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Wrong perspective. AR/VR/MR markets already failed several times unlike iPhone as it grew up continuously since 2007.
Go watch General Magic, some of the original Macintosh team tried to make the iPhone in the early 90s. Touch screen phone with apps etc. And it failed. Apple succeeded a decade later.

Apple can do this.

I own a Vision Pro and it’s a very exciting journey to be on already. The last update alone added so much value, adding what many will consider the killer app.
 
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You both are missing the point.
A new Vision Pro will be released in 2025. Once it gets announced at WWDC25, hardly anyone will want to buy the current version.
Apple already had plans to launch in other countries; no surprise here.
If they already have enough stock, it makes no sense to continue manufacturing and later have to deal with something that will hardly sell.
Nothing surprising here. We all know that when certain item goes low on stock it is most likely due to a new version going to be released in the near future. You don't know the whole story behind this decision, so how could you criticize it as if you were an industry expert?
There’s a new iphone coming out in 2025. So apple should just stop production right now. Oh. They’re not? Because current stock would sell out? Yeah. Different products but you get the idea. Objectively, if it was selling well they would need to keep replenishing stock through out the year at LEAST until an announcement about another one was made. Multiple insider leaks have also revealed apple themselves knows its not selling well. These aren’t hugely disputed facts. So me saying “Apple needs to work on appealing to broader markets“ isn’t exactly some insane opinion like I’m just here to bash.
 
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Let's be honest.

The current Vision Pro has No Future.
It's a test device.
As with the 1st gen Apple Watch, a LOT will change with the next model.

Long term this product will be scrapped totally for AR Glasses, but it will take a few years for that tech to mature.
Until then, Vision Pro will get a few updates, and some changes, but it's a dead long term product.

However, it's only money, so if that's fine for you, just enjoy today what's for sale today and don't worry about the future.
 
Let's be honest.

The current Vision Pro has No Future.
It's a test device.
As with the 1st gen Apple Watch, a LOT will change with the next model.

Long term this product will be scrapped totally for AR Glasses, but it will take a few years for that tech to mature.
Until then, Vision Pro will get a few updates, and some changes, but it's a dead long term product.

However, it's only money, so if that's fine for you, just enjoy today what's for sale today and don't worry about the future.

Of course long term AR glasses is where the AVP is heading. Who is honestly arguing differently? Not anybody sane that I’m aware of. AR glasses that aren’t much thinker than regular glasses that can do what the AVP can do don’t exist. Nobody wants to be in public wearing googles. The AVP is not going to be the form factor Apple is selling this technology in 5 to 10 years down the road. AR glasses not much thicker than regular glasses is the form factor that could sell if the price is right. It’s that simple.

A new product with a new UI and form factor will have the best chance of succeeding in the marketplace against its competitors if that product can hit the ground running with a solid, refined OS and both pre-existing app and content ecosystems already in place surrounding it.

Those things don’t grow on treees or just appear. You’ve got to plant some seeds and grow them unless the technology is so mind blowing both the demand among consumers and developers grows on its own.

We saw that with the iPhone but some of that was having the right idea and the right product at the right place and the right time. There was an element of luck / great timing involved. Apple is wise not to cross their fingers and hope it all happens again for whatever “next big thing” competes with or replaces the smart phone.

That’s what these early versions of the hardware, software, SDK and APIs are all about. It’s also why getting the hardware and software tools necessary for producing immersive video was important enough to dedicate time to during this years WWDC. Immersive video is amazing but if the hardware or software to produce it doesn’t exist, costs a fortune, etc. then content creators won’t even consider creating content in the format. It’s also why getting the technology for spatial pictures and videos into iPhones is important.

The AVP is the opening salvo in a medium to long term strategy that may or may not ultimately pan out. I don’t understand why so many people bag on Apple for it. If you don’t like it then don’t buy one. Pretty simple isn’t it? Im not talking about the people posting on this thread. This one is aimed at the lunatics on the front page who visit every AVP related story acting personally offended that some of us actually enjoy the product, don’t regret our purchase and are perfectly fine owning a product that is presently geared toward a very niche market.
 
