M1 Mac External Display - Fuzzy Fonts & Colors - YPBPR vs RGB

[amitdel]

Hi All!

Long time windows users transitioning to Mac. Old setup was a Dell Latitude hooked up to a Dell Ultrasharp U2415, one at home, and the other at work (laptop carried to and fro).

Bought a M1 Macbook Air, and am absolutely thrilled with the performance, and with the fluidity of the machine, and the intuitiveness of MacOS.

Problem: When I connected the same monitor to the Macbook, colors looked a bit "off" (slightly distorted hues, unsatisfactory blacks and whites), and fonts looked a bit blurred and unappealing.

Checking various threads here (and elsewhere), I realized the issue is that the Macbook Air and the Dell are talking in "YPBPR" instead of RGB mode i.e. the monitor seems to be detected as a TV (The Dell's OSD shows mode as YPBPR).

Apparently, there exists a workaround by changing the EDID profile, but that process doesn't seem to work with the M1 flavor of Macs yet.

UPDATE: The process to fix the RGB issue via EDID override on Apple Silicon Macs exists for quite some time now - check out the step-by-step instructions here: https://github.com/waydabber/BetterDisplay/discussions/1473#discussioncomment-4896209

As I presume a lot of people bought M1 Mac Minis (which would mandatorily need an external display; and thus some resolution of this issue), what's working for you guys?

a) Is there some modified variation of the EDID fix (either in pipeline, or available straight out?)
b) Does some combination of cable ports solve this issue consistently? (I am using HDMI to HDMI connected via a port).
c) Any software based solutions? (heard about SwitchResX for resolution fixes)
d) Are there some (reasonably priced!) monitors which reliably work with the M1s in RGB mode? (Last Resort!)

All the threads I read documented this problem, but there seemed not to be any resolution. And yet, given the sheer number of M1s Mac Minis out there, I am sure many people have arrived at some fix for this YPBPR vs RGB issue.

I tested a bunch of other monitors and cables as well, but atleast for me, I am consistently getting YPBPR, and thus the color and fuzziness issue. I would strongly prefer to continue using my 24 inch Ultrasharps, as I am otherwise very happy with those.

Would be grateful to crowdsource a solution here!

Cheers & Regards
Amit

 

[aednichols]

Hi Amit,

I have just come in to the same problem. Long time Mac and Ultrasharp user here; have a U2713HM and U3219Q in the lab for testing.

The two Intel MacBooks I have work great, RGB on both displays. The M1 does not, even when I apply the EDID fix.

I'm still in the return period for both the U3219Q and the M1 MacBook Air, so I do have some options.

Best,
Adam

 

[aednichols]

Hi All!

Long time windows users transitioning to Mac. Old setup was a Dell Latitude hooked up to a Dell Ultrasharp U2415, one at home, and the other at work (laptop carried to and fro).

Bought a M1 Macbook Air, and am absolutely thrilled with the performance, and with the fluidity of the machine, and the intuitiveness of MacOS.

Problem: When I connected the same monitor to the Macbook, colors looked a bit "off" (slightly distorted hues, unsatisfactory blacks and whites), and fonts looked a bit blurred and unappealing.

Checking various threads here (and elsewhere), I realized the issue is that the Macbook Air and the Dell are talking in "YPBPR" instead of RGB mode i.e. the monitor seems to be detected as a TV (The Dell's OSD shows mode as YPBPR).

Apparently, there exists a workaround by changing the EDID profile, but that process doesn't seem to work with the M1 flavor of Macs yet.

As I presume a lot of people bought M1 Mac Minis (which would mandatorily need an external display; and thus some resolution of this issue), what's working for you guys?

a) Is there some modified variation of the EDID fix (either in pipeline, or available straight out?)
b) Does some combination of cable ports solve this issue consistently? (I am using HDMI to HDMI connected via a port).
c) Any software based solutions? (heard about SwitchResX for resolution fixes)
d) Are there some (reasonably priced!) monitors which reliably work with the M1s in RGB mode? (Last Resort!)

