I have missed that. Thanks for your explanation. I still wonder how this will effect daily tasks. Is it worth or not, otherwise I have no interest to buy any M2 variant right now.
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M2 Max 30-core Benchmarks
- Thread starter chrismu
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Yes you are right for this benchmark points out Blender. However faster GPU is only one part, it needs to feed by cpu so it could be change by scene construction. Blender can be tricky, it could ends with different results. I think you can only test it by your actual work.
Yes I will it got shipped today
Also 3.5 will be another story anyway with the metal viewport.
Sure it works for evee only right now, I think this will reflect to cycles as well very soon. Hope your new MBP will handle your needsYes I will it got shipped today
Also 3.5 will be another story anyway with the metal viewport.
Has anyone watched Max Tech's throttling video of the 14" M2 Max 38 core? In a few specific tests, he was able to get the 14" model to throttle so hard that it ran at about 1/3rd the performance it normally has. I wonder how common this would be in normal day to day, heavy-ish workloads?
Here's my workload (on my 2020 i9 10 core iMac with 64GB RAM):
- Photoshop open with multiple web site design documents open at retina resolution with up to hundreds of layers
- Illustrator open with a few vector files
- Lightroom Classic Open, not doing anything but ready to work
- Safari with ~20 tabs, Apple Music open
- GitHub Desktop, CodeKit, Sublime Text, Transmit FTP open all the time
- Terminal, Mail, iMessage, Notes, TextEdit all open all the time
- Ableton LIVE with one music project open in the background, usually open all the time
I run a creative studio and do web design, development, branding and photography. I also produce electronic music so often have a song I'm working on open in the background that I can jump to when I feel creative and need a break from my design/coding work.
My iMac handles all this stuff fine. So I am wondering if that kind of workload above would trigger the 38 core 14" model to throttle? Or is none of what I do enough to simultaneously cook the GPU and CPU together? Most of the time apps are sitting idle anyway. I don't do video or render 3D art.
Scott
Here's my workload (on my 2020 i9 10 core iMac with 64GB RAM):
- Photoshop open with multiple web site design documents open at retina resolution with up to hundreds of layers
- Illustrator open with a few vector files
- Lightroom Classic Open, not doing anything but ready to work
- Safari with ~20 tabs, Apple Music open
- GitHub Desktop, CodeKit, Sublime Text, Transmit FTP open all the time
- Terminal, Mail, iMessage, Notes, TextEdit all open all the time
- Ableton LIVE with one music project open in the background, usually open all the time
I run a creative studio and do web design, development, branding and photography. I also produce electronic music so often have a song I'm working on open in the background that I can jump to when I feel creative and need a break from my design/coding work.
My iMac handles all this stuff fine. So I am wondering if that kind of workload above would trigger the 38 core 14" model to throttle? Or is none of what I do enough to simultaneously cook the GPU and CPU together? Most of the time apps are sitting idle anyway. I don't do video or render 3D art.
Scott
Pro tip: Stop watching his poorly-executed, ill-informed click-bait. You'll thank me for it.
I have a 16" M2 Max with 38 cores and even under high stress I could barely get it spin up the fans and it never throttled. I have no idea what Max was doing and quite frankly I won't support his click count by looking.
Thank you
He was running Cinebench CPU benchmark and 3D Mark Wildlife Extreme GPU Benchmarks at the same time, basically. That was the major instance where the 14" throttled. The other was during a Final Cut Pro video export. Other than that, the 14" performance was great, although GPU performance did appear to be faster on the 16" model by about 20% regardless.
MaxTech also did some weird stuff in that video to make it appear that the M2 Max was throttling, when it actually was not, as Luke Miani pointed out. Miani demonstrated how performance was unchanged even if the fans on the M2 Max were manually ramped up, and that lowering the temperature of the SoC had no effect on performance of the system. I have also seen someone run Cinebench R23 ten times in a row on the M2 Max to see how performance changed over time. While the initial run scored highest, the remaining runs were all within a few points of each other, with neither a downward or upwards trend, meaning the system was not throttling and reducing performance in order to reduce the heat being generated.
