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MattG

macrumors 68040
May 27, 2003
3,868
559
Asheville, NC
I had a 70-300 IS at one point and sold it because I couldn't work with it. Focus was slow, and in low light it was almost impossible.

As others here said, the 70-200 f/4 would be a much better purchase if you can deal without the 200-300 range. The glass and autofocus are superior. You give up IS but you get a faster lens anyway.
 

Clix Pix

macrumors Core
Chip beat me to it! I was going to suggest the 70-200 and a teleconverter, too, as that gives you more flexibility plus the longer length when you need it. From what people here are saying about the 70-300 that one doesn't sound as satisfactory a lens as the 70-200. I know that in Nikon's liine, that's the case, too: the fairly inexpensive 70-300 lens, while it does an OK job, cannot match the quality of either the 80-200 or the 70-200 VR.
 

Clix Pix

macrumors Core
cgratti said:
Return it and go with the 70-200 f/4 L from Canon. You will be happy you did! If your using a DSLR with a crop factor that makes it all the better for bringing in the action.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...198&is=USA&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

it's $544, and for about $25 more you can buy the 67mm UV filter for it and still have $$ left over for beer! Oh, your only 16... then you can buy soda!

or you can save all your birthday money from now until your about 30 yrs old and get this puppy!

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...153&is=USA&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

With all due respect I do not think it would be appropriate for him to return the lens he bought at his local store and then instead of buying the other lens there, going home and ordering online from B&H or some other online store.

Online stores have their place, but if everyone orders online all the time this could eventually sound the death knell for many independent or even chain brick-and-mortar camera stores. Personally I would hate to see that happen. I have established a very good relationship with one of the local camera shops in my community (I'm in an urban/suburban area) and to me this is invaluable and I have the kind of interactions and transactions that are just not possible when dealing with an online store. I can go into Penn and ask to see a particular item, ask questions about that item, use it on one of their demo cameras if it's a lens, and get honest feedback from the staff if this is really a good purchase for me. Since I've bought just about all of my gear there they know what I've got in the way of lenses and what my shooting patterns are. They also can see my physical stature and know that I'm not going to be buying a 500mm lens because I simply would not be able to physically handle it. They will bring out a lens and let me see for myself, though, too -- which is what we did a few days ago with the excellent 200-400mm lens. Had I ordered one of those from B&H sight unseen I would have been very unhappy at having to go through the hassle of returning the lens. Instead, I went to Penn and we took a 200-400mm out of the box and they let me attempt to handle it. That answered my question about that lens and the sales associate carefully repacked the lens into the box, ready for a customer who actually could benefit from using it. No pressure on me to buy, an honest and realistic assessment of my ability to work with that lens and that was that.

With the 200mm f/2 lens, it was a surprise to find that yes, I could handle that one (it's heavy, but well-balanced). Now had it turned out that I decided against purchasing that lens, too, fine, no questions asked.... The point being that in a brick-and-mortar store you do have the opportunity to touch, see, handle whatever it is you're interested in: tripods, cameras, lenses, camera bags....

cgratti said:
I guess I just don't have faith in the smaller stores when it comes to my equiptment and place my faith in B&H. And, $45 is $45.. if I can save $45 I will, even if it means not supporting a local store.

You had mentioned that the stores in your area seem to hire only teenagers who don't know that much about what they're selling. If this is a chain store in a mall, a store where most of the time customers are only interested in point-and-shoot cameras, yes, I can see how that would happen. Hey, people can and should research online before going to the store in that case so that they'd know they want an XYZ camera rather than a QXX or know that they want to compare two or three of them rather than being overwhelmed by the store's entire inventory.... Many times someone going to buy a P&S camera, though, is more interested in how much it's going to cost and how large or small it is and how big of a zoom it has, so the sales staff really don't have much opportunity to explain the finer points of each camera even if they know them. Many of those mall shops do not have much in the way of DSLRs or lenses, so of course the sales staff might not be knowledgeable about the merits of lens A over lens B.