All the threads I read documented this problem, but there seemed not to be any resolution. And yet, given the sheer number of M1s Mac Minis out there, I am sure many people have arrived at some fix for this YPBPR vs RGB issue.

I tested a bunch of other monitors and cables as well, but atleast for me, I am consistently getting YPBPR, and thus the color and fuzziness issue. I would strongly prefer to continue using my 24 inch Ultrasharps, as I am otherwise very happy with those.

Would be grateful to crowdsource a solution here!

Cheers & Regards
Amit

To offer an actually helpful suggestion, DisplayPort does often work better than HDMI. A USB-C to DisplayPort cable can be had quite cheaply. That said, that's what I'm using with my M1 Air and it does not help this particular problem.

 

[jazz1]

Hi Amit,

I have just come in to the same problem. Long time Mac and Ultrasharp user here; have a U2713HM and U3219Q in the lab for testing.

The two Intel MacBooks I have work great, RGB on both displays. The M1 does not, even when I apply the EDID fix.

I'm still in the return period for both the U3219Q and the M1 MacBook Air, so I do have some options.

Best,
Adam

Well I have to admit I thought my two Dell Displays were not as sharp as my 2015 iMac. Note the Dell U2719D did look sharper IMHO when driven from my iMac vs. the M1 MacMini. I've included a screenshot to be honest I don't really know what the captured data means. If anyone can enlighten me as to the difference is sharpness please let me know. It also might help others.

 

[aednichols]

Filed FB8946046 through Feedback Assistant. I encourage anyone affected to also file, referencing this number.

Make sure your problematic display is connected at the time of writing the feedback so that it is present in the system profile sent to Apple.

 

[aednichols]

Well I have to admit I thought my two Dell Displays were not as sharp as my 2015 iMac. Note the Dell U2719D did look sharper IMHO when driven from my iMac vs. the M1 MacMini. I've included a screenshot to be honest I don't really know what the captured data means. If anyone can enlighten me as to the difference is sharpness please let me know. It also might help others. View attachment 1697682

Please check the OSD on your Dell for the color mode and compare between Intel and M1. YPbPr bad, RGB good.

 

[amitdel]

@aednichols @jazz1 Thanks for the responses guys

I am sure there is a huge base of folks using M1 Mac Minis, and atleast some would have figured out a solution for this issue? If I work with YPbPr colors, I get eye fatigue in 30 minutes, in addition to the display appearing less pleasing overall. YMMV

Would love to get inputs from the reviewer community as well, as to whether they are seeing RGB or YPbPr

@aednichols - thanks for that useful suggestion about the Feedback Assistant route - will do that as suggested, and in the meanwhile, am very very curious as to the feeback from M1 Mac mini owners, and others using external displays with M1 machines

Cheers

 

[aednichols]

I am sure there is a huge base of folks using M1 Mac Minis, and atleast some would have figured out a solution for this issue? I find the YPbPr colors completely unacceptable for extended work sessions!

I don't think a community solution is too likely, we will have to wait for Apple.

The community solutions so far have been based around writing industry-standard EDID ("external display ID") files that get read by the OS.

It appears that the OS on M1 has ceased to interpret that data correctly.

 

[jazz1]

Please check the OSD on your Dell for the color mode and compare between Intel and M1. YPbPr bad, RGB good.

View attachment 1697687

Well as luck would have it I have the same Dell monitor on my iMac as a second screen, and the first one on the M1 MacMini. I will check tomorrow and report. Should there be a RGB choice, or does it just reflect what the M1 is not capable of supporting RGB?

 

[Ninja Dom]

Hi guys.

Just got my M1 Mac Mini today. I was a long term iMac 27” user (1440p).

First thing I noticed was just how much blurrier the picture and the font was on the Mac Mini. I’m hooked up to a 32” monitor via Display Port, 1440p @ 120Hz. And I have to say that the picture so far looks noticeably worse than the 27” iMac I used for 10 years.

Gonna tweak the monitor some more but I’m not sure what the problem could be.

