Jump ship or not?

[ocnitsa]

Hi all...
Work is ready to buy me a laptop within the next 2 years. My 2012 MBP is in terrible shape...I think a thermal sensor died and now it thinks it's overheating a lot of the time and throttles back the CPU and turns fans on high. Sometimes letting the computer go to sleep fixes it. Anyhoo, the Dell XPS 15 refresh has got my attention...At my last job, I had them buy one for me and I ran a hackintosh in a virtual machine through Windows 10. The performance was pretty good, but most of the time I just did stuff in Windows. I'm wondering what other people's thoughts are about the possibilities regarding the refresh for Mac Book Pros later this year. I'd like to use the lappie hooked up to an Akitio Node in order to squeeze some graphics goodness out of it. Aside from gaming (which is a serious concern to me), I don't use my computer for anything taxing...but I tend to error on the side of power because I use the same laptop for a long time (my current laptop is 6 years old...if it wasn't for the throttling issue it would still be good (in spite of the handful of dead pixels)). What are your thoughts?

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

One of the main reasons I'm back on a Mac was that I didn't like the way Windows was headed. It used to be that you could buy a new machine and do some work to get it to a clean Windows experience (remove the OEM junk). Now, Windows 10 is the problem. MS continues to load it with more stuff you don't want--including advertising for their own products--and virtually all of it returns after every major update. The OS literally works against you. It only looks to be getting worse, as it doesn't sound like MS really believes in Windows as a money maker anymore. I'm not selling my soul to Google, and Linux isn't something I want to mess with anymore. That leaves me MacOS. It's a shame, as there appear to be some really compelling products, for cheaper than Mac prices, usually, but having them ship with Windows 10 makes them dead in the water for me.

That said, I suspect the next Mac refresh will see the move to the new 6-core Intel CPUs.

You might also try Macs Fan Control on your current machine to see if you can manually correct your thermal issues. That, or try blowing out the fan areas.

 

[Altis]

I'll probably end up replacing my 2010 17" MBP this year. I didn't think I'd have to, nor do I really want to, but OSX/macOS runs so incredibly poorly on it now and my battery life lost around 20% following some OS updates.

Windows still runs exceptionally well on it, but the battery life is only around 2-3 hours in Windows, compared with what was 6-7 hours in Mac (now more like 4-5).

I won't be considering the Mac lineup when I go to replace it. I'd prefer a 15" which starts at CAD $3200... even the 13" non-TB is CAD $2000. I don't like the direction Apple is taking these days, especially with macOS. I find it getting in the way more and more, so I only really use it for light tasks like Office/PDFs/Remote Desktop while on the go. I'd miss the 17" screen, though.

I don't really like the direction MS is taking Windows either, with it's updates/telemetry. However, it runs so much faster than macOS and is (at the moment) more flexible for me. The hardware options are much greater, as well. I use Windows and Linux on my desktop so no issue with the OS, really.

The XPS 15 looks like it will be good when it's updated. I really like the 8th-gen CPUs, even the 15W quad-cores and the new G-series of chips. The 6-core chips should be great and have a long usable life, and who knows when Apple will get around to putting them in the Macs... they've been awful at keeping the Mac lineup current. Even the Surface Laptop and Surface Book are CAD $300-500+ less than the 13" MBP, despite being considered rather overpriced in their categories.

It seems to be a good year to pick up a laptop, though -- great CPU and GPU bumps.

 

[Surrat]

I'll probably end up replacing my 2010 17" MBP this year. I didn't think I'd have to, nor do I really want to, but OSX/macOS runs so incredibly poorly on it now and my battery life lost around 20% following some OS updates.

Windows still runs exceptionally well on it, but the battery life is only around 2-3 hours in Windows, compared with what was 6-7 hours in Mac (now more like 4-5).

I won't be considering the Mac lineup when I go to replace it. I'd prefer a 15" which starts at CAD $3200... even the 13" non-TB is CAD $2000. I don't like the direction Apple is taking these days, especially with macOS. I find it getting in the way more and more, so I only really use it for light tasks like Office/PDFs/Remote Desktop while on the go. I'd miss the 17" screen, though.

I don't really like the direction MS is taking Windows either, with it's updates/telemetry. However, it runs so much faster than macOS and is (at the moment) more flexible for me. The hardware options are much greater, as well. I use Windows and Linux on my desktop so no issue with the OS, really.

The XPS 15 looks like it will be good when it's updated. I really like the 8th-gen CPUs, even the 15W quad-cores and the new G-series of chips. The 6-core chips should be great and have a long usable life, and who knows when Apple will get around to putting them in the Macs... they've been awful at keeping the Mac lineup current. Even the Surface Laptop and Surface Book are CAD $300-500+ less than the 13" MBP, despite being considered rather overpriced in their categories.

