Resolved Life balance perspective

[eyoungren]

I thought I'd throw out some opinions and see what others say.

I constantly hear about the work-life balance that is part of being an adult, being married, having kids, etc.

I don't buy it.

I'm an adult. I'm married. I have kids. I maintain my interests. I did not give them up when I became an adult. My wife knew I would not give them up and married me anyway and I did not give them up when I had kids.

And yet, balance is achieved. I have not shorted my family of any attention, I've been there when needed/asked and as necessary have put myself last for my family.

Yet I still retain and enjoy the same interests I've had since I was 10, 12 and 15.

I have willfully severed ties with a friend of more than 20 years who considered one of my interests as merely a hobby we shared and was not committed to showing up. He's called me militant, yet he has no committment to anything other than his family.

I am not saying committment to family is bad. I have a committment to my family, but that's all his life is about. That may be enough for him, but it's not enough for me.

Perhaps it's because we don't travel much or the fact that both my wife and I are generally loners that life does not intrude overmuch in our interests.

I don't know. I've had my family/life issues and they have demanded my time and attention, but I have never been so involved that my life is busy from the moment I get up to the moment I go to bed. I don't see that as a life. I see it as occupying your time so you don't have to think about anything, much less the stuff you really do not want to think about.

My wife and I have a great relationship. Like all relationships, we've had our ups and downs, but she's my friend and she knew the stuff I was in to before she married me. She doesn't deny me that. In return I've compromised and have limited my time in certain interests, but it's not the same as those out there who say they do not do "X" anymore because they got a life (i.e., marriage, kids, etc).

I just don't buy it.

I suppose if you are the person who's always running it would be an argument, but we aren't those kinds of people. Lazy Saturdays/Sundays on the coach with laptops are the norm for us.

When my kids eventually depart my house my wife and I will go right back to visiting coffee shops on a Saturday for an hour or more with her reading a book and me browsing the paper.

Maybe I'm just different?

Would be par for the course with me I guess as I've never been accused of being normal.

 

[dukebound85]

I'm not sure what you're asking here?

 

[arkitect]

I thought I'd throw out some opinions and see what others say.

I know I am going to sound flippant and a bit of a ****… but…

"Cool story, bro."

 

[AngerDanger]

I know I am going to sound flippant and a bit of a ****… but…

"Cool story, bro."

Hey, this story does get pretty cool if you read it pretending the "hobby" is actually international espionage.

I have willfully severed ties with a friend of more than 20 years who considered international espionage as merely a hobby we shared and was not committed to showing up. He's called me militant, yet he has no committment to anything other than his family.

Perhaps it's because we don't travel much or the fact that both my wife and I are generally loners that life does not intrude overmuch in our international espionage.

When my kids eventually depart my house my wife and I will go right back to visiting coffee shops on a Saturday for an hour or more with her reading a book and me browsing the paper [to see the influence of my international espionage].

 

[eyoungren]

LOL!

OK, ok! it's a joke. Fine

But I still hear people saying they cannot engage in the things they used to do because of committments. I will always find that to be an excuse since I seem to find room for both my committments and my interests.

That's okay though. The fact that my post is lightly percieved indicates to me that I have the correct perspective.

PS. No upset feelings in this post, just so everyone's aware of that.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

LOL!

OK, ok! it's a joke. Fine

But I still hear people saying they cannot engage in the things they used to do because of committments. I will always find that to be an excuse since I seem to find room for both my committments and my interests.

To some extent, that depends on your character, your job - and your interest in, commitment to that job, - your personal relationships, your interests, and what drives you.

 

[eyoungren]

To some extent, that depends on your character, your job - and your interest in, commitment to that job, - your personal relationships, your interests, and what drives you.

Exactly.

And I find that those who trot out this excuse are rarely the kind of person I share the same interests with.

It only took me 20+ years to figure out that my friend was simply using me as someone to occupy his time when his real friends were too busy for him.

Of course, the fact that I have the kind of job where literally I can do just about anything I wish as long as the work gets done may have something to do with this.

 

[arkitect]

Hey, this story does get pretty cool if you read it pretending the "hobby" is actually international espionage.

I am however left wanting to know what the hobby is though!

Come on, @eyoungren, don't leave us hanging.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Exactly.

