M1 chip fast my ass...

[bobcomer]

In addition to the good posts by @Serban55 and @Krevnik, I would just add that Apple has released products with titanium and other materials but aluminum has, so far, them the best balance of cost, recycling, machineability, and heat dissipation (even for laptop systems with active cooling, if the chassis is thin enough the case material still makes a difference). However, pretty sure MR has published articles on recent Apple patents for the use of other materials including both titanium and carbon fiber so they are definitely exploring them with the caveat that no one know if or when they might switch from Al.

I hope they are. I really don't like the current aluminum. That's no way the Air should weigh 3 lbs...

My preference would be carbon fiber, but we shall see when that happens. But I'd be willing to bet we wont, weight doesn't seem to be a concern for Apple.

 

[leman]

I disagree, Apple never said the M1 is a low end device, and indeed, there's "Pro" level laptops and a couple desktops using it.

Actually they did. They have officially referred to it as a "low power silicon" and they only shipped it in the entry-level consumer products. The moniker "Pro" on that 13" doesn't mean anything at it was originally introduces as a replacement for the MacBook Air, using the same hardware as the Air.

 

[Queen6]

Aluminium? Go back to basics Apple is first and foremost about the user experience and the ridged aluminium chassis of Mac's simply feels good to the hand simple as that. Apple may have some environmental concerns, equally it's mostly Smoke & Mirrors or it's hardware would be designed far differently.

With Apple's scale of economy very likely aluminium remains to be very cost effective. At 3 lbs I think the Air or 13" MBP are overly heavy and for some that heft also translates into quality...

Q-6

 

[leman]

Aluminium? Go back to basics Apple is first and foremost about the user experience and the ridged aluminium chassis of Mac's simply feels good to the hand simple as that. Apple may have some environmental concerns, equally it's mostly Smoke & Mirrors or it's hardware would be designed far differently.

With Apple's scale of economy very likely aluminium remains to be very cost effective. At 3 lbs I think the Air or 13" MBP are overly heavy and for some that heft also translates into quality...

Q-6

Not to mention that they have heavily invested into aluminum machining. And let's not forget that Apple ships many more laptops than premium models from other makers, so they need a solution that scales. Aluminum ticks the boxes.

 

[crazy dave]

I disagree, Apple never said the M1 is a low end device, and indeed, there's "Pro" level laptops and a couple desktops using it.

Edit: @leman already said everything I would’ve said including a point about volume with aluminum that I only alluded to

 

[Queen6]

Actually they did. They have officially referred to it as a "low power silicon" and they only shipped it in the entry-level consumer products. The moniker "Pro" on that 13" doesn't mean anything at it was originally introduces as a replacement for the MacBook Air, using the same hardware as the Air.

Apple only produces one Professional system and that's the Mac Pro. Same as many the "Pro" moniker is slapped on anything & everything these days. Doesn't mean you cant use such HW in a professional role, far from it. The smart professional chooses the best tools for the job, i.e. most cost effective.

Apple provides consumer grade computing hardware barring one exception. Where I think many have got off track as few expected such performance gains in what is effectively Apple's base offerings for the Mac. You can see this across forums where some have issue, equally they have very significant workloads on these base Mac's likely beyond what they were originally designed for yet thx to the M1 SOC are capable of.

Can you imagine transferring a demanding workflow from a 16" MBP to a 13" Intel Mac? It would bring the system to a crawl yet in some use cases the current M1 is capable, equally not ideal. All the same not too shabby for a entry-level consumer product.

Q-6

 

[bobcomer]

Edit: @leman already said everything I would’ve said including a point about volume with aluminum that I only alluded to

I guess I'll just have to disagree with Apple and you guys on this one, which certainly isn't anything new. I hate aluminum and heft is unnecessary.

 

[crazy dave]

Apple only produces one Professional system and that's the Mac Pro. Same as many the "Pro" moniker is slapped on anything & everything these days. Doesn't mean you cant use such HW in a professional role, far from it. The smart professional chooses the best tools for the job, i.e. most cost effective.

Apple provides consumer grade computing hardware barring one exception. Where I think many have got off track as few expected such performance gains in what is effectively Apple's base offerings for the Mac. You can see this across forums where some have issue, equally they have very significant workloads on these base Mac's likely beyond what they were originally designed for yet thx to the M1 SOC are capable of.

Can you imagine transferring a demanding workflow from a 16" MBP to a 13" Intel Mac? It would bring the system to a crawl yet in some use cases the current M1 is capable, equally not ideal. All the same not too shabby for a entry-level consumer product.