MaxTech is also almost bipolar in that they will sometimes praise Apple's products, then turn around and release a video proclaiming the newest Samsung/Intel/Lenovo product marks the end of Apple as we know it. That channel has become the definition of clickbait.
If you listen to what he said about the test he was running, It was extreme hard test that most people would not do he pointed out. Perhaps you should do the same thing to see what results you get, but to badmouth him without actually know what he was saying about the test that hardly anybody would be doing is going to little bit too far about his YouTube channel and testing. Overall, he’s a pretty good tester. In my opinion.
They are enthusiastic, that’s for sure, but that’s what they do for a living. Some people are overly enthusiastic and other people are just so, so.
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I watched the video, honestly, in all the non-insane scenarios he tested, I felt like the 14-inch was as fast as the 16-inch. As far as the GPU upgrade goes, I don't think it is worth it, and that was the same between 24 core and 32 core with the M1 Max models. Obviously depends on what you do though, here's a very good comparison:
I have bought a 30 core M2 Max 14-inch yesterday, and so far, for everything I've done (mostly video though), it is blazing fast. Of course, I don't have anything to compare it, but I always felt like the throttling issues on the 14" models were overblown, as for real world scenarios, you don't need it to sustain peak performance for very long, let alone the stupid side-by-side benchmark stuff they do in the video.
MaxTech basically created a test that went far beyond what any rational person would be doing because they knew it was the only chance to trigger the desired result. That entire video is an example of causing a problem that fits the narrative they wanted to push (which was essentially "M2 Max is bad and throttles under load".) The fact that they buried the lead (the part about it being far beyond any real world workflow) behind a clickbait title just to drive views should tell you everything you need to know about the true purpose of that video...
Their results between the 14“ and the 16 inch is what I wanted to know, which has been confirmed by other reviewers. I can care less about the test that most of us would never use. I just want to know about the benchmark results along with the application used for my workflow. They are not the only ones I look at to confirm what is being shown.
I watch these as well….
Alex Ziskind
ArtIsRight
Luke Miani
Dave2D
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Thank you all for the past several comments, they're exactly what I've been looking for on how the M2 Max would perform in the 14" but had a hard time finding until now. Though I'd still like to ask for some advice on factors I'm weighing:
I've been debating between the MBP 14" M2 Pro 19c GPU vs M2 Max 30c GPU (knowing that I'd have no need for 38c GPU) with 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, plus Pro Apps Bundle for Education (Final Cut Pro, Motion, Compressor, Logic Pro, MainStage) and AppleCare+. Pre-tax with Apple Education pricing it'd be $3,108 for the M2 Pro and $3,248 for the M2 Max, so a $140 difference between the chips instead of the usual $200.
I'm less drawn by the +11c GPU of the Max than I am by the 400GB/s memory bandwidth of the Max compared to the 200GB/s of the Pro. But I do care about the battery life performance between the two chips on the 14" chassis. Initially I was hesitant to get the 14" M2 Max because of the clickbaity reviews raising thermal throttling and battery life issues, but based on the comments and benchmarks here I'm getting the impression that there really isn't a realistic cause for that concern if I'm not stressing it out to the max.
I'll be upgrading from a 2015 MBP, so either 2023 option will already be a huge improvement, but the biggest factor for me is the battery life of a device I hope will last me at least 5-7 years. I'm also getting the cost partially reimbursed through work, though I'd be willing to make the investment myself either way. If you were in my situation, would you just go with the Max for $140 more?
I've been debating between the MBP 14" M2 Pro 19c GPU vs M2 Max 30c GPU (knowing that I'd have no need for 38c GPU) with 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, plus Pro Apps Bundle for Education (Final Cut Pro, Motion, Compressor, Logic Pro, MainStage) and AppleCare+. Pre-tax with Apple Education pricing it'd be $3,108 for the M2 Pro and $3,248 for the M2 Max, so a $140 difference between the chips instead of the usual $200.
