Jump ship or not?

[Darmok N Jalad]

Maybe I'm petty, but if I spend close to 1425 bucks on a computer that's otherwise nicely put together in a well built chassi by a legitimate brand, I don't want this program preinstalled for my "gaming level performance" wifi card. I just don't. Ever.

And here's that awful MaxxAudio Pro application that's inexplicably needed for any kind of audio to work with the computer. That's right - you can't uninstall it without going to lengths (disabling services, rolling back to an older Windows default High Definition Audio driver etc.) no end user should have to when buying anything other than bargain bin computers. You see why I'm baffled as to why Dell is at least a semi-respected company, right?

When I bought my wife her Lenovo, the first thing I did was open it up, remove the spinning drive and add an SSD. From there, I did a clean install of Windows 10. I never even had to enter a “CDKey,” as it was embedded in the BIOS. For all my complaints about Windows 10, it does great at clean installs—it downloaded all the necessary drivers, and even the special keyboard shortcuts worked. By doing that, I didn’t have to worry about those extra programs being installed. My biggest problem in all of it was figuring out how to disable secureboot in the BIOS to allow Windows to install.

 

[macjunk(ie)]

When I bought my wife her Lenovo, the first thing I did was open it up, remove the spinning drive and add an SSD. From there, I did a clean install of Windows 10. I never even had to enter a “CDKey,” as it was embedded in the BIOS. For all my complaints about Windows 10, it does great at clean installs—it downloaded all the necessary drivers, and even the special keyboard shortcuts worked. By doing that, I didn’t have to worry about those extra programs being installed. My biggest problem in all of it was figuring out how to disable secureboot in the BIOS to allow Windows to install.

Windows 10 still installs those silly games from the store, even on a fresh install. Annoys me to no end. After every update, those damn games still appear.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

Windows 10 still installs those silly games from the store, even on a fresh install. Annoys me to no end. After every update, those damn games still appear.

Yeah, I mentioned that above. I don't care for it either. What is odd is that some of them appear to be actual full games, while others are just a shortcut that will only download the game once you click on it. MS is still committed to that store, too. My corporate laptop has Windows 10 on it, and I can still access the Store. I don't know what would happen if I tried to install an app from there, as I'm running a pretty locked down machine.

 

[thisismyusername]

I am assuming it’s a work computer. They allow free reign when it comes to loading things?

Every company in the last 10+ years has locked down the computers they provide.

Lots of companies aren't that strict. For example, I work for a medium sized company and it's common for engineers here to format their hard drives and install the OS of their choosing as soon as they get a new laptop. The Dell folks tend to install Linux and the Mac folks sometimes reinstall OSX to remove the crap IT installed. The price you pay is you're on your own with supporting it as IT won't want to help you with software problems, but we're ok with that since they're kind of a bunch of idiots anyway.

It was the same at my last company. I know lots of people here who use their work MBPs as their personal computers, install games on them, etc.

 

[jeyf]

SECURITY; an it-department worth salt would find engineering, business, legal departments not compatible.
ENGINEERING; when debugging something unknown, prone to crash, development peeps consider VirtualBox or VMWare. Debugging a network based project needs to be isolated from local office traffic.

any company today has to accommodate consultants and usually these people come with their own tools. Also not good to have that expensive new hire work in a desk top environment they are not used to or an environment not optimal for the tools they require.

Skills cross departments. Having an it-department chat with the engineers is essential.

 

[SkyLinx]

I "jumped ship" two years ago and regretted it! I went the Linux PC route first and then the Hackintosh route because I missed macOS terribly, now I am back to Macs and am happy.

 

[jeyf]

i am using Linux & Windows for some of my needs, not all. Could Apple, 40+ years old, be going though a mid life crisis.

homePod; totally best sounding device on the planet?
macBook; buy an early 2016 and be happy
iPhone; turn it over and they all look the same
iPod; another mouth to feed, ill just use my iPhone thanks
Watch; if you just look at it, dont touch it, can it run a whole day on one charge

 

[udflyer]

I've tried to leave a few times and always come back, mainly due to OSX over Windows.

I root for competition so Apple get pushed more.

I want an Apple killer from a Windows provider just to push Apple for me

 

[bopajuice]

To me, this says it all. I can tolerate it to game once in a while, I guess. But I hate the maintenance and cleanup of Windows 10. Perhaps it's because I'm a designer, and I want things a bit more tidy and simple.