And I find that those who trot out this excuse are rarely the kind of person I share the same interests with.

It only took me 20+ years to figure out that my friend was simply using me as someone to occupy his time when his real friends were too busy for him.

Of course, the fact that I have the kind of job where literally I can do just about anything I wish as long as the work gets done may have something to do with this.

I think that it may be something other than what you describe; I don't think that he was 'using' you, per se; you may have been using each other.

Sometimes, you grow out of people, - you tire of them, and they of you - and it doesn't matter if you bonded over common interests, or studies, or simply being young together. There comes a day when you realise that while you wish them well, you're not awfully bothered if you never laid eyes on them more than once a decade.

 

[eyoungren]

I am however left wanting to know what the hobby is though!

Come on, @eyoungren, don't leave us hanging.

Oh sure.

Roleplaying games, specifically Rolemaster. I got involved in Dungeons & Dragons when I got the basic set for my birthday in 1984. From that point on it's been a passion. Other RPGs followed and in 1989 I got into Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (AD&D) 2nd edition. I got involved in Rolemaster in 1994.

Rolemaster, specifically 2nd Edition RM, is in the same genre as AD&D but the rules are much deadlier.

But I've been involved with computers since I was 10 and online since I was 15.

Computers, technology and RPGs are what drive me.

But RPGs require a committment. It's not Scrabble or Chess every once in a while. You get together and the minimum to even do much is two hours. Most gaming sessions I'm involved in are typically 4 to 6 hours. You need at least 3 if you want to have any fun and not be rushed.

But if it's not a committment, you don't show up. And that can leave you and anyone else involved frustrated.
[doublepost=1505070793][/doublepost]

I think that it may be something other than what you describe; I don't think that he was 'using' you, per se; you may have been using each other.

Sometimes, you grow out of people, - you tire of them, and they of you - and it does't matter if you bonded over common interests, or studies, or simply being young together. There comes a day when you realise that while you wish them well, you're not awfully bothered if you never laid eyes on them more than once a decade.

Well, politically our views had diverged so you make a good point.

But up until 6 years ago we'd still have this in common (or so I thought).

But yeah, I wish him well. Unfortunately, we know many of the same people within our families so the likelihood of my seeing him at some future funeral is very good.

PS. This thread was not about him specifically, but about the excuse I often hear. I was just using him as a specific example.

 

[AngerDanger]

Exactly.

And I find that those who trot out this excuse are rarely the kind of person I share the same interests with.

…

Which excuse is being trotted out? It's expected that people have different levels of interest in things. The fact that a random person on the street doesn't care as much about tech rumors as I do isn't an excuse that they've made.

 

[jeyf]

 

[eyoungren]

Which excuse is being trotted out? It's expected that people have different levels of interest in things. The fact that a random person on the street doesn't care as much about tech rumors as I do isn't an excuse that they've made.

The excuse that family and life committments mean you cannot engage in your interests, whatever those interests may be because whatever it is you are doing occupies 24 hours of your time.

I'm not saying they have to be MY interests. I don't really care what others do or do not do. But to say that marriage and kids mean you can no longer do what you used to is not true - at least in my case.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

The excuse that family and life committments mean you cannot engage in your interests, whatever those interests may be because whatever it is you are doing occupies 24 hours of your time.

I'm not saying they have to be MY interests. I don't really care what others do or do not do. But to say that marriage and kids mean you can no longer do what you used to is not true - at least in my case.

But, - respectfully - I beg to differ.

I don't think it is an "excuse" - rather, I think that it is simply being polite, and offering a socially acceptable explanation.

Rather, I think it is about choices, and priorities.

People make choices about what is important to them, and then - eventually or immediately, as the case may be - they choose to act on those choices.

Besides, what people choose to do, and choose to prioritise may also change over time. This is because people can (sometimes) change over time, and so can their interests.

My interests - well, some of them - have changed over time.

You do what you used to do because it matters to you, and you have made choices to continue to do it.

I would argue that for some people, their "interests" filled time, perhaps helped to define them in their own minds, - not least to themselves - but, when something more compelling, or, demanding of time, or interesting (and family - or work may fall into this category) comes up, they gravitate to that.

 

[eyoungren]

But, - respectfully - I beg to differ.

