Lost Mine of Phandelver Support Thread

[Huntn]

Eventually I'll appear as a 2nd Dwarf Cleric.... Here is the basic list of of cantrips and spells. I propose to prepare the purple spells. But as usual, I have questions:

1. Two of the spells are listed as "bonus actions". Obviously they won't do me much good if I can't use them. What typically triggers the ability to perform a bonus action?
2. I also have a question about Initiative, which controls the order that players take actions. One of the spells that the Cleric Dwarf has is "bless" which appears to be very handy. Ready about it below. However, this is where the initiative question comes in. To be effective, Bless, would be cast first so that other players would benefit from this spell in their attack rolls, however this would have to be coordinated so it is cast first. If the Cleric does not end up in the first initiative slot, could other players give up their initiative letting the cleric go first, but not lose their turns for that round?
3. Looking at the on-going Goblin attack scenario, I think Thaumaturgy might be handy too as a distraction.

Here is the description about Initiative from basic rules:
Initiative
Initiative determines the order of turns during combat.
When combat starts, every participant makes a Dexterity
check to determine their place in the initiative order.
The DM makes one roll for an entire group of identical
creatures, so each member of the group acts at the
same time.
The DM ranks the combatants in order from the one
with the highest Dexterity check total to the one with
the lowest. This is the order (called the initiative order)
in which they act during each round. The initiative order
remains the same from round to round.
If a tie occurs, the DM decides the order among
tied DM-controlled creatures, and the players decide
the order among their tied characters. The DM can
decide the order if the tie is between a monster and a
player character. Optionally, the DM can have the tied
characters and monsters each roll a d20 to determine the
order, highest roll going first.

-Cleric L1 Spell List (Basic Rules v0.3, p82)
Proposed Spells to Prepare are Purple
Scenario Started With Blue Spells

Cantrips (0 Level)
* Guidance
* Light (Cantrip, touch, 1 action, lasts 1 hr, components V&M?, any object no larger than 10’ any dimensions will shed bright light (any color) for a 20’ radius, and dim light for an additional 20’. Completely covering the object with something opaque blocks the light. The spell ends if you cast it again or dismiss it as an action. The spell ends if you cast it again or dismiss it as an action. If you target an object held or worn by a hostile creature, that creature must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw to avoid the spell.

* Resistance

* Sacred Flame (Cantrip, Ranged 60’, 1 action, Component V&S, Instantaneous. Flame-like radiance descends on a creature that you can see within range. The target must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or take 1d8 radiant damage. The target gains no benefit from cover for this saving throw.

* Spare the Dying

* Thaumaturgy ( Cantrip, Ranged 30’, 1 action, Components V, Duration 1 min.)
- You manifest a minor wonder, a sign of supernatural power, within range. You create one of the following magical effects within range:
Your voice booms up to three times as loud as normal for 1 minute.
You cause flames to flicker, brighten, dim, or change color for 1 minute.
You cause harmless tremors in the ground for 1 minute.
You create an instantaneous sound that originates from a point of your choice within range, such as a rumble of thunder, the cry of a raven, or ominous whispers.
You instantaneously cause an unlocked door or window to fly open or slam shut.
You alter the appearance of your eyes for 1 minute.
If you cast this spell multiple times, you can have up to three of its 1-minute effects active at a time, and you can dismiss such an effect as an action.
Spellcasting Ability- (Character sheet) Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for your spells. The saving throw DC to resist a spell you cast is 13. Your attack bonus when you make an attack with a spell is +5. See the rulebook for rules oncasting your spells.
Prepared Spells are Purple
Started Scenario With Blue Spells

1st Level Spells
* Bless- (1 action, components V+S+M, up to 3 targets, ranged 30’, lasts 1 min, enhances target’s attack by d4 added to their Attack Roll of Saving throw).
* Command- (60’ command a target)
* Cure Wounds (touch, 1action, components V &S?, target regains 1d8+3 (Wisdom modifier).
* Detect Magic
* Guiding Bolt- (1 action, ranged 120 feet, Components V&S, target takes 4d6 radiant damage, the next attack roll against this target before the end of your next turn has advantage.) <--by someone else?
* Healing Word (single target, 1 bonus action, instantaneous, ranged 60 feet, regains 1d4+ spellcasting ability modifier (Wisdom +3).
* Inflict Wounds (touch, 1sec, 1 action, target takes 3d10 necrotic damage.)
Sanctuary- Protects a target.
* Shield of Faith- (1 bonus action, duration up to 10 min, ranged 60’, Protects a target with a +2 Bonus to AC for duration.

by the 5e rules, initiative cannot be switched around. the order determined stays what is determined by the dice rolls.
however, like almost everything in this game, things can be flexible, and ravenvii -as the DM- has already allowed it to work that way in this game, so it would be possible.

even if it wasn't, since the spell lasts 1' and each 'action' lasts approximately 6 sec (including the bad guys actions) even if it is cast not as first, it would still affect the adventurers' actions in the next round, or possibly two rounds


a bonus action is just that, something you can do -once per turn- as a bonus, in addition top your regular action.
so a bonus spell can always be used in addition to another spell or action in the same turn, provided you have the slot available for it

of note, cantrips you know are cantrips you know, you can never change those during the game (but you can learn more).
for spells, unlike for wizards, EVERY spell in the book is available to you, and you can pick whichever you want to prepare

for now:


0 Level (Cantrips)

Guidance
Light
Resistance
Sacred Flame
Thaumaturgy

1st Level

Bless
Command
Cure Wounds
Detect Magic
Guiding Bolt
Healing Word
Inflict Wounds
Sanctuary
Shield of Faith

Question, see my post above: Healing Word and Shield of Faith, can they be used as a bonus action or grant a bonus action? FYI to @Moyank24, @Don't panic, @Plutonius, @Scepticalscribe, and last but not least @twietee.

