John Gruber's thoughts on Apple Watch

[richdruitt]

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That still doesn't mean it's not plated. I'll reserve my judgement until they actually produce it and it comes with an actual certificate to prove that it's 18k gold rather than just plated.

From the marketing speak on their website, it sounds as if they have mixed the gold with something else to make it stronger. Which, normally would not qualify it for 18k anymore. So it's either they've mixed it with something stronger or they've just plated a harder alloy in 18k.

After all, plating is just depositing a thin layer of gold, or silver, onto a much harder metal.

 

[Julien]

You can't make gold stronger than what it is, without reducing the quantity of it. It's impossible....
I'm sticking with my prediction that it's plated.

Understanding gold used in Jewelry. 24K is pure gold. 18K Gold is 75% Gold and 25% other medals. For compassion 14K is 58.3% Gold and 10K is 41.7% Gold. The other added medals (25% in 18K) are what give it strength. Normally it's copper with some nickel. Apple may be using other metals or a different ratio.

That still doesn't mean it's not plated. I'll reserve my judgement until they actually produce it and it comes with an actual certificate to prove that it's 18k gold rather than just plated.

From the marketing speak on their website, it sounds as if they have mixed the gold with something else to make it stronger. Which, normally would not qualify it for 18k anymore. So it's either they've mixed it with something stronger or they've just plated a harder alloy in 18k.

After all, plating is just depositing a thin layer of gold, or silver, onto a much harder metal.

It is NOT plated. Apple would be required by law to disclose this. It clearly says 18K Gold.

 

[richdruitt]

18K Gold is 75% Gold and 25% other medals. For compassion 14K is 58.3% Gold and 10K is 14.7% Gold. The other added medals (25% in 18K) are what give it strength. Normally it's copper with some nickel. Apple is likely upping the nickel to copper ratio.



It is NOT plated. Apple would be required by law to disclose this. It clearly says 18K Gold.

There's no legal requirement to my knowledge that says that anything that is plated must be stamped as so. It might be good industry practice, but that doesn't make it law.

As for your other assertion, if Apple are upping the nickel to copper ratio, then it won't be 18k, will it?

 

[Julien]

There's no legal requirement to my knowledge that says that anything that is plated must be stamped as so. It might be good industry practice, but that doesn't make it law.

As for your other assertion, if Apple are upping the nickel to copper ratio, then it won't be 18k, will it?

Gold laws

18K is 75% gold. The other 25% can be of any metals to meet the law. Apple is playing with the 25% metal to metal ratio.

 

[richdruitt]

Gold laws

18K is 75% gold. The other 25% can be of any metals to meet the law. Apple is playing with the 25% metal to metal ratio.

It's not law. Those are just acceptable standards. There are no international regulations that stipulate that it must be stamped as "gold plated". There are laws that say it must be stamped with the actual karat being used.

So, like I said, it could well be 18k gold plated. But neither you nor I know for certain. I dare say, even Gruber wouldn't have a single clue. Nobody outside of Apple would have any idea if it's solid or plated.

 

[Julien]

It's not law. Those are just acceptable standards...

They are not "acceptable standards". They are FTC (Federal Trade Commission) guidelines (16 C.F.R. Part 23) to inform a compony so they don't break the law.





"...All gold items will be plumb gold as defined by the Federal Trade Commission's Guidelines for the Jewelry. Precious Metals and Pewter Industries, 16 C.F.R. Part 23, reference section 23.4, the National Stamping Act and the National Gold & Silver Stamping Act 15 U.S.C. 291, et. seq. and the FTC. All merchandise must comply with FTC regulations and laws governing the production of fine jewelry, precious metals and gem stones..."

FACT: 18K Gold is 18K Gold and NOT Gold Electroplate.

 

[ditzy]

It's not law. Those are just acceptable standards. There are no international regulations that stipulate that it must be stamped as "gold plated". There are laws that say it must be stamped with the actual karat being used.

