Just got nMP - Base Model (Developer) - disappointing ....

[MacProCard]

Such a comparison isn't very telling given your reference system is at least six years old. You could very well make the same comment about the current Mini...silent and a lot faster.

As for the dual GPU this is something that sets the MP apart from other Macs. But it's use case is limited...and I suspect it will remain so for the foreseeable future.

The nMP is cool but it's, IMO, a very niche product. The tasks which really benefit from it are limited. Many who chose it, or are considering choosing it, might be better served with an iMac or Mini.

It's simple really. I COULD program on a 2005 Dell laptop if I wanted too. Just like I COULD tell time on a $10 quartz watch versus a $5600 Omega. BUT, some people prefer style, engineering, and status over just plain ole functionality. If you could afford these things than you'd better understand. Nobody really uses the power of the new imacs either but you don't discourage the purchase because that is your price bracket.

Understand life is about rungs and you're not really on the nMP level. So try not to bash what you clearly don't understand.

 

[Cubemmal]

The nMP isn't going to speed up your development significantly, except in a few cases. If you have enormous compile times then those should be faster due to I/O and CPU, though the consumer range CPU's are faster in single core performance.

The other thing - and one of the reasons I got it - is for the multi-monitor capability. I'm much more productive with triple screen. I don't like using laptops as desktops, and I don't like the iMac, so that leaves the Mac Pro.

Otherwise no, you were mistaken to think the nMP would make some huge difference in development. You can develop on an ARM if you like - that has enough performance. The computer horsepower has gone beyond what developers need.

 

[960design]

Well I'm jealous. I have a very little render farm ( dual 8 core Xeon, 16GB ram ) working their butts off. I believe your extremely quite, little thermos sized machine would probably destroy.

 

[reco2011]

It's simple really. I COULD program on a 2005 Dell laptop if I wanted too. Just like I COULD tell time on a $10 quartz watch versus a $5600 Omega. BUT, some people prefer style, engineering, and status over just plain ole functionality. If you could afford these things than you'd better understand. Nobody really uses the power of the new imacs either but you don't discourage the purchase because that is your price bracket.

Understand life is about rungs and you're not really on the nMP level. So try not to bash what you clearly don't understand.

I was pointing out a comparison between a 2007 system and a 2013 system is almost useless. One would expect a 2013 based system to be faster than a 2007 based system. As I said...the current Mac Mini would also offer a substantial increase over a 2007 based system.

The OP posted stating he was disappointed with the performance increase he observed with his nMP. It's my opinion the type of work the OP does does not take advantage of the nMP's strengths and therefore what he observed is to be expected. I suspect this is the case with others who are buying the nMP. Comparing it to the oMP isn't really valid either given the generational age of the oMP. IMO people would be better performing the comparison of the nMP to Apple's other, current offerings. At least then you're not comparing five year old technology to current technology.

With that said I am not knocking the nMP nor your decision to buy one. If you want one that's your business. There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying "I want one even though it wouldn't offer any benefits over an alternative". Likewise everyone making such a comment isn't ignorant of the nMP nor do they lack the financial means to buy one. I've considered buying one because I think they're cool looking, not because I need one. In fact if I do buy one it would be to give to my brother as he could better utilize it than I.

So please, stop being defensive. If you bought one because you wanted one great. Enjoy. But don't try and tell us you needed one...after all you were getting by just fine on 2007 technology when a current generation Mac Mini would walk all over that tech.

 

[Riwam]

I was pointing out a comparison between a 2007 system and a 2013 system is almost useless. One would expect a 2013 based system to be faster than a 2007 based system. As I said...the current Mac Mini would also offer a substantial increase over a 2007 based system.

The OP posted stating he was disappointed with the performance increase he observed with his nMP. It's my opinion the type of work the OP does does not take advantage of the nMP's strengths and therefore what he observed is to be expected. I suspect this is the case with others who are buying the nMP.

With that said I am not knocking the nMP nor your decision to buy one. If you want one that's your business. There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying "I want one even though it wouldn't offer any benefits over an alternative".

....................
People are not 100% rational performing robots, they have feelings, love and aesthetics taste.
They enjoy things they like even if another much less expensive thing might do as well.
Whoever buys a nMP even if a PC or Windows notebook could do the tasks he needs for much less money is treating himself with a piece of life pleasure.
There are so many wars, assaults, accidents, diseases and natural catastrophes not possible to avoid in this world that if one can buy a little piece of pleasure as long as one is still alive and healthy enough to enjoy it, it is perfectly fine IMHO.
If the OP is disappointed he made the wrong choice and can easily resell his computer to someone who might enjoy it or give it back if he is still in time for that.
If all problems in life could be solved so easily our world would be a better place for all of us...