I'm less drawn by the +11c GPU of the Max than I am by the 400GB/s memory bandwidth of the Max compared to the 200GB/s of the Pro. But I do care about the battery life performance between the two chips on the 14" chassis. Initially I was hesitant to get the 14" M2 Max because of the clickbaity reviews raising thermal throttling and battery life issues, but based on the comments and benchmarks here I'm getting the impression that there really isn't a realistic cause for that concern if I'm not stressing it out to the max.
I'll be upgrading from a 2015 MBP, so either 2023 option will already be a huge improvement, but the biggest factor for me is the battery life of a device I hope will last me at least 5-7 years. I'm also getting the cost partially reimbursed through work, though I'd be willing to make the investment myself either way. If you were in my situation, would you just go with the Max for $140 more?
When I upgraded from my 2015 15” MBP with 2.8Ghz 4-core/16GB RAM to 2019 2.4Ghz 8-core/32GB RAM/Vega20 it was a substantial improvement. Going from 2015 to an AS-powered MBP will be a positive life-altering experience for you.
Go Max!
Go Max!
I don’t mind some of MaxTech’s videos as I know what I’m getting into (sensationalized, clickbait titles notwithstanding). I actually enjoy the tests that stress a system to the extreme even though the test isn’t indicative of a real-world workflow. Because it is cool to me to see just how much performance headroom AS provides. To have to go really out of your way to get AS to even remotely break a sweat is a testament to what a great job Apple has done in my opinion.
My issue with MaxTech (and I assume others feel similarly) is that MaxTech will go out of their way to find ways to bash something like the M2 Max MBP and present it on the video thumbnail as "OMG - The Mac is busted!! Apple is Doomed!!"
I'd also like to express appreciation for everyone's input in this thread. I think I will pull the trigger on what will hopefully be my main workstation for the next 3-4 years. I'm replacing my (still great) 2020 iMac 10 core i9 with 64GB RAM and Radeon Pro 5700XT, 1TB SSD.
Replacing the iMac with:
14" MacBook Pro / M2 Max 38 core GPU / 64GB RAM / 2TB SSD
+ 27" Apple Studio Display
Although sorta tempted to go for a 4TB SSD just to future proof myself as I seem to be doing a bit more photography for work with my D850 which outputs 47MP RAW files, and a bit more music production when I have spare time using more and more high-res samples.
Replacing the iMac with:
14" MacBook Pro / M2 Max 38 core GPU / 64GB RAM / 2TB SSD
+ 27" Apple Studio Display
Although sorta tempted to go for a 4TB SSD just to future proof myself as I seem to be doing a bit more photography for work with my D850 which outputs 47MP RAW files, and a bit more music production when I have spare time using more and more high-res samples.
With those file sizes you'll want external drives anyway, so don't worry too much about the 2TB. I personally buy the Sabrent TLC NVMe SSDs and put them in Acasis TB enclosures; it's crazy fast, small and relatively inexpensive.
I am trying to sort of see where the 14 inch 30 core GPU sits in terms of performance to battery life between the M1 Max 32 Core GPU and M2 Max 38 Core GPU.
Metal scores are:
M1 Max 32 Core - 64000-66000
M2 Max 30 Core - Roughly 76000
M2 Max 38 Core - Roughly 84000
The article that sort of peaked my interest is this one from tech crunch comparing the MacBook Pro 14 - M1 Max 32 Core GPU and the M2 Max.
In particular the difference in FPS in Tomb Raider:
1200p at lowest settings - M1 Max (32 Core) 69fps vs M2 Max (38 Core) 73fps
1964p at highest settings - M1 Max (32 Core) 31fps vs M2 Max (38 Core) 34 fps
Would anyone mind doing the same Tomb Raider benchmarks with their 14 inch M2 Max (30 Core)?