So, like I said, it could well be 18k gold plated. But neither you nor I know for certain. I dare say, even Gruber wouldn't have a single clue. Nobody outside of Apple would have any idea if it's solid or plated.

As it is advertised at the moment, if they sold it like that and the case wasn't 100% 18 carat gold, Apple would be fined tremendously, for breaking the law. It would also be possible that some of their exec team could go to jail.
Unless the description changes at the point of release the case is not plated.

 

[Rogifan]

That still doesn't mean it's not plated. I'll reserve my judgement until they actually produce it and it comes with an actual certificate to prove that it's 18k gold rather than just plated.

From the marketing speak on their website, it sounds as if they have mixed the gold with something else to make it stronger. Which, normally would not qualify it for 18k anymore. So it's either they've mixed it with something stronger or they've just plated a harder alloy in 18k.

After all, plating is just depositing a thin layer of gold, or silver, onto a much harder metal.

Apple executives told John Gruber that it was NOT gold plated. I have a hard time believing Apple would lie about this. It's not like they wouldn't get caught.

 

[Piggie]

A thought

Only the parts stamped as 18ct gold need to be 18ct gold

There is no reason why it could not be an inner steel/other metal main structure of the watch, with a thinner 18ct solid gold shell around it.

Think of a 18ct egg shell around another metal inner shell.

that's not plated

 

[richdruitt]

A thought

Only the parts stamped as 18ct gold need to be 18ct gold

There is no reason why it could not be an inner steel/other metal main structure of the watch, with a thinner 18ct solid gold shell around it.

Think of a 18ct egg shell around another metal inner shell.

that's not plated

That is exactly what I'm thinking as well. I'm not buying the story of a super expensive piece of electronic wrist jewellery. It doesn't sound like the style of Apple to be that incredibly shallow.

It's also just not feasible considering the competition on the electronic watch market. Ive can gloat all he likes about taking on the Swiss watch market, but the reality is, he's nowhere near those big boys. He's still playing around in the Samsung/Sony/Motorola pond with electronic toys.

 

[Rogifan]

A thought

Only the parts stamped as 18ct gold need to be 18ct gold

There is no reason why it could not be an inner steel/other metal main structure of the watch, with a thinner 18ct solid gold shell around it.

Think of a 18ct egg shell around another metal inner shell.

that's not plated

Or what if it really is 18-karat gold like Apple says? Gruber said the 18-karat gold watch was heavier on the wrist than the stainless steel one. Jason Snell, formerly of MacWorld, got to see the box that the Edition Watch comes in. It's a special leather box with a magnetic charging cradle inside and a slot for the lightening connector on the base of the box. He also said the watch is heavy.

Apple's website says the watch case is crafted from 18-karat gold. It doesn't say gold plated or a steel structure with a gold shell. It would be highly irresponsible of Apple to market this as an 18 karat gold watch if that was not really the case.

 

[KPOM]

That is exactly what I'm thinking as well. I'm not buying the story of a super expensive piece of electronic wrist jewellery. It doesn't sound like the style of Apple to be that incredibly shallow.

It's also just not feasible considering the competition on the electronic watch market. Ive can gloat all he likes about taking on the Swiss watch market, but the reality is, he's nowhere near those big boys. He's still playing around in the Samsung/Sony/Motorola pond with electronic toys.

Apple is the only consumer electronic company that can even think about taking on the high end Swiss manufacturers. People might pay $1,000 for a stainless steel Apple Watch sold at a retail store run by the woman who ran Burberry. They wouldn't buy a $1000 Samsung or Motorola watch sold in a Best Buy. And if anyone is going to attempt to sell a $5,000 gold watch, it would either be the watch makers themselves or Apple. Maybe Apple wants to make a preemptive strike against them.

 

[Rogifan]

That is exactly what I'm thinking as well. I'm not buying the story of a super expensive piece of electronic wrist jewellery. It doesn't sound like the style of Apple to be that incredibly shallow.

