Kroger Begins Accepting Apple Pay at All Ralphs Grocery Stores in California

[1885507]

If retail shopping data is more valuable to the company than your patronage, it tells you who the real customers are.

Meanwhile, I continually enter "Lack of  Pay makes me shop here less and less" as my single-largest complaint on every survey I receive from any company.

 

[bradl]

When is this going to happen at @HomeDepot and @Lowes?

Don’t forget Walmart

It won't.

BL.

 

[msackey]

Yes. It comes down to liability. With the new standard in place for Chip+PIN, if any case of fraud happens and the merchant has not updated to using Chip+PIN, the liability and responsibility for the fraud lies with the merchant (the businessowner). If the fraud occurs and the merchant is using Chip+PIN, then the liability and responsibility for the fraud lies with the bank.

That is the incentive for merchants to move to Chip+PIN or NFC; those that done are on thin ice. I had fraud committed against my bank account from someone who created a fake card with my numbers. The perp went on a shopping spree in Simi Valley, CA, while I lived in Las Vegas. $9000 worth of purchases later, and 3 restaurants and Staples were all responsible for the fraud committed against them because they allowed the swipe of the card to occur without any verification of if the person swiping the card is the named user of the card.

Chip+PIN eliminates that problem and pushes the liability from one entity to another.

BL.

Chip + PIN does eliminate that issue to some extent. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that Chip + PIN is much used in the US. Chip without PIN is used. I have never seen Chip + Pin used stateside, I don't think.

 

[bradl]

Chip + PIN does eliminate that issue to some extent. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that Chip + PIN is much used in the US. Chip without PIN is used. I have never seen Chip + Pin used stateside, I don't think.

It's used everywhere here. You have to provide the pin if you are using Chip. It's a form of 2FA: The card is what you have; the PIN is what you know. If it is on a major credit card, and not a Debit/ATM card with the processor's logo, you might be able to run it as credit and use the billing address' postal code, but you can't use the Chip just by itself.

BL.

 

[msackey]

It's used everywhere here. You have to provide the pin if you are using Chip. It's a form of 2FA: The card is what you have; the PIN is what you know. If it is on a major credit card, and not a Debit/ATM card with the processor's logo, you might be able to run it as credit and use the billing address' postal code, but you can't use the Chip just by itself.

BL.

Are you talking about Debit cards? With credit cards, I've used the chip, but never have had to enter a PIN in the US.

Per Bankrate.com, https://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit-cards/chip-and-pin-credit-cards/

Most credit cards with chip technology issued in the U.S. are considered “chip and signature” cards. This type of credit card comes with the added fraud protection of chip technology, yet you’ll be asked to provide a signature instead of a PIN when you use your card for purchases.

Some credit card issuers offer PIN capacity as well, meaning you can add a PIN to your card that doesn’t already have one. But if you want this added layer of protection, it’s up to you to call your card issuer to inquire.

 

[bradl]

Are you talking about Debit cards? With credit cards, I've used the chip, but never have had to enter a PIN in the US.

Per Bankrate.com, https://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit-cards/chip-and-pin-credit-cards/

Like I said. With Debit/ATM cards, Chip+PIN is required, unless you cancel out of it and use it as a credit card.

With credit cards with CHIP, if the bank is US based, you have to provide the ZIP/postal code relative to the cardmember listed on the card. If the card is from overseas, that is a different story. PCI standards in the US dictate what happens with US-based cards (full disclosure: I worked for a company that provisions the CC terminals).

I had a friend of mine who visited from Australia with a VISA credit card have to set up a PIN for their card to be able to use Chip+PIN here in the US.

BL.

 

[msackey]

Like I said. With Debit/ATM cards, Chip+PIN is required, unless you cancel out of it and use it as a credit card.

With credit cards with CHIP, if the bank is US based, you have to provide the ZIP/postal code relative to the cardmember listed on the card. If the card is from overseas, that is a different story. PCI standards in the US dictate what happens with US-based cards (full disclosure: I worked for a company that provisions the CC terminals).

I had a friend of mine who visited from Australia with a VISA credit card have to set up a PIN for their card to be able to use Chip+PIN here in the US.

BL.

Got it. With the threads it's hard to keep track of if it's debit or credit cards we're talking about.

Can't say I've had to necessarily provide ZIP at pay counter for US credit cards used in US; yes at gas stations and perhaps online, but never have I had to at grocery sores or anywhere else including bakeries, bookstores, etc. *shrug*

 

[lartola]

Chip + PIN does eliminate that issue to some extent. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that Chip + PIN is much used in the US. Chip without PIN is used. I have never seen Chip + Pin used stateside, I don't think.

it is used in the US for debit cards, just not for credit cards.