Of course long term AR glasses is where the AVP is heading. Who is honestly arguing differently? Not anybody sane that I’m aware of. AR glasses that aren’t much thinker than regular glasses that can do what the AVP can do don’t exist. Nobody wants to be in public wearing googles. The AVP is not going to be the form factor Apple is selling this technology in 5 to 10 years down the road. AR glasses not much thicker than regular glasses is the form factor that could sell if the price is right. It’s that simple.

A new product with a new UI and form factor will have the best chance of succeeding in the marketplace against its competitors if that product can hit the ground running with a solid, refined OS and both pre-existing app and content ecosystems already in place surrounding it.

Those things don’t grow on treees or just appear. You’ve got to plant some seeds and grow them unless the technology is so mind blowing both the demand among consumers and developers grows on its own.

We saw that with the iPhone but some of that was having the right idea and the right product at the right place and the right time. There was an element of luck / great timing involved. Apple is wise not to cross their fingers and hope it all happens again for whatever “next big thing” competes with or replaces the smart phone.

That’s what these early versions of the hardware, software, SDK and APIs are all about. It’s also why getting the hardware and software tools necessary for producing immersive video was important enough to dedicate time to during this years WWDC. Immersive video is amazing but if the hardware or software to produce it doesn’t exist, costs a fortune, etc. then content creators won’t even consider creating content in the format. It’s also why getting the technology for spatial pictures and videos into iPhones is important.

The AVP is the opening salvo in a medium to long term strategy that may or may not ultimately pan out. I don’t understand why so many people bag on Apple for it. If you don’t like it then don’t buy one. Pretty simple isn’t it? Im not talking about the people posting on this thread. This one is aimed at the lunatics on the front page who visit every AVP related story acting personally offended that some of us actually enjoy the product, don’t regret our purchase and are perfectly fine owning a product that is presently geared toward a very niche market.
Honestly i don’t think apple is super shocked at this being a niche product. People act like Tim Cook must have thought this was going to be the next iphone but if apple did ANY market research they would have seen that meta sells theirs for $500 and its still a pretty niche market. Price a product at 7x that? Still a niche market.

Like you said. Apple is laying the ground work. I would just really love to see their road map and what they have planned. i would be pretty disappointed if the rumors about them pushing a cheaper apple vision product to 2027 was true. We need this product to take off
 
We were supposed to be seeing what Google/Samsung were going to be bringing to the table about now.
but I suspect they have all been watching the Vision Pro with great interest and possibly changed plans.

Many may disagree but $500 is a very nice spot to be in.
It's still a good chunk of money for a typical household on a non essential product, but it's not stupidly out of reach.

If you aim for just $1000 then you have instantly changed it from a I'll have a go and see how I feel, to a I won't bother as I don't really need it device.
 
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I don't disagree at all that this is primarily a developer product, that's not priced at, nor aimed at a normal consumer.
Tim Cook right now is basically saying as much.

But I don't buy for one second that this was true a year ago.
Their adverts were very much advertising this as a consumer product for normal consumers in normal home use.

Fair enough, I know when you bring out a new untested product you don't really know how it's going to be received.
But please lets be honest, and don't pretend that Apple was only focusing this on devs/creators as a test product.
 
I don't disagree at all that this is primarily a developer product, that's not priced at, nor aimed at a normal consumer.
Tim Cook right now is basically saying as much.

But I don't buy for one second that this was true a year ago.
Their adverts were very much advertising this as a consumer product for normal consumers in normal home use.

Fair enough, I know when you bring out a new untested product you don't really know how it's going to be received.
But please lets be honest, and don't pretend that Apple was only focusing this on devs/creators as a test product.
I agree entirely, a year ago at the launch it was very much marketed as an immersive experience for leisure and productivity and shown in a domestic setting. There was talk here about it replacing our iPads and laptops with the high price justified by highlighting that early Mac's were thousands in the 80's. The tech market is enormous now and average people don't need to spend £4k on a AR headset to consume content. Its one of those nice, cool gadgets that is priced entirely wrong for the average Joe, hence why YouTubers and developers seem to be the primary customers. I think Apple were testing the market and now they know unless its priced competitively, its not going to wash for their core customer base.
 
