iPad Pro M1 on 2021 iPad Pros?

[Abazigal]

I don't think it's an impossibility.

The iPads had:

1GB 2012-2013

2GB 2014

4GB 2015-2018

There's 50/50 chance we get 8GB on the new Pros. If the A14X/Z are close enough to M1 (or perhaps are M1s that didn't pass binning for Mac-level), it may be more expedient or cheaper for Apple to just go 8GB on all of them.

It feels to me that ram increases in iPads are pegged more to the features Apple wants to enable, than any specific timeline.

For example, the iPad Air 2 got 2gb of ram, which I assume is the minimum necessary to support split-screen multitasking (which was probably delayed to 2015 because the software just wasn't ready).

The iPad Pros got 4gb of ram because that's what Apple feels is necessary to support meatier workflows like video editing, more aggressive multitasking needs and the higher resolution of the 12.9" iPad Pro.

The 2020 iPad Pro got 6gb ram presumably to support the lidar camera and possibly some future AR feature, same with the iPhone 12 Pro and pro max later this year.

Which raises the question - what could the next iPad Pro refresh get that might justify or require 8 gb of ram?

 

[kristalsoldier]

It feels to me that ram increases in iPads are pegged more to the features Apple wants to enable, than any specific timeline.

For example, the iPad Air 2 got 2gb of ram, which I assume is the minimum necessary to support split-screen multitasking (which was probably delayed to 2015 because the software just wasn't ready).

The iPad Pros got 4gb of ram because that's what Apple feels is necessary to support meatier workflows like video editing, more aggressive multitasking needs and the higher resolution of the 12.9" iPad Pro.

The 2020 iPad Pro got 6gb ram presumably to support the lidar camera and possibly some future AR feature, same with the iPhone 12 Pro and pro max later this year.

Which raises the question - what could the next iPad Pro refresh get that might justify or require 8 gb of ram?

At the very least a higher price point? After all, this is Apple we are talking about!

 

[ericwn]

At the very least a higher price point? After all, this is Apple we are talking about!

And of course MagSafe and the wallet, aka the true innovations of 2021.

 

[rui no onna]

It feels to me that ram increases in iPads are pegged more to the features Apple wants to enable, than any specific timeline.

For example, the iPad Air 2 got 2gb of ram, which I assume is the minimum necessary to support split-screen multitasking (which was probably delayed to 2015 because the software just wasn't ready).

The iPad Pros got 4gb of ram because that's what Apple feels is necessary to support meatier workflows like video editing, more aggressive multitasking needs and the higher resolution of the 12.9" iPad Pro.

The 2020 iPad Pro got 6gb ram presumably to support the lidar camera and possibly some future AR feature, same with the iPhone 12 Pro and pro max later this year.

Which raises the question - what could the next iPad Pro refresh get that might justify or require 8 gb of ram?

The Air 2 got 2GB RAM because 1GB really was just too little. I still maintain that the OG Air (switch to 64-bit) should have gotten 2GB/32GB base already.

They skimp on RAM because it's cheaper but it's possible in this case with A14 already on 4GB and M1 on 8GB (2x4GB), 8GB (2x4GB) across the board is the more cost-effective approach. The Air 4 didn't really need 4GB, either.

 

[Digitalguy]

Yes, you're right. A9X is more powerful than Core 2. It's A9 that's Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 level. That's my baseline for minimum performance on desktop. Paired with a discrete GPU to handle AVC/HEVC hardware acceleration, 8GB RAM and SSD, it's actually not awful on Windows 7/10. For years, Intel's Atom and ultra low voltage CPUs couldn't even match that level.

The comparisons made were to 65W desktop chips.

Ok now I understand better your point. You were comparing desktop top end core 2 duo (which is still lower than A9, but that's not the point, I see the kind of threashold you intended) and using mobile processors, A9 is at the level of 5th gen core I3 (I have a laptop with that chip which is very close to my iphone SE scores). Yes, I agree, it's the minimum below which I would not go. Current Celerons are more or less there. It's not snappy but it's ok. Personally I start enjoying using a laptop from A9X single core performance (assuming the laptop is at least dual core hyperthreaded) or even a bit more. Aton (and emmc) are below usable and are a disappearing breed...