 

[lartola]

Like I said. With Debit/ATM cards, Chip+PIN is required, unless you cancel out of it and use it as a credit card.

With credit cards with CHIP, if the bank is US based, you have to provide the ZIP/postal code relative to the cardmember listed on the card. If the card is from overseas, that is a different story. PCI standards in the US dictate what happens with US-based cards (full disclosure: I worked for a company that provisions the CC terminals).

I had a friend of mine who visited from Australia with a VISA credit card have to set up a PIN for their card to be able to use Chip+PIN here in the US.

BL.

Which makes me wonder: How do they handle non-US credit cards at US sit down restaurants?. The requirement to authorize with PIN on non-US credit cards must make their life really difficult, since it precludes processing the payment away from the owner of the card and they lack the equipment necessary to process the payment at the table.

 

[bradl]

Which makes me wonder: How do they handle non-US credit cards at US sit down restaurants?. The requirement to authorize with PIN on non-US credit cards must make their life really difficult, since it precludes processing the payment away from the owner of the card and they lack the equipment necessary to process the payment at the table.

Most restaurants - in particular, chain restaurants (Outback Steakhouse, Olive Garden, etc. etc.) now have terminals sitting on each table, so the customer can check out and pay at their leisure instead of waiting for the server to come and take the card to process the payment. However, those terminals at the tables are NFC as well, so one can Apple Pay/Samsung Pay/Google Pay directly from that, or tap the card.

I'm not sure at other restaurants.

BL.

 

[lartola]

Most restaurants - in particular, chain restaurants (Outback Steakhouse, Olive Garden, etc. etc.) now have terminals sitting on each table, so the customer can check out and pay at their leisure instead of waiting for the server to come and take the card to process the payment. However, those terminals at the tables are NFC as well, so one can Apple Pay/Samsung Pay/Google Pay directly from that, or tap the card.

I'm not sure at other restaurants.

BL.

yeah, some restaurants such as outback, Chili’s or olive garden have those, but the majority still don’t have any way to pay at the table, including places such as Capital Grille, Ruth Chris or anything operated by Landry’s group; they still MUST come and take your card away. Same at some other places such as Hooters or iHop, who have apps, but only for take out and delivery orders. Paying at the table is still far from being the norm in the US, as opposed to other countries.

 

[tmiw]

Like I said. With Debit/ATM cards, Chip+PIN is required, unless you cancel out of it and use it as a credit card.

I wouldn't really call it "required" if you can still cancel out of the PIN prompt...

Which makes me wonder: How do they handle non-US credit cards at US sit down restaurants?. The requirement to authorize with PIN on non-US credit cards must make their life really difficult, since it precludes processing the payment away from the owner of the card and they lack the equipment necessary to process the payment at the table.

These days, many/most smaller businesses (including most restaurants) use terminals that don't support PIN at all, so they'll behave just like US issued cards (e.g. needing signature).

 

[CarlJ]

Finally!!! They can finally take down the “No Apple Pay” signs at the registers!

Yep! I found myself in Ralphs a few times in recent weeks, and was surprised by the "NO APPLE PAY" stickers on all the POS terminals. Had to ask an employee if they were having technical difficulties or something. Had to take out a physical card for the first time in months. This makes me more likely to go back now.

 

[Alan Wynn]

This is what I tell retailers when I get the opportunity to ( and I make that opportunity happen!) if they don’t take Apple Pay. It costs 0.15 percent for you to take it. What is it going to cost you when you lose me for not taking it?
I believe that finally even the dense ones are starting to get the message.

It does not cost the retailer anything. The charge is paid by the card issuer, not the retailer.

 

[echopulse]

Only a few are left, and according to Wiki, they are in the Phoenix area. Kroger is the parent company, so they'll use different names in their various regions. Kroger = Smith's in Las Vegas and SoCal, Foods Co. in Norcal, Fred Meyer in PNW.

BL.

Wikipedia says there are 123 locations.

 

[echopulse]

They said they would eventually do this.

Hope they bring it all Kroger chains like King Soopers.

Where did they say they would do this?

That said, King Soopers is also adding it per a twitter post from AppleSophy. Hope Harris Teeter comes soon.

