not that he needs a GPU. It was used to illustrate the fact that the Mac is not necessarily more reliable just because you pay a fortune.
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Lifelong Windows usr planning to buy a Mac
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Honestly, now is the worst time to buy a Mac. IF you would consider windows laptops instead, I would definitely recommend the Dell XPS - build quality of a Mac, zero glitches, far better hardware for money and no donglelife.
If you still want a mac, either get the last gen ones (which have almost the same hardware but much better battery, ports and arguably the keyboard), or wait until WWDC on june the 5th when Apple (hopefully) announces the updates to the current Macbook lineup, which is still without a doubt the buggiest macbook lineup I've seen. At the moment, it is simply not worth the money.
If you still want a mac, either get the last gen ones (which have almost the same hardware but much better battery, ports and arguably the keyboard), or wait until WWDC on june the 5th when Apple (hopefully) announces the updates to the current Macbook lineup, which is still without a doubt the buggiest macbook lineup I've seen. At the moment, it is simply not worth the money.
Dell XPS is a fine computer, but this just isn't true.
Oh yes it is. I had 2015 13'' Macbook for a year and a half and a dell XPS for the same amount of time, both had zero issues in terms of build quality. So from my own experience they are equally great
Do you own XPS 15? I'm sorry, but this entire statement is untrue. IMHO of course.
I recommend windows laptops all the time. Because in lots of areas, you can find better laptops on windows side then on mac side.
But Dell XPS is a joke. Nice screen with slim bezels. That is all there is to it.
Dell XPS, even 9560 still suffers from coil whine. Some don't care, but some (like me) do. There are ton of screen glitches, especially with bleeding. Good luck in getting one without screen issues.
And then, there is Dell support... OMG I really don't wish for anyone to deal with dell regarding a return or a fix.
I could go on and on about Dell... If you want to recommend a nice windows laptop, recommend Thinkpad for example. Build quality, battery, screen... Thinkpad has it all. Expensive, but worth it. Or some of MS Surfaces, since those have really grown up.
But Dell? Lets just say my firm has banned anyone from ordering Dell anymore.
Well then this entire paragraph is untrue
I have both 13 inch and 15 inch dell XPS, and we run dell as corporate laptops at the investment firm I work in (after we've moved away from Lenovo last year), none of them had any issues. I never had any screen bleeding, not a single glitch. Coil whine was never that anyone in our firm reported.
Saying that Thinkpads have better screen immediately shows you've never had the new XPS in your hands, I'm sorry, but they have hands down the best screens of all the laptops on the market.
Dell support is average, they get the job done, but nothing amazing.
However, an SSD failure? We can fix it right in our firm in a couple of hours.
New Mac SSD failure? Bye-bye work for the next couple of weeks as you ship it for replacement.
Who's talking about issues? People have no issues with cheap plastic computers either. And both a $20 Quartz watch and an expensive mechanical Omega have zero issues - but would you say they have the same build quality? Build quality is not just about whether or not you have issues, its about the quality of design.
Just one example: you can open the MacBook Pro with one hand and the lid opens with a satisfying light pressure, smoothly. If you try that on Dell XPS, the whole computer rises and the hinge has a much less pleasant feel while opening. That's not an "issue", it's just worse build quality.
You're just not paying attention to certain things, or you don't care. But that's not "the same build quality".
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That is just one minor example, I could easily bring in something more significant like keyboard keys that get stuck on the new Macbook, which should not happen on a laptop at this price.
And talking about in terms of quality of design, I can easily plug in any of the old devices into dell XPS. AND new devices, since it has a USB C port. AND SD cards. AND charge it without using any of the other ports. This one "Quality of design" feature far outweighs any one-hand-opening features of the new Mac.
As someone that has deployed about 15 in a company setting, the dell XPS 15 is not the way to go. Out of the 15, 5 have had to have their motherboards replaced. There are bugs galore on these things. As a life long windows/Linux user who recently got a 2016 13" nTb model its great. It has done some quirky things but that's because I'm messing with it. There is also no sense in waiting for next MacBook pros all that is going to happen is a kaby lake CPU upgrade. Which MAY POSSIBLY net you between 5-10% improvement based on certain applications. Look at current desktop benchmarks between the two you will see that the slight performance increase does not really equate to real world.
Possibly. But there may also POSSIBLY be larger battery models and non-touchbar versions of the top models, which would be great as it means we are getting more powerful Macbooks which also have better battery (actual larger battery + lack of TB running 24/7 in the background) and are less buggy and are also cheaper.
That's literally what I'm hoping/waiting on.
15" non-Touch bar with even better battery life and hopefully something having been done to make the KB's more reliable. I'm very worried about the reliability of these Butterfly boards given how it's going so far into their young life.
