M1 as digital darkroom

[ArPe]

Linux will never be a player in this space despite what some of the fanatics say. They are ideologically driven instead of thinking about real users and real app workflows.

Windows/Mac = same thing really except that both systems handle color rendering a little differently. QuickTime doesn’t use the same gamma that Windows Media Player uses for example. Adobe has a LUT to fix that in Premiere but it is far from perfect.

macOS is overall preferable for ease of use. Windows has all these lovely powerful hardware options but the M1 and beyond is challenging that convention by optimizing software and hardware so that they perform a lot better than PCs with comparable carbon footprints and teraflop numbers.

 

[TrueBlou]

Another vote for Affinity here. I’ve been using it as an Adobe replacement for quite a while now and it really is a great app, as is Affinity Designer.

On the M1 Affinity is a great performer, not really surprising considering how good their iPad app is.

 

[darngooddesign]

I got a couple options for an M1 provided it'll actually work for me. A mini with a few more ports or maybe even a macbook pro or air but the small screen might be a bit too small to work with. I'd probably prefer a mouse.

You can connect a large monitor to both the Mini and MacBookPro.

 

[slitherjef]

I'm still a bit bummed over the Linux issues I've had. A few weeks ago I got frustrated enough to finally just walk away from that box for a while. I miss it a little but it's been a bit out of sight out of mind.

The M1 mac, also has kind of just slid to my periphery also. I've actually been trying to give windows 10 a go. It has a few annoyances. So, I don't know on the M1 darkroom idea right now. ?

 

[ADGrant]

Thanks for the info on affinity photo! Would be awesome if it'd run in Linux. The lack of available raw support is why I'm looking at Apple stuff right now.

Would also be nice if I could use an Apple computer without an online account but don't think that's possible.

As far as screen size, obviously larger is better I rarely edit in the field anyway, it'd just be a little easier to offload a macbook air (don't need a touch bar) if it didn't work out. I know the macbooks are really port limited and would need some port awareness and planning to use only two (basically one if I need to plug it in).

This could also be the M1 is just new gear to get. Another part in thought process is, windows 10 and just deal with it. A windows 10 pro full box and new drive is still cheaper than a new M1 setup.

A Mac (Intel or M1), has plenty of digital darkroom options (some of which are MacOS exclusive), and is much closer to Linux than Windows. MacOS is basically a variant of BSD Unix and Linux is a Unix clone.

The M1 is probably faster than any Windows machine you can buy for the same or less money and Windows is a horrible operating system. Drive letters in 2021, really

 

[Krevnik]

That's a nice surprise. Checking out their info now. Thanks for the udpate. It will interesting to see if there are any further performance improvements (by Affinity and other devs) for M1 Macs as time goes by.

At least in my case, performance on Affinity Photo already is about where I'd expect it to land on the M1.

It's not as responsive as my Mac Pro on very large layers or complicated files, but the Mac Pro has a GPU that utterly stomps on the M1's GPU (5700X should be about 3x as fast as the M1). But the clincher here is that the M1 also handles things better than any Intel GPU that has been in a CPU that Apple has shipped. So there's definitely noticeable uplift compared to the 2018 Mini, Intel MBA or Intel 13" MBP when not using an eGPU in my experience so far.

Since Affinity's responsiveness is heavily dependent on Metal with current versions, I would just make sure to temper expectations when comparing an M1 to existing Intel-based Macs that have a much more capable GPU.

 

[mmkerc]

A mini with more ports could be released next year. It'll be more expensive (but more capable as well). If you don't mind hub then port is not a problem for current version.
You said Adobe is out of the picture so I guess no Photoshop and Lightroom? If that's the case you could look at Pixelmater Pro. It can read virtually every RAW files on Earth and has great selections of tools, and AI tools, for adjusting photo. It doesn't have library management though. I believe any photo you throw at it will be saved in iCloud. That means you have to subscribe to it.
The only problem you will have, I think, is the monitor. You need to check whether what you have compatible with M1. And of course this current version of mini can run 2 external monitors. If you want 3, no luck.

There are ways to run more monitors off an M1 Mac Mini. This link explains how to run 6 monitors though I don't know why you would need that many.

