M1 Pro 8/14 core vs M2?

[theorist9]

Cry more man. I really don't care if you don't believe it. And you don't decide who belongs here. Who the hell do you think you are?

There are some good deals here on the 14" M1 Pro MacBook Pro. Live with it that such deals exist.

Btw, welcome to my ignore list.

Oh, please, you're just going for the put-down (that I'm "crying") because I called you on your unsupported claims and you can't handle it.

Besides, if it's only available discounted to that extent from retailers in your specific town/city (such that specifying it would reveal your location), then your statement "you can find such prices from retailers currently" is at best misleading, because apparently these are only available to you and others in your town/city, not to anyone else. Otherwise you could simply supply a link to a retailer in another location.

 

[jav6454]

Then please provide a link. E.g., it's possible you didn't realize the low price you saw was for a refurb. Or maybe it wasn't from an authorized retailer. There's no way to know without a link.

Actually it's the truth. When you spec up an M2 MBA, you run into the 13" M2 MBP territory and further upping specs makes the MBA price equal to a 14" MBP M1 Pro.

Just go to Apple and build one. You'll see anything but the standard configuration of the MBA shifts you immediately into MBP territory. In other words, the M2 on the MBA is an expensive CPU.

 

[theorist9]

Actually it's the truth. When you spec up an M2 MBA, you run into the 13" M2 MBP territory and further upping specs makes the MBA price equal to a 14" MBP M1 Pro.

Just go to Apple and build one. You'll see anything but the standard configuration of the MBA shifts you immediately into MBP territory. In other words, the M2 on the MBA is an expensive CPU.

Nope, we were talking about the 14" M1 Pro MBP, and what you are saying about Apple's prices is not true when comparing that model to the M2 Air. Not only that, but I gave detailed cost breakdowns in Post #20 showing that. So here you are telling me to go to Apple and build one, when I already clearly did that. Seriously dude—how about actually taking the time to understand what I post before replying??:

A min-spec binned 14" MBP has 16 GB RAM and a 512 GB SSD, and is $2000 at full price and $1800 with an educational discount plus the current $50 off promo.

A 16 GB/512 GB Air is $1700 at full price, and $1580 with an educational discount (the $50 off is unavailable because this would be BTO).

 

[jav6454]

Nope, we were talking about the 14" M1 MBP, and what you are saying about Apple's prices is not true when comparing that model to the M2 Air. Not only that, but I gave detailed cost breakdowns in Post #20 showing that. Seriously dude—how about actually taking the time to understand what I post before replying??

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/m1-pro-8-14-core-vs-m2.2347302/?post=31175228#post-31175228

$300 difference and you get better CPU? Like I said, you are already entering MBP territory. Also, Spec a 13" MBP and a MBA and you'll see they are exactly the same in specs and the MBP comes on top in terms of sustain performance due to the fan preventing any throttling. Again, entering MBP territory.

 

[theorist9]

$300 difference and you get better CPU? Like I said, you are already entering MBP territory. Also, Spec a 13" MBP and a MBA and you'll see they are exactly the same in specs and the MBP comes on top in terms of sustain performance due to the fan preventing any throttling. Again, entering MBP territory.

I already addressed those points in my Post #20 (see below).

But let's get back to your assertion ("Actually it's the truth" [based on Apple's pricing]). The fact is your statement in response to my post was wrong, I showed it was wrong, and you're not willing to just be straightforward and acknowledge it.

When I get stuff wrong on this site and others, I quickly acknowledge it, and thank the poster for setting me straight. I've done this several times. It's very frustrating trying to deal with someone who won't do that.

I do agree that, for the ~$200 difference, the 14" M1 Pro is a better value. It has better cooling, slightly higher MT performance, significantly higher GPU performance, more ports, and a larger and better-quality display. Plus it can drive 3 external monitors compared with only one for the Air. All the M2 Air offers is slightly higher SC performance plus reduced size and weight.