 

[reco2011]

....................
People are not 100% rational performing robots, they have feelings, love and aesthetics taste.
They enjoy things they like even if another much less expensive thing might do as well.
Whoever buys a nMP even if a PC or Windows notebook could do the tasks he needs for much less money is treating himself with a piece of life pleasure.
There are so many wars, assaults, accidents, diseases and natural catastrophes not possible to avoid in this world that if one can buy a little piece of pleasure as long as one is still alive and healthy enough to enjoy it, it is perfectly fine IMHO.
If the OP is disappointed he made the wrong choice and can easily resell his computer to someone who might enjoy it or give it back if he is still in time for that.
If all problems in life could be solved so easily our world would be a better place for all of us...

What part of:

There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying "I want one even though it wouldn't offer any benefits over an alternative".​

Leads you to the conclusion I'm of the opinion one cannot buy something merely based on their want to do so?

 

[paulrbeers]

It's simple really. I COULD program on a 2005 Dell laptop if I wanted too. Just like I COULD tell time on a $10 quartz watch versus a $5600 Omega. BUT, some people prefer style, engineering, and status over just plain ole functionality. If you could afford these things than you'd better understand. Nobody really uses the power of the new imacs either but you don't discourage the purchase because that is your price bracket.

Understand life is about rungs and you're not really on the nMP level. So try not to bash what you clearly don't understand.

I'm confused, so you are saying that if you can afford to buy a Mac Pro you should just for the status of it? I can afford one, hell I could probably afford a pretty tricked out one, but I can't justify it. That's called making a sound financial decision. I'd rather put the money towards retirement, so that it is worth 50-100K when I retire than spend it on a machine I don't need.

I run a lot of VM's, but you know what? Running a Mid-Mini can easily run 3-4 of them at once (if you max out the RAM to 16GB as I have) with little to issue. I could buy 3 2012 Mid-Mini's + Max the RAM for the price of the entry level Mac Pro and easily run 12 VM's at a given time (if I needed to run that many at once) and no way would I be able to do that on a Base Mac Pro.

The other failure of your logic is about comparing a computer to a watch. An expensive watch is something you wear around and everyone sees it and it will (potentially) GAIN value over time. A workstation sits on your desk and only those who walk into your office will see it and over the next 5-10 years will only lose value (you can pick up a 2006 Mac Pro now for a couple hundred bucks on Craigslist).

P.S. Warren Buffet lives in a modest house that he has lived in since the 50's. Just because you have the means, doesn't mean you should blow it on extravagance.

 

[goMac]

I realize not all apps use all cores etc... but now I debating keeping the unit.

I think you're going about this the wrong way...

Compiling performance is very strongly linked to the number of cores. If your compiles are long, increasing the core count is an effective strategy to reducing your compile time.

A quad core CPU is going to be faster than a dual, but not dramatically. If your projects aren't very big you won't notice much either. If you have larger projects, it would probably have been worth it to move to a 6 or 8 core machine. The Mac Mini is 4 cores, so if you don't need the GPUs, the Mac Mini makes a much better four core machine.

But again, if your projects aren't very large, you don't need a very powerful machine to begin with.

 

[Riwam]

The other failure of your logic is about comparing a computer to a watch. An expensive watch is something you wear around and everyone sees it and it will (potentially) GAIN value over time. A workstation sits on your desk and only those who walk into your office will see it and over the next 5-10 years will only lose value (you can pick up a 2006 Mac Pro now for a couple hundred bucks on Craigslist).

P.S. Warren Buffet lives in a modest house that he has lived in since the 50's. Just because you have the means, doesn't mean you should blow it on extravagance.

An expensive watch or any other piece of jewelry is not bought as an investment and should not be used for PR but simply for one's own pleasure if it actually brings one. If however somebody prefers to use that money to help needed people and that brings him more satisfaction, then he belongs to a special kind of human beings.
However the person enjoying his watch or his nMP has his rights to do so.
If Warren Buffet or any other very rich man prefers to keep his money invested and live in modest conditions it is his choice. It makes him happy to live so.
If another rich person enjoys a house with a nice garden and a swimming pool it is also his choice.
Not everyone has the same pleasure out of the same things.
If someone enjoys having a nMP even if he does not need it, as long as he uses the money he honestly earned by himself to buy it, there is nothing wrong with it.
It will in time lose part of its value, of course, but less than a PC.
Few things in life keep their value or even increase it after many years.
Even collectors of works of art gamble with their acquisitions and not always succeed.
To think that the amount of a nMP could instead be used to secure one's old days is phantasy. The savings needed for a reasonable life in old age are in an entirely different realm to the price of a nMP or of a luxury watch.
Those amounts are peanuts compared to the actual needs when someone retires and still had some years to live.

