Louis Rossman on soldered SSD

[ArkSingularity]

LOL. First world problems eh...or is it ?! Sometimes, you gotta wonder.

Yea it was a bit of a scary experience. These are situations where you really don't quite know how to react until it happens. All I know is they were running diagnostics, then I hear the gunshots and hear a whole army of people screaming down the hallways. When that happens, there's no time to think. You just run.

The apple store staff actually evacuated everyone in the store though the back room of the apple store. We had to stay back there for about an hour before the police would let anyone out, but the level of security back there was insane. I mean, there was more stuff in the back of the Apple store than there was in the front. It wasn't warehouse-like at all, it was like a whole little city back there.

 

[BigMcGuire]

My 2021 16' MBP M1 Max, purchased March 2022 has on its 4TB SSD:

Despite having 64GB of ram, I'm a little surprised at the amount of TB written - despite doing the same thing that I did on my previous MBPs, my TB Written is way higher than I've ever had it. I run parallels on it for most of the day and 3 browsers with 20+ tabs each, and easily 20+ applications all day long.

Doing armchair search engine research, it looks like some 4TB NVME drives have a ~5100TBW. So I'm not terribly worried about lifespan. I'm also surprised to see a lot of 530 NVME drives with heatsink say 7300MB/sec. Surprising to me because as someone who is somewhat technically minded, I always thought that one of the reasons for soldered drives was that they were faster than drives you could plug in. Learn something new everyday.
(Armchair research: https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-FireCuda-Internal-Solid-State/dp/B0977K3N1M?th=1)

This is my most expensive MBP I've ever bought. So I am doing annual AppleCare+ on this thing until I get rid of it because I depend on it for my livelihood.


Been keeping up with this thread, some people have way more energy than I do to type out massive conversation pieces (but I enjoy reading them (both sides)) - so thank you.

 

[MayaUser]

Your argument is not valid because a cars EQS was never designed to have serviceable or even replacement storage parts that could be changed by the owner unlike that of a laptop.

so a bad design from the beginning...since the laptop was first designed to be like that decades ago by some people...thats not an excuse for the cars.. so everything is trending this way. The human will have limited access more and more by decades to come, cars will drive us and everything else. The humans will be the vegetables of the technologies that humans made
Same applies vice versa, but we are too stuck with what are given and not what could have been

 

[Raima]

Better question is, when is the last time someones SSD died? Outside of anomalies most will last longer than the life of the machine especially in Apple’s case when it can’t be moved from computer to computer.

I don’t mind Louis but he obviously has an agenda and as someone who grew up building pc’s I just don’t care anymore about swapping parts but I do expect them to last. If I felt strongly about it I simply wouldn’t buy it.

Better question, how many people have wished they could continue using their device where upgrading an SSD or RAM would have given it more life and prevent it from filling up the landfill quicker? Very environmentally unfriendly.

They say it's for quicker performance, but how much quicker is it? Are we sacrificing upgradability for 3% difference? No one knows. What we do know and what we can see is Apple always looking out for their self interest at the expense of the consumers best interest and wallets. It's evident of this when apple are charging at least x3 more for industry parts.

 

[HawkTheHusky1902]

Ok, y'all. I just watched this video featuring two of jy absolute favorite Youtubers, Luke Miani and DosDude1, (btw i know dosdude is a macrumors user, i talked to him), and it was amazing! It fits perfectly into this thread! Again, the mastermind that Dosdude is, he slapped Apple in the face and actually upgraded the ssd in a 'non-upgradeable' Mac mini! Here:

 

[HawkTheHusky1902]

Better question, how many people have wished they could continue using their device where upgrading an SSD or RAM would have given it more life and prevent it from filling up the landfill quicker? Very environmentally unfriendly.

They say it's for quicker performance, but how much quicker is it? Are we sacrificing upgradability for 3% difference? No one knows. What we do know and what we can see is Apple always looking out for their self interest at the expense of the consumers best interest and wallets. It's evident of this when apple are charging at least x3 more for industry parts.

But isnt that obvious at this point?!

