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mikeboss

macrumors 68000
Aug 13, 2009
1,546
862
switzerland
Thanks for clarifying, so last night's test with M1 Mini was with a proper TB external (not the T5 which is USB) ?
That confirms Radus's experience that TB boots and USB doesn't (although there might still be a way of booting USB).

yes, last night I installed macOS onto a Thunderbolt 3 SSD and I was able to boot from the external drive.
installing Big Sur on a SAMSUNG T5 right now. I'm pretty sure this will work... will let you know how it went.

EDIT
yup, this didn't work out... installation onto SAMSUNG T5 did not finish.
 
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Luposian

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 10, 2005
389
258
Not super clear on what you are trying to do.

Create a bootable USB installer?

or

Bootable install of Big Sur on external SSD?

I would think both are possible. Can't think of a reason why not.
Bootable install of Big Sur 11.0.1 on my WD My Passport 500GB SSD (USB-C cable).
 

TrueBlou

macrumors 601
Sep 16, 2014
4,531
3,619
Scotland
Ok, so I don’t have my M1 to test yet :mad: But this is something I’ve been looking into in preparation.

From what I’ve read, on multiple sources, the most reliable way with Thunderbolt, or USB-C. Is to boot into recovery, format/partition your external drive, then install macOS from recovery into the external drive.

Once complete, apparently booting into recovery to select the external to boot from, or selecting it from settings in macOS, are the most reliable ways to boot.

I’m taking it with a pinch of salt until I can try it out for myself, but hopefully it’s that simple.
 

Pressure

macrumors 603
May 30, 2006
5,182
1,545
Denmark
APFS; plain, no encryption or case sensitivity.
Try with HFS instead. I get that error when trying to upgrade to Big Sur on my Mac Pro on a drive already formatted to APFS.

The installation should give you the option to format the drive to APFS.
 

Luposian

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 10, 2005
389
258
Ok, so I don’t have my M1 to test yet :mad: But this is something I’ve been looking into in preparation.

From what I’ve read, on multiple sources, the most reliable way with Thunderbolt, or USB-C. Is to boot into recovery, format/partition your external drive, then install macOS from recovery into the external drive.

Once complete, apparently booting into recovery to select the external to boot from, or selecting it from settings in macOS, are the most reliable ways to boot.

I’m taking it with a pinch of salt until I can try it out for myself, but hopefully it’s that simple.
I have booted into Recovery. Run Disk Utility. Formatted the drive as plain APFS (no encryption/case sensitivity), GUID partition map. Run the Internet Big Sur installer... system spontaneously reboots after it's done installing... and yet, it never boots from that drive and trying to select it in Startup disk yields the "update this version of macOS" error message. It also never shows up directly in Recovery mode, so you can't select it to boot from right off the bat.
 

chrfr

macrumors G5
Jul 11, 2009
13,709
7,279
I have booted into Recovery. Run Disk Utility. Formatted the drive as plain APFS (no encryption/case sensitivity), GUID partition map. Run the Internet Big Sur installer... system spontaneously reboots after it's done installing... and yet, it never boots from that drive and trying to select it in Startup disk yields the "update this version of macOS" error message. It also never shows up directly in Recovery mode, so you can't select it to boot from right off the bat.
There have been some changes with external booting mentioned in the release notes for the 11.1 betas. I'd probably just wait until that's released to see if it resolves anything.
 

Luposian

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 10, 2005
389
258
Try with HFS instead. I get that error when trying to upgrade to Big Sur on my Mac Pro on a drive already formatted to APFS.

The installation should give you the option to format the drive to APFS.
I'm not trying to upgrade. I'm trying to install. And this is an M1 Mac, not an Intel Mac. To my knowledge, the M1 Mac will not boot from a non-APFS filesystem drive. However, I'll be gobsmacked, if I discover it was that simple an answer all this time... ?‍♂️
 

Mechanism

macrumors member
Nov 18, 2020
37
36
That’s the same error message I keep getting, when I switch to the external USB drive (click on padlock to reveal shaded drive), in Startup Disk, and click on Restart.
I worried for a bit that I might have been getting that error because I did the install-to-external-drive on an Intel machine but I presume/hope it's universal now.
 