Actually, when shopping for lenses, one should do the homework, too -- there are a lot of good online resources about lenses. If the brick-and-mortar store has the lens you want, regardless of the salesperson's knowledge bank or skill set, you have the benefit of immediate gratification, being able to use the lens immediately and if there are problems with it, easily being able to return it for exchange/replacement..... Tripods are the kind of thing it's good to actually see and handle, too. Many of the chain stores have only the less-expensive tripods and sometimes those are not actually a good deal if they're not all that sturdy. In a brick-and-mortar store you can see for yourself, play with various "heads" on the tripod, see what works best for you. In the end you're going home with the item which is best suited to your needs instead of doing guesswork by ordering online.

When going to a real full-service camera store which caters to professionals and enthusiasts as well as the point-and-shoot crowd, you should find a very different situation on the sales floor and behind the counter. There, sales associates are all very well-trained and very knowledgeable, most of them are photographers themselves. They have the good stuff, a good range of cameras, lenses and tripods and the knowledge to help the customer find exactly what is the best for him or her. Unfortuntely not every community has the benefit of a good full-service professional-level camera shop, and that is too bad. With people continuing to order online rather than availing themselves of the services at these stores, chances are that some of them will quietly close their doors, depriving the photographic community of a valuable resource.

Sure, I could've saved some money last week when I bought that very expensive lens at Penn rather than ordering it online at B&H, but I feel that I got more than just the lens; the outstanding customer service that came along with it, the fun we had with that lens at the store (sales associates loved the thing, too, as they don't often get to handle one) is worth far more than the cost difference between ordering online and purchasing locally.
 

jared_kipe

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2003
2,967
1
Seattle
iGary said:
So, it's a Mercedes, just without the things that make it a Mercedes? :p :D
You mean the Logo? Yes, basically it is an L lens without the L part.

70-300mm f4-5.6 USM IS is better than the 70-300mm f4.5-5.6 USM IS DO for a fraction the cost
http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/lenses/canon_70300_456is/index.htm
http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/lenses/canon_70300_4556do_is/index.htm

And its A LOT better in the 70-300mm range than the 28-300mm 3.5-5.6 IS L at less than 1/3 of the price.
http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/lenses/canon_28300_3556/index.htm


So YES, the only thing missing from this mercedes is the little logo.
 

law guy

macrumors 6502a
Jan 17, 2003
997
0
Western Massachusetts
law guy said:
Dark - is the extra range on the 300 important to you? If the 70-200 works, I would go with the 70-200 f4L http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=150&modelid=7345. It's a well respected lens and at less than $600 is one of the great L bargains out there. Link to some photographs on potn: http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=165363. Good luck.

Dark, one other thought - if you want a faster lens without the zoom - the 200mm 2.8L is mid $600. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...190&is=USA&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation. Still an L.

In addition, here's a 70-200 f4L photo I found on the potn forum of something similar to what you might be shooting: http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1480448&postcount=12
 

Clix Pix

macrumors Core
jared_kipe said:
You mean the Logo? Yes, basically it is an L lens without the L part.

70-300mm f4-5.6 USM IS is better than the 70-300mm f4.5-5.6 USM IS DO for a fraction the cost
http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/lenses/canon_70300_456is/index.htm
http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/lenses/canon_70300_4556do_is/index.htm

And its A LOT better in the 70-300mm range than the 28-300mm 3.5-5.6 IS L at less than 1/3 of the price.
http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/lenses/canon_28300_3556/index.htm


So YES, the only thing missing from this mercedes is the little logo.

I don't know anything about Canon lenses and the USM and L designations don't mean much to me, but I would hardly consider a slow lens such as mentioned above ranking in Mercedes quality -- with or without the logo. However, the fact that it does have Image Stabilization is a plus and goes a long way towards compensating for the slow speed.....
 

Chip NoVaMac

macrumors G3
Dec 25, 2003
8,888
31
Northern Virginia
Clix Pix said:
I don't know anything about Canon lenses and the USM and L designations don't mean much to me, but I would hardly consider a slow lens such as mentioned above ranking in Mercedes quality -- with or without the logo. However, the fact that it does have Image Stabilization is a plus and goes a long way towards compensating for the slow speed.....

To be honest, one needs to "drive" these lenses in the real world. It is all well and good to use tests and MTF tests to try to decide.But as my experiences with a Panasonic LX-1 has shown me, the nay sayers never have tried printing real images from that camera.