 

[slitherjef]

I'm still thinking about trying this. However configurations for things are getting up to a bit pricey; 16gb ram and 512gb storage which would probably be a little light storage wise and need an external drive (probably a good idea)

Torn between the air and mini. The mini would give me more ports without dongles. Air, an extra screen albeit small.

But the issues of being able to decode raw images (.cr3) is the same so far as Linux. I haven't been able to confirm if Canon DPP will work on an M1 mac.

Of course the cheaper alternative is just windows either in a VM or stand-alone

 

[slitherjef]

I've come a bit close to hovering my finger over the "add to cart" button today for the mid range air. The little bit of sale tempted me a little.

I think it's more of a curiosity and wanting to try something different as Linux is not working for me.

I am wondering something however about Canon dpp for my EOS R raw files. I haven't seen it from the download dropbox menu for mac OS the last couple versions. Windows yes but nothing for mac.

There seems to be a version available on iOS however, I checked from my sister's iPad mini. Curious, it's free with in app purchases. Uh, ok (now I'm getting a bit frustrated with Canon). It's got meh reviews and if I understand something correctly, it might be a subscription. From the reviews the program has limited functionality and camera support. Sigh.

Okay then, that probably settles it about the m1 as digital darkroom for me ?

If I got out to use my gear more I'd probably pony up for the standard Adobe stuff. Really didn't want yet another online account to think about.

 

[Hani7up]

So, full disclosure here, I'm not really an Apple person but my current choices of operating systems are really not working out for me. Windows irks me. Linux is okay to meddle with but getting actual work done on my Linux box... It could be smoother and the tools available leave a lot to be desired in terms of what works for me, granted the .cr3 files are sort of supported I just can't get things to work on my Linux workstation. I'm using Manjaro. The mantra seems to be, "try a different distro"

Well, sure maybe and it may or may not work. Bottom line? Not sure I really want to continue trying to make things work when I come back from a rare photography excursion and just want to pop the card in the computer, load up Canon DPP to do minor raw adjustments and probably gimp for other tweaks and probably upload.

Right now I'm not ready to rent adobe suite, but maybe later in once I get a reliable workflow going for my photography once again. Honestly I think my computer's are keeping me from picking the camera up more often, so I started thinking about an M1 mac.

I haven't used an Apple device in a long time, like 2011 mbp pre retina. Found it a little backwards and was often lost but was able to edit photos and used the last standalone retail box of lightroom

I also find Linux very backwards and it's limiting with available software. Sure rawtherapee and darktable are available but it's just a struggle to use and rawtherapee crashes and corrupts my raw images trying to open. Just fed up trying.

I got a couple options for an M1 provided it'll actually work for me. A mini with a few more ports or maybe even a macbook pro or air but the small screen might be a bit too small to work with. I'd probably prefer a mouse.

And yes, my windows 10 box would probably work to but... Ugh... It irks (creeps me out?) Me. I'd rather run it in a VM.

A side note is I dabble with astrophotography also and work with fits files. Gimp should be able to somewhat work with these also, but stacking and registration not sure what's available for mac OS.

But primary would be photography with DSLR and .cr3 (Canon EOS R) image decoding.

Thoughts? Any M1 photographers here?

Yes. I am a pro and a Certified Photoshop Expert and am absolutely happy with my M1 Mac mini and Benq SW240 screen. No issues at all; Lightroom and Photoshop run as smooth as silk. Did not try the Photoshop beta for M1 yet but eventually will. By the way, I use Nikon D810 full frame and only shoot RAW, no issues at all

 

[spiderman0616]

Affinity Photo is great. Pixelmator Pro is having a 50% discount right now though.

For a "pro", I would not recommend Pixelmator Pro over Affinity Photo. Pixelmator Pro is great software, but it has a long way to go to catch up to all the features that Affinity Photo has. Also, Affinity apps often go on sale for 50% off, which makes each one $25 instead of $50.

Just for some perspective, I am NOT a professional photo editor and still found Pixelmator Pro to be lacking some pretty basic stuff that I would expect it to have.

