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Apple partnering with a workstation hardware company would be the ideal solution. Have one dedicated builder of custom systems that support OSX. Even if it was HP or Dell, they make crap PCs, but their workstations are top notch. OSX certified HP Z800 series workstation would be pretty sweet!

I'm afraid that doesn't make sense. If Apple wanted to make that style of workstation... they would. There's nothing HP, Dell, or similar companies have that Apple needs to do this.

It's pretty clear that Apple doesn't make this type of workstation because they don't want to not because they need HP's expertise to do it.

They might change their minds. The nMP form factor is a bet on a new kind of workstation. Ultimately if no one (well, relatively few) wants it they might change their minds.
 
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Does anyone have an idea of how well the nMP has done sales-wise? Haven't heard any clues other than the shortages it went through early on. But hearing what MVC reports about Hollywood pros reaction to nMP isn't encouraging.

My suspicion is that it's way below the baseline cMP sales as pros are either sticking with their cMP (via upgrades) or switching to Windows workstations. Question is will Apple look at those numbers and conclude, "We screwed up, time to go back to the drawing board" (the correct answer) or "Obviously nobody wants a workstation Mac anymore, so let's just make iToys and Macs that are good for Facebook and Youtube". I'm inclined to think it's more of the latter. :(
 
I do not believe is the end of the Mac Pro but I do believe is super expensive and that you could resolve in the mean time with an iMac. But yes, Apple was very optimistic/pretentious with the new mac pro. It is not possible that you needed to spend almost $10K to get an actual super fast computer, that configurations should have cost $6K at the most.
 
Overall the Mac Pro line has made a very healthy profit. I don't know if the 2013 model has, but even if it hasn't, I don't think that would be enough to cut it yet. In 2013 they certainly saw enough reason to build a brand new one, so I'm not even sure Apple is seeing significant year over year decline. What Apple would really have to decide, if the nMP was a failure, is do they abandon the nMP and do something new, or do they just flat out abandon the whole workstation market?

I don't think anyone here actually knows enough to say whether or not Apple considers the Mac Pro profitable.
if it's like X-server...then i'm sure they would officially announce it.
 
It's nothing of the sort. Desktop sales have been declining for a decade now, and it has nothing to do with Apple. Laptops have gotten powerful enough to do most of what desktops used to do, and businesses (which drive the vast majority of computer sales) have responded. Walk into any medium or large company and you will see almost no desktops around. Instead you will find laptops and docking stations and tablets, usually iPads. Apple is merely looking realistically at the industry and responding to where it's going.
Nonsense, Apple took three years of pent up MacPro demand and squandered it on a half-baked design that cut their audience in half. We were poised to buy a half-dozen until the cruel joke that is the nMP was revealed.

Of course the market for Desktops is shrinking, but why shoot yourself in the foot and abandon a loyal, and well paying group of customers. I know, Apple has to devote all its efforts to designing big, fat watches with big, fat margins, that need to charged more often than a Tesla, but there are companies smaller than Apple making and selling excellent workstations for those of us that need them, and they seem to be making a buck.

Maybe you can do your job on an iPad or a 13" laptop, I can't. If Apple doesn't want to do the job of making serious MacPros, they should sell off the division to somebody who can make it thrive. At this point I know I've bought my last one, unless they come up with something better than their current offerings, and I've owned every "high-performance" machine they've ever made.
 
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Of course the market for Desktops is shrinking, but why shoot yourself in the foot and abandon a loyal, and well paying group of customers. I know, Apple has to devote all its efforts to designing big, fat watches with big, fat margins, that need to charged more often than a Tesla, but there are companies smaller than Apple making and selling excellent workstations for those of us that need them, and they seem to be making a buck.

This. Apple definitely made money on the cMP. We know there is money in the workstation market, and so do they. If nMP sales are poor, they're going to try changing things up a few times before giving up.

Longer term, Thunderbolt 3 GPUs may shake things up enough that the workstation market is thinned down to people who need 8 or 12 core CPUs. But that's still speculative.
 
There's nothing HP, Dell, or similar companies have that Apple needs to do this.

They have an existing product line that Apple could more easily adapt for OSX than create a new machine of their own that has a low profit margin. Guys like me want dual procs, PCIe slots, internal storage and OSX. Apple doesn't make the machine we need. Having say an OSX capable Z800 make all the sense for everyone all around.
 
