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iWork '09 Torrent Carrying OS X Trojan

EmperorDarius said:
So if you don't want to pay for something which you can get for free you have a low IQ...wow that's really intelligent from someone with a "high" IQ.:rolleyes:
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Get for free by stealing.
You left out that part.

And my IQ is not that high and I never said it was.
Wanna twist some more words :rolleyes:

BTW I edited out that last part (before seeing your post) as I realized that it was a completely negative and unnecessary statement and did not wish to turn this into a slagging match....and I can accept when I have done something wrong.
 
Tallest Skil said:
We already agreed that the useless, irrelevant comparison argument was invalid several pages ago.

Also, just to make it even more invalid, I've not done any of the things you have listed.

Also, also, I believe, "So because you (personally) can get away with doing these things that you have listed, you think it's okay to do even more illegal activities?" is the proper response.
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Well then you are under the age of 15 because no one with a drivers license drives the speed limit at all times

No one

So either you are a kid or a liar and I really could care less what you think either way
 
oldwatery said:
I am sickened by the latest posts claiming that pirating is OK and not in effect stealing.
No wonder our planet is in such a mess.
It's got squat to do with speeding or any other crap excuses you people are spewing.
And don't give me that stuff about hypocrisy.
Yeh...I break the speed limit...but what's that got to do with this subject?
I haven't heard one person critical of pirating say they are saints.
Just that pirating is wrong and in effect stealing.
Remember two wrongs do NOT make a right. And because someone breaks the actual or moral law in other ways does not make pirating right.
As for the person who boasts about stealing every piece of software costing over $10...your bragging and lack of any morals will come back and bite you.
I'd love to hear just one of these people sprout the garbage they are if they found themselves developing a new piece of software.
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Well why is it ok for you to break the law in other ways ? Shouldnt you be shaming yourself and worrying about the fact you are a lawbreaker first ?
 
I haven't read a single comment in this thread, so something along this line might have been posted already. However, doesn't MacRumors indirectly support piracy by explaining how to get rid of a trojan you can only get by illegally obtaining iWork to begin with?
 
stuff the picture - whatever you want to call it, it's wrong

Bengt77 said:
Here's an old picture illustrating why piracy isn't the same thing as stealing.
Click to expand...

I don't care about your picture.

As I've said, whatever you may call it, you are taking something of value that someone is selling, and using it without compensating the seller.

Call it theft, call it stealing, call it piracy, call it "copyright infringement" - it's still denying the people who created the content that you are using the reimbursement that they deserve, and it is wrong.
 
kahine said:
Well why is it ok for you to break the law in other ways ? Shouldnt you be shaming yourself and worrying about the fact you are a lawbreaker first ?
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Please don't put words in my mouth.
I never said it is OK to break the law....read my posts.
All I said is that using software without paying for it is wrong.
Just like speeding is.
At least I can own up to that action, unlike many posters here who think that piracy is not wrong.
I also said that 2 wrongs don't make a right...and that includes my wrongdoing.
This thread is all about pirating software not speeding or smoking pot or murder.
Read the post by AidenShaw...it sums it up perfectly.
Anyway I'm done flogging this horse..... you know in your heart what is right and what is wrong....so lets agree to disagree and all have a wonderful and joyous day :D
 
Bengt77 said:
Here's an old picture illustrating why piracy isn't the same thing as stealing.
Click to expand...

What is left out of that pictoral, is the intended transaction, being a sale.

Let's say there is a well known and established Photographer, John, who is contracted by a company to go and take product shots and shots of their facilities, touch up work, and post-processing of the photos. In exchange for this work John will recieve $2500 per the rate that he requests.

John goes and spends the next two weeks working, taking shot after shot of products and traveling taking shots of the facilities, as was agreed upon. He does all the touchup work, and builds a presentation to demonstrate his work to the company. The day after he completes the job, he goes to the offices of the company to show the completed work to the company, and the executives love his work, and tell him to go down to accounting to pick up his check. But he leaves his laptop in the meeting room, and the exectutives copy the completed work, and then call down to accounting to cancel the payment.

The rational behind the executives is that John is already an established photographer, and that has already paid for his house and his Mercedes, and that he doesn't really need any more money as he already has enough. When John asks what hell is going on here, the executives reply "Well we didn't have the money in the first place to hire you, so it's not like you lost out on a sale anyways."

I think that we would all agree that John got shafted out of $2500...

So regardless if the orignal creator still has the master, they've still invested time in creating, which they won't be seeing the return from. The whole point in creating for a living is to do just that, make a living.

Call it what you like, but John still doesn't have the $2500 that he was expecting.
 