 

[playtech1]

In the UK John Lewis - a major department store - sells the 14 inch base model online and in-store for £1,735 whereas the M2 Air configured with 16GB RAM is £1,749. John Lewis also offer an extra year of warranty for free too. Currently out of stock online, but it comes back in regularly.

 

[theorist9]

In the UK John Lewis - a major department store - sells the 14 inch base model online and in-store for £1,735 whereas the M2 Air configured with 16GB RAM is £1,749. John Lewis also offer an extra year of warranty for free too. Currently out of stock online, but it comes back in regularly.

I saw the base 14" M1 Pro MBP with 16 GB RAM/512 GB SSD at John Lewis for £1,735, like you said. I couldn't get the Lewis site to configure a base M2 Air with those specs, so I went to Apple's UK site, and built a base M2 Air with 16 GB RAM/512 GB SSD for £1,649.

So the M2 Air remains less expensive. Having said that, with only an ~ £100 difference, it seems the 14" M1 Pro MBP becomes even more appealing relative to the M2 Air in the UK (at least if you're comparing the base M1 Pro MBP to a BTO Air, as we're doing here, because of the discounts available specifically on base models). Of course, there will also be non-BTO versions of the M2 Air once it becomes available, and those will likewise have discounts, which should restore the difference to closer to ~ £250, which is their current difference in retail pricing at Apple UK (for equally-spec'd models in their respective base CPU/GPU variants).

 

[hans1972]

Cry more man. I really don't care if you don't believe it. And you don't decide who belongs here. Who the hell do you think you are?

There are some good deals here on the 14" M1 Pro MacBook Pro. Live with it that such deals exist.

I don't believe you.

What I do believe, it's you're a liar.

 

[UBS28]

I don't believe you.

What I do believe, it's you're a liar.

And we got an other person to join the ignore list.

Btw, if you look the post above, you see someone from the UK also seeing the exact same thing.

Funny, Apple is pushing for privacy and then you got people like you demanding that I basically show where I live, because you think I am liar.

If you guys are already making the assumption I have no integrity and lie, we have nothing to discuss and you join my ignore list.

 

[IJBrekke]

I have no stake in this silly little fight going on, just sharing my data from shopping around for a binned 14” MBP since the M2 announcement.

Swappa has been hovering mostly around $1700-1750 for lightly used, new closer to $1800. My wife encouraged me to check Mercari (she uses regularly) and lo and behold, I was able to find a new one for $1600. Another new one had recently sold for $1550.

I have seen zero evidence of a brand new 14” MBP available for the education discounted price of the M2 MBA with the same specs.

The overall point is that, on sale, the 14” MBP gets to within less than $200 and can be easily cross-shopped. If you spec 1TB on the MBA they are basically identical in cost.

 

[Pugly]

I did some calculations when the M1 Pro came out, curious how the performance and efficiency cores matched up. I just used the geekbench scores with 6P+2E=9500 and 4P+4E=7400. This worked out to a Performance core contributing 1350 and an Efficiency core 400. So a P core is about 3-4 more powerful.

I think Apple said the efficiency cores improved more than the performance ones... but the performance should still be considerably faster. The M2 splits the difference here, but it's pretty marginal if you are considering it as a $800 upgrade.

I don't think the performance differences is a big enough differentiator, unless you can make use of the fan. The 14" just gives you such a better screen, speakers and ports... an entry 14" Pro on sale would be the best way to go.

 

[Chancha]

I saw the base 14" M1 Pro MBP with 16 GB RAM/512 GB SSD at John Lewis for £1,735, like you said. I couldn't get the Lewis site to configure a base M2 Air with those specs, so I went to Apple's UK site, and built a base M2 Air with 16 GB RAM/512 GB SSD for £1,649.

So the M2 Air remains less expensive. Having said that, with only an ~ £100 difference, it seems the 14" M1 Pro MBP becomes even more appealing relative to the M2 Air in the UK (at least if you're comparing the base M1 Pro MBP to a BTO Air, as we're doing here, because of the discounts available specifically on base models). Of course, there will also be non-BTO versions of the M2 Air once it becomes available, and those will likewise have discounts, which should restore the difference to closer to ~ £250, which is their current difference in retail pricing at Apple UK (for equally-spec'd models in their respective base CPU/GPU variants).

