M1 Max vs M2 Pro? (M2 mini vs M1 Studio)

[slothinker]

On the bright side, I think it was only a few years ago that it seemed the Mac Mini was doomed because it hadn't been upgraded in, what?, 5-6 years? Still hoping for a iMac 27-inch but it seems that Apple has decided that mix-and-match is either better for them or for the environment. After I see the numbers I'll likely sell my 2017 iMac and go w/ one of these modular guys.

Disappointed that memory cannot be upgraded easily by the end user. That's option would definitely be good for the environment.

 

[fakestrawberryflavor]

Can anyone explain what’s the deal with 10 GB bandwidth? I mean I get a 1gig Internet service but I am extremely sure that comcast is not gonna be giving me anything more at a better value

So how does that get use?

I have 2GB Symmetrical fiber for Internet, and I have an on LAN local NAS with a 10GB port. Been on multi gig lan for a while already.

 

[Pressure]

M2 Max 30c - 10.7 TFLOPS, 400GB/s
M1 Max 32c - 10.6 TFLOPS, 400GB/s

M1 Pro	14-core GPU	4.55 TFlops
M1 Pro	16-core GPU	5.2 TFlops	+14%
M2 Pro	16-core GPU	5.76 TFlops	+27%
M2 Pro	19-core GPU	6.84 TFlops	+50%

M1 Max	24-core GPU	7.8 TFlops
M1 Max	32-core GPU	10.4 TFlops	+33%
M2 Max	30-core GPU	10.8 TFlops	+39%
M2 Max	38-core GPU	13.68 TFlops	+75%

 

[Samadaeus]

thank you all very much for your time and feedback.

So I have one last question in regards to the LAN, this is primarily through ethernet cables, correct?

And from my understanding, the receiver, sender , and the cable have to be on the 10 GB level, right?

Just trying to see if I should consider adding it, or if it’s dependent on society as a whole leveling up to a universal 10g standard type of thing, similar to what’s finally occurring with USB-C ports for chargers

 

[fakestrawberryflavor]

thank you all very much for your time and feedback.

So I have one last question in regards to the LAN, this is primarily through ethernet cables, correct?

And from my understanding, the receiver, sender , and the cable have to be on the 10 GB level, right?

Just trying to see if I should consider adding it, or if it’s dependent on society as a whole leveling up to a universal 10g standard type of thing, similar to what’s finally occurring with USB-C ports for chargers

You need a 10GB switch also, 10GB ethernet cables (although nearly all cables in recent times are capable of these speeds at home user lengths)

10GB switches can be expensive and older ones are hot and loud. Newer consumer stuff has a few multi gig (10, 5, 2.5) ports now tho.

 

[Samadaeus]

I have 2GB Symmetrical fiber for Internet, and I have an on LAN local NAS with a 10GB port. Been on multi gig lan for a while already.

Bruh without any hint of sarcasm, im seriously unaware of this , how do you use it in improve the day by day

 

[tstafford]

thank you all very much for your time and feedback.

So I have one last question in regards to the LAN, this is primarily through ethernet cables, correct?

And from my understanding, the receiver, sender , and the cable have to be on the 10 GB level, right?

Just trying to see if I should consider adding it, or if it’s dependent on society as a whole leveling up to a universal 10g standard type of thing, similar to what’s finally occurring with USB-C ports for chargers

My take - if you don't know you need it for LAN purposes, then you probably don't.

However I think more and more we will see high speed internet exceeding 1 GB/sec. We use Xfinity (or Comcast or whatever), have the 1.2 GB/sec service and can easily upgrade to 2 GB/sec if we wanted to. I'm glad I have a 10 GB port in my Studio.

Side note - I think the new Mini is really cool. I can say with near 100% confidence that the M2 Mini will be faster for web surfing than the M1 Pro (I experience this first hand in comparing my MBP14 to my M2 Air). However specced the way I would want it (M2 Pro, 32 GB, etc.) it costs the same as a refurb Studio and has less I/O and inferior display support. Low end Mini looks great, high end I'd go with Studio.

 

[fakestrawberryflavor]

Bruh without any hint of sarcasm, im seriously unaware of this , how do you use it in improve the day by day

I mean I work in Cybersecurity and upload and download VM images, ISOs, 40GB zip files. Just makes work faster.

I even have work pay for my home internet so, it's not even a cost for me personally. Just depends on what you need and what you do. If you are just browsing or watching YouTube, you won't even notice.

