Looks like it's (*NO LONGER*) the end of the road... YES!!!

[ort888]

Hmmm, I was under the impressions this was still possible. Ugh, this is annoying.

I wasn't really looking to spend the extra money for a full Thunderbolt drive... I guess I'll have to come up with some other solution.

I was hoping to clone my work computer and see what works and what doesn't before installing everything. I was hoping to do it with a Samsung SSD. I guess I won't be doing that after all...

 

[mikeboss]

I don't think that it matters what brand/model of Thunderbolt SSD you're getting.


- format the SSD as APFS drive

- download macOS Big Sur installer from/with the App Store

- start "Install macOS Big Sur.app"

- install onto the external SSD

<p>G-Technology G-DRIVE Mobile Pro SSD Thunderbolt 3 External SSD (500 GB to 2 TB)</p> | Western Digital

Take your rugged SSD on the go with the G-DRIVE Mobile Pro SSD. Edit 8k at full frame rate & render VR projects wherever you are. Shop now for FREE shipping.

shop.westerndigital.com

 

[Luposian]

I don't think that it matters what brand/model of Thunderbolt SSD you're getting.


- format the SSD as APFS drive

- download macOS Big Sur installer from/with the App Store

- start "Install macOS Big Sur.app"

- install onto the external SSD

<p>G-Technology G-DRIVE Mobile Pro SSD Thunderbolt 3 External SSD (500 GB to 2 TB)</p> | Western Digital

Take your rugged SSD on the go with the G-DRIVE Mobile Pro SSD. Edit 8k at full frame rate & render VR projects wherever you are. Shop now for FREE shipping.

shop.westerndigital.com

I ask because I can get a Thunderbolt 3 enclosure from OWC very cheap ($50 or so). And a Thunderbolt 3 drive for about $150 from OWC. But its pointless to buy either if specific Thunderbolt 3 drives are necessary to make this work. I paid about $80 for the 500GB USB-C drive (WD My Passport SSD), and the drive inside is a M.2 NVM SSD, so it's removable (found teardown page for it). $80 is pretty reasonable for a 500Gb M.2 SSD, unless I could be a better performing one for about the same price from NewEgg or elsewhere.

 

[Pressure]

I ask because I can get a Thunderbolt 3 enclosure from OWC very cheap ($50 or so). And a Thunderbolt 3 drive for about $150 from OWC. But its pointless to buy either if specific Thunderbolt 3 drives are necessary to make this work. I paid about $80 for the 500GB USB-C drive (WD My Passport SSD), and the drive inside is a M.2 NVM SSD, so it's removable (found teardown page for it). $80 is pretty reasonable for a 500Gb M.2 SSD, unless I could be a better performing one for about the same price from NewEgg or elsewhere.

Have in mind that the cheaper OWC TB3 enclosure is limited by design to x2 PCIe v3 lanes (~1500MB/s).

 

[mikeboss]

the OWC enclosure tops out at approximately 1.5 GB/s
the NVMe SSD in the WD USB you mentioned is a WD blue SN550 and it costs about USD 50
the G-DRIVE Mobile Pro SSD goes up to 2.8 GB/s

 

[Luposian]

I just want a working solution (USB-C or Thunderbolt 3)... speed is not a concern right at this point.

 

[norbinhouston]

You want a working solution, you got one. Buy a thunderbolt drive if you don't want to wait for the Apple update. Or wait for the update.

 

[Tech198]

Whether it's possible or not I don't think Apple's staff are likely to instruct you how to disable SIP to then enable booting from external devices.
Just my thoughts on the subject (unless I'm missing something).

Disabling SIP is not hard... There are instructions online to tell you how to do it... Unless something has changed,the same command should work in Big Sur.

 

[Quackers]

Disabling SIP is not hard... There are instructions online to tell you how to do it... Unless something has changed,the same command should work in Big Sur.

I know
I think the OP tried that. I'm not sure things are working how they will do eventually.

 

[smoking monkey]

In a previous thread the OP stated he was doing this to preserve the condition of the internal drive so resale value would be better. But as he was explained on that thread by other posters, his idea wasn't going to work in real life as nobody is going to believe that's the case and pay extra for his 2nd hand M1 Mini.

He also stated that he wanted something more secure and was worried if the internal failed, the entire machine was rendered useless. I understand this point. Not something I personally would worry about, but I get that it is a concern to some.

So the OP is already 80 dollars in the hole and it could be 100s more to enact his plan. That's going to be way more than any extra dollars he would have got from a sale. So at this point only the 2nd reason stands for the OP to continue on this journey. And that's fair enough.

But will an external ever be as fast as an internal with the M architecture? I don't know that answer. Perhaps others do know. If not, it kind of defeats the purpose of M1 in a way, doesn't it?

 

[mwidjaya]

But will an external ever be as fast as an internal with the M architecture? I don't know that answer. Perhaps others do know. If not, it kind of defeats the purpose of M1 in a way, doesn't it?

Yes, kinda defeats purpose.

In the benchmarks we see the M1 MacBook Air achieving 2190 MB/s write and 2675 MB/s read speeds.

You have to ensure external is as fast. Even if it is, I see other downsides to having an external SSD hang off the M1 at all times.

 

[deeddawg]

Yes, kinda defeats purpose.

In the benchmarks we see the M1 MacBook Air achieving 2190 MB/s write and 2675 MB/s read speeds.

You have to ensure external is as fast. Even if it is, I see other downsides to having an external SSD hang off the M1 at all times.

Think OP is discussing a Mini, so less impactful having an external all the time.

Still a good question w.r.t. matching the speeds of the internal.