 

[paulrbeers]

An expensive watch or any other piece of jewelry is not bought as an investment and should not be used for PR but simply for one's own pleasure if it actually brings one. If however somebody prefers to use that money to help needed people and that brings him more satisfaction, then he belongs to a special kind of human beings.
However the person enjoying his watch or his nMP has his rights to do so.
If Warren Buffet or any other very rich man prefers to keep his money invested and live in modest conditions it is his choice. It makes him happy to live so.
If another rich person enjoys a house with a nice garden and a swimming pool it is also his choice.
Not everyone has the same pleasure out of the same things.
If someone enjoys having a nMP even if he does not need it, as long as he uses the money he honestly earned by himself to buy it, there is nothing wrong with it.
It will in time lose part of its value, of course, but less than a PC.
Few things in life keep their value or even increase it after many years.
Even collectors of works of art gamble with their acquisitions and not always succeed.
To think that the amount of a nMP could instead be used to secure one's old days is phantasy. The savings needed for a reasonable life in old age are in an entirely different realm to the price of a nMP or of a luxury watch.
Those amounts are peanuts compared to the actual needs when someone retires and still had some years to live.

I have no issues with people spending money on material things. That wasn't what I was arguing. I don't care if one buys something unnecessary instead of helping some poor starving people of some African tribe I've never heard of, but to tell people you should buy X just because you hVe the money is ludicrous. Just because you have the means or on the "rung" to do so as he put it is laughable. That is the complete opposite thought of those with money (which is why those with money have money I guess!). I could easy plunk down 4-5k for a mid-level Mac Pro without batting an eye (especially since it would've a tax write off) but it just wouldn't make sense. I know that it would only give me joy for a few days and then would just another "thing" in my house that is most likely going under-utilized.

As for watches, sure that are an extravagance but they also are an investment. I've got a couple Tags (okay one working and one I just broke: oops), but I know unlike a cheap fossil or guess watch I can always turn around and sell them. 30 years from now they will still be worth what I paid if not more. Can't be said about a Mac Pro.

As for retirement, 50-100k isn't enough to retire on. I get that, but if you set aside every large purchase that is unnecessary and each one ultimately leads to 25k, 50k or 100k when you do, tge being a multimillionaire at retirement is easy. If you indulge at every turn then what will you have in 30-40 years?!?

No one has ever said: I wish I would have bought X when I was young instead of saving for retirement. However, I know many who have said: I wish I would have saved more instead of buying X Y and Z....

 

[MacProCard]

With that said I am not knocking the nMP nor your decision to buy one. If you want one that's your business. There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying "I want one even though it wouldn't offer any benefits over an alternative". Likewise everyone making such a comment isn't ignorant of the nMP nor do they lack the financial means to buy one. I've considered buying one because I think they're cool looking, not because I need one. In fact if I do buy one it would be to give to my brother as he could better utilize it than I.

So please, stop being defensive. If you bought one because you wanted one great. Enjoy. But don't try and tell us you needed one...after all you were getting by just fine on 2007 technology when a current generation Mac Mini would walk all over that tech.

The average user does email, internet, stream, and office applications. So why are you not in the mac mini section telling people they are overkill for their needs? And a waste of money? ...Like you are in the nMP section.

 

[reco2011]

The average user does email, internet, stream, and office applications. So why are you not in the mac mini section telling people they are overkill for their needs? And a waste of money? ...Like you are in the nMP section.

Are you arguing for the sake of being argumentative?

 

[MacProCard]

Are you arguing for the sake of being argumentative?

No. I own a nMP. Why are you here? Jealousy?

 

[reco2011]

No. I own a nMP. Why are you here? Jealousy?

I'll take your response as a yes.

 

[MacProCard]

I'll take your response as a yes.

Likewise

 

[paulrbeers]

The average user does email, internet, stream, and office applications. So why are you not in the mac mini section telling people they are overkill for their needs? And a waste of money? ...Like you are in the nMP section.

Maybe because the Mini is the cheapest Mac you can buy? Frankly, many of my family and friends, I've actually told to get Chromebooks. Who needs Windows or a Mac, if all you want to do is the above items.