 

[theluggage]

I guess the M2 is "next gen", but the "Max" is likely faster than the "Pro" (these names...), not to mention probably better thermals and other stuff from the larger form factor.

I'd wait for the "real world" tests to start appearing. I'd say theres a chance that M2 Pro is actually going to be faster than the M1 Max in many types of application: in CPU terms the M2 Pro has got the same number of performance cores, more economy cores but they're all newer, faster cores. The M1 Max has more GPU cores but still only 24 in the base Studio vs. 19 in the M2 Pro and, again, the M2 GPU cores are newer and faster. ...but then there are factors like memory bandwidth and how well the cooling works in the Mini so its really hard to call.

What I do think is that the cheaper M2 Pro Minis - as well as the M2 Mini - are going to be very attractive to people who wanted something between the M1 Mini and the Studio, and didn't really need the M1 Max anyway.

 

[theluggage]

Oh, and don't worry folks. The M2 Max Mac Studio is Almost Certainly Coming.
...and so the wheel turns.

 

[robinp]

Personally, I think anyone contemplating a Mac Studio right now should wait. It’s so clearly end of life. The M2 Max exists in the MacBook Pro. So it’s just a matter of time until it makes it’s way into the Studio.

So maybe just wait for that. Then you get the best of both.

 

[Homy]

Personally, I think anyone contemplating a Mac Studio right now should wait. It’s so clearly end of life. The M2 Max exists in the MacBook Pro. So it’s just a matter of time until it makes it’s way into the Studio.

So maybe just wait for that. Then you get the best of both.

No, Mac Studio M2 will be at least 20% more expensive, at least outside the US, just like the new MBP M2 got a 21.6% price increase. So buy M1 if you don't need M2.

 

[Homy]

more economy cores

It's called efficiency cores.

 

[weezin]

I just bought a refurb base Studio with 1TB upgrade (~$1900) and got it yesterday. It was honestly overkill for my needs (heavy Lightroom use and some light 2D and 3D design), but I wanted the ports, SD slot, and performance overhead for long term use. I keep my computers for a long time generally.

Now seeing the M2 Pro Mini, I'm wondering whether I should return the Studio and get the Mini. I'm thinking of sticking with the Studio.

Studio pros (for me):
- More ports, including front-side ports and SD card slot
- Better thermal envelope
- More graphical capability, in case I ever want to get into something that would use that

Mini pros (for me):
- Smaller, easier to stick under monitor.
- Slightly cheaper for same specs (32GB ram, 1TB SSD, no processor or ethernet upgrade)
- Slightly (?) higher CPU performance
- Can save even more money if I go with 16GB of ram instead of 32GB.

Writing that out, I think the Studio is the right one for me, although it feels weird to be buying a device with a "last gen" processor! Any thoughts?

 

[Pressure]

No, Mac Studio M2 will be at least 20% more expensive, at least outside the US, just like the new MBP M2 got a 21.6% price increase. So buy M1 if you don't need M2.

The price dropped in Denmark for the new 14” and 16” MacBook Pro’s.
Blame the bad exchange rate of the Swedish Crown to the Dollar.

 

[theluggage]

It's called efficiency cores.

My name is better

 

[Homy]

M1 Pro	14-core GPU	4.55 TFlops
M1 Pro	16-core GPU	5.2 TFlops	+14%
M2 Pro	16-core GPU	5.76 TFlops	+27%
M2 Pro	19-core GPU	6.84 TFlops	+50%

M1 Max	24-core GPU	7.8 TFlops
M1 Max	32-core GPU	10.4 TFlops	+33%
M2 Max	30-core GPU	10.8 TFlops	+39%
M2 Max	38-core GPU	13.68 TFlops	+75%

As I said little difference in GPU performance between M2 30c and M1 32c, but it will be big difference pris-wise here in Sweden.

 

[Homy]

The M1 Max has more GPU cores but still only 24 in the base Studio vs. 19 in the M2 Pro and, again, the M2 GPU cores are newer and faster.

Mac Mini M2 Pro 19c - 6.8 TFLOPS, 200 GB/s
Mac Studio M1 Max 24c - 7.8 TFLOPS, 400GB/s

 

[dawnrazor]

Hey guys, long time reader first time writer. I was really hoping I can get more insight because I may have jumped the gun with this. So I’ve been stretching my 2016 MacBook Pro the best I could but over the last 3 years I’ve become a fullstack developer.
My MBP has done the best it’s could but after it’s first kernel panic .. I’m constantly having to reset pram and smc .

