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M3 Pro vs M3 Max for Video-Editing
- Thread starter Ambrosia7177
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Unfortunately the thread does not indicate if the media is external.
There are several threads on Blackmagic Design's forums.
To be honest, most of what I've seen online is over my head.
The commonality is that people are having issues with H.264 and H.265 files on M3 chips running Sonoma.
There don't appear to be any solutions, other than unchecking the hardware encoder or not trying to edit compressed video files.
This seems to be an issue just with M3 chips, as people with M1 and M2 chips seem to have no issues.
Of course this would be important to know about before spending thousands on a new MacBack Pro M3.
Oh, I agree. I want to be clear that in this case I was talking about the repetition of the Apple PR speak that claims 8GB on Apple silicon is like 16GB on Intel. And that’s just not true.
For AI, it’s useful because you can load larger models in RAM as part of the unified architecture, which means you get over some of the limits on consumer GPUs (tho those higher-end GPUs still perform better and faster) and for fine-tuning especially, this is clutch.
But for @Ambrosia7177’s used cases, whether the RAM is unified or not doesn’t change how their NLE will run. And we don’t have a great idea of when the AI features from Adobe and others will move client-side for tasks that could truly benefit from the unified RAM. Some stuff like certain blue effects and other things are done on-device now, but a lot of the AI stuff is happening server side.
I don’t use DR for most of my work (I like it but we’re a Premiere workplace) so I can’t tell you about this one way or another. It seems to be relatively edge case — the ubiquity of h.264 and h.265 makes me think that if this was a more common problem, we’d see more discussions about this. But it’s possible it’s a bug.
Reading through those threads, there seem to be so many variables, I can’t get a good read on what factors play into these issues.
Not to placate you, but DR 19 just entered beta and the final release will probably be out in June or July, so that would lead me hopeful that if the version 18 had issues, they might solve them in version 19.
DR is a cross-platform product and I don’t know their current breakdown in terms of what OS has more users. That said, if this were a show stopper on the latest processor from one of the largest equipment makers with two very common codecs, I’d expect it would get solved.
Since you’re aiming for a 4TB SSD, I am assuming most of your stuff will be edited on device and not external drives, which may be part of the problem here.
Regardless, this would be one of those things to check in the first 14 days I guess.
@filmgirl ,
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
Nonetheless, for those that are having issues, could things be resolved - no pun intended - either by...
1.) Shooting in ProRes from the get-go, or
2.) Transcoding any H.264 and H.265 footage into ProRes BEFORE trying to editing it in DaVinci Resolve?
There are a lot of people online that seem to recommend that in today's world you ALWAYS edit in ProRes when you have the option.
My only concern is that I believe you lose video quality transcoding from H.264/H.265 to ProRes, so how much of an issue would that be?
I am still on-the-fence about shooting with ProRes out of the gates on my (future) Sony a7Siii and iPhone 15 Pro Max.
It certainly complicates things, and adds expensive of needing more hardware (e.g. external SSD on your iPhone), but if the end result is much better - not only better quality, but issues in DaVici Resolve - then I guess that waht needs to be done.
Can you speak from experience on this?
I agree. Surprisingly, it seems a lot of people get M3 Pro and M3 Max laptops and then skimp on memory, so one thing I wondered about is, "Do these people have enough memory?"
Also - yet another thing I need to catch up on the times on - it seems that there are "good" and "bad" configurations for using external drives. (I guess using Thunderbold is the "modern" way?)
Maybe some of those people with issues were using sub-par external drives, enclosures, and cabling?
One would hope!
Yeah, my thoughts too.
Well, if I need to use an external drive for cache or whatever you use external drives for, then I can do that.
The main reason I want a 4TB drive, is my current laptop has a 2TB drive and is nearly maxed out just with day-to-day stuff (i.e. NON-video work). So I need 4TB just to last me a couple of years.
But, yes, I figure having an extra 2TB workspace that I can dedicate to video for now would be nice.
I know you said you use Premiere, but do you have any general advice for the "proper" way to use external drives when doing video-editing? (I thought I read on the DR forums that some people use TWO external drives - not sure what for?)
So if I buy a new M3 off of Apple's website, and get it and try it out, and run into some major issues like we are discussing here, I could get my $$$ back, or get a different laptop - no questions asked from Apple?
Thanks for the thoughts and help so far!! 👍
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
Nonetheless, for those that are having issues, could things be resolved - no pun intended - either by...
