Laptops Are Boring

[a.phoenicis]

How much RAM and storage did you buy? Just curious.

16/512. This machine replaces a 2017 MBP that was too hot, too heavy, and too hungry.

 

[AlumaMac]

I’ll one up you OP. I have a 2021 12" IPP and a 2022 16" MBP and I find them both boring.

 

[MajorFubar]

TLDR you prefer iPads to laptops.
You're not on your own.
I too was excited about iPads.
Then one day you find out you need to do something ridiculously basic outside of the iPad's comfort zone, like, I dunno, format an attached storage device, like we could on a Commodore PET.
And you end up reaching for the boring yet utterly dependable laptop.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

Say what you will about iPadOS, it still feels and looks better than MacOS, which again, is just refreshes of decades old design.

Except of course

• Can't install whatever you wanted
• Can't control multiple devices from one keyboard and mouse. Only macOS can do that
• Can't have multiple user accounts on a single iPad. Only Macs can do that
• Window management is crap on iPadOS and the OS is terrible for big screens (Yes I know about the "desktop mode" coming to iPadOS 16 and honestly...it looks lame. Samsung DeX is a better desktop mode than this.) Why the windows don't have the traffic light buttons is beyond me
• There's no pro apps on iPadOS
• The mouse cursor on iPadOS is designed for touch so some clicks require multiple presses to simulate a finger
• A lot of UI elements on iPadOS are not as great since they had to be designed for touch in mind
• The file browser on iPadOS is junk, even with the iPadOS 16 revision it's still worse than Finder
• You are restricted to only Webkit as your web browser engine

As a tablet, iPadOS is great. As a general OS, it's absolutely awful. I'd rather use Android over this, because at least Android has a desktop mode for the tablets over iPadOS. There's a reason a lot of people are begging Apple to let them dualboot macOS onto the M1 iPads.

 

[AlumaMac]

Oh boy @Spaceboi Scaphandre, the MR iPad cult will not be amused. 😁

 

[MajorFubar]

The M2 iPad will be boring. It'll be the same old big iPod Touch with added great artistic drawing/pencil ability that's been around a few years now. To me that's super boring. I can't use it for hardly anything I want to. My iPad Pro spends more time playing podcasts than anything else. My 16" M1 Max MBP is completely unboring and lets me fully unleash my creativity on all the music and production apps and VSTs and also play a load of Steam games or do content consumption, just plugs straight in my TV, can run more monitors and loads the iPad can't do. Performance-wise the M1 Max will destroy it too.

To me a computer's "interest" is defined by what it allows me to do and by that standard, apart from the pencil's abilities, the iPad is super boring compared to any Mac (or decent PC).

The idea a very limited tablet running iPadOS, has far fewer peripheral options and very limited proper pro software ability is more exciting that a computer you can use for so much more and has a massively wider options list for peripherals and software is laughable.

I couldn't have worded this better. Also hats off to your avatar and the gentle nod to the UK's Acorn Computers Ltd, inventors of the Acorn RISC Machine (ARM).

 

[iPadified]

Oh boy @Spaceboi Scaphandre, the MR iPad cult will not be amused. 😁

But the Mac cult will?

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

Oh boy @Spaceboi Scaphandre, the MR iPad cult will not be amused. 😁

Oh believe me I've ruffled feathers before. The Mac Pro cult since I used to be a Mac hater and call their overpriced joke the "Meme Pro," the StudiNo Display cult, the iPhone cult for demanding the headphone jack back and being pro-sideloading, the Nintendo cult for having a Steam Deck, the Playstation cult for their precious exclusives getting PC ports, the Linux and Android cult just for owning a Macbook, the cryptocult for calling out their playmoney scam, and especially the Stadia cult. I have NO allies and I love it.

 

[iPadified]

Except of course

• Can't install whatever you wanted

You cannot do that with MacOS either. Take SOLIDWORKS for example and lots of other PRO software. Actually Windows is much better when it comes to software than Mac ever will be.

