Looks like it's (*NO LONGER*) the end of the road... YES!!!

[Luposian]

After banging my head into a brick wall, for over four different attempts (each time yielding the same result: "your macOS is out of date, update."), talking to an Apple support person in chat (failed yet again), and finally talking to an Apple Tech (I guess) over the phone this morning, the offical word is... "We don't support booting from an external device".

There is one last thing I just tried that failed as well ("restore" from Disk Utility), so I'm just going to return my 500Gb external... I guess it just can't be done. ?

If anyone has successfully created an install of Big Sur 11.0.1 on their M1 Mac (I assume any model (M1 MBA/MBP/Mini)), bootable from an external SSD (or even an external rotational drive, if that matters), please detail the steps you went through. I'll gladly pay via PayPal for this knowledge, once successfully accomplished.

 

[Jeffrey Sanfilippo]

After banging my head into a brick wall, for over four different attempts (each time yielding the same result: "your macOS is out of date, update."), talking to an Apple support person in chat (failed yet again), and finally talking to an Apple Tech (I guess) over the phone this morning, the offical word is... "We don't support booting from an external device".

There is one last thing I just tried that failed as well ("restore" from Disk Utility), so I'm just going to return my 500Gb external... I guess it just can't be done. ?

If anyone has successfully created an install of Big Sur 11.0.1 on their M1 Mac (I assume any model (M1 MBA/MBP/Mini)), bootable from an external SSD (or even an external rotational drive, if that matters), please detail the steps you went through. I'll gladly pay via PayPal for this knowledge, once successfully accomplished.

It's not doable right now and probably not gonna happen. It's less secure and means your more likely to go to apple repair when your hardrive goes out

 

[Quackers]

Whether it's possible or not I don't think Apple's staff are likely to instruct you how to disable SIP to then enable booting from external devices.
Just my thoughts on the subject (unless I'm missing something).

 

[Jeffrey Sanfilippo]

Whether it's possible or not I don't think Apple's staff are likely to instruct you how to disable SIP to then enable booting from external devices.
Just my thoughts on the subject (unless I'm missing something).

They removed the option all together in recovery. It's not a matter of turning it on or off they wrote it out. SIP can still be disabled though. Given Apples track record I'm not expecting it to return anytime soon

 

[mikeboss]

huh? I had no trouble whatsoever when I tried this. it feels like I did this ages ago... AFAIR I just downloaded the installer from the App Store and installed onto the external drive (Thunderbolt 3 SSD).

 

[s66]

Not sure I get what you try to achieve (nor how).

But a few pointers that might help you:
- You can create bootable installers on e.g. a USB drive to install software on an M1 mac:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372

- There are procedures to restore macOS on an M1 powered mac here:

If an error occurred while updating or installing macOS - Apple Support

The message might say that an error occurred while downloading, preparing, or installing, or that the software is damaged, could not be verified, or failed to personalize. The cause of messages like these can vary, and sometimes they're only temporary.

support.apple.com

- The configurator 2 running on another mac and using the appropriate cabling between the macs can also put the firmware for the mac back onto the internal SSD (it MUST be there!)

Revive or restore a Mac with Apple silicon using Apple Configurator 2

In rare circumstances, Apple computers become unresponsive and the chip’s firmware must be revived or restored.

support.apple.com

That said: I would for sure not want an M1 mac that boots from a spinning disk. The whole concept of unified memory feels contradictory with using a comparatively extremely slow disk in there.

 

[Jeffrey Sanfilippo]

huh? I had no trouble whatsoever when I tried this. it feels like I did this ages ago... AFAIR I just downloaded the installer from the App Store and installed onto the external drive (Thunderbolt 3 SSD).

Yeah you can't do it on a M1. To Apple's Defense their are components exclusive to the M1 Processor. Their's a good chance if someone tried to Boot Linux or Windows on it designed for Intel. Neither OS would know what to do with the Neural Engine and it could harm the hardware.

 

[mikeboss]

Yeah you can't do it on a M1. To Apple's Defense their are components exclusive to the M1 Processor. Their's a good chance if someone tried to Boot Linux or Windows on it designed for Intel. Neither OS would know what to do with the Neural Engine and it could harm the hardware.

yeah, you can do that on an M1. in fact, I just did. for fun, because I wanted to know.

downloaded the installer from the App Store. installed onto one of my Thunderbolt 3 SSDs, done!

 

[Luposian]

yeah, you can do that on an M1. in fact, I just did. for fun, because I wanted to know.

downloaded the installer from the App Store. installed onto one of my Thunderbolt 3 SSDs, done!