AidenShaw said:
Call it theft, call it stealing, call it piracy, call it "copyright infringement" - it's still denying the people who created the content that you are using the reimbursement that they deserve, and it is wrong.
Click to expand...

This is true. One thing your forgetting is that people who are pirating are not suddenly going to start caring and buying digital data legally anytime soon.
 
FX120 said:
What is left out of that pictoral, is the intended transaction, being a sale.

Let's say there is a well known and established Photographer, John, who is contracted by a company to go and take product shots and shots of their facilities, touch up work, and post-processing of the photos. In exchange for this work John will recieve $2500 per the rate that he requests.

John goes and spends the next two weeks working, taking shot after shot of products and traveling taking shots of the facilities, as was agreed upon. He does all the touchup work, and builds a presentation to demonstrate his work to the company. The day after he completes the job, he goes to the offices of the company to show the completed work to the company, and the executives love his work, and tell him to go down to accounting to pick up his check. But he leaves his laptop in the meeting room, and the exectutives copy the completed work, and then call down to accounting to cancel the payment.

The rational behind the executives is that John is already an established photographer, and that has already paid for his house and his Mercedes, and that he doesn't really need any more money as he already has enough. When John asks what hell is going on here, the executives reply "Well we didn't have the money in the first place to hire you, so it's not like you lost out on a sale anyways."

I think that we would all agree that John got shafted out of $2500...

So regardless if the orignal creator still has the master, they've still invested time in creating, which they won't be seeing the return from. The whole point in creating for a living is to do just that, make a living.

Call it what you like, but John still doesn't have the $2500 that he was expecting.
Click to expand...

I feel this is an excellent example and will use it in the future - thank you. :cool: Also, thanks to AidenShaw, great points (as always) ;)
 
Piracy is theft. Theft is stealing. Thieves are scum.

Do the math. If you can't afford it, don't buy it. Vote with your dollars, and don't be a thief.
 
This thread is hilarious and more or less explains to me what is wrong with the apple community.

My favorite part was when tallest skill said he had never sung the happy birthday song in public.
 
island said:
This is true. One thing your forgetting is that people who are pirating are not suddenly going to start caring and buying digital data legally anytime soon.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Maybe poisoning the illegal downloads so that those people's computers are destroyed is the right thing to do.

I love this thread.
  • All those people who have claimed or insinuated that "Apple users are better people" are wondering WTF
  • All those people who claimed that Apple computers were immune to malware are wondering WTF
  • All those criminals who have been downloading software from the torrent are wondering "WTF, has my Apple been taken over by sinister Internet criminals?"

I love it.
 
Bengt77 said:
I haven't read a single comment in this thread, so something along this line might have been posted already. However, doesn't MacRumors indirectly support piracy by explaining how to get rid of a trojan you can only get by illegally obtaining iWork to begin with?
Click to expand...

No, MacRumors is helping remove it, regardless of how it got there, be it your 11 year old son on the family computer with all of today's important work documents and credit card numbers, for example.

There's also a lot confusion about piracy and plagiarism here. Claiming the software as your own work, is stealing (plagiarism). Exactly the reason people need patents on things, because scum steal ideas.

1. A company doesn't lose money over someone copying software/music/video that they wouldn't otherwise buy. (Whether the "pirate" deserves to consume this content without paying is another matter.) Companies do lose money going after pirates though.

2. A company does lose money if people who would otherwise buy software, pirate it instead.

3. A company GAINS money when someone pirates their content, which they would not otherwise buy, then likes it enough to buy it. I have bought many CDs in this fashion - if I couldn't listen to some of the songs first, I would never have bought it (just like listening to the radio, then buying the cd). Similarly with software that lacks a free trial (so not iWork, in this case).

So the question is, what is the net effect of piracy? If we had more #3s, then piracy would be good, but it varies company to company, and media type. Take Adobe Photoshop, for example. Almost every pirate of this software will be in #1. Students, people who just want to play with it, etc. Anyone who uses it for work will buy it, if for no other reason than to avoid getting caught, as making profit off pirated software is pretty serious.

Example of where piracy is bad:
• Movie is due out in cinemas in 2 weeks.
• Torrent of DVD comes out. Everyone has already seen it.
• Movie theatres have already paid money for licences to show the reals, but lose money as they don't get the same audience.

Overall though, piracy is not as big of a deal as people make out to be, and it would be less bad if production companies were less greedy and had no DRM. Wasting money with anti-piracy agencies is fairly futile and counter-productive. Also, just curious in family homes (assuming no family licences are available), who buys say, 4 copies of every CD and every piece of software so that everyone in the house can consume it?