1.) Shooting in ProRes from the get-go, or
2.) Transcoding any H.264 and H.265 footage into ProRes BEFORE trying to editing it in DaVinci Resolve?
There are a lot of people online that seem to recommend that in today's world you ALWAYS edit in ProRes when you have the option.
My only concern is that I believe you lose video quality transcoding from H.264/H.265 to ProRes, so how much of an issue would that be?
I am still on-the-fence about shooting with ProRes out of the gates on my (future) Sony a7Siii and iPhone 15 Pro Max.
It certainly complicates things, and adds expensive of needing more hardware (e.g. external SSD on your iPhone), but if the end result is much better - not only better quality, but issues in DaVici Resolve - then I guess that waht needs to be done.
Can you speak from experience on this?
I agree. Surprisingly, it seems a lot of people get M3 Pro and M3 Max laptops and then skimp on memory, so one thing I wondered about is, "Do these people have enough memory?"
Also - yet another thing I need to catch up on the times on - it seems that there are "good" and "bad" configurations for using external drives. (I guess using Thunderbold is the "modern" way?)
Maybe some of those people with issues were using sub-par external drives, enclosures, and cabling?
One would hope!
Yeah, my thoughts too.
Well, if I need to use an external drive for cache or whatever you use external drives for, then I can do that.
The main reason I want a 4TB drive, is my current laptop has a 2TB drive and is nearly maxed out just with day-to-day stuff (i.e. NON-video work). So I need 4TB just to last me a couple of years.
But, yes, I figure having an extra 2TB workspace that I can dedicate to video for now would be nice.
I know you said you use Premiere, but do you have any general advice for the "proper" way to use external drives when doing video-editing? (I thought I read on the DR forums that some people use TWO external drives - not sure what for?)
So if I buy a new M3 off of Apple's website, and get it and try it out, and run into some major issues like we are discussing here, I could get my $$$ back, or get a different laptop - no questions asked from Apple?
Thanks for the thoughts and help so far!! 👍
I did not read the entire thread but will throw my 2¢ in.
My vote is to get a 16" over a 14" because screen real estate matters quite a bit when editing. Currently I have yet to hear the fans actually come on while using my 16" Max. I do not live in the Davinci/Resolve world but do a lot of Premier and After Effects work. Occasionally I will do stuff in Lightwave 3D.
To be honest, most of the time editing I am actually doing that on a 3840x1600 Dell Ultrawide. The only time I use the built in screen for work is if I am on show site or not home.
Anyone who says the 16" is too heavy, please, I used to lug around the 17" Powerbook or whatever they called that thing. Most professionals in the field want the biggest screen they can get. Personally I wish they still made the 17" form factor. The 16" also has more room for better cooling and battery cells.
My vote is to get a 16" over a 14" because screen real estate matters quite a bit when editing. Currently I have yet to hear the fans actually come on while using my 16" Max. I do not live in the Davinci/Resolve world but do a lot of Premier and After Effects work. Occasionally I will do stuff in Lightwave 3D.
To be honest, most of the time editing I am actually doing that on a 3840x1600 Dell Ultrawide. The only time I use the built in screen for work is if I am on show site or not home.
Anyone who says the 16" is too heavy, please, I used to lug around the 17" Powerbook or whatever they called that thing. Most professionals in the field want the biggest screen they can get. Personally I wish they still made the 17" form factor. The 16" also has more room for better cooling and battery cells.
Video editing with DaVinci on a 14" screen? I'd say the realistic minimum is a single 27" 4K monitor. I'm pretty sure the MacBook Pro will handle multiple external monitors. I'd rather be limited by "compute power" than by screen space. If Budget is an issue just make sure you still have enough to buy a decent monitor (or two) after you buy the computer. The nest thing you need for video is lots the storage space and then you need redundant backups. Work out the entire budget and if, after the monitor(s) and storage you can get the "max" then get it. But don't skimp i=on the screen just to be able to afford the Max, the screen and storage are more important.
H.264 is fine for editing. HEVC is more demanding, so if you’re doing multicam it might be too much, but it’s also fine. ProRes is terrific in quality and ease of processing, but it really does take up a huge amount (~4-5x) of space. If you can manage that, great.
I’ve had Blackmagic Cameras that shot to ProRes and while quality was great, H.264 on a subsequent camera got the job done just as well for my needs. Pro-level color correction is best done with ProRes, but my clients didn’t need that.
