You can get 5K with the HP/Dell screens on the nMP anyway can't you? Not sure you need the eGPU for that?
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LG UltraFine 5K Display with a 2013 Mac Pro?
- Thread starter msvadi
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Unless you use one of these
https://developer.apple.com/development-kit/external-graphics/
+
https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MMEL2ZM/A/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-to-thunderbolt-2-adapter
You'll lose about 20-30% performance of the RX 580 using the adapter, but you'll get true 5K out of a Dell UP2715K or iiyama ProLite XB2779QQS from your 2013 nMP.
Could you confirm that one can get true 5K via an eGPU (e.g. Blackmagic RX580) connected via just one TB3<->TB2 adapter? I read a lot, and even open a new thread in the present forum, but no one has had a direct experience with such a solution. I would like to buy an LG ultrafine 5K +blackmagic for my nMP (6 core/D500).
Thanks. Best,
Giampiero
That's not going to work. The adapter is immaterial. The BlackMagic eGPU doesn't put that external GPU's video back onto the Thunderbolt bus. The primary way to get that that GPU's output is the single HDMI socket on the back. That isn't going to get you 5K.
" ... HDMI 2.0 for monitoring up to 4K ..."
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicegpu/
The output there is really geared toward VR headsets , non Thunderbolt displays, and 4K reference monitors. The device is highly skewed to primarily being a "compute" GPU; not one primarily aimed at display duties.
An external GPU with multiple DisplayPort outputs would allow 5K to 'normal' 5K monitors, but also still not aligned with the LG Thunderbolt docking Display ( that Apple probably pre-scripted the stats for).
On a Thunderbolt bus the flow direction of the DisplayPort traffic is primarily unidirectional out from the computer "source" to the monitor "sinks". DisplayPort itself is unidirectionally oriented and that just "bleeds" into Thunderbolt carrying the traffic.
One of the root cause issues it that the LG 5K Ultrafine has one and only one input. That restriction means the nMP ( MP 2013) can't drive it full 5K resolution. ( can get 4K or perhaps a scaled 5K, but not native 5K. ). eGPUs don't make a difference.
I see, thanks. Thus, the current situation is that the two 5K monitor officially supported by Apple to be connected via two TB2 (Dell UP2715K and HP Z27Q) are discontinued, and the Lg Ultrafine 5K can be only used up to 4K (or perhaps up to a rescaled 2560x1440, as seems in the Apple store where I went last month). That's bad, since the nMP is still my widely preferred choice as a fast and *very silent* Mac (I tested some loaded quad i7 Mac, but the fans and the throttling were too much). I wonder if I have to go to a 4K display, as e. g. the Eizo EV3237 or others (to be individuated; it is very difficult).
Thanks. Best,
Giampiero
Thanks. Best,
Giampiero
Your nMP will be a bit louder with a 5K display attached. It's still pretty quiet, but noticeable.
Will be that because of the needed resources to deal with so many pixels (nMP, 6C, D500 here)? This means that a 4K monitor could be the right choice (in order to balance crisp pictures with quietness)?
I am currently using a good old Apple Cinema Display 27 and the Mac is super quiet.
Thanks,
gp
P.S. I've just noticed that you have a nMP/D700 with the HP 5K monitor. This should be a perfect match for me... well, if my D500 nMP will be as good as yours (I could eventually upgrade to a 12C, but the D500 will remain untouched).
The 5K displays require 2 4K streams to render each half of the panel. Due to that I would guess a 4K display would allow the Mac to idle at a lower temperature and run quieter. I'm not sure if it will be as quiet as it is with your Apple Cinema Display, or with my Apple Thunderbolt display, but it might be.
I see. However, I just called here and there in Italy and there is no trace of UP2715K nor Z27Q displays in all the stores I found in the internet (except for one HP Z27Q at *only* 4200 EUR+VAT!). Perhaps I should really go for a pumped iMac 27 5K (which I always founded to be too noisy), or looking for a 32K 4K display. Let's see. Thanks again.
@gp313 you CAN use the LG 5k with the Mac Pro at full Resolution.
Though this would still be an unofficial and rather expansiv workaround.