I think it was mentioned in the game thread, but can be bonus turns be used once a turn, once a fight, or once a day? DP answered this...

Unless someone says different, I'm going with the 4 prepared spells in pink above, my quoted post above, but am happy to change if there is a reason not to use these. Thanks.

 

[A.Goldberg]

I don't mean to interrupt, but what exactly this all about? Skimming through this thread I feel as if I am lost in the "Lost Mines of Phandever" myself.. Whatever or wherever that is. This is all very alien to me. What am I missing?

 

[Huntn]

@ravenvii, @Plutonius, and @Don't panic, this may be a stupid question, but My impression in rolls, only the skill modifier is used or am I confused about that? For an example in an attack roll with a melee weapon, the strength or is it the strength modifier that is used in the calculation? Is a skill level itself used in any rolls?

Dexterity (Stealth) Check- Goblins hiding. Roll d20 for all of them + 6 Stealth Skill (from character sheet) = a number. Compare the Party’s Passive Wisdom Perception Score individually (as listed on character sheet). If the Party member's Passive Wisdom matches the Goblin score, they are seen. Is there a difference in how this is calculated if the party is unaware vs suspecting someone is there and looking for them? According to this article, it does not matter if you are aware or not. How does Cover come into this calculation? The article I linked says that if the party is obscured by light foliage, those trying to detect them roll at disadvantage. Trying to find that in the rules.

However the Basic Rules p74 speaks of Cover, and my impression this is only used as far as calculating damage with an attack after the target is seen. Any words of clarification would be appreciated.

I don't mean to interrupt, but what exactly this all about? Skimming through this thread I feel as if I am lost in the "Lost Mines of Phandever" myself.. Whatever or wherever that is. This is all very alien to me. What am I missing?

Lol, @ravenvii suggested a Dungeon and Dragon game held within this Forum- [DD]Lost Mine of Phandelver that started a couple of weeks ago. Since I knew little about D&D at the start, and am planning on joining, because one of the original participants dropped out, and knew I would have bunches of technical questions (like the one above), I started this thread so as not to clutter up the other thread.

 

[Huntn]

For a cleric dwarf, I'm deciding which spells I want. I read this:
Bonus Action (BasicRules v0.3,p69) You can take a bonus action only when a special ability, spell, or other feature of the game states that you can do something as a bonus action. You otherwise don’t have a bonus action to take. You can take only one bonus action on your turn, so you must choose which bonus action to use when you have more than one available.

and this spell:
Healing Word
1st-level evocation
Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V
Duration: Instantaneous
A creature of your choice that you can see within range
regains hit points equal to 1d4 + your spellcasting
ability modifier.

What does bonus action mean for this spell? The spell grants a bonus action, ie 2 actions in one turn? Or the spell can be used as a special action when a bonus action is granted?

 

[Don't panic]

For a cleric dwarf, I'm deciding which spells I want. I read this:
Bonus Action (BasicRules v0.3,p69) You can take a bonus action only when a special ability, spell, or other feature of the game states that you can do something as a bonus action. You otherwise don’t have a bonus action to take. You can take only one bonus action on your turn, so you must choose which bonus action to use when you have more than one available.

and this spell:
Healing Word
1st-level evocation
Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V
Duration: Instantaneous
A creature of your choice that you can see within range
regains hit points equal to 1d4 + your spellcasting
ability modifier.

What does bonus action mean for this spell? The spell grants a bonus action, ie 2 actions in one turn? Or the spell can be used as a special action when a bonus action is granted?

my take is that the use of the spell is a bonus action, meaning you can use it in a turn while also using a regular action (like using a weapon). however, the regular action cannot be another regular spell (but it can be a cantrip).

from the PHB:

"A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven’t already taken a bonus action this turn. You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."​

 

[Huntn]

my take is that the use of the spell is a bonus action, meaning you can use it in a turn while also using a regular action (like using a weapon). however, the regular action cannot be another regular spell (but it can be a cantrip).

from the PHB:

"A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven’t already taken a bonus action this turn. You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."​

@Don't panic, @ravenvii, @Moyank24, @Scepticalscribe, @twietee
I find what the manual says to be confusing. Not arguing, but I've not found a rule that prevents you from using a spell + a bonus spell in one round, while acknowledging you are ultimately limited by spell slots between periods of 8 hrs rest. So the proper way to describe it could be (my words):

Each round consists of a move, the length not to exceed the character’s speed (and can be split up), an attack, and a tandem (free) action- which consists of things like (BRv0.3p70):
-draw or sheathe a sword
-open or close a door
-withdraw a potion from your backpack
-pick up a dropped axe
-Yell a warning (I added, thanks Plutonius!)
- etc, etc, it's a long list (Basic Rules v0.3, p70)

However, additional actions may be generated as follows- a Bonus Action (if you have an action listed as a bonus), a Reaction* (if an action against you enables a reaction), and an Opportunity Attack (if an enemy action enables one).

*Still working on Reaction.

Thoughts? Thanks!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

@Don't panic, @ravenvii, @Moyank24, @Scepticalscribe, @twietee
I find what the manual says to be confusing. Not arguing, but I've not found a rule that prevents you from using a spell + a bonus spell in one round, while acknowledging you are ultimately limited by spell slots between periods of 8 hrs rest. So the proper way to describe it could be (my words):

Each round consists of a move, the length not to exceed the character’s speed (and can be split up), an attack, and a tandem (free) action- which consists of things like (BRv0.3p70):
-draw or sheathe a sword
-open or close a door
-withdraw a potion from your backpack
-pick up a dropped axe
-Yell a warning (I added, thanks Plutonius!)
- etc, etc, it's a long list (Basic Rules v0.3, p70)

However, additional actions may be generated as follows- a Bonus Action (if you have an action listed as a bonus), a Reaction (if an action against you enables a reaction), and an Opportunity Attack (if an enemy action enables one).

