M1 Max vs M2 Pro? (M2 mini vs M1 Studio)

[AF_APPLETALK]

Keep in mind that Gigabit Ethernet is old. First Power Mac with gigabit Ethernet came out in 2000. Mainstream business Windows laptops had gigabit Ethernet in the mid-2000s. I think I bought my first residential-grade GbE switch (a 5 port, more ports was big money) in, oh, 2006 or so. And in 2000, a 'fast' Internet connection for home or small business might have been 1.5-3 megabit/sec download.

Computers have gotten a lot faster since 2000. Storage systems have gotten a lot faster since 2000s, especially solid state ones, but even arrays of hard drives can max out gigabit Ethernet. Internet access has gotten a lot faster - there are lots of gigabit fiber offerings in many countries. Etc.

Yet, at least in the home/small business sphere, we're still basically stuck at gigabit Ethernet (servers/workstations/data centers have had faster Ethernet speeds for a long time). There simply hasn't been much in the way of affordable copper-based 2.5/10 gigabit equipment for home.

What I would probably say is this:
1) If you don't know why you need 10 gigabit Ethernet, you probably don't.
2) Higher-than-gigabit Internet speeds are coming - here (Ontario, Canada), the telco now offers 1.5/3/8 gigabit residential Internet plans. (I think the highest tier is 8, maybe 7) Are those Internet plans going to make a major difference for a single person/family unless you are uploading 4K videos to YouTube? Probably not... but they are there now and going to get a lot more widespread.
3) The main benefit to 10 gigabit Ethernet is to access a NAS or other server in your home network that's got 10GbE connectivity. If you have no such things, well, your biggest use case for 10GbE is missing.
4) High-end Windowsland is STARTING to transition to 2.5 gigabit Ethernet instead of gigabit, at least on more enthusiasty motherboards, so there's at least an increasing possibility that 2.5 might get mainstreamed over the next couple of years.

I bought my refurb iMac with 10GbE, though I haven't been able to find an affordable switch that meets my needs.

Yeah the switch/routing hardware costs are the killer for most consumers. Still.

1) If you don't know why you need 10 gigabit Ethernet, you probably don't.

My M1 MacBook Pro is plugged into my network using Apple's old USB (2.0) Ethernet adapter. I think I got it for use with my 2011 MBA IIRC. It maxes out at 100Mbps, I barely notice it, and I am too cheap to buy a USB-C GigE adapter because of all of that.

 

[VivienM]

Yeah the switch/routing hardware costs are the killer for most consumers. Still.


My M1 MacBook Pro is plugged into my network using Apple's old USB (2.0) Ethernet adapter. I think I got it for use with my 2011 MBA IIRC. It maxes out at 100Mbps, I barely notice it, and I am too cheap to buy a USB-C GigE adapter because of all of that.

Yup, and I don't think the switch costs are likely to go down. The overwhelming majority of home networking is wifi-centric, and almost all 10+ gigabit in business is SFP-based. There's simply not a huge market for 2.5/5/10 gigabit Ethernet over copper.

For better or worse, Apple doesn't have a first-party Ethernet adapter anymore. I forget what I bought for my M1 Max MBP... I think it's a USB-C 5 gigabit adapter that seemed like a good balance of price/performance? Or maybe a 2.5. But I almost never run my laptops wired...

 

[TheMadBrewer]

I just bought a refurb base Studio with 1TB upgrade (~$1900) and got it yesterday....

I know how you feel. I needed to replace my aging 2017 iMac and I finally realized there would be no M1 27" iMac, I thought "well, the rumors say the M2 Mini will be out in the fall, so I'll wait for that..."

Well, of course the rumors were wrong, so right before Xmas I ordered the base Studio with a memory and disk upgrade (64GB, 2TB), plus the Studio Monitor. Then the M2 Mini comes out

This is could be my last desktop -- I thought about going out with a splash and getting the Ultra, but in the end, the extra $2k+ was a bridge too far. I didn't upgrade the GPU -- I don't do much in the way of games (Civ V) or video editing, but I am likely to have Android Studio and Xcode both open and running phone emulators -- that was too much for the old iMac.