• Can't control multiple devices from one keyboard and mouse. Only macOS can do that

Multiple computers? Talk about a edge case. I use it sometime for windows machines.

• Can't have multiple user accounts on a single iPad. Only Macs can do that

When was the last time you shared you Mac or your iPhone (!)?

• Window management is crap on iPadOS and the OS is terrible for big screens (Yes I know about the "desktop mode" coming to iPadOS 16 and honestly...it looks lame. Samsung DeX is a better desktop mode than this.) Why the windows don't have the traffic light buttons is beyond me

iPad screen size is from 8-13 inch. Barely worth having windows in. We see here it goes with iPadOS16+ and hopefully larger iPads

• There's no pro apps on iPadOS

Fair point, but iPadOS for memory hungry apps was introduced this summer and is still in beta. MacOS was introduced decades ago and still cannot run the Windows specific Pro apps natively. I do wonder why?

• The mouse cursor on iPadOS is designed for touch so some clicks require multiple presses to simulate a finger

Of course, iPad is touch first are you surprised?

• A lot of UI elements on iPadOS are not as great since they had to be designed for touch in mind

Of course, iPad is touch first are you surprised?

• The file browser on iPadOS is junk, even with the iPadOS 16 revision it's still worse than Finder

Strange Finder and Files do the same thing for me. But then, I use apps and don’t hang around in the file systems longer than needed which is <<1% of my time.

• You are restricted to only Webkit as your web browser engine

As a tablet, iPadOS is great. As a general OS, it's absolutely awful. I'd rather use Android over this, because at least Android has a desktop mode for the tablets over iPadOS. There's a reason a lot of people are begging Apple to let them dualboot macOS onto the M1 iPads.

As you like the iPad to boot with MacOS, I can only conclude that OP was right - laptops as devices are boring while iPads are not.

Philosophical question: is an iPad device with a keyboard and trackpad and running MacOS a Mac or an iPad?

Before being called a iPad cultist: I use Mac more then iPad but need both to do my work because each have distinct advantages. Dual booting one device would be far too slow. I also need windows because of specific software.

 

[cnnyy20p]

That’s why people beg Apple to be more serious with the iPad. In the end they are a lower class product than Mac.

 

[kaufeenx]

No, I beg to differ.

Rather than raging at you, or suggesting that you duck the (inevitable) oncoming online onslaught, why not admit - or concede - or allow - that there is a perfectly legitimate market for both, namely, that which is boring and that which dares to innovate?

It doesn't have to be one or the other; one can have both, as they each appeal to different demographics, people, markets and needs.

Besides, "boring" is not the worst crime one can commit when one is a vast commerical enterprise straddling continents.

These days, Apple is no longer a niche - and aesthetically stunning - company that designs astounding computers which are a formidable fusion of form and function. Instead, Apple is a vast - immensely powerful company (bigger, and richer than most countries on the planet) - that derives most of its income from other areas (iPhones, Apps, etc etc) and can afford to have its computing arm as a charming loss leader for reasons of optics and nostalgia.

Besides, not all of us are "techbros" and not all of us are addicted to novelty, and what is new and breath-taking; I'm what could be described as "une femme d'une certain âge", and I loathed the iPad, above all, its keyboard (yes, I had a few and gave them away to my brothers).

Now, I write a lot, and, as I was socialised on (heh, yes) manual type-writers, I like the feel of solid keys beneath my questing fingers, and loathe, abominate, detest, and utterly hate glass keyboards. In fact, I have always seen the iPad as something for those who consumed content, whereas serious keyboards are necessary for those who generate content (as in the sort of content that comes complete with words, sometimes, a great many of them).

But, I do recall my awed amazement, outright astonishment (and immediate and passionate desire) when the late Mr Jobs extracted the first ever MacBook Air from an A4 envelope; now, that was something I wanted, and badly.

And I still love that design well over a decade later.

My (quite wonderful, and utterly indefatigable) 11" MBA, has, quite literally, travelled the world with me.

And yes, I was also completely bowled over by the iPod. An astonishing and utterly transformative and quite splendid device.