For more about ProRes, including quotes from the person who was in charge of it at Apple, read this:
A very few people (not me) seem to have had issues with M3 video encode/decode units with issues but Apple will fix this under warranty. I suspect this problem is pretty rare.
Thanks, but I travel for work, and having one or more 27" external monitors in a non-starter for my workflow - which is sorta why I started this thread earlier 14" or 16" MBP monitor?
I'm sure in an ideal world your advice makes sense, but I am doing all of my videography out in the field, so I need a mobile solution that is good enough for my use-case.
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Do you have an M3 laptop? If so, how does it handle H.264 and H.265 in DaVinci Resolve?
I’ve had Blackmagic Cameras that shot to ProRes and while quality was great, H.264 on a subsequent camera got the job done just as well for my needs. Pro-level color correction is best done with ProRes, but my clients didn’t need that.
For more about ProRes, including quotes from the person who was in charge of it at Apple, read this:
I am researching ProRes as we speak, my only concern is that it is introducing a lot of complexity that may be over my head being a beginner with video-editing.
But I do wonder if shooting in ProRes would take care of the issues many people with M3 chipsets seems to be having?
I hope you are right, because there seem to be enough people complaining about this to warrant some concern on my end, and make me hesitent to pull the trigger on a $5,000+ laptop.
If you had to guess, do you think this issue is a function of hardware (i.e. M3 chip), OS (i.e. Sonoma), application (i.e. DaVinci Resolve) or not having the drivers or whatever for H.264 and H.265?
If the issue is with the M3 chipset design then that is a non-starter for me.
If it is a simple firmware update, or an OS update, or maybe a DaVinci Resolve update, then I wouldn't be so worried.
As you all have been trying to help me out, I have been chewing on things, and I am leaning towards getting an M3 Max with 96GB of RAM because it is only about $1,000 more than an M3 Pro, and I just can't see spending $4,000 and ONLY getting 32GB of RAM. (To me, RAM is as important as CPU or GPU - although I realize that thinking is probably off.)
I really don't think many people are having issues with H.264 or H.265 decoding. As with anything, if you search, you'll find people with the issue, but I certainly haven't experienced it. All current Macs have the same encode/decode units built in; the Max chips just have more of them. There are a lot of Macs with those units, so if there was a widespread problem we'd be hearing a lot more about it.
I do have an M3 Max laptop, and I do have Resolve, but I only use it occasionally — I'm a Final Cut Pro editor. Still, it's using the same hardware encoding units that Resolve would be using, and I haven't had any issues.
My particular model is not build-to-order, it's the higher-end stock model of the 16" M3 Max, which comes with 48GB RAM. Perhaps that's the sweet spot? Here in Australia, it's easy to find stock models at a 10% discount, which certainly helps.
@funwithstuff ,
A good reminder when searching the Internet, I suppose.
True.
Do you typically edit directly in H.264 and H.265, or do you convert things to ProRes first?
And do you have any thoughts on this?
Any complaints about the noise of your 16" M3 Max?
Any complaints about heat on your 16" M3 Max?
Any thoughts about getting an M3 Max chip in a 14" laptop? (In case you haven't read the whole thread - or threads of mine - an extra 2" really would make a difference to me considering the cramped places that I work and because I travel a lot.)
A good reminder when searching the Internet, I suppose.
True.
Do you typically edit directly in H.264 and H.265, or do you convert things to ProRes first?
And do you have any thoughts on this?
Any complaints about the noise of your 16" M3 Max?
Any complaints about heat on your 16" M3 Max?
Any thoughts about getting an M3 Max chip in a 14" laptop? (In case you haven't read the whole thread - or threads of mine - an extra 2" really would make a difference to me considering the cramped places that I work and because I travel a lot.)
I edit natively with 4K and 6K media from a Lumix GH6, and very rarely convert to ProRes as FCP can edit this footage natively. I also don't use Background Rendering in FCP, which renders timelines to ProRes in the background. If you have a slower/older Mac and a new camera, transcoding to ProRes is fine. If you have an unusual action camera or drone that records in a non-standard flavour of H.264 or HEVC (not all files are equal) then sure, convert that to ProRes too, or use Proxy while you edit.
———
Please excuse the plug, but I do have a section on this in my book (link in my signature) in Chapter 3, under the heading "Understanding Original, Optimized and Proxy Footage".