Ok, you say you created a bootable install of Big Sur 11.0.1 on your M1 on an SSD. I want to know the EXACT steps, nothing left out. Describe everything, step by step. I have tried at least four times and everything comes up saying “Out of date... update.”

If I can duplicate your success, I will pay you $50 via PayPal. That’s how bad I want to be able to do it. You say "AFAIR" (As Far As I Recall)... yet the M1 Macs have JUST been released. You can't have done it THAT long ago (so "Recall" shouldn't be that difficult), if you did it successfully on your M1 Mac.

As for what I've done:

1) Downloaded Big Sur 11.0.1 from the Mac App Store on my M1 Mac Mini (Dec. 10th). STOPPED it from installing, by quitting the installer. Followed the steps (at the two sites below; the second site says how to drag and drop, to make shortcuts in the Terminal, instead of copy/paste bunches of text, but the first site sometimes explains steps a little better, like to QUIT the installer and how to do so), to create a USB installer thumb drive (on a 32Gb USB 3.0 PNY thumb drive):

How to create a bootable USB masOS installer

Make a macOS installer with createinstallmedia and install Monterey or another macOS on multiple Macs, do a clean install, or access a faulty Mac.

www.macworld.com

How to create a bootable macOS Big Sur USB installer drive - 9to5Mac

This tutorial shows you how to create a bootable macOS Big Sur USB installer drive, which can be handy for performing fresh installs on your Mac.

9to5mac.com

I formatted the 500GB WD My Passport 500GB SSD (with USB-C cable) in Big Sur 11.0.1 on my M1 Mac, as "Untitled", APFS (plain; no other features like encryption or case sensitivity), and GUID partition map.

Now, assuming everything was done properly, thus far... what would I do next? My drive is blank once again...

I asked one of the Apple people if it's possible I could have a corrupted installer. Or if there was a newer version of the installer uploaded to the site (he said he didn't think so). My copy of the Big Sur Installer is: 12,219,844,304 bytes (12.21 GB on disk) and it's Version: 16.1.04, if that helps.

Here's to hoping someone can lead me to a working solution...

 

[Luposian]

Yeah you can't do it on a M1. To Apple's Defense their are components exclusive to the M1 Processor. Their's a good chance if someone tried to Boot Linux or Windows on it designed for Intel. Neither OS would know what to do with the Neural Engine and it could harm the hardware.

Why can't Apple simply identify/forbid a non-Apple OS from executing on their system? The M1 Macs are pretty much locked down like that already. And, it's not like I want to run another OS on my M1 Mac Mini. I just want to run Big Sur 11.0.1 on an external drive. That's all! Not like I'm trying to pork the system into Neverland or something!

 

[Mike Boreham]

@Luposian are you using a USB external or a true thunderbolt device? The maker of Etrecheck told me that (at least on Intel Macs) the system can hardly distinguish between an external thunderbolt device and an internal drive, which is not true for external USB drives.

mikeboss said he used an external thunderbolt SSD.

NB this is only speculation, not fact, for the reason that mikeboss can boot external and you (and I) can't.

 

[Pressure]

Why can't Apple simply identify/forbid a non-Apple OS from executing on their system? The M1 Macs are pretty much locked down like that already. And, it's not like I want to run another OS on my M1 Mac Mini. I just want to run Big Sur 11.0.1 on an external drive. That's all! Not like I'm trying to pork the system into Neverland or something!

What file format is the drive you try to install Big Sur on?

 

[mikeboss]

the reason why I had a hard time to remember my testing in the first place: I did it with the DTK...
I didn't use createinstallmedia, I just started the Install macOS Big Sur.app in the Applications folder.
IMHO, primary mass storage shouldn't be connected using USB, especially not SSDs because TRIM still doesn't work over USB (with macOS).

 

[Mike Boreham]

the reason why I had a hard time to remember my testing in the first place: I did it with the DTK...
I didn't use createinstallmedia, I just started the Install macOS Big Sur.app in the Applications folder.
IMHO, primary mass storage shouldn't be connected using USB, especially not SSDs because TRIM still doesn't work over USB (with macOS).

Agree in theory, but I don't think TRIM is as important as it used to be and millions of people have been using Samsung T3 T5 and similar for some time without reports of problems.

Have you tried booting your DTK from a USB external?

 

[mikeboss]

Agree in theory, but I don't think TRIM is as important as it used to be and millions of people have been using Samsung T3 T5 and similar for some time without reports of problems.

Have you tried booting your DTK from a USB external?

the DTK has no Thunderbolt. so yes, back then I had to try it on a USB drive (SAMSUNG T5).
I tend to believe that TRIM is there for a reason and I want my systems to operate under optimal conditions. also, the S.M.A.R.T. stuff works out of the box if a drive is connected using Thunderbolt.