Too many people IMO are trying to say one lens (car) is better tan another - without really seeing how they perform in the real world. For us photographers, it means doing 13x19 prints from what we shoot. And my low rated LX-1 would please many IMO.
 

cgratti

macrumors 6502a
Dec 28, 2004
782
0
Central Pennsylvania, USA
Clix Pix said:
With all due respect I do not think it would be appropriate for him to return the lens he bought at his local store and then instead of buying the other lens there, going home and ordering online from B&H or some other online store.

I don't see a problem with it, he purchased a lens, and realized he wanted something different so returned it. If the store offers the new lens at the same price as an online store then he should buy it there, if not then he should buy it where he saves the money.

Clix Pix said:
Sure, I could've saved some money last week when I bought that very expensive lens at Penn rather than ordering it online at B&H, but I feel that I got more than just the lens; the outstanding customer service that came along with it, the fun we had with that lens at the store (sales associates loved the thing, too, as they don't often get to handle one) is worth far more than the cost difference between ordering online and purchasing locally.

I guess for me it's a little different, I have handled most of the Canon lenses and know how they operate, so when I buy a lens I know in advance what to expect. I would rather shop from the convenience of my own home than drive to a store and probably pay more for it + the gas to get there @ about $3.00 a gallon. I have noting against smaller stores, I just prefer to shop at the larger ones. Once I have faith in a store I will buy from them all the time.
 

Chip NoVaMac

macrumors G3
Dec 25, 2003
8,888
31
Northern Virginia
cgratti said:
I don't see a problem with it, he purchased a lens, and realized he wanted something different so returned it. If the store offers the new lens at the same price as an online store then he should buy it there, if not then he should buy it where he saves the money.

IMO then people that share your view should never wander off of your computer then. Never go in to a store to touch and feel the merchandise. Never go in and ask for help on an issue.

I would like to know what sort of job you have. So that I can go in ask ask for your help and go elsewhere for less cost. I am sure that you might not provide a true answer to that question. :)

As in another post here on MR, is $45 dollars worth it? Never mind taxes; most states require you to list it as "use tax". We won't get in to the issue when when you don't get the "services" that you think you "deserve" from your tax dollars.

I guess for me it's a little different, I have handled most of the Canon lenses and know how they operate, so when I buy a lens I know in advance what to expect. I would rather shop from the convenience of my own home than drive to a store and probably pay more for it + the gas to get there @ about $3.00 a gallon. I have noting against smaller stores, I just prefer to shop at the larger ones. Once I have faith in a store I will buy from them all the time.

How have you handled them? From local shops? Then shame on you. Great that you would rather shop from home. But how do you address sample differences? If there is a rebate, will your mail order company even care? Will the mail order company care to offer suggestions on how best to get the most from your purchase?

Boo-hoo over the $3 a gallon for gas. You probably spend much more on going out for entertainment. A red herring if I ever saw one.

You have one thing against "small stores", and that may be your states requirement to pay taxes even on out of state purchases.

How can you have faith in a store that you never can have a personal relationship with? Can they ask you how that lens worked for you at your nephew's soccer game? If not, are they willing to look past the "rules"?

Or maybe as Clix would share, did the rep argue against a purchase?

In the end it about relationships. But relationships are built on on both sides.

I would rather get service and support, than a better price. But that is my view. If I want price, I never go to those that provide support.
 

Abstract

macrumors Penryn
Dec 27, 2002
24,868
898
Location Location Location
If you know of an online store that offers great service, then go ahead and buy from there. I do. I know 2 stores that sell things online, even on eBay, but have brick-and-mortar stores and offer incredible service.

If you know of an online store that offers crap service, then either try another store, or try out a regular camera shop.

If you go to a brick-and-mortar shop and handle the product you're interested in, and then buy it online, then shame on you. There won't be any more stores to do this if you keep doing that.

If you go to a physical shop, handle the product you're interested in, and get absolutely crap service (ie: Ted's Cameras in Sydney......I won't forget), or if the salespeople have an obviously biased opinion, and then you go home and buy what you want online, I think that's ok. They lost your business or trust.

And in case you're wondering, I purchase online. Why? After my sometimes horrific, sometimes (slightly) pleasant experience at specialized camera shops with lots of DSLRs and lenses and such, I actually bought my D50 online on eBay, but the seller has a regular brick-and-mortar store in Sydney and I went to pick it up from them personally (Nikon On Broadway), and we talked for a while. Very professional, although a bit stuffy.