Well, then you are very, VERY lucky. I have yet to receive 13/15 XPS that doesn't suffer from coil whine
I didn't say Thinkpads have better screen. But what I will say is: Thinkpads have less issues with screen then Dell.
And as far as dell in my hands go, well, I have had more then a 50 of them in my hands in the last 2-3 years alone. Most of our company was either on Dell or Apple
Dell has been replaced now. And no one is complaining
Very much true. But then again, when your SSD fails while you still have warranty, what do you do then? Replace it yourself and lose $$$? Or ask for Dell support? And then again, SSD on Dell is a joke compared to new MBP's. Not because of hardware, but because of (lousy) drivers. Just like 9550 series had issues with GPU drivers and screen freezes. Or you didn't experience those as well, even though every other dell xps owner has? And that problem lasted for almost 2 months.
Are you sure you are using a Dell XPS?
P.S.
As far as just replacing SSD goes, you are right there. Easy on Dell, impossible on MBP. Same goes with RAM. But then again, if something fails, we have backup laptops/computers. And we have backups of our entire OS or just work. So just a simple swap of computers goes a long way while the laptop that is broken is getting a repair.
I thought every company has at least a few backups
Well then this entire paragraph is untrue
I have both 13 inch and 15 inch dell XPS, and we run dell as corporate laptops at the investment firm I work in (after we've moved away from Lenovo last year), none of them had any issues. I never had any screen bleeding, not a single glitch. Coil whine was never that anyone in our firm reported.
Saying that Thinkpads have better screen immediately shows you've never had the new XPS in your hands, I'm sorry, but they have hands down the best screens of all the laptops on the market.
Dell support is average, they get the job done, but nothing amazing.
However, an SSD failure? We can fix it right in our firm in a couple of hours.
New Mac SSD failure? Bye-bye work for the next couple of weeks as you ship it for replacement.
I must say in Dells favour (in our experience of support) has been exemplary and far better than Apple simply because of onsite assistance, my son who insisted on a Dell to replace his 2013 15" MBP had a problem.
The Dell technician was on his door step the next day. Although Apple have a fine track record I'd rather a qualified technician going through real instu problems than now with the almost unserviceable 2016 MBP where a guy runs a few test and ships it off to be repaired from an Apple store
As for build quality so many get mixed up with aesthetics and what's actually in the box.
Not all that is shiny is golden and the new breed of laptops especially Apple MBP (But they are not alone) with greater homogenous main boards and glued in unserviceable part with zero upgradability is not IMO indicative of build quality. Sure maybe you can marvel how they managed to cram and glue it in the box but to me the beauty and build quality is skin deep only now
What you're talking is QA. If keys fail on the keyboard, that is a manufacturing error. Dell's hinge is just badly made, there are no Dell computers with good hinges, while there are certainly MBPs with no keyboard issues.
As for plugging in old devices (seriously, this again?) - that is also not build quality. That is a design decision - you don't have to like it, it may be bad design, but it's not bad build quality. And ffs, this whole "issue" is getting really old.
In the end, Dell is a fine computer, it's the best computer for some people, but it has worse build quality than any MacBook.
Well, then you are very, VERY lucky. I have yet to receive 13/15 XPS that doesn't suffer from coil whine
I didn't say Thinkpads have better screen. But what I will say is: Thinkpads have less issues with screen then Dell.
And as far as dell in my hands go, well, I have had more then a 50 of them in my hands in the last 2-3 years alone. Most of our company was either on Dell or Apple
Dell has been replaced now. And no one is complaining
Very much true. But then again, when your SSD fails while you still have warranty, what do you do then? Replace it yourself and lose $$$? Or ask for Dell support? And then again, SSD on Dell is a joke compared to new MBP's. Not because of hardware, but because of (lousy) drivers. Just like 9550 series had issues with GPU drivers and screen freezes. Or you didn't experience those as well, even though every other dell xps owner has? And that problem lasted for almost 2 months.
Are you sure you are using a Dell XPS?
P.S.
As far as just replacing SSD goes, you are right there. Easy on Dell, impossible on MBP. Same goes with RAM. But then again, if something fails, we have backup laptops/computers. And we have backups of our entire OS or just work. So just a simple swap of computers goes a long way while the laptop that is broken is getting a repair.
I thought every company has at least a few backups
We have both backup computers and replacement SSDs, and the tech department usually does the repairs. But unless somedoby drops it out of a window, the replacement SSDs usually suffice
No, I had absolutely zero issues with my Dell XPS, maybe I am the lucky one
maybe you are talking about the old drivers? I heard about these issues when the XPS was just released, but they have been long fixed by now.[doublepost=1495392000][/doublepost]
Well, looks like you've just contradicted yourself
Well, looks like you've just contradicted yourself
Not really - quality of design and design quality are not the same thing.