The limit or 32GB on Mini M2 would probably have been a deal breaker for me anyway. I realize Apple Silicon and Intel memory aren't directly comparable, but I had 64GB on my iMac and it wouldn't seem right to cut that in half

So I'll be happy with my Studio. And between the 4 Thunderbolt + 2 USB-C and the 3 USB-C on the monitor I finally have more ports than I need -- for now

 

[TechnoMonk]

Hey guys, long time reader first time writer. I was really hoping I can get more insight because I may have jumped the gun with this. So I’ve been stretching my 2016 MacBook Pro the best I could but over the last 3 years I’ve become a fullstack developer.
My MBP has done the best it’s could but after it’s first kernel panic .. I’m constantly having to reset pram and smc .

The reason I mention this is because I just want to elaborate how I’ve been waiting to buy the M2 Mac mini since the kernal panic that happens six months after the M1 Mac mini was released.

I tried to buy the Mac Studio when It came out, but I spent so much time trying to learn about it configurations, and before I knew it, it was sold out for six months. To avoid any unfortunate repetition of history, I got the M2 pro fully decked out,
annnnnd the cost came out rather too close to the Mac Studio Max with upgrades.

At the risk of sounding dumb and to ask it really simple, which of these 2 is the better buy?
1.

Mac mini​	Mac studio
With the following configuration Apple M2 Pro with 12‑core CPU, 19-core GPU, 16‑core Neural Engine 32GB unified memory 1TB SSD storage Gigabit Ethernet Four Thunderbolt 4 ports, HDMI port, two USB‑A ports, headphone jack Accessory Kit With 3year Apple care totaling at $2265 with student discount​	Hardware Apple M1 Max 10-core CPU, 32-core GPU, 16-core Neural Engine 32GB unified memory 1TB SSD storage Front: Two USB-C ports, one SDXC card slot Back: Four Thunderbolt 4 ports, two USB-A ports, one HDMI port, one 10Gb Ethernet port, one 3.5 mm headphone jack Accessory Kit 3year Apple care totaling at $2469 with student discount.

GPU May be more important in workflows with lot of products using AI features. I have been using more and more GPU in my M1 Max MacBook Pro 16 recently. If you can afford it, go for more GPU.

 

[VivienM]

I know how you feel. I needed to replace my aging 2017 iMac and I finally realized there would be no M1 27" iMac, I thought "well, the rumors say the M2 Mini will be out in the fall, so I'll wait for that..."

Well, of course the rumors were wrong, so right before Xmas I ordered the base Studio with a memory and disk upgrade (64GB, 2TB), plus the Studio Monitor. Then the M2 Mini comes out

This is could be my last desktop -- I thought about going out with a splash and getting the Ultra, but in the end, the extra $2k+ was a bridge too far. I didn't upgrade the GPU -- I don't do much in the way of games (Civ V) or video editing, but I am likely to have Android Studio and Xcode both open and running phone emulators -- that was too much for the old iMac.

The limit or 32GB on Mini M2 would probably have been a deal breaker for me anyway. I realize Apple Silicon and Intel memory aren't directly comparable, but I had 64GB on my iMac and it wouldn't seem right to cut that in half

So I'll be happy with my Studio. And between the 4 Thunderbolt + 2 USB-C and the 3 USB-C on the monitor I finally have more ports than I need -- for now

I priced an M2 Pro Mac mini earlier and it seemed to me like with 32GB RAM and 10GbE, you were basically at Mac studio money...

(... sure, Mac studio is M1 for now, and will probably stay M1 until they have an M2 Ultra ready, but...)

That being said, now that I think about it, there isn't much of a difference between a 32GB M2 Pro Mac mini and a base Mac studio, is there?

 

[Jimmdean]

The value in the m2 pro mini is it’s the cheapest way to get a 12-core m2. but if you need 32gb of ram you’re better off waiting for the eventual studio upgrade before making a decision.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Hey guys, long time reader first time writer. I was really hoping I can get more insight because I may have jumped the gun with this. So I’ve been stretching my 2016 MacBook Pro the best I could but over the last 3 years I’ve become a fullstack developer.
My MBP has done the best it’s could but after it’s first kernel panic .. I’m constantly having to reset pram and smc .