I bought my Tokina 12-24 mm from an online store, and I asked them about my vignetting experiences and possibly having it checked (I'll do it in a month or so if I feel it's a problem), and they've had 4.....yes, 4 people email me, including one of the co-owners of that store, the head technician, and someone else. I had a phone conversation with them as well. The owner said they had a conversation about it and spent some time trying to figure it out. But he said:

"all [he] can promise is that [he] started the firm in 1968 and have never done the wrong
thing by the thousands of clients that [his] staff have served in the last 34
years [he] incorporated in 1971. [He] looks forward to getting [me] to be a happy chap.
:)

I'm happy with that. :) Anyway, if you can find great online service, then buy online. If you can't, don't just buy online because it's cheaper. Great service is hard to get sometimes.
 

cgratti

macrumors 6502a
Dec 28, 2004
782
0
Central Pennsylvania, USA
Chip NoVaMac said:
I would like to know what sort of job you have. So that I can go in ask ask for your help and go elsewhere for less cost. I am sure that you might not provide a true answer to that question. :)

Unless you plan on doing some blasting onyour own and need advice on how to set up all the explosives then I cant help you there. Planning any escavating soon?

Chip NoVaMac said:
As in another post here on MR, is $45 dollars worth it? Never mind taxes; most states require you to list it as "use tax". We won't get in to the issue when when you don't get the "services" that you think you "deserve" from your tax dollars.

I still say saving $45 or MORE is worth it. And $45 is usually a low end number, I have seen the same lenses for over $100 less online than in my local store.


Chip NoVaMac said:
How have you handled them? From local shops? Then shame on you. Great that you would rather shop from home. But how do you address sample differences? If there is a rebate, will your mail order company even care? Will the mail order company care to offer suggestions on how best to get the most from your purchase?

I have handled most of the lenses through friends or relatives, but some at local shops. I do not feel guilty not supporting my local camera shops, they refuse to match or even get close to what I can buy online.

Chip NoVaMac said:
Boo-hoo over the $3 a gallon for gas. You probably spend much more on going out for entertainment. A red herring if I ever saw one. [/QUTOE]

Apparently you dont drive a car like everyone else and stay home all the time if you dont worry about the price of gas.

Chip NoVaMac said:
You have one thing against "small stores", and that may be your states requirement to pay taxes even on out of state purchases.

How can you have faith in a store that you never can have a personal relationship with? Can they ask you how that lens worked for you at your nephew's soccer game? If not, are they willing to look past the "rules"?
Or maybe as Clix would share, did the rep argue against a purchase?

In the end it about relationships. But relationships are built on on both sides.

I would rather get service and support, than a better price. But that is my view. If I want price, I never go to those that provide support.

I would rather save $45 or $100 and learn it on my own, maybe you need to stop having your hand held by everyone when making a purchase or learning how to use the camera and other accessories. You dont need a personal relationship to have faith that a store can provide a great service for you at a FAIR price.
 

jared_kipe

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2003
2,967
1
Seattle
Clix Pix said:
I don't know anything about Canon lenses and the USM and L designations don't mean much to me, but I would hardly consider a slow lens such as mentioned above ranking in Mercedes quality -- with or without the logo. However, the fact that it does have Image Stabilization is a plus and goes a long way towards compensating for the slow speed.....
Maybe its an E class diesel :p
There are plenty of quality lenses that are f5.6, the important thing is that they are sharp wide open, and this one is.
 

Clix Pix

macrumors Core
cgratti said:
I would rather shop from the convenience of my own home than drive to a store and probably pay more for it + the gas to get there @ about $3.00 a gallon. I have noting against smaller stores, I just prefer to shop at the larger ones. Once I have faith in a store I will buy from them all the time.

The store where I shop is part of a six-store company; I dont know if their warehouse is as large as the one B&H presumably has, but certainly Penn is able to fulfill any requests a customer might have, either by displaying inventory right in a store itself or by having it transferred from another store or sent over from the warehouse. As for the "convenience factor," my local shop isn't all that far from where I live and often I run other errands along the way, too (which is what I try to do most of the time when going out in the car). Lately I've been going into Penn more frequently than I had in a while but certainly it's not an everyday or every week occurrence. When I stop in at Penn, whether it's to pick up a CF card holder or a new lens, it's always a time for not only a business transaction but also pleasant conversation and a little fun with the gang at the store....