View attachment 2017576

If you spec up the Air to the full 10-core GPU M2 then its price will be higher than the 14". If you leave that upgrade out, the binned M2 is even further away in GPU performance from the M1 Pro in the 14".

 

[Misheemee]

I don't believe you.

What I do believe, it's you're a liar.

It’s probably time to stop now.

As you know - a lot of physical stores are in strife due to lack of foot traffic and lost revenue due to Covid. There are some great “in store deals” to be had which aren’t advertised, and other deals to be had if you decide to go to store and negotiate. So links may not be able to be provided.

 

[theorist9]

It’s probably time to stop now.

As you know - a lot of physical stores are in strife due to lack of foot traffic and lost revenue due to Covid. There are some great “in store deals” to be had which aren’t advertised, and other deals to be had if you decide to go to store and negotiate. So links may not be able to be provided.

With all due respect, one-offs don't count.

If my local university bookstore happened to have, for whatever reason, a 16" MBP for less than the price listed on Apple's website for an equivalent 14" MBP, it would be misleading of me to post "You can get a 16" MBP cheaper than the 14" MBP if both are similarly speced from retailers."

And I emphasize the plural, because the original statement used a plural, implying some generality.

Now you might say the specific issue at hand is trivial, and you'd be right. But given how much misinformation spreads on the internet, the importance of asking that people back up suspicious claims with supporting evidence is not trivial at all.

 

[GooseInTheCaboose]

Ahead yes, but my general point is that the difference will be at the top end and negligible for most users. The other attributes of the 14” will feel more different than the speed of the machines, including the memory bandwidth gap.

What are some ways users would notice memory bandwidth gap?

If I want to load/scroll through a gigantic Photos library (300 GB), would more memory bandwidth in the M1Pro be noticably better compared to the M2 bandwidth? Like, in terms of displaying the previews, etc?

 

[jav6454]

What are some ways users would notice memory bandwidth gap?

If I want to load/scroll through a gigantic Photos library (300 GB), would more memory bandwidth in the M1Pro be noticably better compared to the M2 bandwidth? Like, in terms of displaying the previews, etc?

Only on memory intensive tasks or benchmarks which measure such things. Otherwise you will not notice the difference on your day to day or even professional usage.

 

[Pressure]

And we got an other person to join the ignore list.

Btw, if you look the post above, you see someone from the UK also seeing the exact same thing.

Funny, Apple is pushing for privacy and then you got people like you demanding that I basically show where I live, because you think I am liar.

If you guys are already making the assumption I have no integrity and lie, we have nothing to discuss and you join my ignore list.

I just want to add that in Scandinavia we can find deals on 14" MacBook Pro base model for cheaper than the M2 MacBook Air with 512GB SSD upgraded to 16GB of LPDDR5.

You can usually find the 14" MacBook Pro for 15.799,00 DKK (normal price 17.555,00 DKK) and the upgraded M2 MacBook Air is 15.999,00 DKK with 16GB of RAM.

It's really a no-brainer unless you only care about weight.

 

[theorist9]

I just want to add that in Scandinavia we can find deals on 14" MacBook Pro base model for cheaper than the M2 MacBook Air with 512GB SSD upgraded to 16GB of LPDDR5.

You can usually find the 14" MacBook Pro for 15.799,00 DKK (normal price 17.555,00 DKK) and the upgraded M2 MacBook Air is 15.999,00 DKK with 16GB of RAM.

It's really a no-brainer unless you only care about weight.

That 14" MBP you're seeing for 15.799,00 DKK is the lowest-priced version available with with 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD. The lowest-priced version of the M2 Air with 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD at Apple's Danish site is 15.099 DKK, not 15.999 DKK. So the M2 Air remains cheaper, except for occasional one-offs. Plus once the Air has been around for a few months, we'll start seeing deals on it as well.