You would need an Apple TB2/3 adapter and an Blackmagic 580 Pro external GPU.
This eGPU is the only official eGPU with dual TB3 ports and in fact injects 2 displayport streams into the second one rather than just forwarding signals from the Mac Pro (making it having three Display outputs in total). Also the loss in performance bandwidth should be below 10 or even 5% in most cases as the 580 is not that bandwidth hungry and as you wouldn't feet the image signal back with the same cable (which is where TB3 also takes massive hits).
All you would need to get this working is a tool that enables eGPU support for your Mac Pro as TB2 does not support it officially.
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A much cheaper, though unconfirmed solution would be the use of an TB3 add-in card (available used) in a PCIe expansion box like this one from AKiTiO (I have a spare one - PM me if interested. Shipping with-in Europe.) While you would not need software hacks using this approach you would lose all usb/pcie functionality like the build-in web-cam, brightness-control, audio and USB-ports, if it works at all (only confirmed to be working with USB-C, 4k monitors till now). Some additonal information regarding such configurations can be obtained here.
Though this would still be an unofficial and rather expansiv workaround.
You would need an Apple TB2/3 adapter and an Blackmagic 580 Pro external GPU.
This eGPU is the only official eGPU with dual TB3 ports and in fact injects 2 displayport streams into the second one rather than just forwarding signals from the Mac Pro (making it having three Display outputs in total). Also the loss in performance bandwidth should be below 10 or even 5% in most cases as the 580 is not that bandwidth hungry and as you wouldn't feet the image signal back with the same cable (which is where TB3 also takes massive hits).
All you would need to get this working is a tool that enables eGPU support for your Mac Pro as TB2 does not support it officially.
——————————————
A much cheaper, though unconfirmed solution would be the use of an TB3 add-in card (available used) in a PCIe expansion box like this one from AKiTiO (I have a spare one - PM me if interested. Shipping with-in Europe.) While you would not need software hacks using this approach you would lose all usb/pcie functionality like the build-in web-cam, brightness-control, audio and USB-ports, if it works at all (only confirmed to be working with USB-C, 4k monitors till now). Some additonal information regarding such configurations can be obtained here.
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I don't understand how that's supposed to work - I was under the impression that a single TB2 port on the Mac Pro doesn't have sufficient bandwidth to feed the eGPU the data necessary to drive the 5k screen. Even though the RX580 can drive multiple 4/5K screens, the thunderbolt connection upstream is still going to be the limiting factor. That's the fundamental problem with Thunderbolt for eGPU - it can't feed an eGPU enough data to support all the display space the card in an eGPU box can drive.
Surely for that to work, the Blackmagic would need two thunderbolt inputs from the 2013 Mac Pro?
My assumption is that what you'd see is a 4k display stream, showing 2560x1440 (scaled), same as plugging any 4k display into the 2013 mac pro, that's then further scaled to the 5k panel by the eGPU.
Is what you're seeing any different fundamentally from plugging the display into the tb3->tb2 adapter, into the computer? Because that can still display a 2560x1440 (scaled) picture on the 5k display, but it's not an actual 5k display stream.
...or am I completely wrong?
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Well your somewhat right, however it's more complex than that:
A TB2 protocol incorporates one displayport 1.2 stream, which is technically limited to 4k. (~17GB/s)
However this implementation would not rely on the displayport protocol at all but rather only the PCIe signal stream which also appears to be a part of the TB2 protocol to drive the eGPU.
Simply spoken those raw signals, instructing the eGPU to feed the display do not need the same amount of bandwidth for the information. Think of it as advising somebody to do something instead of doing it yourself. You would be much less stressed out. So the Mac would advise the eGPU to do all the work to drive the display rather than doing it itself. So the construction schematics would be:
Mac Pro –> 20GB/s TB2 PCIe protocol -> eGPU -> 40GB/s TB3 dual Displayport protocol -> LG 5k
In the Computer world readable commands take up considerly more space than machine language.
So the drawn image send as the displayport signal which is "easily" readable by the monitor is like an applications source code which is "easily" readable be humans - however both take up considerably more space than the bare machine instructions which would be the commands send within the PCIe protocol and in this analogy a compiled application.