Quackers

macrumors 68000
Sep 18, 2013
1,938
708
Manchester, UK
Apparently that message about updating the version of macOS can be displayed because Apple's verification was not passed. This validation seems to check Apple hardware (amongst other things) and as your external drive is not "Apple hardware" I'm wondering if this is what's happening.
Just an idea.
Whatever is happening I'd be surprised if it's a permanent problem. Though I have been surprised before :)
 

Luposian

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 10, 2005
389
258
Ok, something is seriously screwed up! I followed all the instructions. I did everything right. But notice something very odd... the first picture is of "Macintosh HD" (the internal SSD in my M1 Mac Mini). The second picture is of my newly formatted (and installed to) 500GB USB-C SSD. Notice something just slightly amiss?

Now, if the drives were identical (content-wise), the issue I and others are having, could be chalked up to a "Apple doesn't support external booting" (it's being prevented in some way). But the external drive doesn't even have a complete install! And, I'm assuming everything gets installed during the initial install process, not some "after process", after the initial install. So, this leads me to wonder if the installer for Big Sur 11.0.1 (for M1 Macs) is seriously pork'd up! :mad:

And, to add insult to injury, attempting to install over the first install (just to see if that would fix the initial install) yields the third picture... and I got this, when I specifically unchecked "Copy user settings...". Doesn't matter... same error message, checked or unchecked.
 

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Jeffrey Sanfilippo

macrumors newbie
Oct 4, 2020
16
7
Ok, something is seriously screwed up! I followed all the instructions. I did everything right. But notice something very odd... the first picture is of "Macintosh HD" (the internal SSD in my M1 Mac Mini). The second picture is of my newly formatted (and installed to) 500GB USB-C SSD. Notice something just slightly amiss?

Now, if the drives were identical (content-wise), the issue I and others are having, could be chalked up to a "Apple doesn't support external booting" (it's being prevented in some way). But the external drive doesn't even have a complete install! And, I'm assuming everything gets installed during the initial install process, not some "after process", after the initial install. So, this leads me to wonder if the installer for Big Sur 11.0.1 (for M1 Macs) is seriously pork'd up! :mad:

And, to add insult to injury, attempting to install over the first install (just to see if that would fix the initial install) yields the third picture... and I got this, when I specifically unchecked "Copy user settings...". Doesn't matter... same error message, checked or unchecked.
At the moment they don't support booting from external drives. They probably won't release it as a feature until the MX/M2 line hits. I'm thinking it wasn't written into the M1 instruction set just yet because the point of the M1 is to get developers moving over to universal Binaries. I wouldn't recommend trying to bypass this though because it could cause problems that could end up bricking your M1. Chromebooks have always ran on ARM and I can remember a netbook ASUS put out running a Intel ARM chip that ran Windows XP. What makes the M1 so special is it's features like it's neural engine and Memory management and it may not be ready to handle things like external booting and eGPUs yet but will in a future update.
 

Luposian

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 10, 2005
389
258
At the moment they don't support booting from external drives. They probably won't release it as a feature until the MX/M2 line hits. I'm thinking it wasn't written into the M1 instruction set just yet because the point of the M1 is to get developers moving over to universal Binaries. I wouldn't recommend trying to bypass this though because it could cause problems that could end up bricking your M1. Chromebooks have always ran on ARM and I can remember a netbook ASUS put out running a Intel ARM chip that ran Windows XP. What makes the M1 so special is it's features like it's neural engine and Memory management and it may not be ready to handle things like external booting and eGPUs yet but will in a future update.
Where does Apple specifically, definitively state this? That they do NOT support external booting on the M1 Macs. I want to see it. Because the lack of consensus is absolutely infuriating. At least, if it's an official line from Apple, let them SAY SO, in print, with NO ambiguity! I'll accept that, even if I don't like it.
 

smoking monkey

macrumors 68020
Mar 5, 2008
2,363
1,508
I HUNGER
After banging my head into a brick wall, for over four different attempts (each time yielding the same result: "your macOS is out of date, update."), talking to an Apple support person in chat (failed yet again), and finally talking to an Apple Tech (I guess) over the phone this morning, the offical word is... "We don't support booting from an external device".

There is one last thing I just tried that failed as well ("restore" from Disk Utility), so I'm just going to return my 500Gb external... I guess it just can't be done. :mad:?
You definitely won't be able to charge more when you sell your M1 now! There goes your devilish plan.

But there is a silver lining. You actually get to use the internal SSD with all its speed benefits.

Seriously though, it does suck though that you can't do it. You went through all that effort. At least your trials will be here for others to be cautioned by.
 
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Mike Boreham

macrumors 68040
Aug 10, 2006
3,916
1,904
UK
Just out of curiosity (trying to understand, not being snarky), why are you trying to do this?

