Jump ship or not?

[jeyf]

back 2017 i was desperate to replace my old MBP. I bought the very first re designed 2017 MBP off the boat. Very sorry i did this. the unit has gotten bad street reviews.

can the OP do with an early 2016 MBP?
my 2017 MBP
-it has the messed up keyboard, possibly the replacement kb is just as bad
-at times you can see the GPU flake out
-the usb-C connectors have become loosae
-the track pad is odd
-compared to my iPhone7 the finger print reader is weak, combined with the kb makes passwords exciting.
-people experience odd battery run times
-considering the list price, it is really not that fast

the next MBP re design is NOI likely to fix all problems but just nice if you could type on it. It is a premium priced device in a mature market and would at least expect less latent errors. In a time consumer electronics are super reliable we have to buy apple care.

my bad but sorry i got evolved in this

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

To me, this says it all. I can tolerate it to game once in a while, I guess. But I hate the maintenance and cleanup of Windows 10. Perhaps it's because I'm a designer, and I want things a bit more tidy and simple.

View attachment 758409

Yep, and after every major update, all that stuff you just uninstalled will likely come back. The major releases install a clean copy of Windows and then migrate the previous Windows version programs and user accounts over. It's also why some of your preferences get torched. The only benefit you get with this is an update CAN actually fix problems, since whatever was wrong may not carry over. Beyond that, it just puts the burden of cleaning up the OS on you each time. I think it will get worse, as MS really wants you to use Edge.

As for gaming, I'd probably not even try to do it on a laptop. I'd rather get the base MacBook/MBP and then build a gaming PC, which is far easier to upgrade and has a much bigger thermal envelope at its disposal. I'm actually a little lazier than that, as I just have a PS4 Pro. I know every game I buy for it will work, and I don't have to worry about burning up my computer with extended gaming sessions. My iMac should last longer (since it doesn't have to be the fastest), and my PS4 Pro can be easily replaced or upgraded when PS5 comes out. And I don't have to deal with Windows 10. I know everyone has their own approach, so take it for what it's worth!

 

[KGB7]

Unless Apple laptops start using new Intel-G chip combo this year, I’ll stick my old trusty 7 year old Dell laptop running Windows 8.1.

I’ve been a windows user since Windows 3.1 and I hate Windows 10. It’s a FUBAR to navigate around and requires too many clicks to get most basic tasks accomplished.

2018 Dell XPS laptops are great and are well priced. But they come with Windows 10.

I never owned an Apple computer and I’ve wanted to get a MBPr for the past year. But the keyboard issue in 2017 models has changed my mind, so I’m looking forward to 2018 MBPr.
So unless I see pasotive hardware changes in 2018 MBPr model, I’ll stick with my old Dell for another year.

 

[Altis]

If you like the 17" 2010 MBP, then address its problems.
If the drive is slow, put in an SSD, the new Samsung 860Evo/Pro are great.
Throw 8gig of memory in it.
If the battery is dying, go to an Apple service center (not Apple store) and have it replaced with a new one.

Why assume I have none of that?

I have a decent SSD, 8 GB of RAM (sadly the most it will take), and the battery itself is perfectly fine -- only 280 cycles. It's getting what it got new in terms of battery in Windows because it always runs the dGPU.

OSX updates recently took a massive hit on it, both in terms of performance and battery life.

 

[Jantelagen]

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[leman]

I did jump ship just last month, and it's not been a good experience [...] I'll not be buying anything from Dell again in the near future.

This is very similar to the experience we had with Dell and Lenovo. Granted, we only bought a few units from them, but the experience was rather disappointing. Starting with very cumbersome purchase process (for some reason these guys couldn't just write us an invoice, adding ridiculous amount of bureaucracy that adds up to hundreds of dollars in man-hours alltogether!). Both Lenovo machines (X1 carbon) we bought in the last two years failed and took a while to be repaired, the Dell computer we got for our employee who was adamant against using a Mac frustrated him so much that he ended up buying a MacBook Pro with his personal money and using that as his work machine. The Surface Books we have are doing alright, although they have constant issues with external displays and printer drivers...