Q-6

I would be more flexible about my definition of professional hardware, because a lot of people used MBP to get substantial professional work done - more than just word processing. But yeah the 13” pros were always baseline models and the M1 replaced the bottom of the computational barrel as far as Macs go.

 

[crazy dave]

I guess I'll just have to disagree with Apple and you guys on this one, which certainly isn't anything new. I hate aluminum and heft is unnecessary.

Oh don’t mistake me on the part about aluminum: I’m not against switching to a lighter material … provided it still has got enough strength not to flex under use and there aren’t any cooling problems and Apple commits to recycling it. But given those points though I simply understand why Apple went with aluminum, especially given cost and volume, and why they’ve stuck with it. If they can switch though, then yes they should.

 

[Queen6]

I would be more flexible about my definition of professional hardware, because a lot of people used MBP to get substantial professional work done - more than just word processing.

I agree so don't get me wrong I use MBP's myself professionally in an engineering role. That said they are what they are. On the flipside going to Windows you can put $15K into Dell Precision portable workstation and they are excellent systems for those that need such certification. As said the smart professional chooses the best tools for the job, i.e. most cost effective.

Personally I don't need Xeon CPU's & ECC RAM, so I tend to opt for a good gaming notebook and re-role them as a portable workstation. Sure need to be mindful of the aesthetic and be able to tone down the RGB with them frequently having better performance due to more aggressive cooling solutions. What I'm stating is that the "Pro" moniker doesn't really add up to much more than sales and marketing...

Q-6

 

[mi7chy]

Your Cezanne iGPU can offer playable FPS in games like Cyberpunk 2077? That's news to me...

Plays fine at 900p low but Cyberpunk 2077 is more of a worst case but better than nothing on M1. Doom Eternal is demanding but plays at 1080p medium. However, I usually default to 3060 at 1080p ultra on the Lenovo Legion Slim 7.

 

[crazy dave]

What I'm stating is that the "Pro" moniker doesn't really add up to much more than sales and marketing...

Q-6

iPhone Pro.

 

[Queen6]

iPhone Pro.

Exactly, Pro just means a better spec and a higher price tag. TBH I far preferred when Apple didn't have "MacBook Pro" on the lower bezel as it's kind of cringeworthy...

Q-6

 

[leman]

Apple only produces one Professional system and that's the Mac Pro. Same as many the "Pro" moniker is slapped on anything & everything these days. Doesn't mean you cant use such HW in a professional role, far from it. The smart professional chooses the best tools for the job, i.e. most cost effective.

I would argue that the 15“/16“ MBP also qualifies as pro machine (using the industry nomenclature) since for all intends and purposes it’s very similar to mobile workstations such as HP Zbook or Dell Precision.

Of course, starting on Monday the 14“ will also likely qualify as a workstation laptop (as its likely to be more capable than Precision 5560)

 

[mi7chy]

With mi7chy, his central thesis rarely extends beyond “Apple sux”

Link to post where I said "Apple sux"? You won't because it's your lie. Dispelling BS so those on the sideline have facts to base their purchasing decision on is your interpretation of "Apple sux". You're not a real Apple fanboy anyway. Do you own Apple equipment dating back to 1970s?

 

[Queen6]

I would argue that the 15“/16“ MBP also qualifies as pro machine (using the industry nomenclature) since for all intends and purposes it’s very similar to mobile workstations such as HP Zbook or Dell Precision.

Of course, starting on Monday the 14“ will also likely qualify as a workstation laptop (as its likely to be more capable than Precision 5560)

Is just a moniker, nor does the current 16" reach the standards of the HP Zbook or Dell Precision as they have specific criterion that Apple simply does not offer.

As ever don't take it to heart too much as it's not a criticism more an observation. As said the smart professional chooses the best tools for the job, i.e. most cost effective irrespective of platform or provider.

Q-6

 

[leman]

Is just a moniker, nor does the current 16" reach the standards of the HP Zbook or Dell Precision as they have specific criterion that Apple simply does not offer.

Oh, I don’t take this as a criticism. I am curious what standards are those however. I was under impression that workstation laptops are usually characterized by having a more strict quality policy on internal components (esp. power delivery), use hardware switches instead of software solutions to implement GPU switching, have high-speed connectivity, more color accurate displays displays and better port surge protection than consumer laptops. Larger Mac laptops tick all those boxes.