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Yeah i get that, I'm just surprised given that the nMP requires a PCI3 x16 connection to the internal GPU to drive 3 5k displays, that it can drive one on only a quarter of the lanes.
e.g. an AMD RX 560 also can drive a 5k display (or even two + another, internal 2.5k screen, like Apple's MacBook brother card) even though it's internally only an PCI x8 GPU.
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Just to avoid confusion: This I wrong. Actually it's exactly how it works.
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Probably 'This is wrong'. That's interesting, sorry for the confusion. It appears there was more to the Blackmagic eGPU that it appeared at first. This appears to be a new feature of the latest TB controllers and pragmatically enabled by having the GPU embedded into the system. ( plus some Apple OS magic sprinkled on top). It isn't normal though.
The adapter though is still pragmatically immaterial though. Downstream of the Blackmagic device it seems to negotiate an TBv3 segment between there and downstream from the eGPU. Traffic that has to span the adapter is capped.
Sorry for wake up old thread.
I can confirm trashcan late 2013 works perfectly with LG Ultrafine 5k without any workaround.
All you need is Apple Genuine Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 adapter and Apple Thunderbolt cable. Output at full 5K resolution without problem.
FYI D300/D500 are sufficient enough to drive single 5K, no need overpriced Black Magic E-GPU.
I'm not tested USB-C ports behind the monitor though, I have no TB3 devices.
I can confirm trashcan late 2013 works perfectly with LG Ultrafine 5k without any workaround.
All you need is Apple Genuine Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 adapter and Apple Thunderbolt cable. Output at full 5K resolution without problem.
FYI D300/D500 are sufficient enough to drive single 5K, no need overpriced Black Magic E-GPU.
I'm not tested USB-C ports behind the monitor though, I have no TB3 devices.
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It won't actually be running at 5K though sadly unless you have some sort of magical Mac Pro.
Well, I'm running 2560 x 1440 in HiDPI (retina), 60Hz, it's not actual 5K? Are you already trying with exact setup?
For non magical things, I'm suspect I'm loss data connection on USB-C ports behind the monitor due lack of TB2 data stream / bandwidth. But the graphical stuff are perfect IMHO.
Yeah, I tried it and the Apple Stores often have it setup like that - it makes out like it's 5K but it's in fact 4K with weird scaling going on. I couldn't cope with the added blurriness and went back to 2.5K or whatever. A shame as I thought it was a nice looking display. You'd notice it next to a true 5K.
Can you show a screen shot of the resolution to confirm 5K in Display settings? If it is only 4K that is plenty good for me since I can also use the monitor for my macbook pro 2018 to get 5K on it probably.
But...if the monitor runs 5K on the mac pro 2013, that would be fantastic!
Your GPU is rendering at 2560x1440 HiDPI (5120x2880), then down scale to 3840x2160 to transmit.
AFAIK, There is no way to tell what's the actual resolution output from the Mac.
e.g. This only tell me the Mac rendering at 7680x2160, the UI will looks like 3840x1080 HiDPI, but says nothing about the actual transmitting resolution.
That looks pretty good, Thanks.
Might be a good option if you have both a mac pro 2013 and something newer to use the monitor with.
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Is your monitor ISP or UHD?
To confirm what others are saying, you're not viewing true 5k. The trash can is able to basically show you a lower res scaled version of hi-dpi 2160x1440 utilizing only one of the DP streams. My eyes are pretty good to see the difference. Switch Res X can confirm.
Funny, the old cMP with a TB-3 add-on card can drive this display at true 5k. That trash can never experiences a victory!
Not sure if you mean all 5K displays, but my nMP is just as quiet as ever driving my Dell UP2715K
Funny, the old cMP with a TB-3 add-on card can drive this display at true 5k. That trash can never experiences a victory!
Not even I'm included trashcan in my signature lol. My main computer still supercharged cheese grater
in addition with hackintosh as bleeding edge tester, those trash can was given from workplace.That's why I'm not too worrying about my achieved resolution on those LG display.
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Use SwitchResX to view the timing information for the current resolution. It should show the active pixels 5120x2880 or 3840x2160 and the pixel clock (> 900 MHz for 5K, ~ 533 MHz for 4K).