The reason I mention this is because I just want to elaborate how I’ve been waiting to buy the M2 Mac mini since the kernal panic that happens six months after the M1 Mac mini was released.

I tried to buy the Mac Studio when It came out, but I spent so much time trying to learn about it configurations, and before I knew it, it was sold out for six months. To avoid any unfortunate repetition of history, I got the M2 pro fully decked out,
annnnnd the cost came out rather too close to the Mac Studio Max with upgrades.

At the risk of sounding dumb and to ask it really simple, which of these 2 is the better buy?
1.

Mac mini​	Mac studio
With the following configuration Apple M2 Pro with 12‑core CPU, 19-core GPU, 16‑core Neural Engine 32GB unified memory 1TB SSD storage Gigabit Ethernet Four Thunderbolt 4 ports, HDMI port, two USB‑A ports, headphone jack Accessory Kit With 3year Apple care totaling at $2265 with student discount​	Hardware Apple M1 Max 10-core CPU, 32-core GPU, 16-core Neural Engine 32GB unified memory 1TB SSD storage Front: Two USB-C ports, one SDXC card slot Back: Four Thunderbolt 4 ports, two USB-A ports, one HDMI port, one 10Gb Ethernet port, one 3.5 mm headphone jack Accessory Kit 3year Apple care totaling at $2469 with student discount.

I look at the Mac Mini with the M2 Pro and the fact it maxes out at 32GB of unified memory is a bottleneck for me… and for others too I suspect… Even if you don’t feel you need more than the 32GB today… you may very well in the future, so between the RAM ceiling and the poorer GPU - I’d be looking at the Mac Studio… or if you can wait I’d be looking at the M2 Max and M2 Ultra Studios to be released… Yes you run the risk of there being a price increase and yes a 3nm M3 will replace them on a year and a half (but this is the nature of things)…

 

[tstafford]

I just bought a refurb base Studio with 1TB upgrade (~$1900) and got it yesterday. It was honestly overkill for my needs (heavy Lightroom use and some light 2D and 3D design), but I wanted the ports, SD slot, and performance overhead for long term use. I keep my computers for a long time generally.

Now seeing the M2 Pro Mini, I'm wondering whether I should return the Studio and get the Mini. I'm thinking of sticking with the Studio.

Studio pros (for me):
- More ports, including front-side ports and SD card slot
- Better thermal envelope
- More graphical capability, in case I ever want to get into something that would use that

Mini pros (for me):
- Smaller, easier to stick under monitor.
- Slightly cheaper for same specs (32GB ram, 1TB SSD, no processor or ethernet upgrade)
- Slightly (?) higher CPU performance
- Can save even more money if I go with 16GB of ram instead of 32GB.

Writing that out, I think the Studio is the right one for me, although it feels weird to be buying a device with a "last gen" processor! Any thoughts?

I understand the question for sure. I bought the Studio because the M1 Mini couldn't do what I wanted. But I don't need the power of the Studio at all. The M2 Pro Mini gets close but still falls short (I run 3 ASD). But I can see for sure how I might have been tempted to go with 2 ASD and a 4K had the M2 Pro Mini existed back then. Save some money, better speeds on web browsing, etc.

Since you asked for opinions, here's mine:

• RAM: I wouldn't want to drop down to 16 GB especially since you say you keep your machines for a long time. My MBP14 base regularly gets in to the swap and my Studio never does. I'm by no means a power user. I like RAM a lot and kind of wish I'd gotten a 64 GB Studio
• Front side ports are very nice. I use them the charge keyboard, mouse, etc. More I/O is better
• Display support on Studio is far better - you never know when that might come in handy
• Like the display support, while you don't need the 10 GB Ethernet now, you might later. I already utilize mine as I have 1.2 GB/sec internet and regularly get speeds closer to 1.4 GB/sec. Probably doesn't matter much but I like it and it's more "future proof"

The savings (w/ 32 GB RAM) and the better single core performance just don't seem enough to warrant the change.

I was kind of relieved to see the specs (and price) on the M2 Pro Mini because it doesn't make me regret my Studio purchase!

 

[antnythr]

Also worth keeping in mind that you'll have about 4 years left of support from Apple with the M1 vs 5 years with the new Mini.