All in all, I do not believe the Macs are any more reliable than another premium machine — the evidence in any direction is only anecdotal — but any time we had an issue with one of our Macs they were repaired within 2-3 days and the repair was always free. They are essentially maintenance-free, secure (especially working in public sector where we are being targeted by ransomware constantly), and overall cause us much less support work. Of course, this all depends on how your organisation is set up and what service contracts you have with the dealers. If you work machines are standardised and you can manage them via management profiles, and you organisation is large enough so that dedicated IT unit makes sense financially, cheaper Windows machines are indeed a more economical solution.

 

[Jantelagen]

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[Maxx Power]

This is very similar to the experience we had with Dell and Lenovo. Granted, we only bought a few units from them, but the experience was rather disappointing. Starting with very cumbersome purchase process (for some reason these guys couldn't just write us an invoice, adding ridiculous amount of bureaucracy that adds up to hundreds of dollars in man-hours alltogether!). Both Lenovo machines (X1 carbon) we bought in the last two years failed and took a while to be repaired, the Dell computer we got for our employee who was adamant against using a Mac frustrated him so much that he ended up buying a MacBook Pro with his personal money and using that as his work machine. The Surface Books we have are doing alright, although they have constant issues with external displays and printer drivers...

All in all, I do not believe the Macs are any more reliable than another premium machine — the evidence in any direction is only anecdotal — but any time we had an issue with one of our Macs they were repaired within 2-3 days and the repair was always free. They are essentially maintenance-free, secure (especially working in public sector where we are being targeted by ransomware constantly), and overall cause us much less support work. Of course, this all depends on how your organisation is set up and what service contracts you have with the dealers. If you work machines are standardised and you can manage them via management profiles, and you organisation is large enough so that dedicated IT unit makes sense financially, cheaper Windows machines are indeed a more economical solution.

Leman, check out this new user survey on Notebookcheck, dealing exactly with the ownership and support experience of laptops. You can see that Apple seems to do better, at least compared to Lenovo and ASUS.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Noteb...Who-has-the-best-laptop-service.299092.0.html

Anecdotally, I have never had a good experience support-wise with Lenovo, ASUS (absolutely deplorable) and Dell.

 

[ocnitsa]

First, let me say that I half expected this post to devolve into rants on both sides when I started it...I'm pleasantly surprised to see such thoughtful observations from everyone. Thanks!

I forgot about the fans...it's true that the fans on the XPS 15 were pretty loud when running any kind of intensive anything. I believe it goaded me into wearing a headset for audio to muffle the noise. I don't know if that's a deal breaker for me, but it's definitely something to factor into consideration.

Although I like Mac OS, Windows 10 doesn't bother me like it does some people here...I set the view to desktop and it's pretty much like any other iteration of Windows. Once I've initially set that up, I've never had to change any settings after updates...In the start menu, I delete tiles that visibly bother me and ignore what's left over. I use CCleaner for registry and freeing up memory...I've used it for nearly a decade without saving registry settings before deleting and it's never screwed up the system.

Mac OS's main draw for me is iCloud (which could be replicated via other services, although I'm not excited to work on that) and apps like Pages and Keynote, which I just find slicker and more functional than Microsoft Office (which I work in all the time, too).

I started this thread leaning towards Dell...but I'm starting to come back around to MBP...just worried about the keyboard and want to get a decent amount of bang for my buck, since I don't think I'll have access to money like this in the future.

 

[KGB7]

Out of curiosity. Why do people buy Dell laptops or other brand computers other than Apple on the website?
Why not buy them at a retail store?

 

[jeyf]

...I started this thread leaning towards Dell...but I'm starting to come back around to MBP...just worried about the keyboard and want to get a decent amount of bang for my buck, since I don't think I'll have access to money like this in the future.