I don't think it is an "excuse" - that is simply being polite, and offering a social acceptable explanation.

Rather, I think it is about choices, and priorities.

People make choices about what is important to them, and then - eventually or immediately, as the case may be - they choose to act on those choices.

Besides, what people choose to do, and choose to prioritise may also change over time. This is because people can (sometimes) change over time, and so can their interests.

My interests - well, some of them - have changed over time.

You do what you used to do because it matters to you, and you have made choices to continue to do it.

I would argue that for some people, their "interests" filled time, perhaps helped to define them in their own minds, - not least to themselves - but, when something more compelling, or, demanding of time, or interesting (and family - or work may fall into this category) comes up, they gravitate to that.

That makes sense.

I suppose I can recognize it as a legitimate reason as it applies to other people's priorities. But it still doesn't apply to me. I just object when it seems I am expected to understand that it does apply to me (because it doesn't).

 

[Scepticalscribe]

That makes sense.

I suppose I can recognize it as a legitimate reason as it applies to other people's priorities. But it still doesn't apply to me. I just object when it seems I am expected to understand that it does apply to me (because it doesn't).

No.

Just as others have no claim on your time, or choices - not really, deep down they don't - you, equally, don't have a claim on them.

They have chosen differently - let them go. Likewise, your choices are your choices requiring neither apology nor explanation to justify them to others, just a polite statement of preferences and priorities. But, others may not share that - just as you don't share what they have now chosen to prioritise.

 

[dukebound85]

interests change over time. I used to watch sports and play video games. I don't desire to anymore. He probably doesn't care about dungeons and dragons anymore

 

[mobilehaathi]

I came here for a discussion on work/life balance, but I think it's actually something slightly different that is being discussed. OP, I get the impression that you feel excessively judged or condemned for maintaining serious hobbies in addition to a full time job and a family. What specifically makes you feel this way? Are you getting regular negative feedback from your partner? Your friends? Your employer? What prompted you to start the thread?

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I came here for a discussion on work/life balance, but I think it's actually something slightly different that is being discussed. OP, I get the impression that you feel excessively judged or condemned for maintaining serious hobbies in addition to a full time job and a family. What specifically makes you feel this way? Are you getting regular negative feedback from your partner? Your friends? Your employer? What prompted you to start the thread?

Agreed.

Initially, when I came to the thread, that is what I thought it was about, too, but found it was about other matters, and responded accordingly.

But, I'll echo @mobilehaathi's comments (and questions).

 

[Apple fanboy]

I think work/Home or hobbies/family time balance is a personal thing.
Think about how often you speak to your parents or see them.
For some talking to their parents everyday is considered normal (even if they are living separately).
For others once a week or month.
Neither is right or wrong. Just different.

But what do I know. I've not seen my daughter in nearly 2 years

 

[smallcoffee]

LOL!

OK, ok! it's a joke. Fine

But I still hear people saying they cannot engage in the things they used to do because of committments. I will always find that to be an excuse since I seem to find room for both my committments and my interests.

That's okay though. The fact that my post is lightly percieved indicates to me that I have the correct perspective.

PS. No upset feelings in this post, just so everyone's aware of that.

Well kind of. I used to work out 2-3x /day. Now I can't because I have more important stuff to do.

I don't see why you would outright sever a relationship of 20 years because somebody can't show up. Surely you can still be friends.

 

[eyoungren]

Well kind of. I used to work out 2-3x /day. Now I can't because I have more important stuff to do.

I don't see why you would outright sever a relationship of 20 years because somebody can't show up. Surely you can still be friends.

There were a variety of other reasons, not just that one reason.

And as @Scepticalscribe pointed out it's priorities.

You place more priority on "more important stuff to do" than you do working out at this time. Since my original post that's a concept I recognize. So for you, working out isn't important anymore. That's fine. It's where we place priorities.

I had a priority with my friend to get together one night a week for at least four hours via Skype. For four weeks in a row, said friend decided he had other priorities and when he did show up it was because his local friends had bailed on him. We had agreed to this and he chose not to honor his committment.