They have an existing product line that Apple could more easily adapt for OSX than create a new machine of their own that has a low profit margin. Guys like me want dual procs, PCIe slots, internal storage and OSX. Apple doesn't make the machine we need. Having say an OSX capable Z800 make all the sense for everyone all around.

Most likely it would never happen. They tried licensing it out once before and effected their sales of their own computers. It would also devalue the brand synonymous with ease of use and stability.
 
Most likely it would never happen. They tried licensing it out once before and effected their sales of their own computers. It would also devalue the brand synonymous with ease of use and stability.

People need to stop talking about an era in which Apple wasn't making billions in revenue from watches, music players, phones, online media distribution, online software sales, and cloud services. These are what made Apple the biggest corporation in the world next to Exxon. And if PC users didn't have access to those iPods and iPhones it would never have happened. Giving those same PC users an OS that integrates them even closer to those devices would create even more revenue...and probably sell more Apple laptops ironically.
 

And that was at a time when Apple made most of their $$$ with computer/peripherals sales. Today, Apple make the big $$$ selling iphones and services (iTunes store). Selling off the desktop business to a partner would make sense. It would even be a good thing hardware wise, bringin much needed diversity instead of a one size fits all approach that Apple as put in place. I understand why they did it, the old pre-Jobs Apple had been hyperactively pumping barely different model of the same mac and confusing the marketplace. But a more open builder could give the user the possibility to diversify according to their needs and not according to some esotéric philosophy.

Another builder could build and sell the "kosher" Apple specified spec machine and other models according to market demands. People who want a "toaster" PC that just work could still buy the "kosher" models. Other more adventurous sort would go with the more open plateform. It would be that partner responsibility to certify the hardware for those "alternative" computers if they want to make them.

The big negative that I can see with those are the Apple Store. It would be a pain for those silly t-shirt wearing sales people working there. Then again, most techies would prefer to shop online than go there an waste time trying to get one sales person to stop fawning over the iPhone and mind the computer shopping customer (I never had a good Apple store experience. All of the time I went there I lost patience after 30 minutes and bought the damn machine online once I got back home).
 
Overall the Mac Pro line has made a very healthy profit.

Profit isn't a probable critical factor. All of Apple products pull a profit; minimally in the 25-30% range. If it didn't have a profit on it they wouldn't sell it. Period.

Two other factors are critical. First, how many they sell. Straight from Steve Jobs on XServe

http://appleinsider.com/articles/10..._says_hardly_anyone_was_buying_apples_xserves

It wasn't "They aren't adding enough profit for the Scrooge McDuck money pit." Not a relevant enough number being bought by customers. The execs at Apple look at sales of everything in a weekly meeting. If Mac Pro fall of the scale of all the other Macs sold, then it is probably on thin ice. That is exactly the zone of "Hardly anyone is buying them..." Apple isn't some boutique hardware vendor out to create products for some sub 1% of the population/market. They have never been that company. They aren't out to sell to everybody either, but there is a huge gap between 'everybody' and 'hardly anyone'.

Second, return on investment and limited resources. If Apple can assign 100 R&D personnel and resources onto a product that creates $1B market with Apple standard margins or similar 100 folks onto a product that creates $500M with Apple standard margins then the first will win.


I don't know if the 2013 model has, but even if it hasn't, I don't think that would be enough to cut it yet. In 2013 they certainly saw enough reason to build a brand new one, so I'm not even sure Apple is seeing significant year over year decline.

The last two quarters of 2014 would have been long enough if they were monitoring weekly year over year numbers. What is harder to tell is what new product lifecycle did they put this on. If on a "do one every 3-4 years" cycle then they'd know there would be substantial declines in the tail 1/3 of that cycle.

It is pretty obvious now the are not trying at all to be on a 1-1.5 year cycle.

What Apple would really have to decide, if the nMP was a failure, is do they abandon the nMP and do something new, or do they just flat out abandon the whole workstation market?

It isn't just Mac Pro. If the Macbooks work but somehow need to keep MBA line up around also there is going to be pressure from the relatively fixed number of Mac rosources available to 'end' another Mac product. Apple has a pretty good track record of as one Mac product line disappears another appears in the line. They overlap sometimes but Apple has kept a relatively constant and limited number of Mac products in the line up.

There are just two iPhone models. Revenues is not a matter of how many models. IPhones 2 , iPods pragmatically down to just one at this point. iPad maybe expanding to just 3. Apple TV may be expanding to 2. 6 mac models is actually outside their norm.

The watch is one of the biggest reality distortion zones they have come up with in a long time. It is the same watch foundation in three different cases. Ive chaffs at being labeled a container designer but that almost exactly what the watch is. Different containers.