I definitely have implicit faith in Penn, no question about it! Far more than I would have in a distant NYC store, regardless of how great their inventory might be or how inexpensively they'll sell their products or how they conveniently don't charge state taxes..... or how deceptively convenient it might seem to order online rather than to walk into a brick-and-mortar store.
 

Clix Pix

macrumors Core
Chip NoVaMac said:
Or maybe as Clix would share, did the rep argue against a purchase?

Exactly! When I asked to see the 200mm f/2 VR Chip asked me why I might be interested in that lens, because he knows that I've already got the excellent 180mm f/2.8 and the fantastic 70-200mm f/2.8 VR lenses....so why was I expressing interest in the 200mm? Obviously it is in the same ball park as far as range and it is a little faster, but not THAT much more so.... I explained that I use each of the other lenses under specific conditions and that I was interested in seeing the 200mm f/2 because it is an extremely fast prime at that length, has exquisite bokeh and that I thought that I could use it in particular situations. He cheerfully put in the request to the warehouse and the lens was at the store the next day.

I had never seen the 200m f/2 VR in person, as none of my IRL photography friends has one, but I had seen many fine examples of images from this lens from friends online at the Nikon Cafe. In fact there is a very lengthy thread in the Lens Lust forum devoted to just this one lens. Anyway, once I handled her, it was instant love, even though she's heavy and not exactly a lens to toss casually into a bag as one is running out the door for a quick shoot. In the store, we had fun with her. I shot a few frames on the CF card, Chip shot with her and so did one of the other sales associates. We all marveled at the speedy focus, the sharp images even wide-open (store lighting is a good test of a fast lens!)...

Once again Chip and I had the discussion about whether or not I REALLY needed this lens, what I can do with it that cannot also be done with the 70-200 or the 180.... In other words he attempted to play devil's advocate, indicating that in his mind this was a decision not to be made lightly, that it was important to be sure that purchasing this lens was in my best interests. Sure, the store would benefit if I purchased it, but if I did not, he would simply pack it back up and either put it on the store shelves or perhaps return it to the warehouse until the next time someone requested that lens.... They don't work on commission there so it was no skin off his nose if I bought it or did not buy it. He just wanted to be sure that I would be happy and satisfied with this lens.

If I were to bring the lens home and discover that there were a major issue with it, say back-focusing when shooting at distant subjects, which has been a reported concern with some copies of this lens, fine, no problem for me to take the lens back over to Penn and the situation would be addressed. (I haven't had the time yet to do enough shooting with this len to determine whether or not back-focusing IS a problem.) On the other hand if I had ordered it online, it would be a hassle to contact the store and arrange to send it back or to have to figure out on my own how to send it to Nikon for repair or calibration.

If I had ordered this lens through an online store, it would have arrived on my doorstep and while I would've had fun opening the box for the first time and playing with the lens, it was just really neat sharing the experience with people at the store. We all had fun with it. That is a very tangible benefit of buying in person in a brick-and-mortar store.


I agree wholeheartedly with what Chip writes here:

ChipNoVaMac said:
In the end it about relationships. But relationships are built on on both sides.

I would rather get service and support, than a better price. But that is my view. If I want price, I never go to those that provide support.
 

Clix Pix

macrumors Core
Abstract said:
Anyway, if you can find great online service, then buy online. If you can't, don't just buy online because it's cheaper. Great service is hard to get sometimes.

Sounds as though you've had very positive experiences with shopping online -- and that it was advantageous in the one instance to be able to go to the store's actual brick-and-mortar facility to pick up your camera....you had the best of both worlds in that situation!
 

Clix Pix

macrumors Core
cgratti said:
I would rather save $45 or $100 and learn it on my own, maybe you need to stop having your hand held by everyone when making a purchase or learning how to use the camera and other accessories. You dont need a personal relationship to have faith that a store can provide a great service for you at a FAIR price.

For me, it's not a matter of learning it on my own" or a need to have my hand held when making a purchase; I value the time spent by sales associates in interacting with me, even if it is during a simple no-brainer transaction such as buying spare batteries or CF card holders, because I am aware that when the time comes for a major purchase or resolution of a major problem or if I DO have questions and concerns about any of my purchases that the same care and service will be available to me. IMHO money isn't the only important factor in any transaction.