The reason I mention this is because I just want to elaborate how I’ve been waiting to buy the M2 Mac mini since the kernal panic that happens six months after the M1 Mac mini was released.

I tried to buy the Mac Studio when It came out, but I spent so much time trying to learn about it configurations, and before I knew it, it was sold out for six months. To avoid any unfortunate repetition of history, I got the M2 pro fully decked out,
annnnnd the cost came out rather too close to the Mac Studio Max with upgrades.

At the risk of sounding dumb and to ask it really simple, which of these 2 is the better buy?
1.

Mac mini​	Mac studio
With the following configuration Apple M2 Pro with 12‑core CPU, 19-core GPU, 16‑core Neural Engine 32GB unified memory 1TB SSD storage Gigabit Ethernet Four Thunderbolt 4 ports, HDMI port, two USB‑A ports, headphone jack Accessory Kit With 3year Apple care totaling at $2265 with student discount​	Hardware Apple M1 Max 10-core CPU, 32-core GPU, 16-core Neural Engine 32GB unified memory 1TB SSD storage Front: Two USB-C ports, one SDXC card slot Back: Four Thunderbolt 4 ports, two USB-A ports, one HDMI port, one 10Gb Ethernet port, one 3.5 mm headphone jack Accessory Kit 3year Apple care totaling at $2469 with student discount.

M2 is a much newer box with tens of thousands of engineering hours spent improving on M1. Personally I would buy the M2 unless 10GB Ethernet is really important to you for some reason, but both are excellent choices.

 

[tstafford]

That being said, now that I think about it, there isn't much of a difference between a 32GB M2 Pro Mac mini and a base Mac studio, is there?

Some nuanced differences. And depending on use case one or the other might be "better".

For me the base Studio wins out over a specced up Mini M2 Pro because of additional I/O and far superior display support (my display set up wouldn't work on Mini). But if it wasn't for the displays, the Mini would win because I would benefit from the superior single core performance. Use case drives which one to buy as always. Give me the base Studio (terrific machine and will be with me for years and years).

 

[VivienM]

M2 is a much newer box with tens of thousands of engineering hours spent improving on M1. Personally I would buy the M2 unless 10GB Ethernet is really important to you for some reason, but both are excellent choices.

You can get 10GB Ethernet on the M2 Mac mini...

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Oh, and don't worry folks. The M2 Max Mac Studio is Almost Certainly Coming.
...and so the wheel turns.

Exactly. My guess is that the only reason M2 Studios are not out yet is because the first M2 SoC supply goes to the new MBPs and Minis.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

You can get 10GB Ethernet on the M2 Mac mini...

Cool. Thanks for that.

 

[VivienM]

Exactly. My guess is that the only reason M2 Studios are not out yet is because the first M2 SoC supply goes to the new MBPs and Minis.

And perhaps the engineering team and TSMC is still working on M2 Ultra... would make sense for lots of reasons that it would be worked on later (bigger, more challenging, lower volume, etc). But I think the M2 Studio needs to launch with both M2 Max and M2 Ultra.

One thing to note, too, about M2 Ultra - I expect they'll be able to up RAM to 192GB. (M2 is up to 24GB, M2 Pro... probably can address 48GB but they're not selling more than 32GB M2 Pro systems, M2 Max can go up to 96GB, so M2 Ultra should reach 192GB)

Which means that if they were to double M2 Ultra for a Mac Pro-class system, you'd be at 384GB max RAM. That's probably enough to satisfy 90%+ of Mac Pro buyers. Worth noting that the trash can Mac Pro only went to 128GB, so while the 2019 Mac Pro has insane memory capacity... a max of 384GB would not be out of line.

 

[PsykX]

I'm asking myself the same question and I'm torn between the two options.
Basically Mac Mini has better CPU and Mac Studio better GPU.