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I don't disagree at all that this is primarily a developer product, that's not priced at, nor aimed at a normal consumer.
Tim Cook right now is basically saying as much.

But I don't buy for one second that this was true a year ago.
Their adverts were very much advertising this as a consumer product for normal consumers in normal home use.

Fair enough, I know when you bring out a new untested product you don't really know how it's going to be received.
But please lets be honest, and don't pretend that Apple was only focusing this on devs/creators as a test product.

It absolutely was true one year ago. Seriously people, don’t you think people at Apple are smart enough to know that a product that STARTS at $3500 isn’t going to be a smash hit that everyone has to have.

Just stop and think about it for more than two seconds.
 
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It absolutely was true one year ago. Seriously people, don’t you think people at Apple are smart enough to know that a product that STARTS at $3500 isn’t going to be a smash hit that everyone has to have.

Just stop and think about it for more than two seconds.
I don't disagree with you and I sincerely hope that Apple are not that delusional.
However that does not in anyway change the fact that of you look back at Apple's official video's to show the Vision Pro in use, they were VERY MUCH aiming this as normal people, doing normal every say things.
Their marketing was totally aimed at a normal people using in during day to day tasks, which flies in the face of them now saying it's was only really an experimental dev product and not really a consumer product.
 
It absolutely was true one year ago. Seriously people, don’t you think people at Apple are smart enough to know that a product that STARTS at $3500 isn’t going to be a smash hit that everyone has to have.

Just stop and think about it for more than two seconds.
No. This is no place for critical thinking.

This forums stance is that despite the fact that suppliers could only produce enough components for less than half a million TOTAL units in 2024, Apple was magically expecting tens of millions of people to be walking around in the streets with AVP strapped to their faces.

This tech forum is borderline delusional in taking the wishcasting of brain dead analysts over the hard material reality of how many of these things can even be produced.
 
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I don't disagree with you and I sincerely hope that Apple are not that delusional.
However that does not in anyway change the fact that of you look back at Apple's official video's to show the Vision Pro in use, they were VERY MUCH aiming this as normal people, doing normal every say things.
Their marketing was totally aimed at a normal people using in during day to day tasks, which flies in the face of them now saying it's was only really an experimental dev product and not really a consumer product.
I think the marketing is aspirational. That is where they hope the product will get to some years down the line. I doubt that anyone at Apple thought that this generation of the VP, with its near $4000 price tag and very limited production capacity, would achieve mass market sales.
 
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I think the marketing is aspirational. That is where they hope the product will get to some years down the line. I doubt that anyone at Apple thought that this generation of the VP, with its near $4000 price tag and very limited production capacity, would achieve mass market sales.
I can accept what you are saying as "Aspirational" if I'm being generous ;)

I still have a slightly uncomfortable feeling with what we must assume their honest outlook was and the marketing direction.
I have no problem with the Vision Pro and it's Price.
I have no problem releasing a high end VR headset to get it out into the hands of devs to "build for the future"
I have no problem with showing an affordable headset being used in everyday "around the house" usage situations.

I'm just not comfortable with all that being pushed onto the public as the same problem.
It's very Un-Apple like to do this.

To be honest I don't think they have any idea what to do now.
Make a worse quality $2000 headset = fail.
Make an improved Vision Pro M5 ect = very nice, but still fail.
Make a much cheaper $1000 model = Good be ok, but it's going to need to be better than a Quest 4 by then.
Copy Meta Raybans = probably the best most sensible thing they could do and forget VR headsets till the tech improves. And just fiddle with the Vision pro for the small market that wants it.
 