I see this perspective and +1 to it. I have both a iPad Pro 12.9 and MacBook Pro M1 Pro (and an older iMac 27" to boot). My MacBook Pro is purely a work machine, and quite capable of it. It does literally EVERYTHING I need from a work laptop. It allows me to have multi-screen, multi-application usage that the iPad while improving upon still doesn't do well enough. Meanwhile while I can (and have) worked from purely my iPad Pro multiple times, there is something lacking with the experience. On the otherhand, for a general computing device (web browsing, multimedia, etc) the iPad is my device of choice. Use it as a tablet, or attach the smart keyboard and it becomes a laptop replacement. I love it, and want to upgrade to the M2 version this coming year.

...and then there is my iMac. My poor, old, dusty, slow iMac. I have 4TB HD in my iMac and right now it's sole purpose is acting as a file server for my endless movie and music collections to my mix of devices in my home. I really want to ditch this device and go to a MacMini but Apple refuses to give me one with features as capable as this 5 year old beast of a machine but without the power of the Mac Studio (which would be overkill). I need something like an MacMini Pro but without it, I fear that in the very near future if they don't release something new in this space, that I might be forced to build a Windows PC to replace it. (and get the added benefit of being able to play Diablo 4 when it's released).

 

[Reggaenald]

After all, my YouTube influencer overlords tell me it’s the only way to be productive.

After I read this I was done with your thread. Nothing more of interest here.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

You cannot do that with MacOS either. Take SOLIDWORKS for example and lots of other PRO software. Actually Windows is much better when it comes to software than Mac ever will be.

By "install what you want" I mean the fact it functions without an app store. I can just find an app online and just install it. On iPadOS unless you jailbreak you are restricted to the god awful Apple App Store and whatever Apple allows on it, and until the EU forces them to enable sideloading with the DMA in the coming year it's going to stay that way. So many apps are just not available on iPadOS because Apple does not allow them. VM managers, retro game and OS emulators, open source pro tools like GIMP and Audacity, and so much more because of that app store's draconian rules and awful app review process.

Multiple computers? Talk about a edge case. I use it sometime for windows machines.

Well a lot of creative professionals use multiple computers. In my job in network environments we definitely use a lot of computers and use a KVM to control them. Just the ability to control an iPad from my Mac is big.

When was the last time you shared you Mac or your iPhone (!)?

Literally today as my 6 year old nephews are visiting. My relatives also use a single Mac Mini for their office computer and have multiple user accounts on it. You really thought you had a "got ya" with this didn't you?

iPad screen size is from 8-13 inch. Barely worth having windows in. We see here it goes with iPadOS16+ and hopefully larger iPads

The MacBook Air and the touchbar MemeBook Pro are13 inch. The 2015 MemeBook was 12 inch, and the iPad can be plugged into a monitor.

Fair point, but iPadOS for memory hungry apps was introduced this summer and is still in beta. MacOS was introduced decades ago and still cannot run the Windows specific Pro apps natively. I do wonder why?

The majority of Windows specific pro apps are available on macOS, with the exception of Sony Vegas. There's numerous options on macOS, including industry standard exclusive ones like Logic Pro and Mainstage. Even with the memory limit getting raised because of it's touch focused UI a lot of pro apps would have to have their interfaces reworked for touch to the point they would control worse than on a Mac. Not even Apple's own apps are available. Like, is there any reason Final Cut Pro cannot be on iPadOS but iMovie can? Or any reason a smaller version of Logic Pro can't be on iPadOS but Garage Band can? Mainstage would be perfect on iPad to give DJs an extra interface, but it's not available.

Of course, iPad is touch first are you surprised?

When they say iPadOS looks and feels better than macOS, I'm gonna point out how no, the touch controls a lot of times does not make it feel better than macOS.

Of course, iPad is touch first are you surprised?

When they say iPadOS looks and feels better than macOS, I'm gonna point out how no, the touch controls a lot of times does not make it feel better than macOS...again

Strange Finder and Files do the same thing for me. But then, I use apps and don’t hang around in the file systems longer than needed which is <<1% of my time.