———
Shooting native ProRes is a great option if you need the best quality and have the storage space.
No complaints about the noise or heat of my 16" M3 Max. I only really hear the fan while rendering in Blender or using something like Stable Diffusion.
I preferred the 16" form factor myself, but I didn't keep my old 14" M1 Max long enough to do many tests on heat dissipation, sorry. Max Tech on YouTube has done some of those tests I think?
A couple things to suggest-
- Do NOT spend money on a larger internal SSD. 1TB should be all you need to accommodate the apps you mention. NEVER store your media on the same boot drive as your system apps and supporting files, whether using a laptop or desktop machine. Buy a peppy external drive which will give you 40 Gb/s Thunderbolt 3-4 speed for the 4K work. Spinners are cheap these days, and NVE's are coming down.
- The Sony A7Siii is still a great camera. I happen to own one, and it's quite versatile. You may be able to get a used model for less, but definitely splurge on good glass. I couldn't afford Sony's F2.8 24-70 zoom so I bought Sigma's at half the price. Fine results.
- When it comes to desktop work, which I do for remote assignments coast to coast, the Mac Studio M1 Ultra I got in 2022 is still a beast, and quiet as a mouse even in demanding operations. Just astounding.
Best as always,
Loren
@funwithstuff ,
You imply that with a new Mac - especially the M3 chip - there is no need to convert video footage to ProRes for easier editing, unless maybe you have some funky drone or action camera footage, right?
If you'd write a book on DaVinci Resolve I'd be interested... ;-)
Is it necessary when your end product is going on the Internet or onto YouTube?
Would viewers be able to see an improvment with video shot and/or edited in ProRes?
Okay.
You imply that with a new Mac - especially the M3 chip - there is no need to convert video footage to ProRes for easier editing, unless maybe you have some funky drone or action camera footage, right?
If you'd write a book on DaVinci Resolve I'd be interested... ;-)
Is it necessary when your end product is going on the Internet or onto YouTube?
Would viewers be able to see an improvment with video shot and/or edited in ProRes?
Okay.
@Lorenzonio ,
Have to disagree on this. Um, I have nearly 2TB of day-to-day files on this 10-year-old MacBook Pro that I am typing on.
If my 2TB SSD is nearaly full now, I can't imagine buying a new MBP with anything less than a 4TB internal.
Sounds like a HARSH warning...
WHY do you say that??
How can it be better to work off an external drive - that most certainly is not as fast as your internal SSD?
Yeah, it seems like the best camera for my needs, but it soooo expensive, and it looks like the price just went up some more.
Just for the body and a decent lens you're looking at about $6,000 (minus sales tax).
Then, yesterday, my fantasies of shooting in ProRes came to a grinding halt when I see an Atomos external monitor/storage is like another $1,000. Then if you add in extra SSD's and accessories, you are looking at an $8,000 - $10,000 rig!!
I might just have to settle for getting a new iPhone 15 Pro Max and shooting ProRes on that, but I **really** want to have a real camera, with real manual settings, and a real "normal" lens.
I have to work "remote" at my "remote" job, so a laptop is my only option. Plus when I travel, a laptp is een more necessary.
That relates to my response to your opening "salvo"!! ;-)
Have to disagree on this. Um, I have nearly 2TB of day-to-day files on this 10-year-old MacBook Pro that I am typing on.
If my 2TB SSD is nearaly full now, I can't imagine buying a new MBP with anything less than a 4TB internal.
Sounds like a HARSH warning...
WHY do you say that??
How can it be better to work off an external drive - that most certainly is not as fast as your internal SSD?
Yeah, it seems like the best camera for my needs, but it soooo expensive, and it looks like the price just went up some more.
Just for the body and a decent lens you're looking at about $6,000 (minus sales tax).
Then, yesterday, my fantasies of shooting in ProRes came to a grinding halt when I see an Atomos external monitor/storage is like another $1,000. Then if you add in extra SSD's and accessories, you are looking at an $8,000 - $10,000 rig!!
I might just have to settle for getting a new iPhone 15 Pro Max and shooting ProRes on that, but I **really** want to have a real camera, with real manual settings, and a real "normal" lens.
I have to work "remote" at my "remote" job, so a laptop is my only option. Plus when I travel, a laptp is een more necessary.