 

[mox358]

Personally, I think anyone contemplating a Mac Studio right now should wait. It’s so clearly end of life. The M2 Max exists in the MacBook Pro. So it’s just a matter of time until it makes it’s way into the Studio.

So maybe just wait for that. Then you get the best of both.

Agree 100%... this is my situation. Wanting a new desktop Mac but I'm holding off to see what an upgraded Mac Studio looks like.

 

[Ethosik]

thank you all very much for your time and feedback.

So I have one last question in regards to the LAN, this is primarily through ethernet cables, correct?

And from my understanding, the receiver, sender , and the cable have to be on the 10 GB level, right?

Just trying to see if I should consider adding it, or if it’s dependent on society as a whole leveling up to a universal 10g standard type of thing, similar to what’s finally occurring with USB-C ports for chargers

Everything in a chain needs to support 10GbE. The Mac Studio does. Now you need at least Cat6 or Cat 6a (Cat5e can support it in some scenarios but it’s just better to have Cat6+ at this point) patch cables and riser cables along with a 10GbE switch (I am using the Ubiquiti Flex XG). Then you need to have a network card installed on the receiving/sending side which is most likely a Network Attached Storage device. I recently installed one NIC in my Synology to achieve 10Gb speeds.

Total upgrade cost for me to get my network at 10GbE was $1,000. Even when I had existing Cat6 cables in operation. Just the switches and NIC and I also needed to upgrade my Windows desktop with a NIC.

 

[Jumpthesnark]

I guess it's quite early days, but has anyone seen any comparisons between these two, or have thoughts?

Yes, the new Minis were just announced this morning, so it's very early days.

Unless there's a reason for you to rush out and buy, you may want to give it a week or so. Reviewers - hopefully people who run the same software and do the same tasks you do - should have actual benchmarks soon.

But like with all YT reviews when new Apple software is announced, there will be people who are just chasing likes/subscribes/etc., and they will have the most hysterical and overhyped approaches. OMG YOU WON'T BELIEVE HOW THE NEW MAC MINI MADE MY HAIR FALL OUT or whatever. Forget the noise, look for the signal. It may even take a little while for normal people to get a new Mini in their hands (released in a week) and do an actual review with real-world benchmarks that can help you make a decision. Again, unless you're in a hurry to buy, just wait and see which is the right machine for you.

 

[VivienM]

Just trying to see if I should consider adding it, or if it’s dependent on society as a whole leveling up to a universal 10g standard type of thing, similar to what’s finally occurring with USB-C ports for chargers

Keep in mind that Gigabit Ethernet is old. First Power Mac with gigabit Ethernet came out in 2000. Mainstream business Windows laptops had gigabit Ethernet in the mid-2000s. I think I bought my first residential-grade GbE switch (a 5 port, more ports was big money) in, oh, 2006 or so. And in 2000, a 'fast' Internet connection for home or small business might have been 1.5-3 megabit/sec download.

Computers have gotten a lot faster since 2000. Storage systems have gotten a lot faster since 2000s, especially solid state ones, but even arrays of hard drives can max out gigabit Ethernet. Internet access has gotten a lot faster - there are lots of gigabit fiber offerings in many countries. Etc.

Yet, at least in the home/small business sphere, we're still basically stuck at gigabit Ethernet (servers/workstations/data centers have had faster Ethernet speeds for a long time). There simply hasn't been much in the way of affordable copper-based 2.5/10 gigabit equipment for home.

What I would probably say is this:
1) If you don't know why you need 10 gigabit Ethernet, you probably don't.
2) Higher-than-gigabit Internet speeds are coming - here (Ontario, Canada), the telco now offers 1.5/3/8 gigabit residential Internet plans. (I think the highest tier is 8, maybe 7) Are those Internet plans going to make a major difference for a single person/family unless you are uploading 4K videos to YouTube? Probably not... but they are there now and going to get a lot more widespread.
3) The main benefit to 10 gigabit Ethernet is to access a NAS or other server in your home network that's got 10GbE connectivity. If you have no such things, well, your biggest use case for 10GbE is missing.
4) High-end Windowsland is STARTING to transition to 2.5 gigabit Ethernet instead of gigabit, at least on more enthusiasty motherboards, so there's at least an increasing possibility that 2.5 might get mainstreamed over the next couple of years.

I bought my refurb iMac with 10GbE, though I haven't been able to find an affordable switch that meets my needs.