 

[JamesMay82]

Every day, according to my frustrated genius bar guy, when one sent my logic board into the trash just out of Applecare. SSDs have a finite lifespan of about a thousand writes. The filesystem mitigates the effects of wear by various strategies but it still isnt a lot no matter how you spread it around. Rossman isnt incorrect, people pay him good money to try to repair Apple’s mistakes all day long. Soldiering the ssds to the board serves only two purposes: 1, its cheaper to produce, and 2, it limits the lifespan of the entire machine to its fastest wearing component. When pressed Apple gave the excuse that it was required for the highest speed performance, though that was slower than plenty of non-soldiered drives outside the PR bubble.

You guys are discussing this like it's some foggy hypothetical. The complaining about this took place about 6 years ago when Apple got really aggressive about user-hostile design and cost engineering every nickel possible out of their production. Didn‘t matter. Apple doesnt care and neither do the kids. Every year fifty million more buy whatever is being sold, and they go right out and buy a new one when it dies, and that's just the way everyone likes it.

Is there software too check the health of an SSD?

 

[ArkSingularity]

Is there software too check the health of an SSD?

Smartmontools / smartctl can do it, but that requires the command line. I'm sure there are other tools that can grab that info also, a lot of disk benchmark utilities probably can report it.

 

[ArkSingularity]

What we do know and what we can see is Apple always looking out for their self interest at the expense of the consumers best interest and wallets. It's evident of this when apple are charging at least x3 more for industry parts.

Yea, it's specifically with RAM and storage that they do this. You have to spend about $400 extra just to get a 16GB/512GB system on the Air and the 13" pro. It's not cheap (most PCs in the $800+ range come with 16GB standard).

That being said, for the performance of the SOC, Apple's prices are insanely good. You can find the M1 air for under $800 on a good sale, and you won't get that level of performance for that price in the PC market. You really won't be able to match that. And then when they throw in the excellent battery life and the amazing displays that go into these things, Apple really has built a very compelling machine for the price they're selling it at.

Apple's base prices for these things are decent for what you get, but the upgrade costs are very, very expensive by comparison. I think I'd feel better about it if the base configurations were better. If they came with 12GB of RAM and 512GB of storage, I don't think many people would complain quite as much if the cost to upgrade to 16GB/1TB was $300.

 

[mrmister]

I read ALL OF THIS, and BOTH VIDEOS, and it's great that there was a small amount of actual dialogue, but make no mistake—Rossman absolutely owned everyone who slagged him, and coolly and calculatedly took them apart into pieces. The ones who went on more and more looked more and more foolish.

A number of the loudest voices here should be forced to eat their hats.

 

[mrmister]

He also did it smoothly and kindly, while his opponents tended to be abrasive, rude, and nasty.

 

[ArkSingularity]

Ok, y'all. I just watched this video featuring two of jy absolute favorite Youtubers, Luke Miani and DosDude1, (btw i know dosdude is a macrumors user, i talked to him), and it was amazing! It fits perfectly into this thread! Again, the mastermind that Dosdude is, he slapped Apple in the face and actually upgraded the ssd in a 'non-upgradeable' Mac mini! Here:

Just watched this. Impressive that they were able to pull this off, 380C would have had me sweating bullets if I had any part of that motherboard running anywhere near those temps.

(Most electronic parts are usually made to briefly withstand these kinds of temps when powered off to allow for the soldering process. But holy smokes, that would be stressful to have to do by hand like this.)

 

[HawkTheHusky1902]

Just watched this. Impressive that they were able to pull this off, 380C would have had me sweating bullets if I had any part of that motherboard running anywhere near those temps.

(Most electronic parts are usually made to briefly withstand these kinds of temps when powered off to allow for the soldering process. But holy smokes, that would be stressful to have to do by hand like this.)

Yeah i know...but its really cool! And entertaining!

 

[ArkSingularity]

Yeah i know...but its really cool! And entertaining!

Very. I love seeing things like this.

 

[HawkTheHusky1902]

Very. I love seeing things like this.

me too, especially the Luke Miani vids on getting cheap Macbooks and upgrading and making them work again! I love doing that, it has become a personal hobby of mine to do it.

 

[ArkSingularity]

me too, especially the Luke Miani vids on getting cheap Macbooks and upgrading and making them work again! I love doing that, it has become a personal hobby of mine to do it.

Yea, it's fun. I enjoy holding on to older devices and upgrading them too. I've been thinking about getting an i7 2012 Macbook and combining some of the parts from my existing 2012 (i5) to get an upgraded one. I don't use it much anymore, but it would be neat to get it maxed out.