And by the way, Penn offers all of their items at a FAIR price. More than that, I buy with confidence there, knowing that the merchandise is as promised, is as the manufacturer initially packed it in the box, and that if there are any issues there will be quick and fair resolution. I enjoy the personal interactions with staff at the store, too, as it puts a human face on the transaction rather than being an anonymous one. For me, it's worth the price of having to pay state sales tax.
 

Clix Pix

macrumors Core
jared_kipe said:
Maybe its an E class diesel :p
There are plenty of quality lenses that are f5.6, the important thing is that they are sharp wide open, and this one is.

:D :D (Have to admit I'm not too familiar with the E class diesel, either!)

Yes, you're right, Jared, that it's important that a lens, regardless of speed, be sharp, especially when wide open.

Now I'm curious about Canon's various designations on their lenses: what do the "L" and "USM" letters mean, and are there other categories into which they put their lenses? I do know that IS means Image Stabilization. Nikon's version is Vibration Reduction. I would guess that they are much the same thing based on similar technology. I have the impression that Canon seem to have a little broader choice in lenses than Nikon does, a few more in each price range, perhaps?
 

Chip NoVaMac

macrumors G3
Dec 25, 2003
8,888
31
Northern Virginia
Clix Pix said:
If I had ordered this lens through an online store, it would have arrived on my doorstep and while I would've had fun opening the box for the first time and playing with the lens, it was just really neat sharing the experience with people at the store. We all had fun with it. That is a very tangible benefit of buying in person in a brick-and-mortar store.

Thanks Clix for the warm words. :)

Without sharing too much, I still smile in remembering how you reacted in handling of your new "baby", Bertie. :)

To be honest I do see the value in opposite comments about local dealers. I am lucky to work for a shop with 6 stores and a strong commercial and government group. And you benefit too, as our customer. I realize that some don't have strong shops with a rapid turn over in inventory, so it is harder for them to give in to pricing pressures by net shoppers.

Over time the shop I work for has become more competitive with the likes of B&H. Some times we are even with each other. Other times they do beat us. But they do have the advantage of a volume from net sales that allows them to be lower some times. But not by much most of the time. Just like the $45 difference on the 70-200L f4 lens. That $45 is what allows us to have people come by and touch and feel that lens.

Customer service is a slippery slope to discuss. For it means different things to different people. For you it may be the ability to touch and feel, and be questioned as to why you want a particular lens. For others it is simply being able to get an RMA to return a purchase.

Heck, I have even bought stuff from B&H recently. My Panasonic LX-1 and second 420EX flash is from B&H. The LX-1 because the Leica D-lux 2 did not offer enough value for me personally. I had CS2 to handle the RAW format, and the 2 year Leica passport warranty did not concern me - since I will most likely find another camera within a year and half that will entice me even more. We are not a Panasonic dealer, so I shopped B&H.

The 420EX, because it seems that B&H may have bought out the remaining stock from Canon. B&H offered it at a price that I could not even get by buying it from Canon - if they had any left. :) Our being a Canon dealer gives me a leg up if I had any issues with that flash purchase. So my situation is different from most.
 

Chip NoVaMac

macrumors G3
Dec 25, 2003
8,888
31
Northern Virginia
Clix Pix said:
Now I'm curious about Canon's various designations on their lenses: what do the "L" and "USM" letters mean, and are there other categories into which they put their lenses? I do know that IS means Image Stabilization. Nikon's version is Vibration Reduction. I would guess that they are much the same thing based on similar technology. I have the impression that Canon seem to have a little broader choice in lenses than Nikon does, a few more in each price range, perhaps?

Sorry to those that dislike multiple posts, but I thought it would be better to answer this separately. :)

Clix, Canon uses the "L" designation to denote a higher quality lens. Some of the factors to get the "L" designation is the glass that is used, most are weather sealed, and they are generally thought to be the best optically. You as a Nikon user have many of these same qualities in lenses like the 70-200VR; or as you have posted else where the "Three Kings" of Nikon lenses.

"USM" denotes Canon's Ultra Sonic Motor, which is similar to Nikon's AF-S Silent Wave Motor. USM lenses generally focus faster and quieter than Canon's standard ring motor. The standard ring motor has no equivalent in the Nikon world as far as I know.