Thoughts? Thanks!

Thoughts? Chess is far easier…….

 

[Huntn]

Thoughts? Chess is far easier…….

To Reinforce the concept, here is my compiled list of combat related moves. However, I'll observe that since this game is forum based without a map per see, distances seem to have been handled casually. Thoughts anyone?

Correction- A Ready Action and Reaction are actions, not moves.

Combat Moves (Basic Rules v0.3,P70,71)
* Normal Move- Move up to distance of speed listed on character sheet
* Difficult Terrain (BRv0.3p64) Costs 2’ for 1’ traveled.
* Standing up from Prone Position (BRv0.3p70)- Costs half your speed allowance.
* Crawling (BRv0.3p71)- 2 for 1’, in Difficult Terrain 3 for 1’.
* Encumbered? (BRv0.3,p60)- When you use this variant, ignore the Strength column of the Armor table in chapter 5.
If you carry weight in excess of 5 times your Strength score, you are encumbered, which means your speed drops by 10 feet.
If you carry weight in excess of 10 times your Strength score, up to your maximum carrying capacity, you are instead heavily encumbered, which means your speed drops by 20 feet and you have disadvantage on ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws that use Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution.
* Breaking Up Your Move- Move + Action; Action + Move; Move + Action + Move as long as it does not exceed total “speed”. Remember speed= movement total for each round.
* Using Different Movement Speeds (BRv0.3p70)- They can only total up to your total move distance for a round. Example of Wizard giving flying speed/longer distance to a character.
* Moving Around Other Creatures (BRv0.3p71)- Can move through a non-hostile creatures space, but a for a hostile creature can only move through their space if they are 2X larger or smaller than you are.
* Dash (BRv0.3p72)- If your normal speed/distance is 30, you can dash 60’ for a turn. Does this effect anything else?
* Disengage (BRv0.3p72)- If you take a Disengagement action, does not provoke Opportunity Attack for rest of turn??
* Dodge (BRv0.3p72)- Intent of Dodge is to avoid being hit. Any attacks against you will be with Disadvantage if you can see the attacker. You can make a Dexterity (Saving Throw) with Advantage to avoid being hit. Benefit is lost if you are incapacitated or speed drops to 0.
* Help (BRv0.3p72)- If you offer help to another character within 5’ of you to complete a task. Target of help gains Advantage on their next Ability Check as long as it happens before the next round. Feint, distract, or other to make attack more effective.
* Hide (BRv0.3p72)- Make a Dexterity (Stealth) check in an attempt to hide. See BR Chap 7 for hiding and benefits.
* Ready Action (BRv0.3p72)- One Reaction Per round. Casting time of 1 action Taking an action at the response to a trigger.
Examples include “If the cultist steps on the trapdoor, I’ll pull the lever that opens it,” and “If the goblin steps next to me, I move away.”
* One Reaction Per round. When the trigger occurs, you can either take your reaction right after the trigger finishes or ignore the trigger. Remember that you can take only one reaction per round. (need reference for this).
When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of 1 action.
* Search (BRv0.3,p74)- When you take the Search action, you devote your attention to finding something. Depending on the nature of your search, the DM might have you make a Wisdom (Perception) check or an Intelligence (Investigation) check.

 

[Don't panic]

@Don't panic, @ravenvii, @Moyank24, @Scepticalscribe, @twietee
I find what the manual says to be confusing. Not arguing, but I've not found a rule that prevents you from using a spell + a bonus spell in one round, while acknowledging you are ultimately limited by spell slots between periods of 8 hrs rest. So the proper way to describe it could be (my words):

Each round consists of a move, the length not to exceed the character’s speed (and can be split up), an attack, and a tandem (free) action- which consists of things like (BRv0.3p70):
-draw or sheathe a sword
-open or close a door
-withdraw a potion from your backpack
-pick up a dropped axe
-Yell a warning (I added, thanks Plutonius!)
- etc, etc, it's a long list (Basic Rules v0.3, p70)

However, additional actions may be generated as follows- a Bonus Action (if you have an action listed as a bonus), a Reaction* (if an action against you enables a reaction), and an Opportunity Attack (if an enemy action enables one).

*Still working on Reaction.

Thoughts? Thanks!

you are confusing a round with a turn. a turn is your block of action/moves. a round is a series of turns for everyone in the party+ monsters.

as for the specific bonus spell question: form the handbook, cited in my post above (and quoted by your own post):
"You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."
it seems pretty straightforward to me

as far as some of the other points, (and here i am giving my own opinions on the matter) not all the rules must or should be equally enforced, especially at the beginner's level.
The game certainly could be run as a very complex and detailed (fictional) life simulation. but it doesn't have to be so necessarily.
some simplifications just enhance the fluidity of the game, and the fun.
for examples, encumbered, arrows accounting, prone, drinking and eating, down-time, are some instances of rules that are often ignored in the name of running a smoother game.
at the end,it is entirely up to the DM to decide what to rules enforce and not to enforce, as long as it is done fairly and consistently (with the occasional fiddling), in a way that plays best with the group at hand. Remember that the DM is not a player in the game, much less an adversary. The characters are not trying to 'beat' the DM, nor vice-versa. The DM is more like a referee, who enables the characters to go adventuring, and resolves the ensuing conflicts.
And, as in everything, common sense should be the brightest guiding line

 

[Huntn]

you are confusing a round with a turn. a turn is your block of action/moves. a round is a series of turns for everyone in the party+ monsters.