Try using Google Drive and other cloud solutions on an iPad and you'll see how bad it is. Here's an example:

As you like the iPad to boot with MacOS, I can only conclude that OP was right - laptops as devices are boring while iPads are not.

They say as the Mac line has been outselling the iPad consistently for the past year and a half.

Philosophical question: is an iPad device with a keyboard and trackpad and running MacOS a Mac or an iPad?

Is a Windows laptop running macOS a Mac or a Windows laptop? Is a PC running an Android emulator an Android or a PC? Is an Android phone running desktop mode a Linux workstation or an Android phone?

But to humor you...I mean...it has the guts of a Mac inside it soooooo...

Before being called a iPad cultist: I use Mac more then iPad but need both to do my work because each have distinct advantages.

Your name is literally "iPadified."

Dual booting one device would be far too slow. I also need windows because of specific software.

That's...not how dual booting works. Both OSs are not running at the same time. Dual boot just means you install the other OS and you can select which one you want to load on bootup. So if you needed Windows for specific software and you were running a Linux machine, you could just dualboot Windows. The Steam Deck lets you dualboot Windows on it to run any Windows games that will not run on Linux whatsoever due to anticheat reasons for this reason.

Sugarcoat it all you want, dislike me if you want, but iPadOS is still crap and I will keep calling it crap when Apple keeps insisting on making it a laptop replacement, especially now that it has the M1 chip in it when it can't even take full advantage of it. Has the guts of a Mac, but does less than a Mac, and is more expensive than a Mac.

So to say iPadOS looks and feels better than macOS with all this in mind, I'm gonna laugh. If you like touch screens, more power to you. But from a functional and practical standpoint, iPadOS just increases the cognitive load and hurts my feelings.

 

[ian87w]

A laptop is a screen attached to a keyboard. There's really no way around it. Microsoft tried with Surface Pro, but in the end, it's still a screen attached to a keyboard. They become a commodity.

A laptop can still be exciting for me if it gets lighter and cooler (longer battery life, no fan). My HP Pavilion Aero 13 got the first, while Apple Silicon MacBook Air got the later. Here's hoping for something that got both of those.

 

[Zest28]

That’s why people beg Apple to be more serious with the iPad. In the end they are a lower class product than Mac.

I disagree. The iPad Pro is a far superior device than a laptop, because laptops only work with an external mouse. The trackpad is not very good to work on.

Touch Screen > Touchpad, any day of the week.

I just find it funny watching people use their laptops in Starbucks working with their trackpads.

I’m not even sure if I like the M2 MBA over the M1 iPad Pro to be honest. They will be fighting with eachother for the same use case (which is outdoor use / travelling). And the iPad Pro has a much better quality display and camera.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

I disagree. The iPad Pro is a far superior device than a laptop, because laptops only work with an external mouse. The trackpad is not very good to work on.

Touch Screen > Touchpad, any day of the week.

I just find it funny watching people use their laptops in Starbucks working with their trackpads.

I’m not even sure if I like the M2 MBA over the M1 iPad Pro to be honest. They will be fighting with eachother for the same use case (which is outdoor use / travelling).

Tell me you've never used a multitouch trackpad without telling me you've never used a multitouch trackpad.

 

[Zest28]

Tell me you've never used a multitouch trackpad without telling me you've never used a multitouch trackpad.

Dude, I have a 16” M1 Max MacBook Pro and I strictly use it with my Logitech mouse as working with a trackpad sucks.

External mouse > touch screen > touchpad.

Touchpad is the worst way to work on.

Besides, the iPad Pro also comes with a Touchpad and I highly doubt many people use it that much. The touchpad on the iPad Pro is only nice with Excel or something like that.

 

[progx]

Same design as 30+ years ago??? Modern laptops owe much of their design to the original PowerBooks, and those things were released as recently as 1991, which was definitely *not*....wait.....ummm.....

Dammit.