I'll give another twist to the discussion :
1. Which one will lose more value over time?
"Old base model Mac Studio" or "New Mac Mini w/ M2 Pro - 32 GB - 1TB SSD".

2. Few additional differences :
- Mac Studio has Wi-Fi 6 / Mac Mini has Wi-Fi 6E
- Mac Studio has Bluetooth 5 / Mac Mini has 5.3
- Mac Studio has 10 Gbps Ethernet / Mac Mini has 1Gbps (10Gbps costs extra $)
- Mac Mini is much smaller (but does it have a good cooling system to keep prolonged tasks running?)
- Mac Studio has 400Gbps memory bandwidth / Mac Mini has 200Gbps (how does it translate to a real world experience?)
- Video/Media encoders : is the M2 Pro better than M1 Max!?

I agree!

I think this is a good topic for an upcoming video, isn't it? 😅

 

[MistD]

Basically Mac Mini has better CPU and Mac Studio better GPU

Also, Mac Studio has double the memory capacity (64 Gb) if you need it.

Depends on the work you do, 64GB is a must have.

Take the amount of RAM into consideration as well not only the CPU.

You can have a slightly faster CPU but hit the ceiling really fast because of lower RAM capacity.

I’m really curios how M2 Pro compares to M1 Max.

I have a feeling that it’s just marginally faster (under 10%) BUT with lower GPU performance and half memory capacity.

 

[i486dx2-66]

I'll give another twist to the discussion :
1. Which one will lose more value over time?
"Old base model Mac Studio" or "New Mac Mini w/ M2 Pro - 32 GB - 1TB SSD".

Easy, the Studio will suffer the most.

A few years from now, when your two otherwise comparable machines go up on eBay, people won't pay as much for the Studio because the larger and much heavier Studio is going to cost more to ship. 😁 The "price-including-shipping to performance ratio" will heavily favor the M2 Pro Mini over the M1 Studio.

 

[Confused-User]

Exactly. My guess is that the only reason M2 Studios are not out yet is because the first M2 SoC supply goes to the new MBPs and Minis.

More likely because it's taking longer to get InFO-LI working and tested with the N4 ("4nm", but not really) process. Apple says that the M2Pro/Max are on "enhanced 5nm". If accurate, that's most likely the N4 process, a die shrink of N5, and not a big challenge, but still it's different enough that this would plausibly take a little more time. That means the M2 Ultras won't be available for another 1-3 months, and they wouldn't want to announce the Studios without being able to ship the Ultra configuration quickly.

Separate topic- about the 10Gbps ethernet: You don't always need to buy a switch for it. Most smallish home setups with a NAS only have one or two clients that really can take advantage of the 10gbps speed. So you plug them directly into the NAS - you don't even need to worry about crossover cables any more. Then you plug a 1gbps switch into the 1gbps port on the NAS. This of course assumes you have enough ports on the NAS, which would depend on the specific model.

You can also buy used 10gbps switches on ebay for peanuts. It's crazy how cheap they are. Be warned, though, most of the 1U rackmount switches have fans that can get loud. (Copper 10g runs hot!) You can also look for 1gbps switches with 2 or 4 10g ports, which again may be all you need.

 

[JoeDezibel]

It is not important to buy the fastest or best one. Smart people allways buy what they NEED.

 

[Fomalhaut]

Hey guys, long time reader first time writer. I was really hoping I can get more insight because I may have jumped the gun with this. So I’ve been stretching my 2016 MacBook Pro the best I could but over the last 3 years I’ve become a fullstack developer.
My MBP has done the best it’s could but after it’s first kernel panic .. I’m constantly having to reset pram and smc .

The reason I mention this is because I just want to elaborate how I’ve been waiting to buy the M2 Mac mini since the kernal panic that happens six months after the M1 Mac mini was released.

I tried to buy the Mac Studio when It came out, but I spent so much time trying to learn about it configurations, and before I knew it, it was sold out for six months. To avoid any unfortunate repetition of history, I got the M2 pro fully decked out,
annnnnd the cost came out rather too close to the Mac Studio Max with upgrades.

At the risk of sounding dumb and to ask it really simple, which of these 2 is the better buy?
1.