as for the specific bonus spell question: form the handbook, cited in my post above (and quoted by your own post):
"You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."
it seems pretty straightforward to me

as far as some of the other points, (and here i am giving my own opinions on the matter) not all the rules must or should be equally enforced, especially at the beginner's level.
The game certainly could be run as a very complex and detailed (fictional) life simulation. but it doesn't have to be so necessarily.
some simplifications just enhance the fluidity of the game, and the fun.
for examples, encumbered, arrows accounting, prone, drinking and eating, down-time, are some instances of rules that are often ignored in the name of running a smoother game.
at the end,it is entirely up to the DM to decide what to rules enforce and not to enforce, as long as it is done fairly and consistently (with the occasional fiddling), in a way that plays best with the group at hand. Remember that the DM is not a player in the game, much less an adversary. The characters are not trying to 'beat' the DM, nor vice-versa. The DM is more like a referee, who enables the characters to go adventuring, and resolves the ensuing conflicts.
And, as in everything, common sense should be the brightest guiding line

Not intentionally because you only get one "turn" per "round", but I agree "turn" should be used instead.
I understand that an attack can be either be a physical or magical, and that certain circumstances may allow for for an extra action like an Opportunity Attack in a single turn.

But for spells the number of spell slots in a day (defined by a rest period) limit spell casting, and that if only one spell can be cast per turn, without a better explanation, the term "bonus action" applied to a spell appears to be a misnomer, because I have two spells as a dwarf cleric that in the description are described as "bonus". However, I don't yet see under what circumstance the term "bonus" applies to spells. That is the answer I'm looking for.
Thanks for the help!

 

[Don't panic]

Not intentionally because you only get one "turn" per "round", but I agree "turn" should be used instead.
I understand that an attack can be either be a physical or magical, and that certain circumstances may allow for for an extra action like an Opportunity Attack in a single turn.

But for spells the number of spell slots in a day (defined by a rest period) limit spell casting, and that if only one spell can be cast per turn, without a better explanation, the term "bonus action" applied to a spell appears to be a misnomer, because I have two spells as a dwarf cleric that in the description are described as "bonus". However, I don't yet see under what circumstance the term "bonus" applies to spells. That is the answer I'm looking for.
Thanks for the help!

you can use your "bonus spell" whenever your other action is not another spell, provided you still have a slot for it.
only "bonus spells" can be used as bonus spells.

 

[Huntn]

you can use your "bonus spell" whenever your other action is not another spell, provided you still have a slot for it.
only "bonus spells" can be used as bonus spells.

And when can bonus spells be used? I'm sorry if this is a repeat, but I'm having difficulty understanding the differences, such as what defines a bonus spell, and what criteria is required for a bonus spell to be used?

As this is text communicating I want to be sure you that you don't consider this a challenge, but me trying to understand a poorly written manual. (It's pretty bad.) I also realize that I'm probably repeating myself, but I'm looking for a definition and/or better understanding of the utilization of a bonus as compared to a regular spell. I also think you could get tired of answering these kinds of questions so let me know if you are getting fatigued. Any recommendations for a good D&D forum? That said...

From the Dwarf Character Sheet:
*Spell Slots- You have two 1st-level spell slots
you can use to cast your prepared spells.
*Prepared Spells- You prepare four 1st-level
spells to make them available for you to
cast, choosing from the cleric spell list in the
rule book.
* In addition, you always have two
domain spells prepared: bless and cure wounds.

What I think I understand: 4 prepared spells per day. As a L1 character 2 spells cast per day total
... unless maybe after casting two regular spells in the first two turns of an encounter, a bonus spell (by virtue of the bonus designation) could be cast in the third round of a fight or thrown into the mix to really be able to cast 3 spells in a day? If this is the case, too bad I can't find this in the frick'n manual.

- As a Cleric I can prepare 4 spells for use in a day. They must be prepared to use them.
- By virtue of having 2 spell slots I can cast 2 spells total in a day, regardless of encounter/rounds (8 hrs of rest is required to renew spell casting.)
- In a single turn, I can take 1 move (although the move can be split into 2 parts) and make 1 attack, which might be a spell (but still limited by 2 spells total cast per day.)

Questions
* I'm looking for info on domain spells as mentioned above as to they are always prepared. Not asking for an explanation from you unless you are familiar.

* Look at the following two spells (taken from the Basic rules v0.3 Chapter 11, starting on page 80.) They both have "1 bonus action" listed in the description. Again sorry if this is a repeat, but the last answer did not get me over the hump.
-Are these bonus spells?
-Can they only be cast as a bonus spell or do casting these spells grant a bonus action?
-What is the circumstance that allows bonus spells to be cast that differentiate them from regular spells? IOW, can I choose a bonus or regular spell anytime I want to?
-Must a bonus spell be prepared or is it always ready?
-How does the use of a bonus spell come into play outside of the restrictions listed above of "2 spells cast per day"?

-Healing Word (single target, 1 bonus action, instantaneous, ranged 60 feet, regains 1d4+ spellcasting ability modifier (Wisdom +3).
-Shield of Faith (1 bonus action, duration up to 10 min, ranged 60’, Protects a target with a +2 Bonus to AC for duration.

 

[Don't panic]

And when can bonus spells be used? I'm sorry if this is a repeat, but I'm having difficulty understanding the differences, such as what defines a bonus spell, and what criteria is required for a bonus spell to be used?

As this is text communicating I want to be sure you that you don't consider this a challenge, but me trying to understand a poorly written manual. (It's pretty bad.) I also realize that I'm probably repeating myself, but I'm looking for a definition and/or better understanding of the utilization of a bonus as compared to a regular spell. I also think you could get tired of answering these kinds of questions so let me know if you are getting fatigued. Any recommendations for a good D&D forum? That said...