There are many reasons for being able to boot an external drive eg:-
- running an alternative OS build from the one on your internal
- a small "utilities" drive to boot from to apply to the internal. This is something I did for many years but has become increasingly pointless as the only utilities able to do anything useful since APFS are already on a bootable USB installer made with the creatmediainstaller command. Fortunately bootable USB installers do work with M1 Macs.
 

Luposian

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 10, 2005
389
258
Well, 11.1 is now available for install on my M1 Mac Mini. ? *Fingers crossed* hopefully the issue is resolved with this update and the resulting downloadable installer on the App Store.

If anyone else has already installed 11.1 on their M1 Mac, let us know how it went. Not having a bootable external drive, I'm a little leery of possibly "bricking" my M1 with an update, so want to be sure others have done so, successfully, before doing it.
 
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Luposian

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 10, 2005
389
258
I found this on the Carbon Copy Cloner (CCC) Blog...

"Apple Software Restore doesn't yet support the storage in Apple Silicon Macs

In the current shipping version of macOS Big Sur (11.0.1), Apple's
ASR utility cannot replicate the startup disk in an M1-based Mac.
Attempting to do so results in an error:

'Apple System Restore Tool': Source volume format not yet supported in this version of macOS

Apple is aware of the problem and is working towards resolving it for
a future update to macOS. CCC 5.1.23 will automatically perform Data
Volume backups on M1 Macs and avoid any attempts to copy a System volume
on those Macs. When Apple posts an update to macOS that resolves the
ASR problem, we'll post an update to CCC that adds back support for
copying the System volume on these Macs."


This is the closest to an "answer" (more like an explaination) that I have found, for the problem I am having... hopefully it's resolved in 11.1, which is now (today) showing up as available for install on my M1 Mac Mini. ?
 

mikeboss

macrumors 68000
Aug 13, 2009
1,546
862
switzerland
Well, 11.1 is now available for install on my M1 Mac Mini. ? *Fingers crossed* hopefully the issue is resolved with this update and the resulting downloadable installer on the App Store.

If anyone else has already installed 11.1 on their M1 Mac, let us know how it went.

I tried it half an hour ago: does not compute with USB SSD. what are they doing in cupertino???

EDIT
tried it also again with a Thunderbolt 3 SSD: works flawless.
 
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Mike Boreham

macrumors 68040
Aug 10, 2006
3,916
1,904
UK
I found this on the Carbon Copy Cloner (CCC) Blog...

"Apple Software Restore doesn't yet support the storage in Apple Silicon Macs

In the current shipping version of macOS Big Sur (11.0.1), Apple's
ASR utility cannot replicate the startup disk in an M1-based Mac.
Attempting to do so results in an error:

'Apple System Restore Tool': Source volume format not yet supported in this version of macOS

Apple is aware of the problem and is working towards resolving it for
a future update to macOS. CCC 5.1.23 will automatically perform Data
Volume backups on M1 Macs and avoid any attempts to copy a System volume
on those Macs. When Apple posts an update to macOS that resolves the
ASR problem, we'll post an update to CCC that adds back support for
copying the System volume on these Macs."


This is the closest to an "answer" (more like an explaination) that I have found, for the problem I am having... hopefully it's resolved in 11.1, which is now (today) showing up as available for install on my M1 Mac Mini. ?

That is all true, but one of the workarounds to reach a "bootable" clone are to install the system (from Recovery) onto a data only clone as explained here.

I have tried this and it doesn't work. The installer hung and after I had made the attempt my M1 MBA would no longer boot from the internal drive. I had to reinstall from a bootable USB to get it back.

I haven't tried the other, migration based way.
 
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Luposian

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 10, 2005
389
258
I tried it half an hour ago: does not compute with USB SSD. what are they doing in cupertino???

EDIT
tried it also again with a Thunderbolt 3 SSD: works flawless.
Ok, please explain the brand/model of Thunderbolt 3 SSD you're using. Explain steps of how you formatted the drive and installed 11.0.1 to it. Show pictures. The whole kit 'n' kaboodle. With enough irrefutable consensus, from enough Thunderbolt 3 SSD users, I will feel a bit safer investing into a Thunderbolt 3 SSD, though as to why a USB-C drive isn't acceptable, I don't undertand.
 

Mike Boreham

macrumors 68040
Aug 10, 2006
3,916
1,904
UK
......though as to why a USB-C drive isn't acceptable, I don't undertand.
Because as earlier in the thread, thunderbolt drives are seen by macOS as almost (completely?) like the internal drive, USB drives are not. Not proven yet but quite plausible that TB externals will boot while USB won't.
 
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