Battery Life - Scripted Web Browsing:
M1 Max - 15:32
M2 Max - 12:51
Battery life seems to be a big difference I am thinking this may be due to the 2 extra CPU cores (M1 Max 10 vs M2 Max 12)? Or do the 6 extra GPU cores have a huge part to play (I am not really savvy enough to know!). I haven't found anything that compares the 14 Inch M2 Max 30 vs 38 in terms of battery life - has anyone else found a comparison?
Reading around I have a feeling the M2 Max 30 Core GPU may be the sweet spot for the 14 inch. However, I am interested to see if you get a little more graphical performance with minimal hit to battery life in terms of general browsing going with the 38.
Metal scores are:
M1 Max 32 Core - 64000-66000
M2 Max 30 Core - Roughly 76000
M2 Max 38 Core - Roughly 84000
The article that sort of peaked my interest is this one from tech crunch comparing the MacBook Pro 14 - M1 Max 32 Core GPU and the M2 Max.
In particular the difference in FPS in Tomb Raider:
1200p at lowest settings - M1 Max (32 Core) 69fps vs M2 Max (38 Core) 73fps
1964p at highest settings - M1 Max (32 Core) 31fps vs M2 Max (38 Core) 34 fps
Would anyone mind doing the same Tomb Raider benchmarks with their 14 inch M2 Max (30 Core)?
Battery Life - Scripted Web Browsing:
M1 Max - 15:32
M2 Max - 12:51
Battery life seems to be a big difference I am thinking this may be due to the 2 extra CPU cores (M1 Max 10 vs M2 Max 12)? Or do the 6 extra GPU cores have a huge part to play (I am not really savvy enough to know!). I haven't found anything that compares the 14 Inch M2 Max 30 vs 38 in terms of battery life - has anyone else found a comparison?
Reading around I have a feeling the M2 Max 30 Core GPU may be the sweet spot for the 14 inch. However, I am interested to see if you get a little more graphical performance with minimal hit to battery life in terms of general browsing going with the 38.
How do you want the test done? I re-picked up the 30 core GPU and have refurb M1 Max 24/32 showing up tomorrow. I don't have a 38 core anymore though. There's thermal headroom but they're throttling anyway so for my main workflow scenarios the 38core provided no benefit even though on paper it should have. For anyone that cares I did pickup a 16" 38 core max and in my Topaz Video AI upscaling workload it performs like I was expecting (slightly faster than my M1 Ultra 48 core) while the 14" M2 Max is significantly slower than my 16" M1 Max 👎. I think this is because its similar to that "unrealistic" benchmark Max Tech runs. The software hits the CPU, GPU and Neural engines all pretty hard at the same time and Apple slows the CPU down a lot more in the 14" than the 16" if you're hammering the machine from all directions so I think that is what's going on. No idea if the M1 Max variants perform that way or not but I'll find out tomorrow!
While I take most of their stuff with a bit of grain of salt there are workloads that could trigger this scenario. I think that's what I'm seeing and why the M2 Max 14" I tested performed so much worse than I calculated it should. In Video AI it uses a lot of the CPU, GPU and Nueral engines all at once. The 14" M2 Max 30 and 38 GPU core upscale have no performance difference upscaling from 1080p to 4k. They perform at ~4.2fps. My M1 Max 16" does it in ~5.7fps. My M1 Ultra in ~6.8fps. My 14" M1 Pro does it in ~3.6fps. I had figured the M2 Max should be about on par with the M1 Ultra in this software so I was pretty bummed when it wasn't. However, I grabbed a 16" M2 Max to see how it compared. That gets 7fps which is what I would have expected.I know the M1 Max variants throttle on the 14" too but not sure to what degree and how its spread so I ordered a 24/32 core refurb of those too. If they're all about on par I'll end up sticking with the M1 Max 24 core. I know the FPS doesn't seem like much but we're talking in some cases days less processing on video.
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