Dell's noisy fan or not if the MBP keyboard dosnt work its a totally junk mac book pro.
you got to think where you will be in a year with your purchase. seems mac books you will be standing at the genius bar wishing you bought apple support. With the Dell you will still have a noisy fan.

i really dont think apple will fix the keyboard for 2018, they think users are holding it wrong.
MBP replacement parts are failing just the same as rate.

 

[Maxx Power]

Out of curiosity. Why do people buy Dell laptops or other brand computers other than Apple on the website?
Why not buy them at a retail store?

I usually find better deals and discounts. Sometimes refurbs.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

First, let me say that I half expected this post to devolve into rants on both sides when I started it...I'm pleasantly surprised to see such thoughtful observations from everyone. Thanks!

I forgot about the fans...it's true that the fans on the XPS 15 were pretty loud when running any kind of intensive anything. I believe it goaded me into wearing a headset for audio to muffle the noise. I don't know if that's a deal breaker for me, but it's definitely something to factor into consideration.

Although I like Mac OS, Windows 10 doesn't bother me like it does some people here...I set the view to desktop and it's pretty much like any other iteration of Windows. Once I've initially set that up, I've never had to change any settings after updates...In the start menu, I delete tiles that visibly bother me and ignore what's left over. I use CCleaner for registry and freeing up memory...I've used it for nearly a decade without saving registry settings before deleting and it's never screwed up the system.

Mac OS's main draw for me is iCloud (which could be replicated via other services, although I'm not excited to work on that) and apps like Pages and Keynote, which I just find slicker and more functional than Microsoft Office (which I work in all the time, too).

I started this thread leaning towards Dell...but I'm starting to come back around to MBP...just worried about the keyboard and want to get a decent amount of bang for my buck, since I don't think I'll have access to money like this in the future.

Maybe the 2018 refresh will address the keyboard issues. It seems to be a weak point for the 2017 model if the comments here are any guide. One would hope Apple has gone back and worked on it.

 

[KGB7]

I usually find better deals and discounts. Sometimes refurbs.

I guess I’m lucky to have a Microcenter down the street from me, as they constantly have great deals on new products.

Even the 2018 Dell XPS is on sale and cheaper then buying directly from Dell.

 

[Maxx Power]

I guess I’m lucky to have a Microcenter down the street from me, as they constantly have great deals on new products.

I heard they are indeed pretty awesome. Unfortunately there are none near me...

 

[alphaswift]

This response is ridiculous and suggestive of the sinister groupthink that pervades Apple adherents.

lol wut? That was a perfectly fine response. If you have a machine you like, consider the upgrade before a replacement. It's kind of hard to find a new 17" MBP these days.

 

[weckart]

To me, this says it all. I can tolerate it to game once in a while, I guess. But I hate the maintenance and cleanup of Windows 10. Perhaps it's because I'm a designer, and I want things a bit more tidy and simple.

View attachment 758409

It's an eyesore but the first thing I do with a Windows install is to delete all the crapware and shovelware on the right of that menu, leaving just the alphabetical scrolling list on the side and maybe one or two key apps, like Explorer, Settings or the Cmd prompt on the right. I can't be bothered to keep scrolling away for those.

It's a pain having to uninstall all of the unwanted cruft that Microsoft bloats the installation with and was bad enough when it was Gateway, Dell, HP or Dell doing the bundling but there we are.

 

[TheBruno]

It's an eyesore but the first thing I do with a Windows install is to delete all the crapware and shovelware on the right of that menu, leaving just the alphabetical scrolling list on the side and maybe one or two key apps, like Explorer, Settings or the Cmd prompt on the right. I can't be bothered to keep scrolling away for those.

It's a pain having to uninstall all of the unwanted cruft that Microsoft bloats the installation with and was bad enough when it was Gateway, Dell, HP or Dell doing the bundling but there we are.