Mac mini​	Mac studio
With the following configuration Apple M2 Pro with 12‑core CPU, 19-core GPU, 16‑core Neural Engine 32GB unified memory 1TB SSD storage Gigabit Ethernet Four Thunderbolt 4 ports, HDMI port, two USB‑A ports, headphone jack Accessory Kit With 3year Apple care totaling at $2265 with student discount​	Hardware Apple M1 Max 10-core CPU, 32-core GPU, 16-core Neural Engine 32GB unified memory 1TB SSD storage Front: Two USB-C ports, one SDXC card slot Back: Four Thunderbolt 4 ports, two USB-A ports, one HDMI port, one 10Gb Ethernet port, one 3.5 mm headphone jack Accessory Kit 3year Apple care totaling at $2469 with student discount.

Not a usage or performance consideration, but if you think you might resell the computer later, you will probably take less of a loss by getting the near-base config Mac Studio than a maxed-out M2 Pro Mini.

If there is going to be at least a 3 week wait before shipping, why not order both now, and wait for the early reviews and comparisons. You can then cancel the order for the one that fares less well. You aren't charged until shipping in most countries. If you wait for lots of reviews before ordering, then you may find that wait times are much longer.

 

[Fomalhaut]

Yeah… that’s not really the question..

In the USA att fiber for $400 a month gets you 5gs I’m very very few select areas.

I’m aware Ethernet is the use.. but how with more than 1g get used..

What’s NAS?

Did you say you're a software developer? Sounds like you should spend a bit more time reading about hardware!

NAS = network attached storage. Like these: https://www.synology.com/en-global/products?product_line=ds_plus,ds_xs

Your local network speed is unrelated to your internet connection speed.

The standard for Ethernet LANs and computer network interfaces (NICs) has been 1 Gbps for about 15 years, but 10Gbps networks and NICs are now becoming quite common at reasonable price points.

If you have another computer or a NAS on your local network (with a 10 GbE NIC) then you will be able to transfer data at maybe 1000-1223 MB/s depending on the processing ability of the end point, cable type and length, number of other devices etc.

A 1 Gbps network will be about one-tenth of that.

You may also in the future have an internet connection that supports > 1 Gbps, and if your computer only has a 1 GbE NIC, then that will be the limiting factor.

 

[Yebubbleman]

Haven't seen any benchmarks comparing these yet, but when pricing out a mid/high spec M2 mini, (M2 pro, 32gb, 512gb) it's pretty much the same price as a mid spec M1 Studio (M1 max, 32gb, 512gb) and I'm wondering what the performance difference would be.

I guess the M2 is "next gen", but the "Max" is likely faster than the "Pro" (these names...), not to mention probably better thermals and other stuff from the larger form factor.

As a point of reference I'm working audio, so the extra GPU power isn't massively important to me (though I do do a bit of video editing as well, it's not the core thing I'd be using the machine for).

I guess it's quite early days, but has anyone seen any comparisons between these two, or have thoughts?

Assume faster CPU (since, for both the M1 and M2 families, Pro and Max have the same CPU) on M2 Pro, but beefier graphics on M1 Max. It's possible that M1 Max will lose support for future macOS releases sooner than M2 Pro, but (a) it's way too early to tell and (b) the difference in longevity, while as-of-yet unmeasured, is most likely to be minor.

 

[Fruit Stand]

Can anyone explain what’s the deal with 10 GB bandwidth? I mean I get a 1gig Internet service but I am extremely sure that comcast is not gonna be giving me anything more at a better value

So how does that get use?

I am on 3 Gigabit Fibre here in Canada and we recently got 8 Gigabit service as an option too, so for some of us its useful for LAN and WAN purposes if our networks and connections support it.

 

[Timbukstu]

Hey guys, long time reader first time writer. I was really hoping I can get more insight because I may have jumped the gun with this. So I’ve been stretching my 2016 MacBook Pro the best I could but over the last 3 years I’ve become a fullstack developer.
My MBP has done the best it’s could but after it’s first kernel panic .. I’m constantly having to reset pram and smc .