From the Dwarf Character Sheet:
*Spell Slots- You have two 1st-level spell slots
you can use to cast your prepared spells.
*Prepared Spells- You prepare four 1st-level
spells to make them available for you to
cast, choosing from the cleric spell list in the
rule book.
* In addition, you always have two
domain spells prepared: bless and cure wounds.

What I think I understand: 4 prepared spells per day. As a L1 character 2 spells cast per day total
... unless maybe after casting two regular spells in the first two turns of an encounter, a bonus spell (by virtue of the bonus designation) could be cast in the third round of a fight or thrown into the mix to really be able to cast 3 spells in a day? If this is the case, too bad I can't find this in the frick'n manual.

- As a Cleric I can prepare 4 spells for use in a day. They must be prepared to use them.
- By virtue of having 2 spell slots I can cast 2 spells total in a day, regardless of encounter/rounds (8 hrs of rest is required to renew spell casting.)
- In a single turn, I can take 1 move (although the move can be split into 2 parts) and make 1 attack, which might be a spell (but still limited by 2 spells total cast per day.)

Questions
* I'm looking for info on domain spells as mentioned above as to they are always prepared. Not asking for an explanation from you unless you are familiar.

* Look at the following two spells (taken from the Basic rules v0.3 Chapter 11, starting on page 80.) They both have "1 bonus action" listed in the description. Again sorry if this is a repeat, but the last answer did not get me over the hump.
-Are these bonus spells?
-Can they only be cast as a bonus spell or do casting these spells grant a bonus action?
-What is the circumstance that allows bonus spells to be cast that differentiate them from regular spells? IOW, can I choose a bonus or regular spell anytime I want to?
-Must a bonus spell be prepared or is it always ready?
-How does the use of a bonus spell come into play outside of the restrictions listed above of "2 spells cast per day"?

-Healing Word (single target, 1 bonus action, instantaneous, ranged 60 feet, regains 1d4+ spellcasting ability modifier (Wisdom +3).
-Shield of Faith (1 bonus action, duration up to 10 min, ranged 60’, Protects a target with a +2 Bonus to AC for duration.

i am not sure i follow, but a bonus spell is a spell decribed as a bonus spell in its language.
Healing Word is a bonus (action) spell. it can only be cast as a bonus action
Guiding Bolt is a regular (action) spell. it cannot be cast as a bonus action

 

[Huntn]

i am not sure i follow, but a bonus spell is a spell decribed as a bonus spell in its language.
Healing Word is a bonus (action) spell. it can only be cast as a bonus action
Guiding Bolt is a regular (action) spell. it cannot be cast as a bonus action

Sorry, I seem to be a bit dense on this subject. So, why is a bonus spell considered a bonus? Can you describe an example of when a bonus action can be cast versus a regular action, and what distinguishes one from the other?

Maybe this is a fundamental misunderstanding on my part. I'm assuming that a bonus spell or bonus action is something by virtue of the bonus label that can be performed as a bonus, something extra, like a bonus turn, except this is a bonus spell or physical attack (something extra) performed during your turn, in addition to what you can normally do.

Are you saying the bonus label is not about how it's utilized but just the fact that you have it in your inventory as an extra item? So what is the rule for using one of these spells? Obviously I need to find a section of the manual that describes what should be a fairly basic idea.

 

[Don't panic]

in each turn you have a normal action and you MAY have a bonus action, depending on circumstances.
these can be a special ability characteristic to a character/class/race (e.g. i have Second Wind, which I can use as a bonus action, Portia will have Cunning Action when she reaches level 2), or something that comes with an object or a spell.

As a cleric, you have access to a few spells that are used as bonus actions. This is intrinsic to the spell and specifically described as such. These spells are always and only used as bonus actions. They behave like every other spell as far as slots, preparation, etc., the only difference is that they do not use up your regular action for casting.

On the other hand, if a spell does not specify "1 bonus action" in its casting time description, it is used (always) as a normal action, and never as a bonus action [at least at this level, it is possible that at higher level one gets an ability/feat/magic item allowing them to cast a normal spell as a bonus action, but that would be a special case].

the only limit to the bonus action spells, is that when you do it, your regular action cannot be another slot-using spell (thus it can be a cantrip)

 

[Huntn]

@Don't panic, @ravenvii, @Moyank24, @Scepticalscribe, @twietee

I know you guys are in the heat of battle somewhere in a cave, but when you have a chance, am looking for some advice for a new Cleric.
Of all the list of spells available to a L1 Cleric, I all ready know are shown as bold, but by virtue of ** will prepare 4 more. I've selected 3 spells, but am open to changing those as I look at Sanctuary and Shield of Faith, seeking advice if a Cleric should have these versus the two damage spells I've picked?
Thanks!

Cleric L1 Spell List
Level 0 Cantrips Summaries- You know the following (bold) and can cast them at will.
*Guidance- Touch, buff + d4 to Ability Roll.
* Light- Touch, Illum object for 1 hr.
* Resistance- Touch. Buff to +d4 to saving throw of its choice.
* Sacred Flame- Ranged 60’ 1d8 radiant damage Damage, target does not benefit from cover.
* Spare the Dying- Touch. Stabilize character with zero HP.
* Thaumaturgy- Ranged 30. Used to project distractions.