It's also just not feasible considering the competition on the electronic watch market. Ive can gloat all he likes about taking on the Swiss watch market, but the reality is, he's nowhere near those big boys. He's still playing around in the Samsung/Sony/Motorola pond with electronic toys.

I find it interesting that those were actually at the event and able to try on the watch aren't questioning whether it's really 18 karat gold or not. I think I'll trust their judgment over people who haven't seen it in person nor tried it on. You might think it's shallow but Apple obviously doesn't. Let's not forget some of their hires in the past year which have come from luxury fashion firms. They wouldn't be hiring these people to sell cheap Android Wear clones.

 

[SlCKB0Y]

A lot of people dismiss John for various reasons, but his insights are some of the deepest and most well-informed out there.

How about because he is a rabid fanboy who corrupted any journalistic integrity he may of once had by trading it for access?

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

A thought

Only the parts stamped as 18ct gold need to be 18ct gold

There is no reason why it could not be an inner steel/other metal main structure of the watch, with a thinner 18ct solid gold shell around it.

Think of a 18ct egg shell around another metal inner shell.

that's not plated

It's quite possible there isn't that much solid 18k gold but only because they need to maximize the innards in order to fit the electronics and keep the size down.

 

[SlCKB0Y]

Apple is the only consumer electronic company that can even think about taking on the high end Swiss manufacturers.

They can't take on high end swiss manufacturers for the following reasons:

1. I don't care what Apple watch is made of or how much it costs, it is not a high end watch.

2. The kind of people who would drop 5k+ on a watch are not going to choose this over the swiss brands.

3. A collector might buy it as a curiosity but this would be in addition to, rather than instead of, the generally collected brands.

 

[KPOM]

They can't take on high end swiss manufacturers for the following reasons:

1. I don't care what Apple watch is made of or how much it costs, it is not a high end watch.

2. The kind of people who would drop 5k+ on a watch are not going to choose this over the swiss brands.

3. A collector might buy it as a curiosity but this would be in addition to, rather than instead of, the generally collected brands.

Apple can't command Rolex prices, but $5K won't get you a Rolex. That said, one of those companies could decide to test the smart watch market. They wouldn't conmand the same prices as their mechanical watches, but could get the same markup that Vertu got for a few years with turning Nokia phones into jewelry.

 

[Julien]

A thought

Only the parts stamped as 18ct gold need to be 18ct gold

There is no reason why it could not be an inner steel/other metal main structure of the watch, with a thinner 18ct solid gold shell around it.

Think of a 18ct egg shell around another metal inner shell.

that's not plated

Apple "....Each has a watch case crafted from 18-karat gold...."

FACT: Anything less than the above statment would be deceptive advertising and illegal in the US resulting in legal action and FTC fines. In order to meet the law Apple would have to fully disclose by using wording like 'partial case' or 'outer case covering'.

FACT: 18K gold case = an 18K gold case or Apple is violating US law.

 

[Piggie]

Apple "....Each has a watch case crafted from 18-karat gold...."

FACT: Anything less than the above statment would be deceptive advertising and illegal in the US resulting in legal action and FTC fines. In order to meet the law Apple would have to fully disclose by using wording like 'partial case' or 'outer case covering'.

FACT: 18K gold case = an 18K gold case or Apple is violating US law.

I can accept that, however, be honest, we have not seen an Apple Watch torn apart yet. The case, we are thinking is a thick chunk of metal milled out with some bits in it.
In reality is going to be the thinnest Apple can possibly make it.

Obviously you'd want the case as thin as tin foil if you could make tin foil strong enough.

It's not going to have large areas of chunky metal taking up component space, in effect you'd want a case, just like an egg shell around the parts.

Just strong enough to hold it all together and not damage to easily as it's too thin.

 

[SHNXX]

This was a very thought provoking piece. Thanks for posting this.