 

[aednichols]

Well as luck would have it I have the same Dell monitor on my iMac as a second screen, and the first one on the M1 MacMini. I will check tomorrow and report. Should there be a RGB choice, or does it just reflect what the M1 is not capable of supporting RGB?

The monitor automatically detects what signal it is receiving, and shows that in the on-screen display.

If you drill down into it, there is an override option where you can manually change it. However, the choice only affects how the monitor interprets the received signal and cannot control what the computer puts out. It is harmless to switch it; the display will go crazy colors which is kind of fun.

 

[Sarpanch]

I have been anxiously waiting for the EDID Patch writers to create an M1 Mac version of the script but nothing so far.

A script to fix EDID problems on external monitors in macOS

A script to fix EDID problems on external monitors in macOS - patch-edid.md

gist.github.com

and

patch-edid.rb

GitHub Gist: instantly share code, notes, and snippets.

gist.github.com

Using a Dell U2518D with M1 Mac Mini and tried every cable combination possible but it always outputs in YPbPr output.

 

[aednichols]

I have been anxiously waiting for the EDID Patch writers to create an M1 Mac version of the script but nothing so far.

A script to fix EDID problems on external monitors in macOS

A script to fix EDID problems on external monitors in macOS - patch-edid.md

gist.github.com

and

patch-edid.rb

GitHub Gist: instantly share code, notes, and snippets.

gist.github.com

Using a Dell U2518D with M1 Mac Mini and tried every cable combination possible but it always outputs in YPbPr output.

I'm a programmer though not an operating system programmer; I suspect we are high and dry until we see action from Apple. We can't force the closed-source, compiled OS code to start reading EDIDs correctly again by doing anything external to the OS. I'd love to be proven otherwise but this is the basis for my purchasing decisions right now.

 

[jazz1]

I'm a programmer though not an operating system programmer; I suspect we are high and dry until we see action from Apple. We can't force the closed-source, compiled OS code to start reading EDIDs correctly again by doing anything external to the OS. I'd love to be proven otherwise but this is the basis for my purchasing decisions right now.

How can Apple let this kind of issue roll out to the public?

 

[JohnnyGo]

How can Apple let this kind of issue roll out to the public?

There has been some monitor issues and they should not have been any (or most)

But from my understanding this specific issue is more how Dell monitors behave (they have a “TV” mode) than Apple’s. And Intel Macs have similar issues with these monitors.

 

[JohnnyGo]

I’m waiting for my Mac Mini and hoping there will be no problem connecting to my 4K IPS monitor. Fingers crossed

 

[aednichols]

How can Apple let this kind of issue roll out to the public?

Software is never perfect.

Bug fixes get prioritized roughly according to ( number of users affected ) x ( severity of impact on each user ).

This one probably doesn't score that high, truth be told.

 

[Ninja Dom]

Found this Macrumors article on blurry fonts.

How to Adjust or Disable Font Smoothing in macOS Big Sur

If you recently installed macOS Big Sur and you're wondering why the text looks blurry on your display, it could be because font smoothing is...

www.macrumors.com

 

[JohnnyGo]

Found this Macrumors article on blurry fonts.

How to Adjust or Disable Font Smoothing in macOS Big Sur

If you recently installed macOS Big Sur and you're wondering why the text looks blurry on your display, it could be because font smoothing is...

www.macrumors.com

That’s helpful. Thanks

 

[aednichols]

The display I originally wanted but couldn't get is back in stock: LG 27GN950-B

The Internet shows no evidence of LGs having YPbPr problems with Macs.

I'm gonna return the Dell while I can.

 

[amitdel]

Hi Adam

Good to see you have some resolution on the issue. Please keep us all posted on the performance with LG.

At my end, I tested with the various monitors at hand :

Dell U2415
Dell P2219H
Dell E2418HN
Samsung Syncmaster (a pretty old model).

I got YPbPr throughout (samsung OSD would not report on the mode, but the colors seem to indicate so).

Interestingly, the Dell U2415 has an additional mode under Gamma : Mac vs PC, but the Mac option just brings it at par with the display on the other monitors in the above list.