 

[crazy dave]

Link to post where I said "Apple sux"? You won't because it's your lie. Dispelling BS so those on the sideline have facts to base their purchasing decision on is your interpretation of "Apple sux". You're not a real Apple fanboy anyway. Do you own Apple equipment dating back to 1970s?

Uh huh. People can read man. Even this thread. Just this thread. I mean dispelling BS, really? After what you’ve tried to pull about benchmarks consistently on this forum? Again even in this thread? How many times have you posted that exact same post despite being told why it’s wrong? Plus people on the sidelines? This is a tech forum. Yeah there are lurkers even on threads away from the main news articles, but honestly? No, you’re not fighting the good fight here to let the masses know the truth.

Even more galling is that you do know better. I’ve read a lot of your posts and you’re clearly a technical person. You do or should know what you’re talking about.

But you are right about one thing: I’m not a real Apple fanboy not by a long shot.

 

[Queen6]

Oh, I don’t take this as a criticism. I am curious what standards are those however. I was under impression that workstation laptops are usually characterized by having a more strict quality policy on internal components (esp. power delivery), use hardware switches instead of software solutions to implement GPU switching, have high-speed connectivity, more color accurate displays displays and better port surge protection than consumer laptops. Larger Mac laptops tick all those boxes.

It's more on the line of SW qualification hence Xeon & ECC to ensure integrity. I don't want to get into an argument as I'm done with that...

Apple provides consumer based products that can equally work in the professional realm. I like Apple I Seriously do, equally I'm a very much pragmatist. The device must serve the need and suit the purpose. Sorry blindly stating Apple is better only serves to denigrate the brand not enhance....

Q-6

 

[leman]

It's more on the line of SW qualification hence Xeon & ECC to ensure integrity. I don't want to get into an argument as I'm done with that...

Precision 5560 does not have Xeons or ECC (same for most except very premium Zbooks). It does have a pro Nvidia GPU but the same can be argued about AMD custom pro Radeon line for Apple. Point being that if Dell or HP can sell $2500 laptops with regular parts but better build quality as workstations, why can’t Apple?

It’s totally cool btw. if you don’t want to talk about this, I was just curious (since you obviously know more about this market than me).

 

[Queen6]

Precision 5560 does not have Xeons or ECC (same for most except very premium Zbooks). It does have a pro Nvidia GPU but the same can be argued about AMD custom pro Radeon line for Apple. Point being that if Dell or HP can sell $2500 laptops with regular parts but better build quality as workstations, why can’t Apple?

It’s totally cool btw. if you don’t want to talk about this, I was just curious (since you obviously know more about this market than me).

TBH I think it's too involved and emotional for you. Too me computers are just tools to do a job, I still have a lowly Acer Switch 5 with an i3 CPU, equally it performs superbly in it's role. It remains to do what I expect and cost buttons.

TLDR were on the same side, with different perspectives...

Q-6

 

[januarydrive7]

TBH I think it's too involved and emotional for you. Too me computers are just tools to do a job, I still have a lowly Acer Switch 5 with an i3 CPU, equally it performs superbly in it's role. It remains to do what I what I expect and cost buttons.

TLDR were on the same side, with different perspectives...

Q-6

I know I'm not in the middle of this, but my reading of @leman's posts gave me the impression of honest dialog, not argumentation. I may be wrong, but I don't think he was trying to get into any heated debate.

 

[crazy dave]

I know I'm not in the middle of this, but my reading of @leman's posts gave me the impression of honest dialog, not argumentation. I may be wrong, but I don't think he was trying to get into any heated debate.

I agree and actually @Queen6 if you have the time I’d like to know more as well - I’m interested! You could just post links to descriptive resources if that’s faster or more efficient to share on the forum.

 

[Queen6]

I agree and actually @Queen6 if you have the time I’d like to know more as well - I’m interested! You could just post links to descriptive resources if that’s faster or more efficient to share on the forum.

Already linked in previous posts, if you don't believe don't buy...

Q-6

 

[crazy dave]

Already linked in previous posts, if you don't believe don't buy...

Q-6

You did? Sorry I missed the link.

Tired brain: I’m still having troubling finding which post has the link. Sorry I mean like a url to a description of the software qualification - is it a formal certification thing? Like this computer can do X for Y time without loss or corruption of data or breakdown of parts? Or can run software type Z better or at all? Obviously Xeons/Epycs, ECC, and other hardware, like GPUs, with professional drivers and larger FP units can would qualify. Something like that?