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The fact that AVP is a total failure comes as no surprise to me. To be a sucess, there are a lot of things wrong with VR as a whole that Apple needed to solve, and they pretended that none of those things mattered.

Comfort and form factor is a big issue. Allegedly, some of Apple's engineers wanted to keep all the compute hardware on a separate device (kind of like Meta's AR glasses prototype), which would have made the headset much smaller and lighter--- but Apple forced them to put it all inside the headset because it's more Apple that way.

Killer apps are a big issue. The general public doesn't see any obvious use-case as to why they need to spend money on VR. For Meta, the biggest draw is gaming, and Apple hobbled the gaming potential by relying solely on hand-tracking (which simply doesn't work for the majority of popular VR games). Apple also seemed to focus on content consumption as the main focus for AVP, except most people already own a TV, and the AVP offers little obvious benefit to just watching TV. Immersive experiences are a novelty that wears off fast. Watching content on a big virtual screen is a novelty that wears off fast. I can do both with my Quest headset, and I rarely do because I ultimately would rather just watch the TV the vast majority of the time because it's faster, easier, more comfortable, and doesn't seal me off from the outside world.

Social factors are a big issue. You can't just use an AVP anytime/anyplace. For content consumption, a family isn't going to sit together with AVPs on their heads watching a movie together. It's a very isolating technology, and Apple's only "solution" for that was projecting creepy eyeballs on the exterior screen.

Price is really the least important problem to solve. A cheap VR headset with all the same issues above still ends up in the same place at the end.
 
The fact that AVP is a total failure comes as no surprise to me. To be a sucess, there are a lot of things wrong with VR as a whole that Apple needed to solve, and they pretended that none of those things mattered.


To state that the AVP is a total failure is such an empty comment unless you can actually define what constitutes success or failure here, and you somehow have some unique knowledge of the timeframe that Apple plans to continue to commit to this sector and what their roadmap for future products and associated technologies might be.


I don't know how long is fair to give Apple to make this into a more accessible, compelling and mass-market product, but it is a certainly a lot longer than the 6+ months this first iteration has been on sale.
 
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To state that the AVP is a total failure is such an empty comment unless you can actually define what constitutes success or failure here, and you somehow have some unique knowledge of the timeframe that Apple plans to continue to commit to this sector and what their roadmap for future products and associated technologies might be.


I don't know how long is fair to give Apple to make this into a more accessible, compelling and mass-market product, but it is a certainly a lot longer than the 6+ months this first iteration has been on sale.

Let's look at the iPhone. What made it a success? Mobile phones already existed, and the general public had a very active interest in mobile phones. The iPhone was desirable because Apple made an all-new form factor for the mobile phone, with an all-new way of using it, that offered obvious benefits over the existing products on the market.

With the AVP, VR headsets already exist. They already do essentially the same thing that AVP does. The form factor is essentially the same. In fact, in some ways, the AVP is more limited in functionality than competing headsets. Apple has barely moved the needle. Whatever they try to do in the future is irrelevant to the AVP, because it has contributed so little to whatever may or may not be a sucess in the future.
 
Let's look at the iPhone. What made it a success? Mobile phones already existed, and the general public had a very active interest in mobile phones. The iPhone was desirable because Apple made an all-new form factor for the mobile phone, with an all-new way of using it, that offered obvious benefits over the existing products on the market.

With the AVP, VR headsets already exist. They already do essentially the same thing that AVP does. The form factor is essentially the same. In fact, in some ways, the AVP is more limited in functionality than competing headsets. Apple has barely moved the needle. Whatever they try to do in the future is irrelevant to the AVP, because it has contributed so little to whatever may or may not be a sucess in the future.

I don't think the iPhone is a good reference point here as it was indeed, as you state, a ground breaking product that did not have direct competition at launch. Probably better examples would be the iPod and the Apple Watch which were in no way the first to market for what they did, like the AVP.

So why did both those products become so ubiquitous and blow away all competition? Well with the iPod it was a combination of compelling industrial design, decent and usable software (certainly relative to their competitors) great marketing and relentless iteration to hone the product to suit the required user cases of the market.