@Ninja Dom - I tried the font smoothing, and while it helps a bit with the fonts, Colors, UI and other elements still appear problematic to the extent I would not be comfortable working long durations (This is not fussiness - comparing side by side with a RGB setup is a huge difference, atleast for me; without being able to pinpoint to a specific issue).

Guys, do you think this problem is exacerbated with Dell? It would be great to get inputs from M1 Mac Mini users with other brands - are you guys seeing RGB or YPbPr, and are you happy compared to the previous display quality?

Please share your monitor brands / models.

At my end, I don't have the option to buy and return monitors, hence the request here. Thanks in advance for the help!

Warm Regards
Amit

 

[Ninja Dom]

@amitdel I just got my M1 Mac Mini this weekend gone. I’m using it with this monitor. It’s not that sophisticated but it does the job.

Resolution is set to 1440p at 120Hz with HDR turned on. I believe that I’m getting YPbPr from everything you’ve described earlier but I’m not able to tell. My monitor doesn’t have its own Mac software and going through the monitor menus don’t tell me anything. I do also have a problem with the blurry fonts.

 

[deeddawg]

Hi Adam

Good to see you have some resolution on the issue. Please keep us all posted on the performance with LG.

At my end, I tested with the various monitors at hand :

Dell U2415
Dell P2219H
Dell E2418HN
Samsung Syncmaster (a pretty old model).

I got YPbPr throughout (samsung OSD would not report on the mode, but the colors seem to indicate so).

Interestingly, the Dell U2415 has an additional mode under Gamma : Mac vs PC, but the Mac option just brings it at par with the display on the other monitors in the above list.

@Ninja Dom - I tried the font smoothing, and while it helps a bit with the fonts, Colors, UI and other elements still appear problematic to the extent I would not be comfortable working long durations (This is not fussiness - comparing side by side with a RGB setup is a huge difference, atleast for me; without being able to pinpoint to a specific issue).

Guys, do you think this problem is exacerbated with Dell? It would be great to get inputs from M1 Mac Mini users with other brands - are you guys seeing RGB or YPbPr, and are you happy compared to the previous display quality?

Please share your monitor brands / models.

At my end, I don't have the option to buy and return monitors, hence the request here. Thanks in advance for the help!

Warm Regards
Amit

Do any of your Dell monitors have a "Sharpness" adjustment under the "Display" portion of the monitor OSD controls?

If so, try tweaking that.

0%

50%


100%

 

[Krevnik]

Please check the OSD on your Dell for the color mode and compare between Intel and M1. YPbPr bad, RGB good.

More accurately, YPbPr 422 bad. YPbPr 444 doesn't suffer from the lack of chroma detail that 422 does. That said, it does seem like everyone having issues is somehow getting kicked into 422 mode for some reason. That seems like a bad bug.

But yes, RGB is ideal.

 

[n0dragon]

I have a Mac mini M1 and Dell U2720Q, and I am now able to get the RGB mode working. You need a spare Intel Mac. Here is what I did.

1. Connect the monitor with the Intel Mac.
2. Use the script https://gist.github.com/adaugherity/7435890 to generate the EDID patch on the Intel Mac. Since the script only works on Intel Macs and not M1 ones, you can only generate the file on the Intel Mac.
3. Disconnect the monitor from the Intel Mac and connect it to the M1 Mac.
4. Transfer the whole folder to the M1 Mac, and place it into /Library/Displays/Contents/Resources/Overrides directory. Create the directory if it does not exist before.
5. Go to display settings on the M1 Mac, and turn OFF HDR (this is the most important step. Turning on HDR will always output YPbPr to the Dell monitor).
6. In the Dell monitor, set colour preset mode to Standard, and set Smart HDR to DisplayHDR (if set to Disable, sometimes it won't work).
7. Restart the M1 Mac.

After restart, my monitor is showing RGB as the colour mode. Now is the most interesting part. I had to delete that override folder, otherwise the next restart my Mac mini will revert back to use YPbPr again.

8. Delete the override folder inside /Library/Displays/Contents/Resources/Overrides directory, and restart the M1 Mac again.