I don't think anyone here actually knows enough to say whether or not Apple considers the Mac Pro profitable.

Are there any other products that Apple sells that don't have profit? Profit is the wrong both cares and doesn't care about profit. If it doesn't have any then they just don't even consider it. That's is an easy "No' and it is terminated.
 
Why is it such a slow news day? There's more Windows rumors than Macrumors articles today and we're less than 22 hours to go.
 
PC's were called IBM Clones. Because IBM made so many computers, they sold the laptop part to Lenovo though, IBM made excellent laptops as they were very reliable, ugly but reliable.

Anyway, it would be a shame if the Mac Pro went, I mean from someone like myself I like to be able to fix things, but a superglued iMac doesn't really offer that. A MacBook Pro currently still does, for now. But one day they'll seal the bottom in so you can't take it apart without getting the heatgun out.

I do think the Mac Pro is a Pro machine, but Apple should upgrade it with bigger storage if nothing else.
I just feel as they spent so much on R&D on the new model and have it built in America then it isn't going yet. But alas they don't promote it anymore and they have dropped some of their Pro programmes now.

IBM was just about the largest manufacturer of Computer hardware. Making mainframes system/360, mini computers AS400's, Unix machines RS6000's, and of course PC's before the sold out to Lenovo.
 

Which Jobs promptly nuked when it got completely back in charge. Even Sony, which the previous article says he liked and admired alot, didn't not result in an agreement. Entertaining the notion (maybe even funding a hackintosh R&D project) and actually executing it as a major business strategy are two different things. There are lots of half-baked notions that get nuked at Apple every day. Clones is likely one of those that appear and get nuked on a regular basis.

They all will probably continue to the fail because have a build in presumption that Apple only really wants to work on 'half' of systems. Only do the "OS" and punt the hardware or only do the hardware and punt the "OS". There is little 'value add' contribution to make if strictly segregate yourself into one half or the other. A company can play a volume, economy of scale game to try to stay out in front of the inevitable race to the bottom commoditization, but that really isn't Apple.

If maximizing the hardware for Windows then probably are not maximizing the hardware for OS X ( or iOS ). Windows owns an even larger share of the workstation market than the general PC market. Same is true for Linux. OS X share of workstation market is lower than general classic PC market. The hardware is going to be skewed toward Windows.


Apple pissed around with HP iPods at one point and killed them too after not too long. Newton licensing .. .didn't work. Motorola Phone iTunes .... kill off by iPhone. There are times when Apple has teased at this buy it often was to kickstart/refocus/refactor their own internal solution.
 
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http://architosh.com/2015/09/apples-latest-mac-family-portrait-missing-mac-pro/

I don't know...if it's true or not....but something is wrong behind the scene.

Something is far more wrong with folks common sense......

Trade Shows are not a reasonable sampling environment for judging how Macs are generally used. One substantial criteria for trade shows is the transportation cost. iMac all-in-one monitor, "computer" , etc all in one case. Set up? Super easy plug it in. Even worse if have to negotiate with a union labor to doing anything electrical set-up on the show flow. Simpler is even cheaper in that case.

Disbanded the Mac Pro team. Has there been a permanent Mac Pro team for last 6 years? Whenever Apple overalls Mac product X then mac product Y seems to go stale. MBA go through major changes then maybe Mini stops. iMac major redesign and some other mac goes stale. iOS runs into some major roadblocks and OS X staff get pelled off to fill in iOS gaps. Apple does staffing "rob Peter to pay Paul" on a regular and ongoing basis.

There is a growing amount of evidence that Apple is not trying to update the Mac Pro on a yearly basis. If they are on a every 2 , 3 , or 4 year cycle then probably isn't a permanent team in the usual sense of the connotation. At least at the engineering R&D level. Maybe a full time marketing team but development could mainly be a "hobby" and "in your spare time" project most of the time.

The Mac Pro is probably at best a "hobby product" at this point. Limited possibility it is dead, but there is most likely an expectation mismatch at this point. Some customers thinking it is a robustly staffed , 100% full time project versus a "let's do something 'out of box'/'can't innovate my ass' every couple of years" project.

Further on the mismatched expectations, I think Apple thinks Mac Pro class customers only buy systems every 5-6 years so there is no huge hurry to produce new ones every year. The vast majority of Mac Pro customers aren't going to buy one no matter what Apple does. If customers buy slow then production is adjusted to fit. It isn't purely one sided driven by Apple.