Canon and Nikon go back and forth with meeting the competition in lenses. Nikon has the excellent 17-55 f2.8, and Canon is soon to ship their 17-55IS f2.8 lens with image stabilization. Score one for Canon IMO. But then Nikon has the highly rated 18-200VR, but Canon does not have a similar lens, even without IS. Score one for Nikon. And so far Nikon does not have a consumer grade 70-300 lens with image stabilization. Score one for Canon. Yet Nikon does offer a some what affordable fish-eye lens for the smaller DSLR sensor, while that is currently missing for Canon. Score one for Nikon.

I think you are seeing the point. :) It goes back and forth between Nikon and Canon. If one is starting fresh, one has to look at the current offerings in lens stock to try and make a best guess as to whom one wants to hitch their star on.

I have been a Canon user since the 10D, even have an XT, and even before that. I bought the D50 to support the 18-200VR and in the end the 10.5 fish-eye. I am now at a cross-road point. I have some great glass for my Canon. As well as a two flash wireless system for my XT, which was added just before I got my D50 kit. :eek:

I am now leaning towards selling the Canon stuff in order to convert to Nikon. But it is hard to think about the money loss, in particular with my late purchases for the Canon kit. :) But as I use the D50 more, I see myself wanting just wanting to go Nikon. I went with the D50 solely as a travel kit with the 18-200VR, as opposed as to going with a Panasonic FZ kit.


One of the hazards of working in a camera store. :)
 

Clix Pix

macrumors Core
Chip NoVaMac said:
Thanks Clix for the warm words. :)

Without sharing too much, I still smile in remembering how you reacted in handling of your new "baby", Bertie. :)

:) Yeah, you and the others got a big kick out of how I couldn't keep my hands off her, kept stroking Bertha the way I would a beloved dog or cat! Heh, when I brought her home my own real kitty was a little confused when I started stroking this big black creature after I'd settled her in on my camera. In fact Harry was so confused that I managed to grab a couple of shots of him before it dawned on him that, oh, this was another of those things that makes a funny clunking noise every time it's pointed in his direction....he promptly turned away. Talk about camera-shy....

ChipNoVaMac said:
Customer service is a slippery slope to discuss. For it means different things to different people. For you it may be the ability to touch and feel, and be questioned as to why you want a particular lens. For others it is simply being able to get an RMA to return a purchase.

Definitely a good point there, Chip. Along with the touching/seeing aspect, I prefer the human interaction during a transaction, especially during a big purchase, and I definitely prefer being able to simply go back to the store if problems arise. Others may choose to order online and then request an RMA if it is necessary to return a problem purchase. However, also in all fairness, it's true that some may be unable to shop at a good brick-and-mortar camera store because none are available in their area and therefore they do head to the computer to make online purchases or pick up the phone and call a store not in their area.
 

Clix Pix

macrumors Core
Chip NoVaMac said:
Sorry to those that dislike multiple posts, but I thought it would be better to answer this separately. :)

Clix, Canon uses the "L" designation to denote a higher quality lens. Some of the factors to get the "L" designation is the glass that is used, most are weather sealed, and they are generally thought to be the best optically. You as a Nikon user have many of these same qualities in lenses like the 70-200VR; or as you have posted else where the "Three Kings" of Nikon lenses.

"USM" denotes Canon's Ultra Sonic Motor, which is similar to Nikon's AF-S Silent Wave Motor. USM lenses generally focus faster and quieter than Canon's standard ring motor. The standard ring motor has no equivalent in the Nikon world as far as I know.

Thank you, Chip, for that nice, clear explanation and for drawing parallels to the Nikon line for further clarification. Got it now!

Yes, that Nikon 18-200 VR is a real beauty and the IQ is right up there, very close to some of the pro lenses at a fraction of the price. I love this lens! Rumor has it that one of these days Nikon is going to issue a new version of the 70-300, one which would be welcomed by many, especially if it includes VR. One of these days I'll be adding that fun little 10.5 fisheye to my camera bag -- it can certainly produce cool results!

