M1 chip fast my ass...

[elvisimprsntr]

It's called progress, people.

"Lead, follow, or get the [redacted] out of the way!" - Gen. Patton

 

[vir]

Another transition will come.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I conducted a scientific test where I ran over an M1 MBP and a Dell laptop with a car. Upon inspecting the laptops there were NO INTEL STICKERS ON THE M1 MBP! So, clearly, Apple’s got a LONG way to go to match Dell in this critically important metric.

Thinking of starting a YouTube series to point that out. Gotta be worth, I don’t know, a few hundred thousand subs and the content would be easy to produce AND memeable.

 

[jeanlain]

How often are people doing cold boots? For years on Windows, its suspend modes didn’t always work but it has improved to the point where I don’t understand why cold boot performance is all that important.

I cold boot every day.

 

[LoveTo]

The post is already roasted thoroughly, and rightfully so, but just adding my 2 cents. In case of Mac, you’d use the boot up maybe like 2-3 times a year. So losing some 10 seconds of time combined. That PC is optimized for boot up likely because you need it that often.

 

[casperes1996]

The whole OSS community is a treasure for every user on any platform. The existence of OSS, is a huge reason that not everyone have to "get locked by Apple" or "get locked by Microsoft". As a Linux Desktop user, I do have the habit to find open-source alternative for almost everything I use because Linux Desktop is only 1% in the statistics make most closed source software developers don't even consider to support.

Think discussing with vir on this is a lost cause
They seem to suggest it's Apple's way or the high way, but I've written loads of software that compiles both on a Linux x86 box and an M1 Mac with 0 changes. Not using Xcode or anything like that, just POSIX compliant C and GCC. - But on the flip side, I've also written tools in Swift that use CoreFoundation, written in Xcode that will also compile on a Linux machine, because ey, open, Swift will work just fine on Linux. Darwin XNU is still open source too. Not collaboratively developed, but open source regardless. M1 is no more locked down than an x86 Mac. Neither are PCs. An Intel Mac with a T2 chip will also need to be treated slightly differently by the boot loader and kernel than a generic PC. The architecture change isn't really a change, and as you pointed out earlier, the development effort in porting software to the Mac, in the vast majority of cases, has very very very little, if anything at all, to do with the CPU architecture. Apple has also said that Bootcamp isn't ruled out for Apple Silicon; The ball's in Microsoft's court for that.
The Mac is a Mac but it's also a fully compliant UNIX system and that doesn't change with the new instruction set.
I have several PowerPC Macs and on the front of Rosetta, if we go by history, it's not a year or two till it goes away. The PPC->Intel Rosetta lasted for five and a half years. It went away when it was no longer needed by 99.9% of users.

As for the Steam conversation, first of all, not all games crossed out by Steam for being 32-bit are *actually* 32-bit. They're just configured incorrectly in their Steam database. They will run just fine.
Second, there's still a wealth of games that are supported, but sure. Some were lost. We also can't run 8 or 16 bit software anymore unless we run it through an emulator similar. I'm all for software archival but I'd rather have a system that optimally does what I use it for 99.9% of the time than one that runs poorly or has security flaws just to support software written 3 decades ago and that hasn't been maintained since the Apple ][ stopped being sold. Even Microsoft realised they had to eventually drop 16-bit support and with Windows 11 are officially killing off support for a lot of hardware configurations, though technically speaking they haven't ripped out anything that prevents it from working yet. I wonder if Windows still contains code to trap floating point instructions on x86 chips that don't have an x87 unit and replaces them with software routines... Just in case you want to run Windows on an 80386 without an x87 add-on.

x86-64 was invented in the late 90s. The first chip saw a commercial release in 2003. ARM officially ripped out 32-bit support in hardware from their newer core designs; Apple did this a while ago, IIRC with the A7. Building software that is not 64-bit has been dumb for a long, long time.

 

[u_int16]

Windows still boots much faster from cold boot. In my case ~5-7 seconds for windows (sata ssd), ~20 seconds macos (nvme), same machine. It's probably apfs/trim that slows macos boot down but who knows exactly.

A large part is secure boot and disk encryption. We also only see the boot to login, which isnt the full boot process. You still need to get into your user, and even then stuff is loading in the background.
Furthermore, not all “boots” are equal. Sometimes a boot is from a sleep state, even if you dont know it. Sometimes it does a lot of hardware checks. Sometimes it doesnt.

this “test” tells us exactly 0 other than “that time, the windows machine got to the login screen faster”.

real hard hitting journalism.

 

[PlainBelliedSneetch]

I cold boot every day.

Weird, my macs only get cold booted when there are updates.

 

[bousozoku]

don't fall for the hype

Oh, wow. My mid-2012 3rd generation quad core i7 MacBook Pro boots just as fast as my 2018 Omen by HP 7th generation quad core i7.

 

[CE3]

I don’t have to fall for the hype.. I just use my M1 Air and get to be regularly impressed by its fanless performance and battery life. Even Windows users should be excited about Apple Silicon. It’s a huge leap forward and has shaken up the competition.