The reason I mention this is because I just want to elaborate how I’ve been waiting to buy the M2 Mac mini since the kernal panic that happens six months after the M1 Mac mini was released.

I tried to buy the Mac Studio when It came out, but I spent so much time trying to learn about it configurations, and before I knew it, it was sold out for six months. To avoid any unfortunate repetition of history, I got the M2 pro fully decked out,
annnnnd the cost came out rather too close to the Mac Studio Max with upgrades.

At the risk of sounding dumb and to ask it really simple, which of these 2 is the better buy?
1.

Mac mini​	Mac studio
With the following configuration Apple M2 Pro with 12‑core CPU, 19-core GPU, 16‑core Neural Engine 32GB unified memory 1TB SSD storage Gigabit Ethernet Four Thunderbolt 4 ports, HDMI port, two USB‑A ports, headphone jack Accessory Kit With 3year Apple care totaling at $2265 with student discount​	Hardware Apple M1 Max 10-core CPU, 32-core GPU, 16-core Neural Engine 32GB unified memory 1TB SSD storage Front: Two USB-C ports, one SDXC card slot Back: Four Thunderbolt 4 ports, two USB-A ports, one HDMI port, one 10Gb Ethernet port, one 3.5 mm headphone jack Accessory Kit 3year Apple care totaling at $2469 with student discount.

You are running a 2016, the best option is probably refurb mac mini 1tb 32gb which was in stock early today.
Second best is the m2 Mac mini.
Third best is the Mac Studio.

You probably could have gotten by on an mba m2 16gb. M2 has better memory bandwidth. GPU shouldn’t matter to you unless you change from full stack and it’s not worth it now.

Pick one because I doubt you will max out the config you listed here and can bet you may upgrade to the m6 chip in 4 years before you over stress this setup.

 

[dirkske]

Video/Media encoders : is the M2 Pro better than M1 Max!?

M1 Max has 2 encoding engines, M2 Pro has 1. So video encoding on M1 Max is twice as fast.

 

[Alex W.]

Guys, Remember when you had an intel mac, the fans blasting?

M1 was worth getting HUGE upgrade in battery and no fans.
The issue now is getting obsessed with preformance.

Like it isnt a huge difference to upgrade from m1 pro to m1 pro guys, its like 50 FPS vs 65; 30 vs 39 fps.
20% on a CPU isnt anything to worry about either, thats nothing.

Keep your macs, dont sell them are huge losses -- for example my m1 pro has a trade in value of 650, lmao!

Why do i need 20% more cpu when the m1 pro was already smoking everything intel had before it?
Why do i need 30% more gpu preformance when macs barely have any decent games -- i can just grab gamepass and stream everything from xbox -- or the few times i need to game it does a good job but heres the main thing if a game already ran like crap on a rosetta emulation layer (some games do) the tiny bump in perf wont make much of a difference here.

Keep what you have and wait for larger generational leaps. Sidenote, M1 air is an amazing laptop still, best battery and perf ive seen and i still recommend them to people - thats why apple still sells them too.

 

[tstafford]

I'm asking myself the same question and I'm torn between the two options.
Basically Mac Mini has better CPU and Mac Studio better GPU.

I'll give another twist to the discussion :
1. Which one will lose more value over time?
"Old base model Mac Studio" or "New Mac Mini w/ M2 Pro - 32 GB - 1TB SSD".

2. Few additional differences :
- Mac Studio has Wi-Fi 6 / Mac Mini has Wi-Fi 6E
- Mac Studio has Bluetooth 5 / Mac Mini has 5.3
- Mac Studio has 10 Gbps Ethernet / Mac Mini has 1Gbps (10Gbps costs extra $)
- Mac Mini is much smaller (but does it have a good cooling system to keep prolonged tasks running?)
- Mac Studio has 400Gbps memory bandwidth / Mac Mini has 200Gbps (how does it translate to a real world experience?)
- Video/Media encoders : is the M2 Pro better than M1 Max!?


I think this is a good topic for an upcoming video, isn't it? 😅

Studio has better display support.