That relates to my response to your opening "salvo"!! ;-)
I usually can't even preview my iPhone 11 Pro Max and GoPro footage, let alone try and edit it.
Am confused by your statement, because I am pretty sure that 2015 MBP's didn't have the hardware technology - not sure the right way to say that - when it came to 4K video.
Either way, my 2015 MBP is nearly dead - swollen battery, bad USB port, speakers failing, and lots of weird behavior.
Time for a modern (and powerful) new MacBook Pro!
Strange, iPhone 12 Pro, Go Pro 8 and Nikon Z6ii are the cameras I'm using. Sure, it's slow to transcode or render but no issues editing. I'm using FCPX. Anyhow, my point was you don't need anything crazy for 4K.
Codec performance:
Yes, I would say that if you're using a modern Mac, and you're shooting with a common camera using the H.264 or HEVC codec, and editing with FCP, then you don't need to convert to ProRes just to be able to edit smoothly. Resolve should be OK too; Premiere is OK but lags a little (and the color management is bad).
There are hardware decoders for all three of these codecs onboard, so they aren't nearly as hard to deal with as they used to be. ProRes is easy to work with even without hardware decoding, but with it, you can play multiple streams at massive resolutions. (Multicam is probably the only area where you might struggle a little if you have several streams of HEVC.)
Resolve:
I'm afraid that Resolve changes so much, and so regularly, that it would be a real struggle to keep a book up to date. Also, they have already released their own books for multiple different audiences, for free: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/au/products/davinciresolve/training
Apple stopped updating their official FCP books a few years ago, and I stepped into that gap.
Is ProRes necessary:
If you want to shoot on an iPhone 15 Pro using the official app, ProRes brings a whole heap of other benefits, disabling oversharpening and tone mapping. On other cameras, ProRes does a few things. It reduces compression artifacts. It increases color fidelity (up to 12-bit, while HEVC usually offers 10-bit and H.264 usually offers 8-bit). It also take a lot more space than a compressed codec, and it's easy to work with on almost any Mac, with or without hardware assistance.
If you're targeting online delivery and you're not planning to perform extreme grading, you probably don't *need* to shoot ProRes if your Mac can handle compressed footage. However, if you're shooting for streaming or for cinema distribution, you'll absolutely want to shoot ProRes or a camera raw format — they really do push the image around. Lifting the shadows, recovering nearly-lost highlights, or doing subtle color correction can reveal the inherent compression of lossy codecs. Different parts of the industry have very, very different needs, so expect strong opinions out there.
But don't overthink it. Most people will see a very heavily compressed image at a much lower data rate than you see in the edit. You might shoot at 100Mbps (or way higher in ProRes), then export to 20Mbps, and the end user will see an image at 2.5Mbps.
I wouldn't say they're lying, but with an older setup, some cameras were very much easier than others to work with than others. Panasonic cameras (which I use) have always recorded compressed files that were straightforward (I could cut in 4K easily on those later Intel MBPs) but I know other people had a much harder time.
For example, some higher-end Canon mirrorless made video files with a massive bitrate, some weirdness to the way they wrote H.264, or they used difficult compressed codecs like Canon Raw Light.
@funwithstuff ,
Good to know that I have options, and that maybe H.265 (HEVC) isn't as "evil" as some people make it sound.
Hey, I can't even afford one camera right now! *LOL*
Yeah, I hope to get into multi-cam footage, but that is down the road.
Yeah, I am thinking of buying that.
I hope that bring you great success!
Okay.
Okay.
That is a very good - if not disappointing - point that you make.
Although, if you shoot RAW or ProRes and later on Hulu comes looking for you, or YouTube ups their game and starts providing higher-quality videos, then those who chose RAW or ProRes from the get-go will be better off.
In other words, shooting in RAW or ProRes might help to future-proof your work, right?
Good to know that I have options, and that maybe H.265 (HEVC) isn't as "evil" as some people make it sound.
Hey, I can't even afford one camera right now! *LOL*
Yeah, I hope to get into multi-cam footage, but that is down the road.
Yeah, I am thinking of buying that.
I hope that bring you great success!
Okay.
Okay.
That is a very good - if not disappointing - point that you make.
Although, if you shoot RAW or ProRes and later on Hulu comes looking for you, or YouTube ups their game and starts providing higher-quality videos, then those who chose RAW or ProRes from the get-go will be better off.
In other words, shooting in RAW or ProRes might help to future-proof your work, right?