The excuses were:

- I couldn't call you back because I left my phone outside all night and it rained
- Sorry, I fell asleep on the couch
- The toilet at the office backed up and overflowed (multiple times)
- My kid stepped on my headset and now it's messed up
- The headset I got at Walmart to replace that one was the wrong one

Several times I offered microphones and headsets. But it became apparent that his priority was different than mine. My kids know to respect other people's property. We also wouldn't leave something like a headset carelessly lying on the floor so a kid could just stomp on it like his kid did, which he made no effort to stop apparently.

No, his priority was only in line with mine when it suited him and for whatever reason it stopped suiting him around this time.

But this was the only thing holding us together as "friends". He never liked my wife and I and friends we knew collectively did not care for his wife. Politics separated us because we moved to polar opposites.

Arrogance was one of his traits, at least until he got out on his own and it wasn't his parents helping him with house and car payments which he negligently incurred without having the income for it.

To be fair, I had (have) my own arrogance, but I'm also deathly afraid about losing life, income and property so I do what I must to keep it. And being married to my wife has tempered that arrogance (somewhat).

In any case, looking back I realized he'd just been using me for his benefit whenever it suited his purpose. The fact that our purposes aligned quite a bit in highschool and early college masked things for me.

But deep down, after having moved out of state from where he is I realized we didn't really have much in common any more. It just all came to a head at this point.

Anyway, again my purpose in this post was not him or my friendship with him but the argument of not having time because of life and marriage and kids and so on. I was just using him as an example of the person who is always so busy (purposely in my viewpoint) they have no time for themselves.

 

[smallcoffee]

There were a variety of other reasons, not just that one reason.

And as @Scepticalscribe pointed out it's priorities.

You place more priority on "more important stuff to do" than you do working out at this time. Since my original post that's a concept I recognize. So for you, working out isn't important anymore. That's fine. It's where we place priorities.

I had a priority with my friend to get together one night a week for at least four hours via Skype. For four weeks in a row, said friend decided he had other priorities and when he did show up it was because his local friends had bailed on him. We had agreed to this and he chose not to honor his committment.

The excuses were:

- I couldn't call you back because I left my phone outside all night and it rained
- Sorry, I fell asleep on the couch
- The toilet at the office backed up and overflowed (multiple times)
- My kid stepped on my headset and now it's messed up
- The headset I got at Walmart to replace that one was the wrong one

Several times I offered microphones and headsets. But it became apparent that his priority was different than mine. My kids know to respect other people's property. We also wouldn't leave something like a headset carelessly lying on the floor so a kid could just stomp on it like his kid did, which he made no effort to stop apparently.

No, his priority was only in line with mine when it suited him and for whatever reason it stopped suiting him around this time.

But this was the only thing holding us together as "friends". He never liked my wife and I and friends we knew collectively did not care for his wife. Politics separated us because we moved to polar opposites.

Arrogance was one of his traits, at least until he got out on his own and it wasn't his parents helping him with house and car payments which he negligently incurred without having the income for it.

To be fair, I had (have) my own arrogance, but I'm also deathly afraid about losing life, income and property so I do what I must to keep it. And being married to my wife has tempered that arrogance (somewhat).

In any case, looking back I realized he'd just been using me for his benefit whenever it suited his purpose. The fact that our purposes aligned quite a bit in highschool and early college masked things for me.

But deep down, after having moved out of state from where he is I realized we didn't really have much in common any more. It just all came to a head at this point.

Anyway, again my purpose in this post was not him or my friendship with him but the argument of not having time because of life and marriage and kids and so on. I was just using him as an example of the person who is always so busy (purposely in my viewpoint) they have no time for themselves.

Yeah. Way over-analyzing this...

 

[mobilehaathi]

Anyway, again my purpose in this post was not him or my friendship with him but the argument of not having time because of life and marriage and kids and so on. I was just using him as an example of the person who is always so busy (purposely in my viewpoint) they have no time for themselves.

You keep saying this, but you clearly have quite a lot to say about this former friend. In spite of your protestations, you do mention this person (and go into some detail) quite a lot.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

There were a variety of other reasons, not just that one reason.

And as @Scepticalscribe pointed out it's priorities.

You place more priority on "more important stuff to do" than you do working out at this time. Since my original post that's a concept I recognize. So for you, working out isn't important anymore. That's fine. It's where we place priorities.