 

[spiderman0616]

I'm still a bit bummed over the Linux issues I've had. A few weeks ago I got frustrated enough to finally just walk away from that box for a while. I miss it a little but it's been a bit out of sight out of mind.

The M1 mac, also has kind of just slid to my periphery also. I've actually been trying to give windows 10 a go. It has a few annoyances. So, I don't know on the M1 darkroom idea right now. ?

I used to keep an Ubuntu box running in my office off to the side. It was a gorgeous OS, but there were too many usability issues that I got sick of finding workarounds for. I used to work in CentOS for my job, so I knew my way around Linux pretty well, but eventually it gets annoying trying to figure out problems.

 

[hobowankenobi]

I used to keep an Ubuntu box running in my office off to the side. It was a gorgeous OS, but there were too many usability issues that I got sick of finding workarounds for. I used to work in CentOS for my job, so I knew my way around Linux pretty well, but eventually it gets annoying trying to figure out problems.

Yep. And that bar...of being annoyed...can be pretty low for creatives that don't want to master OS quirks, that just want to do their creative work.

 

[frank-ger]

My MBA M1 will arrive tomorrow (finger crossed), but I‘ve already bought
Affinity Photo: Adobe Photoshop replacement
Affinity Designer: Adobe Illustrator replacement
Affinity Publisher: Adobe InDesign replacement
with 50% discount for all in all 84€.
All apps are optimized for M1 and from the Youtube tutorials, I‘ve watched, they are pretty comparable.

 

[grahamwright1]

As long as you are willing to take the time and learn the Affinity app's, I think you are going to be pretty happy with that setup. A friend of mine had used Photoshop for years and complained for weeks about why Affinity was a poor replacement. After the first few weeks he stopped complaining, and now tells all his friends to "just buy Affinity" - see what happens once you get comfortable with the small differences .

 

[spiderman0616]

My MBA M1 will arrive tomorrow (finger crossed), but I‘ve already bought
Affinity Photo: Adobe Photoshop replacement
Affinity Designer: Adobe Illustrator replacement
Affinity Publisher: Adobe InDesign replacement
with 50% discount for all in all 84€.
All apps are optimized for M1 and from the Youtube tutorials, I‘ve watched, they are pretty comparable.

The Affinity apps are among my favorites on both Mac and iPad. They are just absolutely fantastic. I do worry about how long Serif can go without charging a yearly fee or something like that, but I'm enjoying the ride for now.

 

[slitherjef]

My MBA M1 will arrive tomorrow (finger crossed), but I‘ve already bought
Affinity Photo: Adobe Photoshop replacement
Affinity Designer: Adobe Illustrator replacement
Affinity Publisher: Adobe InDesign replacement
with 50% discount for all in all 84€.
All apps are optimized for M1 and from the Youtube tutorials, I‘ve watched, they are pretty comparable.

Don't mind sharing your findings here ? what camera are you using?

I'm pretty sure I can use the programs on windows as a potential upgrade from gimp and dpp.

//
Some other thoughts, had a few Linux quirks whole system freeze (evidently it's an issue with mint) thinking of trying yet another distro but also to the point where I'm thinking of dropping Linux aside from a few specialized cases (controlling my astrophotography rig if it ever clears up) but the laptop also runs mint... I had the idea of using the desktop Linux box from inside to do this but now I don't know.

Trying to figure options.

 

[Krevnik]

As long as you are willing to take the time and learn the Affinity app's, I think you are going to be pretty happy with that setup. A friend of mine had used Photoshop for years and complained for weeks about why Affinity was a poor replacement. After the first few weeks he stopped complaining, and now tells all his friends to "just buy Affinity" - see what happens once you get comfortable with the small differences .

Agree. Affinity isn’t at the point where it can replace Photoshop in 100% of cases, but it’s been my go-to for years now, and even without discounts, it’s a bargain compared to Adobe’s subscriptions, IMO. At the very least, it’s worth giving the trial a go, and at 50% off right now, it’s a crazy good deal.

I am wondering something however about Canon dpp for my EOS R raw files. I haven't seen it from the download dropbox menu for mac OS the last couple versions. Windows yes but nothing for mac.