 

[Piggie]

We have this image here:

http://rack.3.mshcdn.com/media/Zgky...iCTEyMDB4OTYwMD4/3532b3b7/c2f/chipi07asdf.jpg

Look close.

In reality, it may well be a black inner frame plastic/aluminium? holding it all together.
The actual "case" looks like it could very well be, a thin eggshell around the inner body

So, yes, the term "Case" may not be what you really think the word case is.

It's a thin shell of a finish, wrapped around the internal skeleton of the device, the skeleton is what the parts are fixed into.

The "Case" is a thin case around it all, for a "finish"
Think of your holiday SuitCASE

So, yes, the "case" may itself be solid gold, but don't think the case means the whole internal structural framework/skeleton also.

Think "suitCASE"

Remember....

THIS: http://dailyiphoneblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/iphone-4-zero-5-thin-case-09.jpg

Is a "CASE"

A super thin shell "Encasing" the device

I'm sure many many are totally misunderstanding the definition of the word "case" here

 

[Piggie]

Found an example:

18k Gold Watch Case, square.

I'd say a lot, and I mean a HELL OF A LOT more solid gold than would be in the Apple watch.

http://xhjinxiaoxiao.en.alibaba.com/product/259459047-213476382/18k_gold_watch_case_watch_parts.html

Not sure about my understanding of the advert, but pricing looks to be:

$200 to $1500 dollars each depending on quantity.

If you look close up there is a lot of chunky gold in that shape, esp around the strap area.

The Apple watch "case" could have 1/4 or less the amount of actual metal in that.

 

[kmj2318]

Definitely not plated. There are industry terms they would have used to indicate that. And you can make change the composition of 18K gold because 18K gold means that it's 75% pure, meaning the other 25% is not. Also, some people who got to try them said that the gold was noticeably heavier than the SS, just like the SS was noticeably heavier than the aluminum.

 

[Piggie]

Having another thought on it.

And I still think my concept of what a "Case" actually is, which is a lot less than what some may think a case is, is still a valid concept.

Apple has 2 routes.

Make the gold one stupidly expensive, so that it really is a device for people with more money than sense and they wish to throw it away simply for fashion and publicity, so Apple can show well known people in photos with the gold one.

This will make good brand publicity for them.

Or they can make a ton of money on the gold one and sell bucket loads.
As I said in previous posts, they may be very little actual "Case" in the Apple watch, just a thin shell around an aluminium? skeleton which holds it all together.

Say $100 worth of gold maximum

They could price this at say $250 premium, enough to make $150 clear profit extra on just the case material.
But low enough that thousands, tens of thousands of people feel like they'd like to feel special and pay the extra for a gold one as it's within affordable reach.

That would make them a lot more money to get the masses to pay more for gold than a small number of people willing to throw $1000+ at it.

Any no way, in bulk raw metal would it need to be that expensive anyway, as I say, it's not going to be a heavy thick chunk of metal in the 1st place.

 

[SHNXX]

We have this image here:

http://rack.3.mshcdn.com/media/Zgky...iCTEyMDB4OTYwMD4/3532b3b7/c2f/chipi07asdf.jpg

Look close.

In reality, it may well be a black inner frame plastic/aluminium? holding it all together.
The actual "case" looks like it could very well be, a thin eggshell around the inner body

So, yes, the term "Case" may not be what you really think the word case is.

It's a thin shell of a finish, wrapped around the internal skeleton of the device, the skeleton is what the parts are fixed into.

The "Case" is a thin case around it all, for a "finish"
Think of your holiday SuitCASE

So, yes, the "case" may itself be solid gold, but don't think the case means the whole internal structural framework/skeleton also.

Think "suitCASE"

Remember....

THIS: http://dailyiphoneblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/iphone-4-zero-5-thin-case-09.jpg

Is a "CASE"

A super thin shell "Encasing" the device

I'm sure many many are totally misunderstanding the definition of the word "case" here

Good call.