 

[HawkTheHusky1902]

Yea, it's fun. I enjoy holding on to older devices and upgrading them too. I've been thinking about getting an i7 2012 Macbook and combining some of the parts from my existing 2012 (i5) to get an upgraded one. I don't use it much anymore, but it would be neat to get it maxed out.

My mid2010 mbp is my only and first computer now...runs great!

 

[HawkTheHusky1902]

Yea, it's fun. I enjoy holding on to older devices and upgrading them too. I've been thinking about getting an i7 2012 Macbook and combining some of the parts from my existing 2012 (i5) to get an upgraded one. I don't use it much anymore, but it would be neat to get it maxed out.

Just get a i7 2012 Mbp logic board off of ebay and replace your current one with it.

 

[Jay Tee]

.

 

[TMRJIJ]

Yea it was a bit of a scary experience. These are situations where you really don't quite know how to react until it happens. All I know is they were running diagnostics, then I hear the gunshots and hear a whole army of people screaming down the hallways. When that happens, there's no time to think. You just run.

The apple store staff actually evacuated everyone in the store though the back room of the apple store. We had to stay back there for about an hour before the police would let anyone out, but the level of security back there was insane. I mean, there was more stuff in the back of the Apple store than there was in the front. It wasn't warehouse-like at all, it was like a whole little city back there.

Sorry, you had to go through that. It's definitely not a situation you can really prepare for. I remember my University having a semi-lockdown when a female student made threats on Snapchat to bomb the facilities. The area was a ghost town the entire morning.
EDIT: Most people at the time were saying it was a bomb threat. More likely, it was a shooting threat. Local News and police said 'destructive device' and 'shooting'.

 

[HawkTheHusky1902]

Sorry, you had to go through that. It's definitely not a situation you can really prepare for. I remember my University having a semi-lockdown when a female student made threats on Snapchat to bomb the facilities. The area was a ghost town the entire morning.

How would a female student have a bomb? That is highly unlikely, and not worth locking down a entire school for...they were just on drugs probably.

 

[120FPS]

What about our parts from our cars Louis?Cars that should be even more reliable and last more than our Apple devices If my cpu or ssd is dying on my EQS i bet the whole unit has to be change and the cost is a lot more than a Apple single device and data is also lost if its not back up....so stop trying to place Apple in a bad window since a lot larger and expenses segments are doing the same thing. So please make this statement in general not just for Apple itself

I mean he does if you bother to watch his videos. Since his business is working with Apple products then it may surprise you to find him talking about Apple’s products.

 

[120FPS]

Someone on Reddit mentioned that Apple originally had NAND sockets planned in the M1 MBP prototype schematics at 56:36 in this video:

but they dropped them for the production model.

 

[120FPS]

On the topic of repair, batteries etc

 

[LateToTheParty]

I don't think Louis Rossmann is a grifter. I don't think he's motivated by views or anything like that, like some people are suggesting in this thread. My main problem with Louis and the right to repair movement in general is that they pretend to be all about choice and freedom but they just won't let people exercise choice. Some of us are fine buying a new laptop if the current one breaks before it's expected (a excuse to buy a new toy, yay). Some people are fine with AppleCare. People who care about the stuff that Louis cares about can buy a Framework Laptop. The market has an answer, but has Louis stopped advocating for any of the stuff he advocates after the Framework laptop was released? No, because this is not about choice, this is about control.

I also love that I can get my father a tablet without side-loading where he can't possibly install any crap and I hate that the EU is going to force Apple to allow side-loading, because I'm going to have to deal with that mess. I'm sure Louis thinks this is a great thing, but the reality is that right now in the EU you can choose if you want a phone/tablet without side-loading or one that allows it, and that choice is being taken away. This is progress, for Louis.

And yes, personally, I like the idea that you can get a phone that becomes a useless brick if it's stolen. That means if I get an iPhone for a relative they would be less likely to be the victim of an assault. Louis calls having this opinion spreading FUD, but it's my legitimate opinion. Zealotry in any form is so frustrating. Louis just can't fathom that somebody could legitimately have a different set of priorities. Just now in his Youtube timeline he posted "Hopefully you all have better luck than I spreading the message of repair and fighting FUD when it comes up in your own lives than I did!".

Louis, we want freedom of association and trade. We dislike you because you are an anti-freedom advocate, and that's one of the worst things one can be.