One thing I might recommend is giving other RAW processors a chance. Before I switched to Affinity, I was using Adobe’s RAW engine (used in Photoshop, Camera Raw, and Lightroom) rather than the camera manufacturer’s. On one hand, it’s not going to produce exactly the same output, but you also get used to how different RAW engines work after some time with it. Affinity has the ability to process RAW files, which I’m using for now in place of Lightroom. I still miss Lightroom though.

EDIT: I will say, I did get a chance to play with a MBA for a bit, but wound up returning it. Mostly because I want to wait for the 16” to get the larger screen. But if the 13” display works, it’ll be a great little photo editing machine.

 

[frank-ger]

Don't mind sharing your findings here ? what camera are you using?

Yes, I‘ll do. I‘m very exciting to get my MBA tomorrow. I‘m using a Panasonic FZ1000 camera currently, but maybe I‘ll return to digital reflexcamera of MFT camera in future. As software I‘m using Photoshop CS2 and Lighroom on Windows 10.

 

[armoured]

I am wondering something however about Canon dpp for my EOS R raw files. I haven't seen it from the download dropbox menu for mac OS the last couple versions. Windows yes but nothing for mac.

What's your concern about canon dpp? Is it that you particularly love that program and must have it? Do you think it gives better results?

Or is just that you assume you need the canon raw processor for it to work?

I don't use canon myself but lots of friends do - don't know a single one that uses dpp. They all use third-party programs or apple Photos. I've played with the equivalent Nikon software, hated it, and never used it since, not on my current computer.

There can be specific cases where you really need the camera manufacturers' software - but I'm not aware of that many compelling ones.

 

[slitherjef]

What's your concern about canon dpp?

I figure between it and gimp I can probably do most of my photo editing, the little bit of photos I get. Can't see creating accounts or buying or renting software when most of the time basic adjustments are all I need.

 

[armoured]

I figure between it and gimp I can probably do most of my photo editing, the little bit of photos I get. Can't see creating accounts or buying or renting software when most of the time basic adjustments are all I need.

Apple photos should do everything you need, you can pick up other programs later if you need. No particular requirement for canons software.

 

[ChrisA]

So, full disclosure here, I'm not really an Apple person but my current choices of operating systems are really not working out for me. Windows irks me. Linux is okay to meddle with but getting actual work done on my Linux box... It could be smoother and the tools available leave a lot to be desired in terms of what works for me, granted the .cr3 files are sort of supported I just can't get things to work on my Linux workstation. I'm using Manjaro. The mantra seems to be, "try a different distro"

Well, sure maybe and it may or may not work. Bottom line? Not sure I really want to continue trying to make things work when I come back from a rare photography excursion and just want to pop the card in the computer, load up Canon DPP to do minor raw adjustments and probably gimp for other tweaks and probably upload.

Right now I'm not ready to rent adobe suite, but maybe later in once I get a reliable workflow going for my photography once again. Honestly I think my computer's are keeping me from picking the camera up more often, so I started thinking about an M1 mac.

I haven't used an Apple device in a long time, like 2011 mbp pre retina. Found it a little backwards and was often lost but was able to edit photos and used the last standalone retail box of lightroom

I also find Linux very backwards and it's limiting with available software. Sure rawtherapee and darktable are available but it's just a struggle to use and rawtherapee crashes and corrupts my raw images trying to open. Just fed up trying.

I got a couple options for an M1 provided it'll actually work for me. A mini with a few more ports or maybe even a macbook pro or air but the small screen might be a bit too small to work with. I'd probably prefer a mouse.

And yes, my windows 10 box would probably work to but... Ugh... It irks (creeps me out?) Me. I'd rather run it in a VM.

A side note is I dabble with astrophotography also and work with fits files. Gimp should be able to somewhat work with these also, but stacking and registration not sure what's available for mac OS.

But primary would be photography with DSLR and .cr3 (Canon EOS R) image decoding.

Thoughts? Any M1 photographers here?

Apple used to have great professional-level software for photography called "Aperture" but they abandoned that market to Adobe. So if you do buy a Mac it s so that you can run some 3rd party software on it. CHOSE THAT SOFTWARE FIRST. Apple's "photos" is very limited, even for casual iPhone-using snapshooters.