I had a priority with my friend to get together one night a week for at least four hours via Skype. For four weeks in a row, said friend decided he had other priorities and when he did show up it was because his local friends had bailed on him. We had agreed to this and he chose not to honor his committment.

The excuses were:

- I couldn't call you back because I left my phone outside all night and it rained
- Sorry, I fell asleep on the couch
- The toilet at the office backed up and overflowed (multiple times)
- My kid stepped on my headset and now it's messed up
- The headset I got at Walmart to replace that one was the wrong one

Several times I offered microphones and headsets. But it became apparent that his priority was different than mine. My kids know to respect other people's property. We also wouldn't leave something like a headset carelessly lying on the floor so a kid could just stomp on it like his kid did, which he made no effort to stop apparently.

No, his priority was only in line with mine when it suited him and for whatever reason it stopped suiting him around this time.

But this was the only thing holding us together as "friends". He never liked my wife and I and friends we knew collectively did not care for his wife. Politics separated us because we moved to polar opposites.

Arrogance was one of his traits, at least until he got out on his own and it wasn't his parents helping him with house and car payments which he negligently incurred without having the income for it.

To be fair, I had (have) my own arrogance, but I'm also deathly afraid about losing life, income and property so I do what I must to keep it. And being married to my wife has tempered that arrogance (somewhat).

In any case, looking back I realized he'd just been using me for his benefit whenever it suited his purpose. The fact that our purposes aligned quite a bit in highschool and early college masked things for me.

But deep down, after having moved out of state from where he is I realized we didn't really have much in common any more. It just all came to a head at this point.

Anyway, again my purpose in this post was not him or my friendship with him but the argument of not having time because of life and marriage and kids and so on. I was just using him as an example of the person who is always so busy (purposely in my viewpoint) they have no time for themselves.

But, that is his choice.

And nowhere do I see evidence of him using you, or doing things for "his benefit"; rather, I see someone who had once enjoyed spending time doing these activities who no longer derives similar enjoyment from them, and is not now prepared sacrifice the time on either the shared interest or the shared friendship. Basically, he has arrived at a stage in his life, where this no longer engages him - and indeed, wrote possibly bores him - and there is nothing wrong with that.

And yes, where, when there was little else to occupy him, he was quite prepared to spend several hours on D&D, but not as a regular activity, or investment of time.

The explanations - or excuses - he gave you offered 'face-saving' justifications. The truth might be that he finds the endless hours spent on a pursuit that is charming in a young student a bit tiresome, tedious, and frankly, time-consuming.

To be honest, I get a sense that it is the rejection of you, your interests, and values that nettles you, and this is what the thread has become about, rather than the separate question of establishing a work life balance.

Three thoughts occur:

The first is to repeat what I said earlier in this thread - that priorities - what matters to you - can change over time.

The second is to say that people also can change over time; what absorbed you when you were younger - perhaps - bores you today. People grow apart, even when they were once best friends. You look at someone and realise that while you wish them well, five minutes in their company once a decade is quite sufficient.

And the third is the value of time. As you age, (or mature) - money - while important - may become less so, but time - especially if you are working, have core relationships - becomes a lot more important.

Personally, I really begrudge my time; and, - I suspect - that you may be too demanding of the time of others; someone who may be perfectly happy to meet you for a beer or two to chat about - say - football, once a week may well resent and begrudge the sort of friendship that demands four hours - at least - once a week on Skype.

Frankly, offering headphones is missing the point. (And that would annoy the hell out of me, by the way; I'd see it not as something intended to solve an immediate issue of lack of headphones - Jesus, are you oblivious? - my kid stepped on my headphones (yes, it could happen, but I doubt it) is up there with 'the dog ate my homework' - but as an attempt at controlling a relationship).

The point is not that he is using you, or is arrogant, or that this 'suited him', but, rather that he is signalling that the relationship on the terms you have set is costing him too much - too much time, too much effort, too much work.

Most people don't want their friendships to be hard work - they get that from their job, and possibly, also from their primary relationship. My view is that you are asking too much of the relationship, and, as a consequence, he has bailed; yes, rejection hurts.

But, this is not a 'life work balance' equation, rather, I suspect that it is putting a particular friendship in the balance and finding it wanting.