I personally would take the M1 MBP over the M2 Air, but that's not what we're discussing here.

 

[uczcret]

Plus once the Air has been around for a few months, we'll start seeing deals on it as well.

Not on the BTO configurations though (Apple's education discount notwithstanding).

 

[theorist9]

Not on the BTO configurations though (Apple's education discount notwithstanding).

True, but then again those doing this comparison are creating an artificial situation by comparing the M2 Air with the build of the M1 Pro that just that happens to have the min spec. I.e., they're artificially comparing a BTO M2 Air with one of the few builds of the M1 Pro on which special deals can be had.

But what if you don't want this specific config—e.g., say you need a 1 TB or 2 TB SSD? In that case, you'd be BTO on both of them, and would be properly comparing Apples to Apples. Or suppose you have everything in the cloud, and would only get 256 GB SSD if you got the Air?

I'm not arguing in favor of one one the other (in fact, I'd probably prefer the M1 Pro MBP over the M2 Air if I were making the choice). I'm saying those making this comparison, without providing the needed caveats, have rigged the game by selecting the one config that gives the M1 Pro MBP a chance of *coming close* to the price of the M2 Air. And even with those contortions, the M2 Air is still less.

Thus anytime someone makes the following statement, without any qualification, they're just playing games with the truth:

You can get a 14" MBP M1 Pro cheaper than the M2 MacBook Air if both are similarly speced from retailers.

And note this poster can't say he's making this claim just for his specific locale because, on another thread I'm viewing, he posted the same statement in response to an OP who was wondering about the two machines, even though the OP never said where he lives.

I know I'm probably getting unnecessarily exercised about this but, after having lived through four years of "alternate facts" here in the US, I've grown pretty tired of such things.

 

[senttoschool]

It's very easy to calculate.

M2 MT: 18% improvement over M1. 7,434 * 1.18 = 8,772 Geekbench5.
M1 Pro 8 cores: 9,511 Geekbench5.

M1 Pro w/8 cores has 8.4% faster MT performance than M2.

Of course, 14" MBP can sustain the MT for longer because it has a fan and larger chassis.

All in all, I would rather have the M2 CPU performance over M1 Pro w/ 8 cores. This is because ST is more important to me and the MT is close enough.

Pretty much on target

 

[Pressure]

That 14" MBP you're seeing for 15.799,00 DKK is the lowest-priced version available with with 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD. The lowest-priced version of the M2 Air with 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD at Apple's Danish site is 15.099 DKK, not 15.999 DKK. So the M2 Air remains cheaper, except for occasional one-offs. Plus once the Air has been around for a few months, we'll start seeing deals on it as well.

I personally would take the M1 MBP over the M2 Air, but that's not what we're discussing here.

View attachment 2019860

Oh no.

Anyway.

For 700,00 DKK more you should just take the 14" MacBook Pro. I mean, honestly. The performance will be much greater than the low-binned M2, much better screen with ProMotion, better speakers, better I/O etc. etc.

 

[uczcret]

And note this poster can't say he's making this claim just for his specific locale because, on another thread I'm viewing, he posted the same statement in response to an OP who was wondering about the two machines, even though the OP never said where he lives.

That's a great point, I've been guilty of making that sweeping statement myself. Where I am (UK) the 14" MBP can be found cheaper at third party retailers than the 16/512 MBA but we have to keep in mind that's not the case everywhere.

 

[gradi]

This video has lots of benchmark info. GPU, etc. also.

M2 Chip Full Performance Benchmarks Revealed

 

[theorist9]

For 700,00 DKK more you should just take the 14" MacBook Pro. I mean, honestly. The performance will be much greater than the low-binned M2, much better screen with ProMotion, better speakers, better I/O etc. etc.

Sure, but that's the same thing I wrote in my post:

I personally would take the M1 MBP over the M2 Air, but that's not what we're discussing here.

[Perhaps I should have been more explicit and said the "14" M1 Pro MBP", but I thought that was understood from the two models we were comparing.]