The reason to buy a Mac is that it runs the software you like. If it turns out you like Darktable then buying a Mac is a ste of money as you can run Darktabe on a Linux/PC better, faster, cheaper.

But if you like Adobe Lightroom/Photoshop or (I recommend it) Adobe Photoshop Elements then you need Either a Mac or a Windows PC. Or a high-end Linux Machine powerful enough to run Windows 10 flawlessly in a virtual machine.

Don't worry about the small screen size of the MacBook. What "every photographer" does is to buy a large and high-quality monitor. I use a 27" Dell 4K monitor. If you shoot with an SLR then I think 27" and 4K are minimum specs and this work well with any Mac (or any Linux and Windows PC)

Also, consider where to store the photos. How to back up the photos. You need to have as a dead-minium the files on three different physical media and at two different geographical locations, always even when running the backup software. Phots will not fit inside any current M1 based Mac. You need some kind of external storage, either DAS or NAS, and a few backups.

I'll say once more Select the software FIRST. Only then chose the OS and hardware.

 

[armoured]

Apple used to have great professional-level software for photography called "Aperture" but they abandoned that market to Adobe. So if you do buy a Mac it s so that you can run some 3rd party software on it. CHOSE THAT SOFTWARE FIRST. Apple's "photos" is very limited, even for casual iPhone-using snapshooters.

The reason to buy a Mac is that it runs the software you like.

There are a number of different questions and use cases in this thread - from those with more advanced photo needs to what seems like people who haven't settle on anything. That caveat aside, I'd approach parts of this differently depending on the user. Not trying to disagree with anything, just a different thought process/approach - for what it's worth.

Also note: a lot of this won't apply to those that already have massive libraries and workflows - that gets tricky quickly. Switching your main editing suite and workflow is painful.

-I agree that if you must have a certain suite of software, and it only runs on one platform - well, there it is, use that platform, you don't have much choice. If this is you, you probably know it already anyway and don't need advice.

-But for a lot of users (me anyway): I'd say use the platform you like and enjoy. Most of the mac users I know will search for mac software to meet their needs rather than considering switching platforms. (May be different for those pros or others for whom digital darkroom is main use - for me it's only one of several core uses)

-Fortunately these days, several (most?) of the main photography suites and programs - the flagships - run on Mac and Windows. So up to the user.

-There is spotty / uneven support from the camera manufacturers sometimes on mac for their own 'camera support software' like DPP, but - unfair generalization perhaps - their software sucks anyways; don't use it unless you know why you're using it; almost noone has to use it.

-For a beginner or modest use, Photos is not bad at all - way better than it's given credit. Over time they've improved it and integrated more of the heart of Aperture* (which I adored and I'm still livid apple dropped it). To be clear: I couldn't use Photos for my main stuff but ... it's decent. It's usable, it's gotten better, and could serve someone at a basic level pretty well. I'd have no hesitation recommending someone use Photos while they start with photo editing on a mac and until they've had a chance to try other editing programs and figure out what works for them. (And if it turns out Photos meets their needs, all the better). [Please don't @ me with things missing/wrong in Photos - I'm not claiming it's great or has all the features - but it is accessible and serviceable and included with the MacOS.]

*I'm mostly using lightroom now but aperture's levels was/is brilliant as the single best intuitive way to fix most photos quickly, and Photos has the closest I've seen of a Levels implementation as simple as Aperture.

 

[AdamBuker]

Don't be so sure... There's apparently some rather resourceful folks out there...

See:

GitHub - cormiertyshawn895/Retroactive: Retroactive has been discontinued. You should transition from Retroactive to supported apps such as Music, iTunes for Windows, iMazing, Photos, Darktable, Lightroom Classic, and DaVinci Resolve.

Retroactive has been discontinued. You should transition from Retroactive to supported apps such as Music, iTunes for Windows, iMazing, Photos, Darktable, Lightroom Classic, and DaVinci Resolve. - ...

github.com

I didn't even know someone was working on making Aperture run. I tried this and it works in Monterey on my m1 mini. Thank you for posting this!