It seems to be a good year to pick up a laptop, though -- great CPU and GPU bumps.

If you like the 17" 2010 MBP, then address its problems.
If the drive is slow, put in an SSD, the new Samsung 860Evo/Pro are great.
Throw 8gig of memory in it.
If the battery is dying, go to an Apple service center (not Apple store) and have it replaced with a new one.

 

[Queen6]

If gaming is the major consideration then you should look to Windows and a gaming notebook. There are light & thin powerhouses coming out with 1070 & 1080 GPU's that the MBP will never come close too. As for Windows easily tamed with a little knowledge.

Apple is fixated on a single philosophy "thinner" the cost in usability and performance is more than evident, and why I know longer user the Mac professionally...

Q-6

 

[DjanSeriyAnaplian]

If you like the 17" 2010 MBP, then address its problems.
If the drive is slow, put in an SSD, the new Samsung 860Evo/Pro are great.
Throw 8gig of memory in it.
If the battery is dying, go to an Apple service center (not Apple store) and have it replaced with a new one.

This response is ridiculous and suggestive of the sinister groupthink that pervades Apple adherents.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

This response is ridiculous and suggestive of the sinister groupthink that pervades Apple adherents.

That’s a pretty big leap. Maybe the advice above is a little bit optimistic, but it’s also a realistic option. OP said that if it weren’t for the throttling slowdowns and battery decline, they might still be okay with the existing machine since they don’t use it much. A new machine is far more expensive, so it’s at least worth considering.

 

[bruinsrme]

I think the first sentence threw me off.
Work is going to buy you a new computer within the next 2 years.

I am assuming it’s a work computer. They allow free reign when it comes to loading things?

Every company in the last 10+ years has locked down the computers they provide.

Not sure I would let the possibility of a work provided laptop sway my decision purchases for my own/personal productivity and enjoyment.

 

[MRrainer]

I think the first sentence threw me off.
Work is going to buy you a new computer within the next 2 years.

I am assuming it’s a work computer. They allow free reign when it comes to loading things?

Every company in the last 10+ years has locked down the computers they provide.

Not sure I would let the possibility of a work provided laptop sway my decision purchases for my own/personal productivity and enjoyment.

If it's a small business, it might be a bit more relaxed.

If $work would pay for a laptop for me to use, I'd go with the i7 MacBook with 16GB RAM.

 

[leman]

Anyhoo, the Dell XPS 15 refresh has got my attention...

If I may ask, why didn't Dell XPS 15 last year got your attention? Or the years before that? The difference between the MBP 15" and the XPS 15" will remain exactly the same... the 2018 MBP will come with the 6-core Coffee Lake CPUs and possibly some Vega mobile GPU variant. Performance-wise it will be very close to the XPS, maybe a tad slower in the GPU department (as it has been for years). We'd have to wait for benchmarks to see whether the XPS solved its biggest problem — the power-hungry display, but its certainly a very nice machine and a good bang for buck.

All in all, I don't think that the question is which one to get in 2018. Since pros and cons are more or less the same as every year... and if you use Windows most of the time as you say, there is not much point in getting a Mac.

 

[macjunk(ie)]

If you are going to Windows, I would advise against the Dell. Their XPS lines,IMO, suffer from poor thermal management. Those machines are also after the same prized thinness category as the MBPs. I would only recommend the Thinkpads...T series specifically. They are unapologetically 'fat' compared to the MBPs and XPSs, are modular and come with the latest tech.

If you do not use OSX as much, I see no reason why you have to suffer with the current line of Touch bars (unless you have masochistic tendencies ).

 

[_Kiki_]

If you are going to Windows, I would advise against the Dell. Their XPS lines,IMO, suffer from poor thermal management. Those machines are also after the same prized thinness category as the MBPs. I would only recommend the Thinkpads...T series specifically. They are unapologetically 'fat' compared to the MBPs and XPSs, are modular and come with the latest tech.

If you do not use OSX as much, I see no reason why you have to suffer with the current line of Touch bars (unless you have masochistic tendencies ).

imho P series is nicer

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

imho P series is nicer

I have a P series for work. It's the higher end version with the quad core and nVidia GPU (can't think of the model at the moment). It's not a bad machine at all. The only annoyance is when I take it off the dock and get greeted with the blurry fonts due to Windows' forever-terrible font scaling on the "HighDPI" display. I have to log out and back in to get the scaling fixed. Of course, when I plug back in to the dock, my standard DPI monitor gets the blurry fonts, requiring the logout procedure all over again. Thankfully, I rarely undock without a complete shutdown. I know MS is trying to fix this issue, but ironically, this is happening with Office365--which coincidentally also doesn't support non-active-window scrolling (even though programs like Google Chrome do).