Yeah, I remember doing that. Then it all came roaring back to defaults after I installed an update. Fool me once...

 

[Jantelagen]

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[TheBruno]

I purchased a DELL years ago for my wife, and there were no retail stores then. The computer lasted a few months before we discovered that it had a faulty graphics card. Despite being perfectly capable of switching it out myself, I decided to have DELL replace it under warranty. We battled with their customer service for 6 months, spending upwards of 2 hours on the phone answering questions like 'Is the computer running?' or 'Does the mouse work okay?' until we demanded they repair the computer. They sent us a refurbished model (not even the one we purchased) and it only took half a year to get it! Plus, the specs were from the previous generation. I guess that was our consolation prize for working with DELL. If I even mention this experience in the vicinity of my wife, she always responds: 'Don't remind me of DELL.'

Shortly after that, we switched to Apple (circa 2007), and I've never considered purchasing DELL again.

 

[Jantelagen]

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[Queen6]

Maybe I'm petty, but if I spend close to 1425 bucks on a computer that's otherwise nicely put together in a well built chassis by a legitimate brand, I don't want this program preinstalled for my "gaming level performance" wifi card. I just don't. Ever.

And here's that awful MaxxAudio Pro application that's inexplicably needed for any kind of audio to work with the computer. That's right - you can't uninstall it without going to lengths (disabling services, rolling back to an older Windows default High Definition Audio driver etc.) no end user should have to when buying anything other than bargain bin computers. You see why I'm baffled as to why Dell is at least a semi-respected company, right?

Personally not a lot of time for Dell, you have to step up to the Precision range for a decent notebook IMHO, then pricing is far from attractive outside the US. If I was to purchase a Dell it would only be a 15" or 17" Precision, even then it would be the project that demanded.

Q-6

 

[macjunk(ie)]

Maybe I'm petty, but if I spend close to 1425 bucks on a computer that's otherwise nicely put together in a well built chassis by a legitimate brand, I don't want this program preinstalled for my "gaming level performance" wifi card. I just don't. Ever.

And here's that awful MaxxAudio Pro application that's inexplicably needed for any kind of audio to work with the computer. That's right - you can't uninstall it without going to lengths (disabling services, rolling back to an older Windows default High Definition Audio driver etc.) no end user should have to when buying anything other than bargain bin computers. You see why I'm baffled as to why Dell is at least a semi-respected company, right?

Yup. I hate this. But remember, this is not Dell. This is Windows. I gave up on this POS and only think in binary nowadays: OSX or Linux.
Hardware reliability is a tossup nowadays with both Apple, Dell and Lenovo capable of being d*icks.

I have had the opportunity to own laptops by all three companies and my best service experience was with Dell and Lenovo. The technicians came to my place the next day and repaired my laptop! With Apple, I have had the worst experience so far. On two occasions, they relented only after they lost a class action lawsuit. My 2015's SSD broke down and it took 3 weeks to get it repaired! I also hear that they take a week to resolve the keyboard issues with 2016 and 2017.

 

[TheBruno]

Maybe I'm petty, but if I spend close to 1425 bucks on a computer that's otherwise nicely put together in a well built chassis by a legitimate brand, I don't want this program preinstalled for my "gaming level performance" wifi card. I just don't. Ever.

And here's that awful MaxxAudio Pro application that's inexplicably needed for any kind of audio to work with the computer. That's right - you can't uninstall it without going to lengths (disabling services, rolling back to an older Windows default High Definition Audio driver etc.) no end user should have to when buying anything other than bargain bin computers. You see why I'm baffled as to why Dell is at least a semi-respected company, right?

Why on earth wouldn't you concede all freedom and function over to 'The Killer Control Center'?

 

[turbineseaplane]

Oh man..
Windows software sometimes..

"The Killer Control Center"!
POWER - YEAH! BOO-YAH

smh