 

[Mr. Awesome]

Also, this comparison has a lot to do with macOS vs Windows’ boot processes. From my understanding, shutting down Windows isn’t a true shutdown, and functions as more of a Hibernate, where the kernel and RAM are saved to disk and then recalled when you start up again, instead of being restarted from scratch.

 

[elptdbi3lYI]

A large part is secure boot and disk encryption. We also only see the boot to login, which isnt the full boot process. You still need to get into your user, and even then stuff is loading in the background.
Furthermore, not all “boots” are equal. Sometimes a boot is from a sleep state, even if you dont know it. Sometimes it does a lot of hardware checks. Sometimes it doesnt.

this “test” tells us exactly 0 other than “that time, the windows machine got to the login screen faster”.

real hard hitting journalism.

I don't have encryption on either and as I've said it's cold boot. Really though, there's no need to get all defensive about it, it's just one area where windows is objectively superior.

 

[TopToffee]

Thank you for the wonderful compliment, hopefully Apple promises to never wipe out compatibility or disruptively transition ever ever again! They did before, so many times, but it's probably okay now. This has to be the one, yeah? this is where things change

Possibly not, in another decade plus they might make another change… but you deciding that their move is creating their own instruction set is an exercise in creative writing, absolutely nothing more.

 

[cocoua]

windows boot faster than os x, moreover if you are rebooting.

 

[sgtaylor5]

You know right Windows 10 isn’t actually fully shut down when it’s shutdown? It’s just go to hibernates mode and save the current state so it’s would boost faster. If you want to truly reset the system you have to click “Reset” not “Shut down”. Why Microsoft chooses to do this? Because they know Windows users get use to shutting down their devices every time they use the device. So it’s seems like Windows actually boots up faster from “shut down” because it’s actually not. It’s a fake shut down.

Mac truly restart the whole system when it’s boots from shut down.

Oh! I actually have a Lenovo laptop with 11th gen i5 along side with my M1 MacBook Air and sometimes It’s still have wake up from a cold sleep for more than 10 seconds when I leave the device sleep too long. But my MacBook Air always wakes up instantly from long sleep.

The problems I've seen with "Fast Boot", otherwise known as hybrid boot; it remembers everything, including badly stored data, which reproduces itself on next "boot". Try to get the hybrid boot system to forget the mistakes!! It's very hard, but doable, if you have lots of patience.

 

[neuropsychguy]

Alright, well I'm wrong then about the raw performance, no shame in admitting that. But it remains true that there is so very, very, very little to run on M1 processors compared to the incalculable wealth of x86 software out there. This is normal right now obviously, but despite the hopium everyone's on regarding the M1, there is still going to be a staggering and permanent loss in the total capability of the Mac as a platform due to developers choosing to not port their apps (it will be this way, they are not all ready and excitedly waiting to port port port at Apple's whim... what next, dropping the Arm instruction set for an Apple custom set? It never ends), not to mention the cataclysmic loss that recently occurred due to the death of 32-bit execution already. And just wait until the Rosetta 2 death hammer comes down. Macs are fast becoming the computer to run essentially Apple pro apps and Photoshop/Illustrator and not much else.

M2 comes out: Well guys... we could... test Photoshop again?

Thank you for providing a chuckle. This is great satire.

 

[u_int16]

I don't have encryption on either and as I've said it's cold boot. Really though, there's no need to get all defensive about it, it's just one area where windows is objectively superior.

Oh my mistake, I was trying to agree with you I think. My dig was at the OP's video.

 

[Shirasaki]

But you CAN chain loading. Craig's statement is saying that Apple will not put effort to "support" that use case, but they did allow you to downgrade the booting security to an extent that any OS kernel can load.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1432927311058194436

And ruin a bunch of handy features along with it (Apple pay). So yeah, you can, just not the level people thought it might be.

Btw, M1 Mac never truly turn off, only into some sort of deep sleep mode. Even fingers moving on trackpad or pressing space bar turns on the Mac.

 

[Shirasaki]

Hehe, alright then. Guess you weren't around for PPC to Intel. Although funnily enough that transition was a massive gain in ability to run software. Now when Rosetta 2 gets pulled this time around and removes ALL x86 execution ability, it'll be a devastating loss (just the removal of 32-bit was enough to murder everyone's Steam library into almost nothing). Devout Mac followers perhaps won't feel it, because they work within the safety lines of what Apple provides for them, they tell you what is safe and what is good and what is correct. Use our hardware, use our APIs, use Xcode, use our standards and practices, use Apple pro apps, use Apple services, use bundled Apple apps for your productivity and entertainment needs, make sure everything is done according to the Apple Way. Thank you for your patronage and your loyalty. Do not look over there at what they are doing, stop that. That stuff doesn't work on Macs anyway. We will provide for you.

Although I am happy to hear the M1 is getting a wide selection of open source. Hopefully you can find something useful in that grab bag.