1st Level Spells **= plan on preparing
* Bless- Buff 3 creatures attack rolls. (Described as domain spell always available)
* Cure Wounds- Touch, heal = 1d8 + your spellcasting ability modifier. (Described as domain spell always available)
** Guiding Bolt- Ranged 120’ = 4d6 radiant damage
** Healing Word- Ranged 60’ heal HP= 1d4 + your spell casting ability modifier
** Inflict Wounds- melee (touch)= 3d10 necrotic damage
______________________________
?????- one more
* Command- Command a creature if he can’t win a Wisdom Saving Throw.
* Detect Magic- Ranged 30’. Detect magic creature or object.
* Sanctuary- Ranged 30’ Protection ward for 1 target, To hit protected target, aggressor must make a Wisdom Saving Throw. If fails, creature can target another party member. Does not protect from area effects.
* Shield of Faith- Ranged Buff 60’. A shimmering field appears and surrounds target, granting it a +2 bonus to AC for the duration.
[doublepost=1457575043][/doublepost]

in each turn you have a normal action and you MAY have a bonus action, depending on circumstances.
these can be a special ability characteristic to a character/class/race (e.g. i have Second Wind, which I can use as a bonus action, Portia will have Cunning Action when she reaches level 2), or something that comes with an object or a spell.

As a cleric, you have access to a few spells that are used as bonus actions. This is intrinsic to the spell and specifically described as such. These spells are always and only used as bonus actions. They behave like every other spell as far as slots, preparation, etc., the only difference is that they do not use up your regular action for casting.

On the other hand, if a spell does not specify "1 bonus action" in its casting time description, it is used (always) as a normal action, and never as a bonus action [at least at this level, it is possible that at higher level one gets an ability/feat/magic item allowing them to cast a normal spell as a bonus action, but that would be a special case].

the only limit to the bonus action spells, is that when you do it, your regular action cannot be another slot-using spell (thus it can be a cantrip)

I think I'm getting it finally. Thanks for your help. Wait to you see my quick ref guide that is becoming quite large.

 

[Don't panic]

Honestly, it doesn't matter that much, since every day you can change your selection of spells, pick whatever you fancy most, you can always change the selection 'tomorrow'

One thing you can NOT change is cantrips.
You get to pick i think 3 (certainly not all) and you stay stuck with those for good. You can add some as you level up, but you can't change them.

 

[Huntn]

Honestly, it doesn't matter that much, since every day you can change your selection of spells, pick whatever you fancy most, you can always change the selection 'tomorrow'

One thing you can NOT change is cantrips.
You get to pick i think 3 (certainly not all) and you stay stuck with those for good. You can add some as you level up, but you can't change them.

I thought the state of Cantrips for a Cleric is that you know them all, just like you know all of your L1 spells, although the ones that are not considered domain spells have to be prepared to be used? I'll go read some more on that... Thanks!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Honestly, it doesn't matter that much, since every day you can change your selection of spells, pick whatever you fancy most, you can always change the selection 'tomorrow'

One thing you can NOT change is cantrips.
You get to pick i think 3 (certainly not all) and you stay stuck with those for good. You can add some as you level up, but you can't change them.

As I, for example, have had recent occasion to learn.

I had assumed that I had access to all of the cantrips; but, I don't, as it transpires.

Actually, for now, I am confined to using the ones mentioned in my character sheet - and not the additional cant trips included on the information sheet @Don't panic so thoughtfully provided as further (foot-noted) source material on the first page of the thread (which is also a wiki).

 

[Huntn]

As I, for example, have had recent occasion to learn.

I had assumed that I had access to all of the cantrips; but, I don't, as it transpires.

Actually, for now, I am confined to using the ones mentioned in my character sheet - and not the additional cant trips included on the information sheet @Don't panic so thoughtfully provided as further (foot-noted) source material on the first page of the thread (which is also a wiki).

My understanding which could be in error is that for a wizard besides the ones the scenario started you off with , you need to learn new spells by way of leveling or finding scripts out in the world. And they must be prepared, for use. I'm not sure about wizards and cantrips. I assumed they were freebies.

But I thought Clerics knew all their level spells, but had to prepare them to use, but not cantrips and not domain spells which are always available. I'll read up on it and report back.

 

[Don't panic]

My understanding which could be in error is that for a wizard besides the ones the scenario started you off with , you need to learn new spells by way of leveling or finding scripts out in the world. And they must be prepared, for use. I'm not sure about wizards and cantrips. I assumed they were freebies.

But I thought Clerics knew all their level spells, but had to prepare them to use, but not cantrips and not domain spells which are always available. I'll read up on it and report back.

yes, magic for clerics and wizards works in different ways (and other magickers are still different)

a wizard is essentially a scholar.
thy learn their magic from their studies. they usaually have started as apprentice to another wizard and acquired a basic list of spells.
Cantrips, they have practiced so much that they just know them and can use them at will. they are obviously minor magic, but can be very useful nonetheless, and they need not be prepared not use much magic energy. The other spell need to be reviewed every night, and a wizard of little experience can only memorize so many, and such preparation only lasts one day (these are the prepared spells). Further, the wizard only have limited mana to cast spells, so they can use it for any of the prepared spells, but only limited times (this are your slots).
Wizards acquire new spells by finding them, purchasing them, trading for them or stealing them from other wizards (or, non-thematically, by levlling up). Once they have access to a new spell, they have to copy it on their book (which takes money and time, and then they can study them (e.g prepare them). If they lose their book, they lose all the spells except the cantrips.

a cleric does magic by channeling their god.
all the spells are available right away, because they just pray their god to inspire them with this or that spell every night. their god is basically their 'book'. it is immediately and always 'complete', the limitation being that spell of higher level cannot be performed by lower level clerics (not to mention eventual requirement for special components). But while all spells are available, they still need to be prepared at night, and thus the cleric ability (level) limit their number/difficulty (prepared spells). further, they also use energy (slots) which limit what can be actually cast.
Cantrips are somewhat different, because they rely on mechanical rote memorization during the years of apprentship in order to be cast at will and with no consumption of mana (slots). thus only some of the cantrips are usable.
when the character is formed, you (or the Dm) decide which ones, and then those you know for life.
to learn a new cantrip is very difficult, and you get new ones only every so often, as you level up