I’d say the Titanium PowerBook G4 had the biggest influence on laptop design as a whole. The first PowerBooks, especially under the Sculley era, were not exactly the marvels we saw with the G3 and G4 models.

 

[dmr727]

I’d say the Titanium PowerBook G4 had the biggest influence on laptop design as a whole. The first PowerBooks, especially under the Sculley era, were not exactly the marvels we saw with the G3 and G4 models.

The '030 was already getting a little long in the tooth, but compared to PC laptops of the day, the design was pretty revolutionary. That said, I mainly chose the original PowerBooks because they were the only ones old enough to support my joke.

 

[Cartossin]

A laptop is a tool. The best tools are essentially boring. Look at a good hammer. Pretty mundane, eh? It's a good sign when a tool matures to the point that it is boring.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

The M2 iPad will be boring. It'll be the same old big iPod Touch with added great artistic drawing/pencil ability that's been around a few years now. To me that's super boring. I can't use it for hardly anything I want to. My iPad Pro spends more time playing podcasts than anything else. My 16" M1 Max MBP is completely unboring and lets me fully unleash my creativity on all the music and production apps and VSTs and also play a load of Steam games or do content consumption, just plugs straight in my TV, can run more monitors and loads the iPad can't do. Performance-wise the M1 Max will destroy it too.

To me a computer's "interest" is defined by what it allows me to do and by that standard, apart from the pencil's abilities, the iPad is super boring compared to any Mac (or decent PC).

The idea a very limited tablet running iPadOS, has far fewer peripheral options and very limited proper pro software ability is more exciting that a computer you can use for so much more and has a massively wider options list for peripherals and software is laughable.

Agree, I have both an M1 MBA (admittedly 16/512) and a 12.9" iPad Pro 2018. The M1 MBA is used WAY more for my workflows. The iPad is basically just for note-taking and sketching at this point. If anything is boring, it is the iPad. It could be so much more.

 

[Coreymac84]

Sold my iPP 2018 12.9" for an M2 Air. With the keyboard case attached it is actually LESS portable than an Air, the trackpad is annoyingly small, the keyboard is undersized and there are no function keys. The OS is restricted and Apple is already locking out recent iPads from new OS features. Not about that life. My Pro Max phone does many of the jobs the iPad can do and is always in close proximity to me which is more convenient for use. I have a 16" M1 Pro for at home productivity, a M2 Air for portable productivity / casual use and a large phone to cover many of the other areas the iPad excels at in an even more portable form. The iPad is lost in the middle for what its focused use cases are and owners of the iPad (including myself) try to force ourselves to justify the purchase by proving to others it can do so many things. The problem is the ways it must be used to do things is cumbersome and requires additional steps. unless you're a digital artist or love writing notes instead of typing them, I can't think of any situation that it excels over my other devices.

 

[iPadified]

By "install what you want" I mean the fact it functions without an app store. I can just find an app online and just install it. On iPadOS unless you jailbreak you are restricted to the god awful Apple App Store and whatever Apple allows on it, and until the EU forces them to enable sideloading with the DMA in the coming year it's going to stay that way. So many apps are just not available on iPadOS because Apple does not allow them. VM managers, retro game and OS emulators, open source pro tools like GIMP and Audacity, and so much more because of that app store's draconian rules and awful app review process.



Well a lot of creative professionals use multiple computers. In my job in network environments we definitely use a lot of computers and use a KVM to control them. Just the ability to control an iPad from my Mac is big.



Literally today as my 6 year old nephews are visiting. My relatives also use a single Mac Mini for their office computer and have multiple user accounts on it. You really thought you had a "got ya" with this didn't you?



The MacBook Air and the touchbar MemeBook Pro are13 inch. The 2015 MemeBook was 12 inch, and the iPad can be plugged into a monitor.