They are the pusher to turn Mac into yet another glorified iOS. I still hold my claim that Mac lockdown will happen regardless of what Craig says.

 

[Vazor]

That bootup comparison is kinda dumb, but real-world non-Geekbench tests show the M1 is not exactly the apex everyone seems to dream it is (no, it's just more proprietary and locked-down):

Those benchmarks were running on Rosetta.

 

[UnicornsOnLSD]

Replace Mojave Intel Mac with “any Intel PC” and you can say the same thing.

But I can somehow understand your point, x86 softwares are accessible by most users, so it may seems like there are “wealth of x86 software”. However, as a developer, I can tell you that there is not that much “architecture dependent” code because most of us are writing high-level code which hide the CPU specific stuff and can automatically make our code run on different CPUs(most of the time). There are more “(Software)platform dependent code” than “(Hardware)architecture dependent code”. By using the same CPU architecture does not make it easier to port a software for another OS. Most Windows software are compiled for x86-64 because most Windows computers run on that architecture, but Linux has a completely different division of CPU architecture support which is not bound to x86 at all as there are so many non-x86 machines runs Linux.

macOS follows the similar pattern, when enough users are on arm64, macOS software will be compiled for arm64. It is OK to lose some vintage software, just like it’s OK to not run PPC software on an Intel Mac.

The amount of people who have no idea what they're talking about when they bring up "porting" programs is amazing. They talk as if everything is handwritten x86 assembly. In reality, 99.99% of programs can be compiled for ARM just by changing the target architecture in the compiler.

 

[lJoSquaredl]

Definitely don't care much for a fast boot, probably the least important time for speed tho it's still fast. Regardless of that tho, I edited some 4k video recently and it was blazing fast while taxing the system pretty hard. Most impressive for a computer with no fans that's around $1500 cheaper than my last laptop that was slower and could barely do some stuff like HEVC 10-bit exporting without blowing smoke out the back. (and it even stays cool while doing most of that to boot lol)

The best benchmark is real work, and it's turning my workflow into butter...and the M1X will just magnify that even more, can't wait

 

[casperes1996]

The amount of people who have no idea what they're talking about when they bring up "porting" programs is amazing. They talk as if everything is handwritten x86 assembly. In reality, 99.99% of programs can be compiled for ARM just by changing the target architecture in the compiler.

You have to be kidding me?! It's possible to write code in other ways than this?!

/s

Full disclosure; The above code is from the following GitHub repo, and is not my won. I've written a fair bit of assembly for various reasons but this was the nearest thing I had ready and worked for the joke - plus it's an awesome repo, so if you're interested in bare metal boot up, bootloader and low level x86 development, do check it out:

GitHub - cirosantilli/x86-bare-metal-examples: Dozens of minimal operating systems to learn x86 system programming. Tested on Ubuntu 17.10 host in QEMU 2.10 and real hardware. Userland cheat at: https://github.com/cirosantilli/linux-kernel-module-che

Dozens of minimal operating systems to learn x86 system programming. Tested on Ubuntu 17.10 host in QEMU 2.10 and real hardware. Userland cheat at: https://github.com/cirosantilli/linux-kernel-modu...

github.com

 

[TiggrToo]

This can be nothing else but a lie. It would be statistically impossible that you have 200 games, all somehow miraculously 64-bit purchases, and upon opening Steam in Catalina you didn't notice almost all of them were crossed out as incompatible right there in the library list. I don't know why it's necessary to play that down. It's what drove me to leave Mac, in fact.

And as far as developer interest in those Apple GPUs, good luck courting them after Apple just keeps flipping the finger and killing their software every generation. They will need to source from the well of younger more naive iOS-first developers. Y'all get ready for the next two blows: the dropping of Rosetta 2, and the transition from the Arm instruction set to the Apple proprietary instruction set (because Nvidia bad or something).

I’ve about 50-60 games. I lost about 5 of them in the 32 bit purge.

Your claim of “statistically impossible” is pure conjecture.

 

[TiggrToo]

You have to be kidding me?! It's possible to write code in other ways than this?! View attachment 1861956
/s

Full disclosure; The above code is from the following GitHub repo, and is not my won. I've written a fair bit of assembly for various reasons but this was the nearest thing I had ready and worked for the joke - plus it's an awesome repo, so if you're interested in bare metal boot up, bootloader and low level x86 development, do check it out:

GitHub - cirosantilli/x86-bare-metal-examples: Dozens of minimal operating systems to learn x86 system programming. Tested on Ubuntu 17.10 host in QEMU 2.10 and real hardware. Userland cheat at: https://github.com/cirosantilli/linux-kernel-module-che

Dozens of minimal operating systems to learn x86 system programming. Tested on Ubuntu 17.10 host in QEMU 2.10 and real hardware. Userland cheat at: https://github.com/cirosantilli/linux-kernel-modu...

github.com

Real coders use pure hexadecimal - non of this ASM mnemonic crap that the junior script-kiddies use