 

[TheSkywalker77]

I'm always gonna be using a MacBook for my day to day tasks, but for gaming I'd strongly recommend a windows computer as their graphics cards are often better than a Mac's and it's for the same price if not cheaper than a MBP. I just dislike how much info Windows collects on you and how hard it is to disable all of it.

 

[TheBruno]

For me, it's all about the OS experience. Windows 10 is not for me. As Darmok pointed out, MS loads the software up with junk. Much of the interface remains trapped in the 90s. I discovered yesterday while dual booting that I MUST restart an application when I choose to use headphones in Windows 10. Yes, really. I'm not sure if this is true for each and every application, but I've seen it in at least one game so far. Upon researching it further, someone explained that Windows 10 requires you to restart all applications if you decide to plug in some headphones. Otherwise, the audio just continues to come out of the speakers. It's a minor, but ridiculous flaw if it's true across the entire OS.

On the flip side: if you're going to game, Windows 10 is your best shot. But then again, you can always just dual boot. Mac OS is a far cleaner environment, esp. for productivity, imo.

 

[macjunk(ie)]

imho P series is nicer

Yeah...I like how roomy it is on the inside as well. 4 RAM slots and 3 slots for SSDs! I don't like the keypad though and the resulting off centre trackpad. Apparently, Lenovo is building a 15" without a keypad and that is expected this year. So lets see how that comes through.

Having said that, I still like Macs because of OSX. I have Manjaro with KDE running on my T470 but every once in a while I am tempted to hackintosh it. I love many of the programs developed exclusively for OSX. Although these programs are 'want' and not a 'need'. All the 'needs' are sufficiently met in Linux.

So if Apple continues on this Touch Bar path for the next few years, it will come down to a desperate choice between the 'wants' and the 'needs' (I know what's going to win this argument). However, the optimist in me tells me that Apple will offer a mitigation to the current trashiness in the product line. Something's gotta give

 

[ocnitsa]

I think the first sentence threw me off.
Work is going to buy you a new computer within the next 2 years.

I am assuming it’s a work computer. They allow free reign when it comes to loading things?

Every company in the last 10+ years has locked down the computers they provide.

Not sure I would let the possibility of a work provided laptop sway my decision purchases for my own/personal productivity and enjoyment.

I teach at a university, so I have complete control over my laptop. Further, if for some reason I had to justify it, I’ve taught classes that incorporate videogame study. They are provinding the funds, but I get to make the choices and complete the order. So, I just need to figure out what I’m gonna do.

 

[Falhófnir]

Aside from gaming (which is a serious concern to me)

There’s your answer - you will be infinitely better off with a windows machine if you want to game in any serious capacity.

 

[ocnitsa]

If I may ask, why didn't Dell XPS 15 last year got your attention? Or the years before that? The difference between the MBP 15" and the XPS 15" will remain exactly the same... the 2018 MBP will come with the 6-core Coffee Lake CPUs and possibly some Vega mobile GPU variant. Performance-wise it will be very close to the XPS, maybe a tad slower in the GPU department (as it has been for years). We'd have to wait for benchmarks to see whether the XPS solved its biggest problem — the power-hungry display, but its certainly a very nice machine and a good bang for buck.

All in all, I don't think that the question is which one to get in 2018. Since pros and cons are more or less the same as every year... and if you use Windows most of the time as you say, there is not much point in getting a Mac.

This year it got my attention because I've been on the fence for a while...but it's getting time to make a decision and the new Coffee Lake's are out. Dell's Thunderbolt 3 is no longer gimped, too. Further, they are offering the 1050ti as an upgrade option along with 32 gb of RAM. (I don't really need the RAM, but I believe in future proofing...plus, if I do decide to run Mac OS in a virtual machine, I'd like to give it 16 gb to work with. However, the amount of RAM is not a deciding factor.) I hear you about the display. I'd think real hard before getting the 4K screen.

Now, I should be clear about using Windows...I said when I had an XPS before, although I had Mac OS operable in a virtual machine, I ended up just using the main OS, Windows. (I had a real sweet setup with dual monitors where Windows was full screen on one side and Mac OS was full screen on the other and the cursor could seamlessly move between them.) At work now, I'm using my old MBP...the majority of the time in Mac OS. At home, I have a 2014 retina iMac. I love the integration via Apple's iCloud (I have an iPad and iPhone, too)...but I'm not sure that should be a deciding factor for me when I have no enduring allegiance to either OS...especially in this case given Apple's premium price and increasingly fused together designs. Maybe what it will come down to is whether or not the keyboard has gone through a third iteration...I don't like the reports of dust breaking the keyboards with a 50/50 chance of a can of air working or otherwise serious repairs via Apple. I have liked Apple's build quality in the past, over Dell, which is pretty much a no brainer. But, I'll have to wait at least until the line is refreshed to see what Apple decides to do.
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There’s your answer - you will be infinitely better off with a windows machine if you want to game in any serious capacity.