 

[hovscorpion12]

At the very least a higher price point? After all, this is Apple we are talking about!

Despite the improvements the price of the iPad Pro lineup has not really increased.

 

[Digitalguy]

The Air 2 got 2GB RAM because 1GB really was just too little. I still maintain that the OG Air (switch to 64-bit) should have gotten 2GB/32GB base already.

They skimp on RAM because it's cheaper but it's possible in this case with A14 already on 4GB and M1 on 8GB (2x4GB), 8GB (2x4GB) across the board is the more cost-effective approach. The Air 4 didn't really need 4GB, either.

I think the low RAM on iPads come from the fact the Steeve Jobs wanted to hit the $500 mark (while people expected $1000 or more) and they reduced specs (starting with 256MB RAM) a lot but optimized IOS so that it could still be fast... Yes 1GB was too little in A7 and the air 1 would still be relevant with 2GB as it's not much slower than A8 (while being much faster than the A6X in the iPad 4). IOS 9, even without split screen, killed anything with less than 2GB RAM.
In the first pro they went all in since the increased the price a lot (from $499 to $799), but then went back to 2GB with the $599 9.7 pro to maintain their margins... And 4GB has been the celing till 2020, with the exception of the 1TB 2018 model.
So they have never been generous with RAM on iPad... If the leave the 2021 pro with 6GB it will be very disappointing (and personally I will not even consider it...). Hopefully as you say 8GB will be more efficient anyway...

 

[kristalsoldier]

Despite the improvements the price of the iPad Pro lineup has not really increased.

Not really increased means what?

 

[Traverse]

Given the leaks that the new iPad Pro will only be 12.9 inches

I keep seeing these rumors and they make me anxious even if I don’t think they’re true.

The 11” size-class is what interests me. Given that the iPad Air is only 10.9” and not 11” leads me to believe that Apple was leaving room for marketing differentiation for the future Pros. I still believe there are enough factors such as the better display, increase performance, better speakers, etc. to justify having a smaller pro.

However, the rumors that the good display technology will only be coming to the larger iPad make me extremely unhappy. I haven’t purchased a new iPad in over three years and I really want the best I can get, but I don’t want one as big as 13 inches. That makes it a poor tablet in my opinion.

 

[SesameWasher]

We haven't seen A14X/Z yet. It would be interesting to see if it's actually a different chip or just a re-bin of M1 with certain parts disabled. Die size of the M1 is certainly within the ballpark for AX chipsets.

Comparing Geekbench 5 scores, the difference between A14 and M1 could be easily attributed to the slightly higher clock and extra big cores. If the next iPad Pros get A14X, I do expect them to be within a couple hundred points of the M1 scores.

GB5
M1 MBA 1700/7300
A14 iPad Air 4 1600/4200
A14 iPhone 12 650/3000 (low power mode)
A12Z iPad Pro 1100/4700
A12 iPhone Xr 1100/2400


A14 3.0 GHz
process 5nm
die size 88mm2
cpu cores 2 big/4 small
gpu cores 4

M1 3.2 GHz
process 5nm
die size 119mm2
cpu cores 4 big/4 small
gpu cores 7/8

A12X/A12Z
process 7nm
die size 122mm2
cpu cores 4 big/4 small
gpu cores 7/8

A10X
process 10nm
die size 96.4mm2
cpu cores 3 big/3 small
gpu cores 12

A9X
process 16nm
die size 147mm2
cpu cores 2
gpu cores 12

Also take cooling into consideration. M1 has a 20~24 watt CPU according to anandtech & requires active cooling for sustained performance. AFAIK A12X/Z runs at ~15 watt, forgot whether it's CPU alone or the entire chip.

 

[SesameWasher]

The biggest difference between AX/M, I suppose:
1). PCIe lanes will likely shrink. M1 should be 12 lanes external (2 independent Thunderbolt with SSD). Maybe we'll see 2~4 lanes maximum.
2). Down clock by a bit to keep thermal & consumption in check. Speaking of that, I wonder if the MacBook Air truly have more thermal capacity than the 12.9" iPad Pro.
3). RAM capacity but that's mostly how big Apple wants rather than the SoC itself.