 

[MacProCard]

Maybe because the Mini is the cheapest Mac you can buy? Frankly, many of my family and friends, I've actually told to get Chromebooks. Who needs Windows or a Mac, if all you want to do is the above items.

I get what you're saying. It just doesn't apply to nMP.

From a collector's point of view those Tags were a waste of money. Never will they be worth squat. Tags don't make their own movements. You bought glorified crap, and could have bought a watch that keeps much better time for a whole lot less.

 

[Riwam]

Are you arguing for the sake of being argumentative?

I believe in the right of everyone to have his/her own scale of values.
I admire those who invest their life, money and energy to help other people and am not proud not to be in that category.
I have pleasure with my nMP even if unfortunately I have no way to use it for pro, money making use.
I do not see anything glorious about it but believe that other people spend money in even less useful things and often even in harmful things.
Smokers invest during many years a lot of money harming themselves and shortening their life.
Hard drugs are even worse and might be very expensive as well.
If a nMP is a small luxury, I took that pleasure since I am 69 y.o. and this computer might well been my last one.
That there is nothing glorious about it does not mean one should be ashamed or feel stupid about it.
If someone just needs a Mac mini and is pleased with it, it is perfectly right.
To think about life investments in watches or any other devices of any kind is not the right and wise way to save for one's old age IMHO.
This forum isn't besides the right place for that kind of problems AFAIK.

 

[reco2011]

I believe in the right of everyone to have his/her own scale of values.
I admire those who invest their life, money and energy to help other people and am not proud not to be in that category.
I have pleasure with my nMP even if unfortunately I have no way to use it for pro, money making use.
I do not see anything glorious about it but believe that other people spend money in even less useful things and often even in harmful things.
Smokers invest during many years a lot of money harming themselves and shortening their life.
Hard drugs are even worse and might be very expensive as well.
If a nMP is a small luxury, I took that pleasure since I am 69 y.o. and this computer might well been my last one.
That there is nothing glorious about it does not mean one should be ashamed or feel stupid about it.
If someone just needs a Mac mini and is pleased with it, it is perfectly right.
To think about life investments in watches or any other devices of any kind is not the right and wise way to save for one's old age IMHO.
This forum isn't besides the right place for that kind of problems AFAIK.

I am in complete agreement. People are free to spend their money however they want. They need not justify it to anyone. I drive a $75K BMW because I like BMW's. I don't feel the need to justify that purchase to anyone. However that's a completely different discussion than one of suitability to task.

 

[MacProCard]

I am in complete agreement. People are free to spend their money however they want. They need not justify it to anyone. I drive a $75K BMW because I like BMW's. I don't feel the need to justify that purchase to anyone. However that's a completely different discussion than one of suitability to task.

But what if I decided to go over and give advice on the BMW boards saying 75k bummers were a stupid purchase. After all, they're the same size as a Honda Accord, tiny little girl trunks, and there's nothing special about the motors.

If I was to buy one, which I could, I'd probably just give it to some bum.

This one was for arguminative purposes.

 

[reco2011]

But what if I decided to go over and give advice on the BMW boards saying 75k bummers were a stupid purchase. After all, they're the same size as a Honda Accord, tiny little girl trunks, and there's nothing special about the motors.

If I was to buy one, which I could, I'd probably just give it to some bum.

This one was for arguminative purposes.

Show me where I ever said people were stupid for buying the nMP. Until such time you're arguing a strawman.

 

[Riwam]

Show me where I ever said people were stupid for buying the nMP. Until such time you're arguing a strawman.

Why not discuss in a friendly way?
This is just a forum of people interested in Macs and this section deals specifically with MP.
What does one lose to keep it nice and friendly?
And what benefit comes from any unpleasant written post?

 

[reco2011]

Why not discuss in a friendly way?
This is just a forum of people interested in Macs and this section deals specifically with MP.
What does one lose to keep it nice and friendly?
And what benefit comes from any unpleasant written post?

You'll have to direct that question to MacProCard. His posts have been nothing but confrontational.

 

[MacProCard]

You'll have to direct that question to MacProCard. His posts have been nothing but confrontational.

I'll admit I took some offense from your opinion on a product you don't own. Your analysis of things seemed a little skewed towards the sour grapes side. Especially when you consider your argument could be applied to all mac products imo.

 

[reco2011]

I'll admit I took some offense from your opinion on a product you don't own. Your analysis of things seemed a little skewed towards the sour grapes side. Especially when you consider your argument could be applied to all mac products imo.

What opinion offended you and why? And why do I need to own the product to offer certain comments about it?