 

[Tagbert]

yeah, some restaurants such as outback, Chili’s or olive garden have those, but the majority still don’t have any way to pay at the table, including places such as Capital Grille, Ruth Chris or anything operated by Landry’s group; they still MUST come and take your card away. Same at some other places such as Hooters or iHop, who have apps, but only for take out and delivery orders. Paying at the table is still far from being the norm in the US, as opposed to other countries.

In most of those places, if you don’t pay at the table you can pay at the cash register where they would have the payment terminal.

 

[tmiw]

It does not cost the retailer anything. The charge is paid by the card issuer, not the retailer.

There are instances where contactless could cost the merchant more compared to inserting, but (a) that's not something inherent with Apple Pay and (b) that's mainly with debit cards.

 

[bradl]

Wikipedia says there are 123 locations.

As stated before, That same Wiki states that they are only in Arizona (primarily in the Phoenix area), and marketed under different names both in and out of Arizona. Because Kroger is the parent company, and the other stores Kroger has are more known in the markets they are in, they are not going to change the names of those stores. That's why the Kroger/Fry's in Vegas is still called Smith's (also in California). In NorCal, they are marketed as Foods Co. In the PNW, you have Fred Meyer. In Nebraska, they are Baker's. All because the parent company (Kroger) lists the stores that they own, and Fry's is one of them.

BL.

 

[black_knight]

Only a few are left, and according to Wiki, they are in the Phoenix area. Kroger is the parent company, so they'll use different names in their various regions. Kroger = Smith's in Las Vegas and SoCal, Foods Co. in Norcal, Fred Meyer in PNW.

BL.

Uhhh, there are more than just a “few” here in Phoenix, dude. It seems as though they’re on almost every street corner.

 

[BuffaloTF]

Are you talking about Debit cards? With credit cards, I've used the chip, but never have had to enter a PIN in the US.

Per Bankrate.com, https://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit-cards/chip-and-pin-credit-cards/

Signature requirements all ended in 2018. There was never a mechanism to verify the signature, it was an empty verification point. Some receipts still print with the line, and most people working the register just don't know any better. The "do not remove card" portion of the chip is the verification, it's getting a one-time-only authorization code unique to that transaction. Even PIN numbers aren't required, that one is merchant discretion, and often imposed on a dollar threshold.

 

[msackey]

Signature requirements all ended in 2018. There was never a mechanism to verify the signature, it was an empty verification point. Some receipts still print with the line, and most people working the register just don't know any better. The "do not remove card" portion of the chip is the verification, it's getting a one-time-only authorization code unique to that transaction. Even PIN numbers aren't required, that one is merchant discretion, and often imposed on a dollar threshold.

Indeed, there was never a mechanism (other than human intervention) to verify the signature. Whenever I had to sign, I just made a swiggle line and it always went through. I knew they were not verifying.

Good to know signature requirements ended in 2018. Why the US market does not require PIN every time is beyond my understanding. Why is the US market so resistant to requiring a) that all cards be either chip or contactless, and b) PIN or some other verification required.

 

[usmaak]

Indeed, there was never a mechanism (other than human intervention) to verify the signature. Whenever I had to sign, I just made a swiggle line and it always went through. I knew they were not verifying.

Good to know signature requirements ended in 2018. Why the US market does not require PIN every time is beyond my understanding. Why is the US market so resistant to requiring a) that all cards be either chip or contactless, and b) PIN or some other verification required.

When I sign, I just draw a smiley face. I have never seen a cashier actually even look at a signature.

 

[WilliApple]

Where did they say they would do this?

That said, King Soopers is also adding it per a twitter post from AppleSophy. Hope Harris Teeter comes soon.

I suggested Apple Pay on Twitter and and they said they would let their team know.

 

[echopulse]

Indeed, there was never a mechanism (other than human intervention) to verify the signature. Whenever I had to sign, I just made a swiggle line and it always went through. I knew they were not verifying.

Good to know signature requirements ended in 2018. Why the US market does not require PIN every time is beyond my understanding. Why is the US market so resistant to requiring a) that all cards be either chip or contactless, and b) PIN or some other verification required.

The cards are all chip now. Just not chip and pin. Some banks decided that Americans were too stupid to remember a pin code for our credit cards. Yet debit cards all have pins, and there isn't a major problem remembering those.

There is another possible reason stores are not enabling contactless. Some retailers have customized software that does not recognize contactless. I know, I have worked on POS systems. If they are old systems, they may need to be totally replaced, and that does cost money.

Ralphs and King Soopers are enabling NFC this week. I really Want Harris Teeter and Fred Meyers next. Here is a list of the number of stores for each banner under Kroger. https://www.scrapehero.com/kroger-store-locations/