 

[SesameWasher]

Only asking because even though the M1 may be specified for Macs, it feels redundant to give the same chip two different names.

Wouldn’t be too surprised if they go with the M1’s in the next Pros. Especially since iPadOS applications will be cross compatible... and it’ll say a lot about the direction they’re heading with the iPads.

Maybe we’ll see a different chip though, who knows.

IMO:
A = Apple, Application, Alpha (if you read history)
M = Mac, Mainstream, Minimal (used to be "microcontroller" or "motion" but now it's inside of A)

And If I had to guess:
P = Pro, Power, Performance
X = EXtraordinary, EXtreme

Some others if interested:
H = Headsets (W = Wireless). T = Token, Touch. S = System, Small? Silicon?

 

[rui no onna]

Also take cooling into consideration. M1 has a 20~24 watt CPU according to anandtech & requires active cooling for sustained performance. AFAIK A12X/Z runs at ~15 watt, forgot whether it's CPU alone or the entire chip.

Sure but that affects peak. Going by A14 and A12Z, I expect around 1600/6000 GB5 scores on the upcoming iPad Pro SoC.

TDP is typically for entire chip.

 

[SesameWasher]

Sure but that affects peak. Going by A14 and A12Z, I expect around 1600/6000 GB5 scores on the upcoming iPad Pro SoC.

TDP is typically for entire chip.

I couldn't remember whether the 15 watt for A12Z means the entire chip or CPU alone, though I remember people did mentioned it did not throttle.

The M1 Air throttles lower than 15W unless you do that thermal pad mod, or maybe there are still some optimization needs to be done. Quite skeptical right now.

 

[rui no onna]

I couldn't remember whether the 15 watt for A12Z means the entire chip or CPU alone, though I remember people did mentioned it did not throttle.

The M1 Air throttles lower than 15W unless you do that thermal pad mod, or maybe there are still some optimization needs to be done. Quite skeptical right now.

Iirc, Apple mentioned during the keynote that the 2020 iPad Pro has improved thermals so less throttling.

 

[SesameWasher]

Iirc, Apple mentioned during the keynote that the 2020 iPad Pro has improved thermals so less throttling.

The 11-inch AFAIK does throttle, not the case for 12.9, least the CPU alone. There's LINPACK in the app store and that's how they tested.

Nevermind it does. I've asked again...though it took a long time till it does.

 

[hovscorpion12]

Not really increased means what?

Meaning that iPad Pro prices have not really seen a dramatic price increase since it was introduced in 2015. We've seen base storage increase as well as additional storage, however the base price has remained constant.

 

[TheRealAlex]

Do you think we will see an A14X or will Apple jump straight to the M1 chips?

iPad Pro doesn’t have enough cooling surface area for an M1 chip. And besides Rule #1 is never buy a First Gen Apple Product the M1 is a first Gen Apple offering. And if there is an iPad Pro in 2021 it will be late 2021 and use a A15X CPU.

 

[SesameWasher]

iPad Pro doesn’t have enough cooling surface area for an M1 chip. And besides Rule #1 is never buy a First Gen Apple Product the M1 is a first Gen Apple offering. And if there is an iPad Pro in 2021 it will be late 2021 and use a A15X CPU.

Judging by some early review it seems Apple tuned the Air way too aggressive, the sustained power for the CPU is 12W. iPad Pros have no problem holding 15W for a rather long time.

It's strange, though given the fact that previous Air nerfed their heat sink, it may be no surprise.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Judging by some early review it seems Apple tuned the Air way too aggressive, the sustained power for the CPU is 12W. iPad Pros have no problem holding 15W for a rather long time.

It's strange, though given the fact that previous Air nerfed their heat sink, it may be no surprise.

Doesn’t the iPad Pro have to power the screen as well, though? Or do they factor that out of the equation?

 

[SesameWasher]

Doesn’t the iPad Pro have to power the screen as well, though? Or do they factor that out of the equation?

That’s total consumption, the 15W here is about the CPU itself.