Quality of design - or in this case build quality - is how well something is made - how well a design is realized in physical reality. For example, if you decide to make a laptop without a screen, that would be a bad design decision - but you can still have good build quality.
Design quality is how well something is thought out. It's a broader term. You can have a product with bad design but good build quality.
But I agree, for clarity sake, it's better to use the term "build quality" instead of "quality of design". Also, keep in mind that English is not my first language, so don't nitpick, please. I think you understood what I was trying to say:
- That build quality is not just not having issues, but how well a design is made (the example I gave is how well a hinge is made).
- A design decision is whether you have that hinge at all or not.
- And "issues" have to do whether that hinge is working as intended (designed) or there was a manufacturing error.
All in all - MacBook Pros have the best build quality on the market, rivaled only by Microsoft Surface products, but not by Dell who, otherwise, makes good value computers.
Im not sure about the best part here... my own macbook 13" suffers from this wierd "popping sound" when i open the lid and then abit later again when it gets warmer without touching the machine. Another macbook (not my own, suffers the same). And it is widespread but apple doesnt comment it: http://fortune.com/2017/04/13/macbook-pro-popping-sound/
that is a known issue, but still apple blames the user and ask money to "fix" it: http://nordic.businessinsider.com/2016-macbook-pro-weird-popping-noise-2017-4?r=UK&IR=T "... to Apple's Genius Bar customer service team, a dent on the bottom of their MacBook Pro was blamed, and they had to pay $130 to get it fixed..."
My keyboard also get stiffy when the macbook becomes warmer and some keys may not be as responsive after it (e.g. the enter key). Not to mention people who suffer the differend kind of clicking sound in their keyboard.
What makes it worst is that apple already knew that this new butterfly keyboard has its problems (12" macbook) but then they introduced the "better" one for the new macbook pro with same errors and new problems.
I sent my macbook back to apple before the warranty ends... hopefully they have fixed all those issue before that.
High-end build quality? Yea, right... Best of all? Sure...
If i didnt need macbook, i wouldnt buy it either. High end win laptops are cheaper and well made.
that is a known issue, but still apple blames the user and ask money to "fix" it: http://nordic.businessinsider.com/2016-macbook-pro-weird-popping-noise-2017-4?r=UK&IR=T "... to Apple's Genius Bar customer service team, a dent on the bottom of their MacBook Pro was blamed, and they had to pay $130 to get it fixed..."
My keyboard also get stiffy when the macbook becomes warmer and some keys may not be as responsive after it (e.g. the enter key). Not to mention people who suffer the differend kind of clicking sound in their keyboard.
What makes it worst is that apple already knew that this new butterfly keyboard has its problems (12" macbook) but then they introduced the "better" one for the new macbook pro with same errors and new problems.
I sent my macbook back to apple before the warranty ends... hopefully they have fixed all those issue before that.
High-end build quality? Yea, right... Best of all? Sure...
If i didnt need macbook, i wouldnt buy it either. High end win laptops are cheaper and well made.
Google it up. Lots of topics on the matter. At work, this does not bother me, I can't hear it while working with other people. But while alone... Well, annoying.
Its my understanding that the kaby lake version of the XPS doesn't have this issue. I have not really investigated the problem so I'm not 100% sure on this ,but I do recall stumbling on some mention its not a problem now
Some XPS models with Kaby still have the issue, where as other individual specimens do not. IIRC, Dell redesigned the logic board so some Kaby models will have the updated version and some the original - I am not sure if the new LB revision has fixed the issue or not, nor if Skylake versions have also been given a revised LB.
Many professional reviewers neglected to mention it (or all happened to have selective hearing loss.) But that shouldn't come as much of a surprise given how many products that get great professional reviews often range from awesome-to-totally-sucks in real-world usage situations...
I'm willing to criticize the MacBook Pro, so I am also willing to criticize the XPS as well. The quality of Dell's response to this issue has been poor - much of the noise they deemed as "normal", and for a while they were doing nothing for consumers under their warranty (much like how Apple treated 2011 15/17 MBP owners with failed dGPUs for the first three years.) Dell has a very good computer, but they should do a better job with this issue, because this is a significant design flaw, and the XPS is marketed as a flagship machine.
No need for me to Google it. I can't hear well anyway. Would not be an issue for me. Does it affect performance or is it audible when recording audio like an instrument or dictation?
It does not affect performance in anyway. But recording yourself will be an issues for sure. You don't have to listen very hard to hear it. Especially in a quiet room. As I tend to do programming on weekends in a quite place, it annoyed the hell out of me.
But if everything else checks out nice (no other problems), and you don't find coil whine annoying, it's really a capable and nice laptop.