IBM's relationship with Apple is way skewed. That isn't about "heady duty, backend computers". It is about mainstream business computer desktops and laptops. IBM manages those for business as an outsourcing contractor. They can actually do bulk buys on behalf of customers too. Those large blocks of Macs that IBM is buying is probably primarily for customers and IBM then does a healthy share of managing those. Same thing with iiPads and iPhones. Business tools handed out to mainstream business folks for mainstream business function. The Mac Pro would be a very tiny slice of that. It is neither necessary or required for the IBM deal. So it not being a prominent feature of the IBM deal means exceedingly little. It isn't "news" or "informative" of the Mac Pro's future in any significant way.


The vast majority of the Workstation market has been and still is Windows. HP and Dell have around 90% of the market. There is not huge stampede out of OS X into Windows. Windows always was there for over a decade (if not two).


There is no top level pointer to the iPods and yet Apple just updated the iPod Touch. The renew cycle is somewhat ridiculously slow but huge leaps from "low common denominator" Apple marketing pages aren't really good at producing deep insight into what Apple is doing other than marketing to the lowest common denominator customers.
 
If Apple can assign 100 R&D personnel and resources onto a product that creates $1B market with Apple standard margins or similar 100 folks onto a product that creates $500M with Apple standard margins then the first will win.

So employ 200 people and do both for $1.5 billion with Apple standard margins.
 
Has there been a permanent Mac Pro team for last 6 years?

There actually has been, but I think you're right, moving engineers elsewhere doesn't really signify much. The delays in Broadwell make it really silly to keep a dedicated team around right now.

Apple isn't some boutique hardware vendor out to create products for some sub 1% of the population/market.

I think in some cases Apple is totally willing to be. If Apple cuts the Mac Pro, are production houses going to be willing to buy HP desktops and Apple laptops? They're centralize their vendors and buy everything from HP.

The Mac Pro is more than a line item. It underwrites other products that Apple makes. You need a machine for developers to keep writing for the Mac and iOS (hence the WWDC introduction). You need a high end desktop to keep workstation places buying your other products, like laptops. You need a machine that can double as a decent server (NOT the dual core Mini) to support other Mac purchases.

The reason the Mac Pro sticks around, beyond profit, if because Apple is vertically integrated. You take out one floor the building, and the whole building might come down slowly.

It's Apple's equivalent of a razor handle. You're not going to sell very many. You probably won't make much money off them. But it's going to help you sell a lot more blades.
 
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So employ 200 people and do both for $1.5 billion with Apple standard margins.

Engaging nine women doesn't get you a better baby in a one month. Apple is not trying to employ as many people as possible. If controlling for the quality of folks bringing in and the culture of the organization then there are pragmatic rates of expansion even a company like Apple can work at. The other issue is that some functionality funnels back into core corporate infrastructure. Marketing, industrial design , there are a number of choke points inside of organizations.

So it is a decision about what to do with a relatively fixed set of resources. Waving your hands about infinite resources available at any time is not reality for vast majority of businesses.
 
Partnering with a single PC manufacture is much different then licensing it out to anyone who wants to use MacOSX. Even if that went through very possible Apple would restrict on what hardware it would go on to make it stable as possible.
 
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The reason the Mac Pro sticks around, beyond profit, if because Apple is vertically integrated. You take out one floor the building, and the whole building might come down slowly.

It's Apple's equivalent of a razor handle. You're not going to sell very many. You probably won't make much money off them. But it's going to help you sell a lot more blades.

Ding, ding, ding. This is exactly it. And sure, there are apps that you can reliably kick out and maintain on iMac-class hardware. But the big dogs that you still want sitting at the table (Adobe, Microsoft, Game Devs, etc) look to Mac Pro-class hardware to do their job. And to be blunt, is it cheaper to keep producing Mac Pros, or deal with gaping holes in your 3rd party software lineup? That's a secondary cost one has to keep in mind.
 
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Don't you guys think that if Apple would be supposed to discontinue the Mac Pro, they would already did that? They were waiting for TB3 technology, and new CPUs along with DDR4, Fiji GPUs. There is a lot of reason why to stick with Mac Pro computer, and there is a lot of technology and ideas of using that technology to come out, especially for VR.

Look at what is capable one Fiji GPU in VR: https://twitter.com/missquickstep/status/637478111957815296

In Mac Pro potentially there will be two Fiji GPUs. Imagine sharing VR experience with your family - done on one single computer.
 
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