The watch was a harder sell in many ways as it was initially totally dependant on the phone which many people had gotten into the habit of using to find out the time anyway - and telling the time was basically the most essential purpose of the watch. Even the marketing was not right at the beginning as they struggled to find an angle for it, pitching it as a high-fashion accessory before in time settling it on being a fitness orientated thing. But still there was compelling industrial design, decent and usable software (relative to competitors) and relentless iteration to hone the product.

So transpose this to the AVP. The industrial design is not right yet as it's too heavy but we know there will be relentless iteration that will improve the wearability of it - the ultimate aim is a glasses product after all. There's good software and distinct experiences that sets it aside from other AR/VR products and I have no doubt marketing will find the best position to take to best sell its worth to consumers.

The one thing that does separate the AVP from the watch and the iPod is of course price, but we can be sure there will be cheaper versions to come and gradually as they iterate, make the product more wearable for longer periods, provide more content and other reasons to use it and make it more affordable and thus more mass market, so we might eventually see what the ultimate end goal looks like.

Now that end result might still be too compromised for some, or not serve a useful purpose for others, or might still be too expensive for many - if that comes to pass then sure, you can label the whole project a flop. But this is a long road to go down before we get to any sort of realistic point when someone can state whether it's a success or a failure. To call it a failure so after just 6 months of commercial availability is crass and does not even start to take into account the technologies developed for the AVP that will filter down into other Apple products - much as F1 benefits car manufacturers as a technical R&D medium as much as simply a competitive sport.
 
This was predicted to flop.

Tim Apple tried to make it another money-making exercise with the ridiculous pricing of not only the device, but also its accessories.


US$350 (excl. tax) for a battery or Travel case or light seal....treating people like fools.

Jobs would never have put this to market in 2024 if ever.

It needed to be ready for a regular glasses form factor, not an over-sized, clunky & silly looking headset.

AR's biggest selling points are for interacting with the real world whilst on the move & this device was never practical enough to be worn in public.

If 3D glasses for home theater movies (as a devise to be worn only at home) never caught on (despite the many attempts) - due to their cumbersome/intrusive design - then the Vision Pro had no hope.
 
I'm always fascinated how people who did not know Steve Jobs, were not close to anyone who had insight into the internal workings of Steve Jobs and know nothing of the decision making processes that Steve Jobs undertook during his professional life can make statements with such utter assuredness about what he would definitely do or not do 13 years after his death about a product he never encountered or likely even imagined.
 
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I'm always fascinated how people who did not know Steve Jobs, were not close to anyone who had insight into the internal workings of Steve Jobs and know nothing of the decision making processes that Steve Jobs undertook during his professional life can make statements with such utter assuredness about what he would definitely do or not do 13 years after his death about a product he never encountered or likely even imagined.
I’m just glad macrumors wasn’t around during the Newton. Would have been unbearable.
 
I'm always fascinated how people who did not know Steve Jobs, were not close to anyone who had insight into the internal workings of Steve Jobs and know nothing of the decision making processes that Steve Jobs undertook during his professional life can make statements with such utter assuredness about what he would definitely do or not do 13 years after his death about a product he never encountered or likely even imagined.
Yeah Steve Jobs likely never envisioned this product, that's exactly the problem 😜
 
I'm always fascinated how people who did not know Steve Jobs, were not close to anyone who had insight into the internal workings of Steve Jobs and know nothing of the decision making processes that Steve Jobs undertook during his professional life can make statements with such utter assuredness about what he would definitely do or not do 13 years after his death about a product he never encountered or likely even imagined.
He did speak once about "headphone for video."
Link
I mean, he's saying, "there's no such thing," but I think he's wishing there was -- so he definitely conceptualized it.

And I think early forms of VR devices were already around when he was still alive.

So while we can't definitively say what he would or wouldn't have done, I think it highly likely that he would have been very much interested in the VR/AR field.
 
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