Edit: In case my point is lost, I am saying that it is not simply "black and white" as some posters put it. Piracy in general is bad/illegal, but a lot of it is harmless and many people are quite petty about it.
 
iEdd said:
Also, just curious in family homes (assuming no family licences are available), who buys say, 4 copies of every CD and every piece of software so that everyone in the house can consume it?
Click to expand...

The honest people....


iEdd said:
Edit: In case my point is lost, I am saying that it is not simply "black and white" as some posters put it. Piracy in general is bad/illegal, but a lot of it is harmless and many people are quite petty about it.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but it is "black and white". If you steal software and the creators of the software aren't paid for your use of it - IMO you are a criminal.
 
AidenShaw said:
Sorry, but it is "black and white". If you steal software and the creators of the software aren't paid for your use of it - IMO you are a criminal.
Click to expand...

I agree, anyone who steals someone else's idea and passes it off as their own is a criminal. Fortunately Apple copyrighted iWork long before it went of sale, as well as indisputable evidence that they were the creators of the software. Lucky for us it can't be stolen as no-one would believe the thief that it was their creation. :)
 
piracy it wrong but it is not going to stop

Yes I will say one thing piracy is wrong but it is not going to stop. my thought is piracy is ok because copyright right hold are use the law to stop freedom of speech aka http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/11/de-beers-internet-intermediaries. On software it funny how people go this torrent I feel a bit sorry them. Piracy is and well be around with computer. oh on a side note if I use my mac to record a tv show then take the ad and put on my iphone is that piracy I think not
 
AidenShaw said:
Call it theft, call it stealing, call it piracy, call it "copyright infringement" - it's still denying the people who created the content that you are using the reimbursement that they deserve, and it is wrong.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Regardless of what you call it, it's wrong.

dejo said:
It is. Just to let you know.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reference.

~Shard~ said:
I feel this is an excellent example and will use it in the future - thank you. :cool: Also, thanks to AidenShaw, great points (as always) ;)
Click to expand...
Definitely a good example.

AidenShaw said:
The honest people....
Click to expand...
:)

For those who don't mind stealing software, imagine that you make your livelihood creating software. You happen to have a popular software item that is used by many, yet your revenue is limited at best because everyone is just "sharing" your software. How would you feel?
 
FX120 said:
What is left out of that pictoral, is the intended transaction, being a sale.

Let's say there is a well known and established Photographer, John, who is contracted by a company to go and take product shots and shots of their facilities, touch up work, and post-processing of the photos. In exchange for this work John will recieve $2500 per the rate that he requests.

John goes and spends the next two weeks working, taking shot after shot of products and traveling taking shots of the facilities, as was agreed upon. He does all the touchup work, and builds a presentation to demonstrate his work to the company. The day after he completes the job, he goes to the offices of the company to show the completed work to the company, and the executives love his work, and tell him to go down to accounting to pick up his check. But he leaves his laptop in the meeting room, and the exectutives copy the completed work, and then call down to accounting to cancel the payment.

The rational behind the executives is that John is already an established photographer, and that has already paid for his house and his Mercedes, and that he doesn't really need any more money as he already has enough. When John asks what hell is going on here, the executives reply "Well we didn't have the money in the first place to hire you, so it's not like you lost out on a sale anyways."

I think that we would all agree that John got shafted out of $2500...

So regardless if the orignal creator still has the master, they've still invested time in creating, which they won't be seeing the return from. The whole point in creating for a living is to do just that, make a living.

Call it what you like, but John still doesn't have the $2500 that he was expecting.
Click to expand...

But if the person "pirating" the software, music or video would never buy the product in the first place then the producer of said software/music/video isn't shafted out of a single dime. What difference does it make to them then? If the person pirates they don't get any money, if the person doesn't pirate they don't get any money.

I bought iWork 09 because to me it's worth it. To other people it may not be, but will torrent it because it's free. These users aren't affecting Apple's bottom line in any way, they would never pay for iWork.

The idea that every pirated piece of data is a lost sale is a false dichotomy, one which the music and film industry have been playing off for years to excuse poor performance. Your analogy is bogus because John the photographer spent time and effort making those shots for a specific company that had hired him under the pre-tense of paying him. This is an apples and oranges comparison, pure and simple. iWork is a generic product that Apple made for mass consumption and can be sold to anyone owning a Mac. If one person would never buy it, but torrents it, Apple lose nothing and arguing that they've wasted their time and effort (like John) is bogus too as that time and effort is what paying consumers are buying.

A better analogy would be if John was a nature photographer, and had some shots of a Tiger. National Geographic pay him for these shots, but an individual torrents them and uses them as his wallpaper. Now, would the individual have ever paid what John would ask for his photos? No. Is John's time and effort photographing the Tiger wasted then? No - he sold the shots to the National Geographic.
 
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