Here's my M1 MBP just now. I'm also moving a bunch of data from an external SSD to an external spindle drive via CCC and there's a time machine backup to my NAS underway as well.

 

[dmccloud]

Because as earlier in the thread, thunderbolt drives are seen by macOS as almost (completely?) like the internal drive, USB drives are not. Not proven yet but quite plausible that TB externals will boot while USB won't.

It's not only MacOS that treats USB and Thunderbolt devices differently; Windows 10 does the same thing on those systems that actually support TB3.

 

[Nicole1980]

3 takeaways I have from reading this thread:

1) Making an M1 mac do what you want it to do, and not what APPLE wants you do, is not very easy
2) A lot of people disagree, so by definition, a lot of people have no clue what the hell they're talking about
3) I'm damn glad I still rock an Intel Mac (and Mojave) and have complete control and understanding of how to disable SIP, etc. to bend the OS to my will. Sounds like doing that with an M1 and Big Sur is a major big PITA, if even possible at all.

 

[Jeffrey Sanfilippo]

There have been some changes with external booting mentioned in the release notes for the 11.1 betas. I'd probably just wait until that's released to see if it resolves anything.

Anyone try it yet?

 

[Zazoh]

I’ve climbed a lot of hills, just to see if I could.
I’m not sure this one is worth climbing.

 

[Luposian]

I know
I think the OP tried that. I'm not sure things are working how they will do eventually.

No, I haven't disabled SIP. I don't believe in circumventing the "natural protections" Apple has imbued in the system. I have no problem attempting to "work around" certain limitations, but thwarting SIP seems overkill.

Needless to say, I updated my M1 Mac Mini to 11.1 and it does make some progress in this regard. My external drive is now seen in Recovery mode, but it fails (obviously), because only the System folder has anything in it. Even installing via Recovery mode makes no difference (it just takes longer to reach the same end). I initially tried installing with the 11.1 installer, but figured it failed, because 11.0.1 was still running and maybe there was a conflict. Nope. Even with everything updated, it still fails to install everything. And I don't understand why! It creates the folders... it fills System with the same 6 items, but it leaves the other three folders completely empty! It's not that it CAN'T install to the external USB... it's just not doing it completely. And I don't know why. This is what has me scratching my head. Why should a faster interface work for installing everything as it should, but a slower one doesn't? That just doesn't make any sense! All it's doing is writing slower to a slower device. I'd think that, if Apple only supported installing macOS to Thunderbolt 3 devices, it would simply say, "This is not a Thunderbolt 3 device. We only install to Thunderbolt 3 devices." or somesuch.

 

[norbinhouston]

I saw that someone posted that you need to move the Big Sur installer out of the applications folder before installing it to the external drive. Might be worth a shot.

 

[Luposian]

I saw that someone posted that you need to move the Big Sur installer out of the applications folder before installing it to the external drive. Might be worth a shot.

Now, here's another interesting discovery... I bought a USB 3.1 128GB thumb drive (Memorex; from Target) and a 3.0 Hub. And tried installing Big Sur 11.1 to it... and guess what... it worked! Kinda. ?

It behaved a lot different than with the USB-C drive. And, as the picture attests, it installed more to the folders. But... when all was said and done, it seemed to get into a "boot loop" (white Apple logo and progress bar), where it would go so far and then restart and do it all over again. I'm assuming it shouldn't do this "progress thing" more than once, correct? ?

My USB-C SSD drive also has a USB-A adapter... I wonder if that would make it work?!? It would be a faster/larger device attached to the USB-A port, which seems to have worked better (even if not completely). Any thoughts?

Needless to say, after the "boot loop" scenario, my M1 Mac Mini seemed to have difficulty getting out of that mode, even with the USB drive removed. I go in and "First Aid" all the drives on the internal SSD, to make sure everything is ok, then resorted to specifically selecting "Macintosh HD" as the Startup Disk. That seems to work... weird.

 

[Krevnik]

I'd think that, if Apple only supported installing macOS to Thunderbolt 3 devices, it would simply say, "This is not a Thunderbolt 3 device. We only install to Thunderbolt 3 devices." or somesuch.

I'd agree. For grins, I tried to install to a T5 I had, and it ran fine up until I hit "SDErrorDomain error 104." errors attempting to boot into it.

One interesting thing I saw during the installer is that it asked me to authenticate an "owner" account of the drive, likely for boot security/recovery reasons. That's something that would only really apply to an external drive here, and isn't needed for internal drives (the admin accounts take on this role normally).

I am thinking that Apple whiffed really badly here with some ugly boot security bugs that they haven't yet fixed.

 

[Luposian]

I will let the pic of my post on another thread be the culmination (conclusion) of this thread! AUSA!!!

 

[smoking monkey]

I will let the pic of my post on another thread be the culmination (conclusion) of this thread! AUSA!!!

Dreams do come true. Haha.

I think your persistence will help people looking at doing this. Well done.

 

[The Cockney Rebel]

Ok, so I don’t have my M1 to test yet

HaHa ... Sorry, bud. Had to laugh .

 

[TrueBlou]

HaHa ... Sorry, bud. Had to laugh .

Now that’s just mean

 

[Luposian]

Dreams do come true. Haha.

I think your persistence will help people looking at doing this. Well done.

Yeah, as long as they have an M1 Mac Mini with USB-A ports... I never got my drive to work with USB-C. And I haven’t tried it with my 128Gb USB thumb drive. The thumb drive attempt failed... possibly because of having it connected via a passive USB 3.0 hub and not directly to the USB-A ports on the M1 Mac Mini.