View attachment 758409

I don't get it. I see a lot of game stuff. Is this what gets installed after an update? If so I understand. If it's just default stuff what is so hard about moving or deleting a few tiles? I have my desktop nice and tidy, tiles arranged neatly and regularly update. I have never had any of that stuff appear after an update. After customizing my menus and tiles it actually works pretty good for me. Please explain.

 

[TheBruno]

I don't get it. I see a lot of game stuff. Is this what gets installed after an update? If so I understand. If it's just default stuff what is so hard about moving or deleting a few tiles? I have my desktop nice and tidy, tiles arranged neatly and regularly update. I have never had any of that stuff appear after an update. After customizing my menus and tiles it actually works pretty good for me. Please explain.

First of all, those are the default applications. Part of the maintenance of dealing with a new Windows 10 installation is removing all of those unwanted apps, arranging or deleting tiles to scale back the OS to a cleaner state. When you contrast that experience with Mac OS, it feels cluttered and laborious to roll back unwanted bloatware and clean up the UI.

Secondly, after installing an update, all of those tiles reverted back to their default state; at least, that's been my experience and some others in this thread. I never bothered customizing any of it ever again. I've been using iterations of Windows since 3.11, and I don't think Microsoft has ever polished their UI experience, and it still shows today.

 

[Queen6]

I don't get it. I see a lot of game stuff. Is this what gets installed after an update? If so I understand. If it's just default stuff what is so hard about moving or deleting a few tiles? I have my desktop nice and tidy, tiles arranged neatly and regularly update. I have never had any of that stuff appear after an update. After customizing my menus and tiles it actually works pretty good for me. Please explain.

Same here if I uninstall any default App's they remain that way. Just updated to Windows 10 1803 nothing was reinstalled, some setting changed, equally the vast majority remained the same.

Q-6

 

[ocnitsa]

If you do a Google search for MacBook Pro and click news the majority of stories are about how bad the keyboard is on the 2016- models. Apparently, people are petitioning for a recall.

 

[ocnitsa]

New XPS 15 is out...for just under 3k you can get one with an i9, 32gb of RAM, 1tb ssd, and a 1050ti with 4k screen.

I'm imagining that for a similar price, it will get a MBP with an i7, 16gb of RAM, 512gb ssd, and AMD graphics.

Obviously, the RAM and cpu are overkill for the dell....but if I got it, I would run OSX in a virtual machine and allot half the RAM and half the cores to it. Further, this is meant to be a desktop replacement that can be used as a laptop in a pinch. Still further, I intend to run a decent desktop graphics card in an external enclosure in my office. I'd like whatever computer I get to be useful for at least 5 years.

I have 3k for my purchase.

I can hold off until Fall, though. The only thing Apple could really do to keep me, I think, is redesign that keyboard. I don't care about travel or any of that stuff...but the potential for a speck of dust to make it nonfunctional is a dealbreaker.

 

[macjunk(ie)]

New XPS 15 is out...for just under 3k you can get one with an i9, 32gb of RAM, 1tb ssd, and a 1050ti with 4k screen.

I'm imagining that for a similar price, it will get a MBP with an i7, 16gb of RAM, 512gb ssd, and AMD graphics.

Obviously, the RAM and cpu are overkill for the dell....but if I got it, I would run OSX in a virtual machine and allot half the RAM and half the cores to it. Further, this is meant to be a desktop replacement that can be used as a laptop in a pinch. Still further, I intend to run a decent desktop graphics card in an external enclosure in my office. I'd like whatever computer I get to be useful for at least 5 years.

I have 3k for my purchase.

I can hold off until Fall, though. The only thing Apple could really do to keep me, I think, is redesign that keyboard. I don't care about travel or any of that stuff...but the potential for a speck of dust to make it nonfunctional is a dealbreaker.

That is a good deal. Expect BF deals to be even better.
I wonder what the long term field reports are for that 'maglev' keyboard on the Dell. Don't buy without reading that first

 

[ocnitsa]

That is a good deal. Expect BF deals to be even better.
I wonder what the long term field reports are for that 'maglev' keyboard on the Dell. Don't buy without reading that first

Looks to me like the maglev keyboard is on the XPS 15 2 in 1...can't find anything about it on the new XPS 15 (vanilla).

 

[Stingray454]

I'm in the same boat too..

- I really don't like Windows, but agree W10 is a lot better than it used to be (ie, usable), it has all the software and great hardware support. It would get the job done, but I'd probably be constantly annoyed.
- I've tried working in linux the last month. Honestly, I like it - ALL the software I need is available and works well. The OS is very customizable and nice. The issues though is that it does need more "tinkering" than OS X to get set up, and missing some key software that others use. As I need to work in project teams where everyone else is on OS X, people might send me files (say sketch files for example) that simply has no decent alternative to use under linux / windows.
- My current laptop is failing with all kinds of issues, and the employer said they'll get me a new one. MBP or windows machine, they don't care. I told them that I'd wait until the coming release of new MBP to decide at least.
- I don't love OS X either. The OS itself works just fine and doesn't get in the way of working like windows or linux might, but you're super locked in to apples way of doing things. Hardware wise I hate the touchbar, the butterfly keys, the limited ports, the lack of touchscreen, the crazy bad thermals, the not great hardware and so on.

Not really sure what to do. I can go windows and get great hardware but with the annoyance of everything that is windows. I can go linux and get great hardware and software but with the endless tinkering that steals focus from working, and you needing to jump through hoops to get things done. Or OS X, where the software is great but limited, and the hardware is pretty appalling.

One idea is something like Linux with an OS X vm, but not sure how well that works. If I change my mind and want back to OS X I'd be stuck with non-apple hardware for years to come probably. Tough choice.

 

[belvdr]

Not really sure what to do. I can go windows and get great hardware but with the annoyance of everything that is windows. I can go linux and get great hardware and software but with the endless tinkering that steals focus from working, and you needing to jump through hoops to get things done.

If you research the hardware sufficiently, you'll find you won't have these tinkering issues. Some folks opt for systems from suppliers such as System76 to avoid that.

 

[Stingray454]

If you research the hardware sufficiently, you'll find you won't have these tinkering issues. Some folks opt for systems from suppliers such as System76 to avoid that.

Yeah, that's the part I'm trying to figure out now. I've tried linux on my macbook, but there are issues - the webcam driver sucks, there are issues with sleep/wake and such things. I managed to fix most of it, but I do think that using a laptop that has known great linux support (xps, lenovos, system76 and so on) would probably be quite hassle free when it comes to the hardware. So it might not be an issue at all.

I have however ran into other things that needs tinkering too, and that's what I'm most worried about. Usually small things that once you figure it out it just works. For example, I couldn't add the workplace printer to my system. Turns out it's looking for "printername.local" when adding it, so you need a bonjour service installed to discover it / get the IP. It was easy to install and worked fine after, but the error message was something like "Error adding printer", and digging in log files to figure out WHY took an hour or so. Same with network shares for example, took some hours of config file editing and googling to figure out why I couldn't copy stuff from my NAS. And bad HiDPI support forces me to run a batch script after switching to my work monitor to set resolution / scaling up correctly. Stuff like that, that just works with one button click under OS X.

Once you've got it figured out everything is great, but it's just a lot to figure out. The more you DO figure out the better it becomes though . But it does need more hands-on work than OS X for sure.

 

[macjunk(ie)]

Yeah, that's the part I'm trying to figure out now. I've tried linux on my macbook, but there are issues - the webcam driver sucks, there are issues with sleep/wake and such things. I managed to fix most of it, but I do think that using a laptop that has known great linux support (xps, lenovos, system76 and so on) would probably be quite hassle free when it comes to the hardware. So it might not be an issue at all.

I have however ran into other things that needs tinkering too, and that's what I'm most worried about. Usually small things that once you figure it out it just works. For example, I couldn't add the workplace printer to my system. Turns out it's looking for "printername.local" when adding it, so you need a bonjour service installed to discover it / get the IP. It was easy to install and worked fine after, but the error message was something like "Error adding printer", and digging in log files to figure out WHY took an hour or so. Same with network shares for example, took some hours of config file editing and googling to figure out why I couldn't copy stuff from my NAS. And bad HiDPI support forces me to run a batch script after switching to my work monitor to set resolution / scaling up correctly. Stuff like that, that just works with one button click under OS X.

Once you've got it figured out everything is great, but it's just a lot to figure out. The more you DO figure out the better it becomes though . But it does need more hands-on work than OS X for sure.

Wonder if the Linux distribution plays a role here? A rolling release contains the latest kernel updates and might address the issues you have had.

 

[Stingray454]

Wonder if the Linux distribution plays a role here? A rolling release contains the latest kernel updates and might address the issues you have had.

I'm running a fully updated Arch now, so that's probably not it . It's more that you need to figure out what services or hardware workarounds you need, and then install / run / configure it yourself, on OS X all of that us set up out of the box.

 

[sracer]

Wonder if the Linux distribution plays a role here? A rolling release contains the latest kernel updates and might address the issues you have had.

The Linux distro used could indeed be a contributing factor, but I think it has more to do with the Apple hardware. Although many components could be considered "off the shelf" there are some other components that are proprietary.

I've bought countless Black Friday/Cyber Monday doorbuster Windows devices that were absolutely horrendous and unusable with the Windows 10 preloaded on them. I wiped them out and installed Linux on them. They perform so well they are daily drivers for folks who had spent 2-3x as much on a non-bargain system. Rock Solid and stable.

As for me, I took a holiday season bargain 15.6" Lenovo IdeaPad 110, replaced the harddrive with an SSD (initially cloned the preloaded Win10 image to it) and installed Windows 8.1 Embedded Industry Pro with some patches to look and work like Win 7. It's now a terrific system. I may buy Windows 10 systems, but I'll never run Windows 10 again.

 

[belvdr]

The Linux distro used could indeed be a contributing factor, but I think it has more to do with the Apple hardware. Although many components could be considered "off the shelf" there are some other components that are proprietary.

It could also be the firmware applied, even to the off the shelf components. Firmware can really mess with otherwise ordinary items.

 

[macjunk(ie)]

I'm running a fully updated Arch now, so that's probably not it . It's more that you need to figure out what services or hardware workarounds you need, and then install / run / configure it yourself, on OS X all of that us set up out of the box.

OSX provides the best out of the box experience and there is no contesting that. The only reason I am in the Apple matrix. Nevertheless, I will not buy the new Apple laptops. If it comes to that, I will leave. I have been somehow convincing myself over the years that Apple is worth the premium in laptops and hence the phones. I can’t convince myself anymore. And I have also begun to hate Apple for all their spiteful “improvements”.

However, Windows is not my cup of tea. Manjaro Linux it will be

 

[Stingray454]

OSX provides the best out of the box experience and there is no contesting that. The only reason I am in the Apple matrix. Nevertheless, I will not buy the new Apple laptops. If it comes to that, I will leave. I have been somehow convincing myself over the years that Apple is worth the premium in laptops and hence the phones. I can’t convince myself anymore. And I have also begun to hate Apple for all their spiteful “improvements”.

However, Windows is not my cup of tea. Manjaro Linux it will be

I hear you loud and clear. I'm really on the fence right now myself, and the more weird decisions or lack of products/updates I see from apple the more repelled I get. Still feels like a big step, but if the coming MBP release will be a let-down, I'm most likely out too.

 

[ocnitsa]

I hear you loud and clear. I'm really on the fence right now myself, and the more weird decisions or lack of products/updates I see from apple the more repelled I get. Still feels like a big step, but if the coming MBP release will be a let-down, I'm most likely out too.

I can't speak for OSX VM in Linux, but when I ran it last year on an XPS 15 in Windows 10, it was better than tolerable. I had 2 cores and 8GB of RAM dedicated to the VM. I did have to turn off animations in the Apple UI, to get it to run like normal. The only issue I had was that I was unable to get Messages to work in the VM. I didn't try very hard, though. Although I prefer OSX to Windows 10, I kind of stopped using the VM because it was one more hoop to jump through that didn't make that much of a difference in terms of my kind of usage. 50 percent of the time I'm in Windows, anyway, to play games in Bootcamp. The only thing holding me back at this point is the anticipation of loud fans and middling battery life for the XPS. If I got it again, it'd be 32 GB of RAM and the 4K screen, both of which suck power. The new model does have a larger battery, though...and most of the time I'd be plugging this thing in and have it on a laptop cooler....