My hope is that serious gaming will occur through the external graphics box via Thunderbolt 3. I can handle gimped performance when going mobile and disconnecting from an external monitor.

 

[Falhófnir]

My hope is that serious gaming will occur through the external graphics box via Thunderbolt 3. I can handle gimped performance when going mobile and disconnecting from an external monitor.

I know you’re not buying the machine, but how much is your company willing to splash on upgrading a MBP with a large SSD and the upgraded GPU? Windows still has benefits over MacOS for gaming - just sheer variety of titles available if not also how well they are optimised to run. If you’re bootcamping and want even a few new games loaded on there at any one time, you’re going to want the pricy 1TB SSD as a bare minimum - and there isn’t a stock configuration of that available, so will your company be happy with a build to order machine? You can buy a reasonable windows gaming laptop for the price differential between a base 15” dGPU MacBook Pro and a 1TB/ upgraded GPU model, and you might seriously still be better off with that machine, chunky though it will be. A 1050ti will outperform the Radeon Pro 560 handsomely.

 

[ocnitsa]

I know you’re not buying the machine, but how much is your company willing to splash on upgrading a MBP with a large SSD and the upgraded GPU? Windows still has benefits over MacOS for gaming - just sheer variety of titles available if not also how well they are optimised to run. If you’re bootcamping and want even a few new games loaded on there at any one time, you’re going to want the pricy 1TB SSD as a bare minimum - and there isn’t a stock configuration of that available, so will your company be happy with a build to order machine? You can buy a reasonable windows gaming laptop for the price differential between a base 15” dGPU MacBook Pro and a 1TB/ upgraded GPU model, and you might seriously still be better off with that machine, chunky though it will be. A 1050ti will outperform the Radeon Pro 560 handsomely.

You got that right about HD size...I'm tired of carefully managing what I have installed via Steam on the Bootcamp partition. I have about 3,000 to play around with in terms of this order. That will likely score me an upgrade (but not the best) to the CPU, 16 GB of RAM, and a 512 GB SSD, I imagine with the Mac. But, yeah...I will do build to order. Trying to balance between power and portability...which is why I'm looking at the XPS 15 and the 15 inch MBP. I have to spend the money within two years or it will disappear. If I was going the Apple route, I'd imagine the best thing to do would wait for the next iteration to begin appearing in the Apple refurb store in order to get a slight discount, but I don't know how much longer I can stomach this 2012 MBP.

 

[Smeaton1724]

For me 2018 is the same as 2008, the MacBook line is too rich versus the power on offer elsewhere. The XPS 15 refresh is around £1800 for a machine better than the MacBook Pro 15 and at £500-700 less. I do 3D graphics work so going with the MacBook I’d have to run Windows anyway.

It’s a shame as I dislike windows versus Mac OS but in terms of pure hardware I think the MacBook Pro line needs a root and branch overhaul. I love the MacBook 12 but that’s aimed at a different segment of the computer buying market.

 

[TheBruno]

To me, this says it all. I can tolerate it to game once in a while, I guess. But I hate the maintenance and cleanup of Windows 10. Perhaps it's because I'm a designer, and I want things a bit more tidy and simple.

 

[Smeaton1724]

To me, this says it all. I can tolerate it to game once in a while, I guess. But I hate the maintenance and cleanup of Windows 10. Perhaps it's because I'm a designer, and I want things a bit more tidy and simple.

View attachment 758409

There’s more spam games installed with windows 10 than the total amount of games available on the Mac App Store! /s

Oh windows is terrible, however to use Revit, Solibri, Masterseries plus a whole host of construction related design software then you need Windows. That abomination above has to be tolerated whether it’s via Virtual Machine or native install. A windows user gets access to great hardware with a terrible OS, a Mac user gets a great OS with questionably priced hardware for the specs.

 

[TheBruno]

There’s more spam games installed with windows 10 than the total amount of games available on the Mac App Store! /s

Oh windows is terrible, however to use Revit, Solibri, Masterseries plus a whole host of construction related design software then you need Windows. That abomination above has to be tolerated whether it’s via Virtual Machine or native install. A windows user gets access to great hardware with a terrible OS, a Mac user gets a great OS with questionably priced hardware for the specs.

I really think it depends on the user. To me, gaming is the only exception. The software titles you mentioned are unimportant to me. Obviously, if you need something that Mac OS doesn't support, you need to use Windows. Gaming is secondary to my productivity, so I'm comfortable dual-booting once in a while. That's where my relationship with Windows 10 ends. The question becomes much simpler to answer when the tools you're using are (or aren't) supported. For me, the choices are available on both, so I'm comfortable paying more for hardware, working with ONE company who has a straight-forward warranty and support system, and enhances my productivity in a create and comfortable environment. It's all very personal and petty, but it's a piece of the pie.