Definitely when someone is just starting out with buying a digital (or for that matter, film) SLR, it's important for them to realize that they're not just buying "a camera," but rather buying into a whole system. While I have heard of people selling off all their lenses and bodies from one manufacturer and switching to the other (and undoubtedly taking a wallop financially) it is more the norm that someone buys into a given line and sticks with it as he or she adds more lenses and other accessories down the road. For me, with the investment I"ve got in Nikon gear, there is no consideration about switching to Canon. Again, too, back at the point when I didn't yet have lenses or the body, the day I was considering going with a DSLR, I headed right to Nikon because I had used their film SLRs in the past and also had used several Coolpixes. Picking up the D70 for the first time brought back memories of my N90s, although it was a different camera.... Probably if way back when, I'd used Canon SLRs I would have instinctively headed for a Canon when I was ready to jump into DSLRs.

ChipNoVAMac said:
I am now leaning towards selling the Canon stuff in order to convert to Nikon. But it is hard to think about the money loss, in particular with my late purchases for the Canon kit. :) But as I use the D50 more, I see myself wanting just wanting to go Nikon. I went with the D50 solely as a travel kit with the 18-200VR, as opposed as to going with a Panasonic FZ kit.

One of the hazards of working in a camera store. :)

Hey, if you do decide to go all-Nikon, definitely grab a D200 whenever you can -- I know they're still scarce as hen's teeth -- that's the Nikon DSLR to have, using your D50 as a second, backup body. Hey, maybe one day I'll even let you play with Bertha! ;)
 

Mike Teezie

macrumors 68020
Nov 20, 2002
2,205
1
Dark said:
Wow, it seems I havent posted here for quite some time. However my 16th birthday is on Friday and I already spent my birthday money haha. I really have been in the market for a good telephoto lens lately and I finally bought one. I race motocross, so Im always at the races capturing shots. I needed a good lens. It was 650 dollars, and I want to know if I made the right desicion. I can always bring it back so no big deal. Be honest. Thanks alot.

Dark, I would heavily consider following others' advice here, and returning that lens for the Canon 70-200 f/4L. If nothing else, for the faster focusing.

I had the f/4L, and it was a great lens - light, fast focusing, and quiet. I loved the fact that it's internal zoom, meaning the lens didn't expand when you zoomed in. The only reason I got rid of it was to purchase the 70-200 f/2.8L IS.

The 70-300 focuses slllooowwwwwwllyyy. For your uses, I don't think it's going to cut the mustard.
 

law guy

macrumors 6502a
Jan 17, 2003
997
0
Western Massachusetts
For me, Penn Camera and B&H are the same - brick and mortar stores with websites for internet sales. I've posted here with my experiences with my local store where I purchased my 30D (these are folks who seem annoyed that anyone comes in the store). Don't be too hard on these folks, they may not live where there is a good camera store or just have a not so good one.

Now, I may even use Penn in the future if I can get Chip to test shot lenses for me before he ships them to confirm a good copy. :)
 

Dark

macrumors regular
Original poster
Aug 22, 2005
209
5
New Jersey
Well guys, I really appreciate all these replies and the Happy Birthdays. It means alot to me. Im back from my trip to Vegas where I went to see the Supercross Championship. It was awesome. As far as the lens goes, I think with all the advice, im going to return my lense for the 70-200 f/FL. The 70-300 IS/USM shot great it daylight condition with still subjects. Then, it startet to go downhill a tad with the moving subjects in Daylight. Then it was extremely difficult to get a good shot of a fast moving subject in so/so light conditions. At first I thought the 70-300 was a big difference in focal length compared to the 70-200. Then i realized the extra 100mm was really nothing. The image stabilization was nice, but it really diddnt makeup for the loss in light entering the lens. My friend has the 70-200L and ive used it before. Im just iffy, because its still hard to get a good shot of a moving subject. Heres some shots from Vegas. Im relatively new to Photog. so be gentle:D .


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88/Bottega/_MG_2636.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88/Bottega/_MG_2661.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88/Bottega/_MG_2662.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88/Bottega/_MG_2709.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88/Bottega/_MG_2735.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88/Bottega/_MG_2743.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88/Bottega/_MG_2750.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88/Bottega/_MG_2803.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88/Bottega/_MG_2983.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88/Bottega/_MG_3053.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88/Bottega/_MG_3058.jpg

Sorry, Im in a rush. Please just copy the links in and take the time to look at the pictures. All comments/criticism is appreciated. EDIT: Oh Snap, it did it for me!

I mean, theres a bunch more pics that are good too. But out of the 300+ pictures I took, only a slight few I felt were worthy. Especially since most of the racing shots were all blury. Hopefully the faster focusing f/4L lense will help.
 
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