 

[Huntn]

yes, magic for clerics and wizards works in different ways (and other magickers are still different)

a wizard is essentially a scholar.
thy learn their magic from their studies. they usaually have started as apprentice to another wizard and acquired a basic list of spells.
Cantrips, they have practiced so much that they just know them and can use them at will. they are obviously minor magic, but can be very useful nonetheless, and they need not be prepared not use much magic energy. The other spell need to be reviewed every night, and a wizard of little experience can only memorize so many, and such preparation only lasts one day (these are the prepared spells). Further, the wizard only have limited mana to cast spells, so they can use it for any of the prepared spells, but only limited times (this are your slots).
Wizards acquire new spells by finding them, purchasing them, trading for them or stealing them from other wizards (or, non-thematically, by levlling up). Once they have access to a new spell, they have to copy it on their book (which takes money and time, and then they can study them (e.g prepare them). If they lose their book, they lose all the spells except the cantrips.

a cleric does magic by channeling their god.
all the spells are available right away, because they just pray their god to inspire them with this or that spell every night. their god is basically their 'book'. it is immediately and always 'complete', the limitation being that spell of higher level cannot be performed by lower level clerics (not to mention eventual requirement for special components). But while all spells are available, they still need to be prepared at night, and thus the cleric ability (level) limit their number/difficulty (prepared spells). further, they also use energy (slots) which limit what can be actually cast.
Cantrips are somewhat different, because they rely on mechanical rote memorization during the years of apprentship in order to be cast at will and with no consumption of mana (slots). thus only some of the cantrips are usable.
when the character is formed, you (or the Dm) decide which ones, and then those you know for life.
to learn a new cantrip is very difficult, and you get new ones only every so often, as you level up

You are the expert on D&D, thanks! I've have a 5e Player Handbook now and....holy smokes is this game complicated.

For @Scepticalscribe, and @twietee I found this, if they find it helpful.

Cleric
Cantrips (PHB5e, p52)
At 1st level, you know three cantrips of your choice from the cleric spell list. You learn additional cleric cantrips of your choice at higher levels, as shown in the Cantrips Known column of the Cleric table.

Preparing and Casting Spells
The Cleric table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spell’s level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest.
You prepare the list of cleric spells that are available for you to cast, choosing from the cleric spell list. When you do so, choose a number of cleric spells equal to your Wisdom modifier + your cleric level (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
For example, if you are a 3rd-level cleric, you have four 1st-level and two 2nd-level spell slots. With a Wisdom of 16, your list of prepared spells can include six spells of 1st or 2nd level, in any combination. If you prepare the 1st-level spell cure wounds, you can cast it using a 1st-level or 2nd-level slot. Casting the spell doesn’t remove it from your list of prepared spells.

You can change your list of prepared spells when you finish a long rest. Preparing a new list of cleric spells requires time spent in prayer and meditation: at least 1 minute per spell level for each spell on your list.

Spellcasting Ability
Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for your cleric spells. The power of your spells comes from your devotion to your deity. You use your W isdom whenever a cleric spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Wisdom modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a cleric spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one. Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier
R i t u a l C a s t in g
Ritual Casting
You can cast a cleric spell as a ritual if that spell has the ritual tag and you have the spell prepared.

Spellcasting Focus
You can use a holy symbol (found in chapter 5) as a spellcasting focus for your cleric spells.

Divine Domain
Choose one domain related to your deity: Knowledge, Life, Light, Nature, Tempest, Trickery, or War. Each domain is detailed at the end of the class description, and each one provides examples of gods associated with it. Your choice grants you domain spells and other features when you choose it at 1st level. It also grants you additional ways to use Channel Divinity when you gain that feature at 2nd level, and additional benefits at 6th, 8th, and 17th levels.

Domain Spells
Each domain has a list of spells—its domain spells— that you gain at the cleric levels noted in the domain description. Once you gain a domain spell, you always have it prepared, and it doesn’t count against the number of spells you can prepare each day. If you have a domain spell that doesn’t appear on the cleric spell list, the spell is nonetheless a cleric spell for you.

Channel Divinity
At 2nd level, you gain the ability to channel divine energy directly from your deity, using that energy t ofuel magical effects. You start with two such effects: Turn Undead and an effect determined by your domain. Some domains grant you additional effects as you advance in levels, as noted in the domain description.
When you use your Channel Divinity, you choose which effect to create. You must then finish a short or long rest to use your Channel Divinity again. Some Channel Divinity effects require saving throws. When you use such an effect from this class, the DC equals your cleric spell save DC. Beginning at 6th level, you can use your Channel Divinity twice between rests, and beginning at 18th level.

Wizard
Cantrips (PHB5e, p108)
At 1st level, you know three cantrips of your choice from the wizard spell list. You learn additional wizard cantrips of your choice at higher levels, as shown in the Cantrips Known column of the Wizard table.

Your Spellbook (PHB5e, p108)
The spells that you add to your spellbook as you gain levels reflect the arcane research you conduct on your own, as well as intellectual breakthroughs you have had about the nature of the multiverse. You might find other spells during your adventures. You could discover a spell recorded on a scroll in an evil wizard's chest, for example, or in a dusty tome in an ancient library.

Spellbook
At 1st level, you have a spellbook containing six 1st-level wizard spells of your choice.