 

[mwidjaya]

If anyone has successfully created an install of Big Sur 11.0.1 on their M1 Mac (I assume any model (M1 MBA/MBP/Mini)), bootable from an external SSD (or even an external rotational drive, if that matters), please detail the steps you went through. I'll gladly pay via PayPal for this knowledge, once successfully accomplished.

Not super clear on what you are trying to do.

Create a bootable USB installer?

or

Bootable install of Big Sur on external SSD?

I would think both are possible. Can't think of a reason why not.

 

[jeanlain]

"We don't support booting from an external device"

"They will let users boot from external drives".
Someone didn't get the memo.

 

[Mike Boreham]

the DTK has no Thunderbolt. so yes, back then I had to try it on a USB drive (SAMSUNG T5).
I tend to believe that TRIM is there for a reason and I want my systems to operate under optimal conditions. also, the S.M.A.R.T. stuff works out of the box if a drive is connected using Thunderbolt.

Yes if I was booting from an external as a permanent use case I would definitely go Thunderbolt. SMART is a good example of how the system treats TB externals as an internal drive, but not USB externals. But for occasional uses and utilities I have booted from USB which works readily on Intel Macs and not so far on my M1 MBA.

 

[Mike Boreham]

yeah, you can do that on an M1. in fact, I just did. for fun, because I wanted to know.

downloaded the installer from the App Store. installed onto one of my Thunderbolt 3 SSDs, done!

Just re-reading this thread, I wonder why you said you had just installed onto a thunderbolt 3 SSD, when neither the Samsung T5 nor the DTK support thunderbolt? (I didn't know DTK don't have TB).

I would not be surprised if a DTK Mac and released production M1 Macs are different with respect to this issue.

 

[Mechanism]

I'm curious so I'll try it with a Samsung T5; it should fail.

 

[radus]

After banging my head into a brick wall, for over four different attempts (each time yielding the same result: "your macOS is out of date, update."), talking to an Apple support person in chat (failed yet again), and finally talking to an Apple Tech (I guess) over the phone this morning, the offical word is... "We don't support booting from an external device".

There is one last thing I just tried that failed as well ("restore" from Disk Utility), so I'm just going to return my 500Gb external... I guess it just can't be done. ?

If anyone has successfully created an install of Big Sur 11.0.1 on their M1 Mac (I assume any model (M1 MBA/MBP/Mini)), bootable from an external SSD (or even an external rotational drive, if that matters), please detail the steps you went through. I'll gladly pay via PayPal for this knowledge, once successfully accomplished.

My configuration: M1 mini 16GB 256GB SSD, external Thunderbolt 3 nvme ssd
mac os x 12.01

download big surf from the applestore
install it on the external Thunderbolt 3 ssd (just from the internal ssd - no boot-usb...)
boot and work from the external Thunderbolt 3 ssd
no problem at all

I did it 2 weeks ago - may be I allowed booting from external ssds.

 

[mikeboss]

Just re-reading this thread, I wonder why you said you had just installed onto a thunderbolt 3 SSD, when neither the Samsung T5 nor the DTK support thunderbolt? (I didn't know DTK don't have TB).

I would not be surprised if a DTK Mac and released production M1 Macs are different with respect to this issue.

I did the test with the DTK many weeks ago. last night I tried in on my Macmini9,1 with a Thunderbolt SSD.

 

[Mike Boreham]

My configuration: M1 mini 16GB 256GB SSD, external Thunderbolt 3 nvme ssd
mac os x 12.01

download big surf from the applestore
install it on the external Thunderbolt 3 ssd (just from the internal ssd - no boot-usb...)
boot and work from the external Thunderbolt 3 ssd
no problem at all

I did it 2 weeks ago - may be I allowed booting from external ssds.

Thanks Radus.

Unlike T2 Macs, M1 Macs don't have a specific option for allowing booting from an external. The Startup Security Options in Recovery on M1 Macs don't mention external booting specifically. I am using the Reduced Security option.

Your experience is consistent with (but doesn't prove) that external TB booting works but external USB booting doesn't.

 

[Mike Boreham]

I did the test with the DTK many weeks ago. last night I tried in on my Macmini9,1 with a Thunderbolt SSD.

Thanks for clarifying, so last night's test with M1 Mini was with a proper TB external (not the T5 which is USB) ?

That confirms Radus's experience that TB boots and USB doesn't (although there might still be a way of booting USB).

 

[Mechanism]

I'm curious so I'll try it with a Samsung T5; it should fail.

I assume that's the problem: