success (in the marketplace) far more than the lack of a database. As someone who works with FileMaker extensively, I don't think it would be a good fit with iWork. Furthermore, the codebase is VERY different . FileMaker relies heavily on legacy code. Haven't you wondered why, after several releases on OS X, FileMaker still looks so bad? Where is Aqua, after all??? Adding FileMaker to iWork would require the reinvention of the wheel, so to speak.

Apparently FileMaker rolled its own UI code way back in the day that supports both Mac and Windows and they still rely on that code today. No pretty Aqua. No Cocoa support. No sharing of tools and interface elements like Pages and Keynote. From what I understand, adding a "modern" UI to FileMaker is a HUGE task and probably won't happen until version 10 (ie: 2-3 years). Since FileMaker went relational, they've been focusing exclusively on re-writing and modernizing the database engine. They're not taking advantage of Cocoa simply because they need to keep FileMaker cross-platform. iWork, on the other hand, is 100% Cocoa, so integrating FileMaker and iWork would be a major challenge.

I think Apple would be far better off creating a great Cocoa front-end application for an open-source database (ie: MyQSQL, OpenBase, etc) if they really want to add database functionality to iWork. After all, FileMaker and Apple are two separate companies and FileMaker is heavily focused on providing the best cross-platform business database solution. It would be a nightmare to try to bridge the gap between what FileMaker is doing and what iWork needs.

As for iWork, I think Keynote is great and don't feel that Pages is nearly the disaster many others believe it to be. I don't push it very hard, but I'm quite pleased with it as a basic word processor and publisher. There's definitely room for improvement, though (speed!!!). That said, iWork's greatest failing - and the thing that KILLED it in the marketplace - is the lack of a spreadsheet. At the very least, a "productivity" suite needs word processing, presentation, and spreadsheet software. Come on Apple! What's wrong with you???!!!

Finally, I would strongly urge Apple to purchase RapidWeaver and make it part of iWork or iLife. It's an amazing application that integrates perfectly with Apple's existing offerings. An innovative HTML tool would strongly enhance Apple's existing application suites and RapidWeaver is about as good as it gets!

Just my two cents...

-Rob

 

[IJ Reilly]

iWork plus File Maker has to be compared to Office for Windows, since the comparison needs to include databse software (office price is the same, anyway).

From Apple: iWork $79 + File Maker $299 = $378

Office for Windows: $399

There is a $21 price difference.

But we must also consider Office includes Excel, which many would agree is worth quite a bit more than $21.

Well, since we can't run Office for Windows on our Macs...

In any event, I think this entire discussion is predicated on Apple including a spreadsheet application with the iWorks package to make it as least as complete an offering as Office Mac. Even if the price goes up to $99, and even if FileMaker had to be purchased separately, then the entire package is still less expensive than Office Mac and as complete as Office for Windows for the same price.

 

[Josh]

In any event, I think this entire discussion is predicated on Apple including a spreadsheet application with the iWorks package to make it as least as complete an offering as Office Mac. Even if the price goes up to $99, and even if FileMaker had to be purchased separately, then the entire package is still less expensive than Office Mac and as complete as Office for Windows for the same price.

Yeah, it would be less expensive by $1. ($99+$299= $398...$399-$398=$1)

The point I'm trying to make, is that because iWork is not as complete as Word, Excel, etc (and no version 1 of 'Numbers' will be as complete as Excel) is that it should be quite a bit cheaper than Office - certainly by more than just a dollar.

 

[swindmill]

. . . And count me as a vote against auto-correct, one of Word's more annoying "features." The last thing I want is a computer telling me what it thinks I meant to write.

I only like auto-correct's ability to fix the spelling of slightly mispelled words. I have never had it get that wrong, and it is an excellent feature when I am typing faster than I am actually able to, in order to keep up with class. However, some of auto-correct's other "corrections" can be extremely annoying (however, I don't tend to encounter those in my note-taking)

 

[robbyx]

In any event, I think this entire discussion is predicated on Apple including a spreadsheet application with the iWorks package to make it as least as complete an offering as Office Mac. Even if the price goes up to $99, and even if FileMaker had to be purchased separately, then the entire package is still less expensive than Office Mac and as complete as Office for Windows for the same price.

I don't think one can compare iWork, even with a spreadsheet, to Office Mac. Feature for feature, Office wins hands down.

That said, there are plenty of us who don't need or want all of those features and that's what makes iWork so compelling. Just give us a darn spreadsheet!!! I mean, if Apple could recycle the old NEXTSTEP Pages application, why not resurrect Improv, Quantrix, or Questor? There's plenty of Cocoa spreadsheet code floating around...

As for FileMaker, how about an iWork/FileMaker bundle? Buy iWork and get FileMaker for half price. That would work!

-Rob

 

[IJ Reilly]

Yeah, it would be less expensive by $1. ($99+$299= $398...$399-$398=$1)

The point I'm trying to make, is that because iWork is not as complete as Word, Excel, etc (and no version 1 of 'Numbers' will be as complete as Excel) is that it should be quite a bit cheaper than Office - certainly by more than just a dollar.

Sigh. Look, let's not belabor this discussion with needless repetition. First, I think we've established that maximizing the number of features is not the goal of any good software designer and not what most of us are seeking from Apple. Microsoft is great at cramming features into their products but very poor at implementing them.

Second, we're only theorizing about both the database and spreadsheet components of upcoming versions of iWorks. Even if Apple choses not to bundle in a database application, then buying a freestanding copy of FileMaker along with iWorks is still less expensive than Mac Office. If they do choose to bundle, then I think we can be pretty sure it will be far less expensive than buying ala cart. Get it?

Third, it makes no sense to compare pricing on Office for Windows and Mac. Microsoft rips off Mac owners but that's just a fact of life. This provides Apple with an opportunity to uncut them on price and quality, if not in the knobs per dollar department, which would be an unworthy goal anyway.

 

[Josh]

Even if Apple choses not to bundle in a database application, then buying a freestanding copy of FileMaker along with iWorks is still less expensive than Mac Office.

...........

How many times are you going to repeat that, and how many times to I have to show you the numbers, before you realize it's a difference of one dollar?

Considering the point relates to cost, arguing that it is less expensive - when it is so only by such a small margin - is incredibly moot.

 

[IJ Reilly]

...........

How many times are you going to repeat that, and how many times to I have to show you the numbers, before you realize it's a difference of one dollar?

Considering the point relates to cost, arguing that it is less expensive - when it is so only by such a small margin - is incredibly moot.

Double sigh...

 

[Bear]

...........

How many times are you going to repeat that, and how many times to I have to show you the numbers, before you realize it's a difference of one dollar?

Considering the point relates to cost, arguing that it is less expensive - when it is so only by such a small margin - is incredibly moot.

The Mac version of office doesn't come with Access. And the Windows version that does come iwth Access costs noticeably more than $399.

 

[Josh]

And the Windows version that does come iwth Access costs noticeably more than $399.

How so?

http://shop.microsoft.com/homeandpersonal/default.asp

Office is the first product on the page. Price: $399.

 

[IJ Reilly]

For Windows. The Mac edition is $100 more.

 

[dogsbody]

How so?

http://shop.microsoft.com/homeandpersonal/default.asp

Office is the first product on the page. Price: $399.

...and that version doesn't include Access...

Ok...on Amazon, they do it for $332.99, with Access it goes up to $414.99.

I imagine it costs even more direct from Micro$oft.

Similarly, on Amazon:-

iWork 05 = $68.99
Filemaker Pro 8* = $278.99

Total Cost = $347.98

*Except you get a database app that works on Windows and Mac.

So....It's actually $67.01 cheaper for the Mac bundle.

How do you like them Apples! (Sorry - just Josh-ing around)

 

[joed]

Great list on your site, I hope you don't mind if I comment on a few here:

Sure and thanks

...Also, it would be nice to be able to open multiple Inspector palettes, each open to a different set of controls.

You already can open new inspectors. Go to view and choose "new inspector"

I'd also like better control over QT movies - like being able to pause and start, and to choose if it starts during or after a transition. What about on screen controls for movies?

How about sending to iDVD to make an interactive DVD. Would be nice to automate this.

And to those you love Pages, well maybe I just given it a chance But too busy using InDesign.

 

[Epicurus]

You already can open new inspectors. Go to view and choose "new inspector"

Thanks. I'll be using this feature a lot while I wait for Keynote 3. Still, I don't like that there isn't a keyboard shortcut to get a second inspector to pop up (if there is and I don't know about it, which is likely, please let me know how).

--------

I think it is safe to say that the general consensus here is that Apple needs to add an application that can handle "Excel"-type tasks. Databases are nice, but first things first. Graphing needs to be off-loaded from Keynote and Pages into a separate app and it needs to be capable of handling far more data types. Basic spreadsheet features too.

What exact features would you consider the minimum for Numbers, v1.0?

 

[IJ Reilly]

What exact features would you consider the minimum for Numbers, v1.0?

Off the top of my head, the ability to open Excel workbooks is a must.

 

[Epicurus]

PhotoPro as part of iWork?

I've been browsing the other forums and found a couple of entries that lead me to think the rumored upcoming PhotoPro app (iPhoto on steroids) might end up as a part of iWork rather than as a separate product. iWork seemed to consolidate Apple's non-iLife consumer software selection (sans AppleWorks) so this makes a little bit of sense. Nobody is really expecting a title like PhotoPro to be as high-end as Logic Express or Final Cut Express.

If it does happen, and PhotoPro is indeed coming today (Oct. 19) then iWork might be getting an update sooner than expected. This would also signal a shift in direction for iWork, making it decidedly more media oriented than Office.

If Apple wanted to still introduce iWork '06 alongside iLife '06 early next year, they could hold on to the Numbers app or possibly add in an HTML tool (like RapidWeaver) for added flair. Of course, now I'm really getting ahead of myself. Would anybody even want iWork to get into photos (or HTML for that matter)?

 

[joed]

Would anybody even want iWork to get into photos (or HTML for that matter)?

I don't think iWork will get a photo app seeing as Aperture just come out. And that's what iPhoto is for.

I do think iWork will get a spreadsheet app as well as a vector drawing app as well. Maybe a database app in the future - but doubtful. Steve Jobs said this was to replace Appleworks, so pretty much anything you could do in Appleworks you'd need to be able to do in iWorks and or iLife.

At first, I thought Keynote should get much better support for spreadsheets and drawing shapes. But as you said, and with the suite of apps in iWork, they should all work together seamlessly. ie if I want to edit a shape in Keynote, I can open that shape in drawing, update, save, and close with the update happening automatically.

I had also wanted Apple to dring out a web app, but I kinda think that if iLife apps get better web page export support, then I wouldn't need a whole separate app to do it - the Smart Web Gallery thing in Aperture looks really exciting and I hope iPhoto gets some of those features - in someway.

We should find out in a couple of months