Preparing and Casting Spells
The Wizard table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spell’s level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest.
You prepare the list of wizard spells that are available for you to cast. To do so. choose a number of wizard spells from your spellbook equal to your Intelligence modifier + your wizard level (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
For example, if you're a 3rd-level wizard, you have four 1st-level and two 2nd-level spell slots. With an Intelligence of 16, your list of prepared spells can include six spells of 1st or 2nd level, in any combination, chosen from your spellbook. If you prepare the 1st-level spell magic missile, you can cast it using a 1st-level or a 2nd-level slot. Casting the spell doesn’t remove it from your list of prepared spells.
You can change your list of prepared spells when you finish a long rest. Preparing a new list of wizard spells requires time spent studying your spellbook and memorizing the incantations and gestures you must make to cast the spell: at least 1 minute per spell level for each spell on your list.

Spellcasting Ability
Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for your wizard spells, since you learn your spells through dedicated study and memorization. You use your Intelligence whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Intelligence modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a wizard spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one. Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier
Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your intelligence modifier

Lerning Spells of 1st Level and Higher
Each time you gain a w izard level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots, as shown on the Wizard table. On your adventures, you might find other spells that you can add to your spellbook (see the “Your Spellbook” sidebar).
[doublepost=1457620890][/doublepost]

@Don't panic, @ravenvii, @Moyank24, @Scepticalscribe, @twietee

I know you guys are in the heat of battle somewhere in a cave, but when you have a chance, am looking for some advice for a new Cleric.
Of all the list of spells available to a L1 Cleric, I all ready know are shown as bold, but by virtue of ** will prepare 4 more. I've selected 3 spells, but am open to changing those as I look at Sanctuary and Shield of Faith, seeking advice if a Cleric should have these versus the two damage spells I've picked?
Thanks!

Cleric L1 Spell List
Level 0 Cantrips Summaries- You know the following (bold) and can cast them at will.
*Guidance- Touch, buff + d4 to Ability Roll.
* Light- Touch, Illum object for 1 hr.
* Resistance- Touch. Buff to +d4 to saving throw of its choice.
* Sacred Flame- Ranged 60’ 1d8 radiant damage Damage, target does not benefit from cover.
* Spare the Dying- Touch. Stabilize character with zero HP.
* Thaumaturgy- Ranged 30. Used to project distractions.

1st Level Spells **= plan on preparing
* Bless- Buff 3 creatures attack rolls. (Described as domain spell always available)
* Cure Wounds- Touch, heal = 1d8 + your spellcasting ability modifier. (Described as domain spell always available)
** Guiding Bolt- Ranged 120’ = 4d6 radiant damage
** Healing Word- Ranged 60’ heal HP= 1d4 + your spell casting ability modifier
** Inflict Wounds- melee (touch)= 3d10 necrotic damage
______________________________
?????- one more
* Command- Command a creature if he can’t win a Wisdom Saving Throw.
* Detect Magic- Ranged 30’. Detect magic creature or object.
* Sanctuary- Ranged 30’ Protection ward for 1 target, To hit protected target, aggressor must make a Wisdom Saving Throw. If fails, creature can target another party member. Does not protect from area effects.
* Shield of Faith- Ranged Buff 60’. A shimmering field appears and surrounds target, granting it a +2 bonus to AC for the duration.
[doublepost=1457575043][/doublepost]

I think I'm getting it finally. Thanks for your help. Wait to you see my quick ref guide that is becoming quite large.

I corrected this post to show the Cantrips, I as a Cleric actually know.

 

[Don't panic]

You are the expert on D&D, thanks! I've have a 5e Player Handbook now and....holy smokes is this game complicated.

nah, but i used to play as a kid, (you know when dwarves and elves actually roamed the land)
and i have picked up 5e because i am DMing it in a game with my kids+ friends, so I had to deal with a lot of these same questions

 

[Huntn]

@Don't panic Regarding a comment regarding customized spells as far as hand movement, or verbal incantation, subsequently there was talk of visual customization. I found this link: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Components_(Spell_Descriptor).

My first impression is that a spell with a verbal aspect, would include a very specific incantation. And to change the incantation would changed the effect of the spell.

Are there provisions and specific rules for customized spells, or is it simply a matter of creatively making something up and advising the DM of the verbal, visual, and possibly visual characteristics of your spell? I did not see any category regarding visual effects. Would you have a free choice to be as creative as you like?

Also a question about material cost. For a spell with a material requirement (?), is there a mechanic where we have to search for material, subject to ability rolls to procure needed material and inable the casting of such a spelling? Disclaimer, I've not checked my spell list for material requirements, yet.

Thanks!

 

[Don't panic]

@Don't panic Regarding a comment regarding customized spells as far as hand movement, or verbal incantation, subsequently there was talk of visual customization. I found this link: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Components_(Spell_Descriptor).

My first impression is that a spell with a verbal aspect, would include a very specific incantation. And to change the incantation would changed the effect of the spell.

Are there provisions and specific rules for customized spells, or is it simply a matter of creatively making something up and advising the DM of the verbal, visual, and possibly visual characteristics of your spell? I did not see any category regarding visual effects. Would you have a free choice to be as creative as you like?

Also a question about material cost. For a spell with a material requirement (?), is there a mechanic where we have to search for material, subject to ability rolls to procure needed material and inable the casting of such a spelling? Disclaimer, I've not checked my spell list for material requirements, yet.

Thanks!

i suppose it can vary a lot with DMs, but to me it is mostly color, so in my games i would leave it up to the creativity of the spellcaster. they just need to be reasonable and consistent
in most cases the material components -especially for low level spells- are already part of the 'kit' the spellcaster has at the begining, and they do not get used up (this might be different in a particularly 'gritty' sort of campaign, for expert players, but not for beginners). for newly acquired, more advanced spells, or spells with complex/expensive requirements, you would have to source the material needed for them, and it might get consumed during the spell.