The majority of Windows specific pro apps are available on macOS, with the exception of Sony Vegas. There's numerous options on macOS, including industry standard exclusive ones like Logic Pro and Mainstage. Even with the memory limit getting raised because of it's touch focused UI a lot of pro apps would have to have their interfaces reworked for touch to the point they would control worse than on a Mac. Not even Apple's own apps are available. Like, is there any reason Final Cut Pro cannot be on iPadOS but iMovie can? Or any reason a smaller version of Logic Pro can't be on iPadOS but Garage Band can? Mainstage would be perfect on iPad to give DJs an extra interface, but it's not available.



When they say iPadOS looks and feels better than macOS, I'm gonna point out how no, the touch controls a lot of times does not make it feel better than macOS.



When they say iPadOS looks and feels better than macOS, I'm gonna point out how no, the touch controls a lot of times does not make it feel better than macOS...again



Try using Google Drive and other cloud solutions on an iPad and you'll see how bad it is. Here's an example:

They say as the Mac line has been outselling the iPad consistently for the past year and a half.



Is a Windows laptop running macOS a Mac or a Windows laptop? Is a PC running an Android emulator an Android or a PC? Is an Android phone running desktop mode a Linux workstation or an Android phone?

But to humor you...I mean...it has the guts of a Mac inside it soooooo...



Your name is literally "iPadified."



That's...not how dual booting works. Both OSs are not running at the same time. Dual boot just means you install the other OS and you can select which one you want to load on bootup. So if you needed Windows for specific software and you were running a Linux machine, you could just dualboot Windows. The Steam Deck lets you dualboot Windows on it to run any Windows games that will not run on Linux whatsoever due to anticheat reasons for this reason.

Sugarcoat it all you want, dislike me if you want, but iPadOS is still crap and I will keep calling it crap when Apple keeps insisting on making it a laptop replacement, especially now that it has the M1 chip in it when it can't even take full advantage of it. Has the guts of a Mac, but does less than a Mac, and is more expensive than a Mac.

So to say iPadOS looks and feels better than macOS with all this in mind, I'm gonna laugh. If you like touch screens, more power to you. But from a functional and practical standpoint, iPadOS just increases the cognitive load and hurts my feelings.

Oh I do not dislike you but your arguments are not well founded at least the validity can be discussed and that is what I am doing.

Software in Engineering, science and instrument control is very often Win only. Your examples are what I would call mainstream Pro software (along with office) that exist on MacOS as well but switch from that and it is impossible to use a Mac only. Hence MacOS is not so generic as you think it is. Even in a related field to video editing like 3D modelling and rendering, corresponding MacOS apps are behind if they even exists.

I know how dual boot works and it means that you need to go through a boot routine to access the other OS. MacOS on iPad would be great but I would not dual boot. Too slow. Better to buy another computer/iPad especially if you need two different OS at the same time.

If you look into the history of AX chips, it turns out that iPad Pro does not have Mac hardware, it is the other way around. M1 was built on A12Z which is a iPad chip. To be really realistic, Mac and iPads now uses expanded iPhone chips.

I not sure the Mac line sells more machines than iPads. The Mac has slightly higher revenue compared to iPad BUT the iPads most likely cost in general less so more iPads are actually sold compared to Mac. I would not be surprised if iPad outsold Macs by 2 to 1 but no one knows.

MacOS or iPadOS? Depends on the needs and what the user is used to. Neither is perfect and both have strengths. Coolest hardware? iPad in my opinion.

The name iPadified was chosen to irritate the Mac (Pro) crowd because they are so locked in old school computing paradigms. Dare say it works.

 

[NewUsername]

But, while there, and playing around with it, it just sorta sat there like an egg. Maybe laptop lovers have a different take, but for me it’s tough to get excited about basically another refresh of a design that’s been around for 30+ years.

I went from a 2011 MacBook Air to an M1 MacBook Air, and I too realized laptops have matured very much. Sure, the new one is a lot faster, the ports are different and the screen quality is better, but essentially that’s what has changed since then.

However, I think you could also say that about iPads and even iPhones. Sure, there has been more innovations there, but those products are also maturing and it has become more and more difficult to add truly exciting stuff for non-geeks to it.

 

[BB1970]

After I read this I was done with your thread. Nothing more of interest here.

You realize that was a joke yes?