OS X Mac Gaming is Awesome!

[VI™]

Again, as I mentioned in the OP this was not intended to become a discussion about performance, hardware, PCs, etc.

This is simply saying that judged on its own merits Mac gaming is awesome and I still maintain it is. I was responding to someone who thought there wasn't much to choose from. Later he came back and posted a reply letting me know he had no idea there was so much to choose from. Mission accomplished.

I think we need to stop comparing OS X to Windows here. It isn't Windows. It doesn't offer DirectX. It also isn't Playstation 4 or Xbox One. It isn't Nintendo either. It's Mac OS X and there's a lot of good games one can enjoy on Mac OS X. That's all I was saying.

If you want to play on the Windows platform instead that's fine. Go ahead. I'm not saying anyone who wants to shouldn't. If you want a high end gaming rig then build it and put Windows on it or make yourself a hackintosh. Fine. I'm not here to tell anybody how to live.

All I am saying is a Mac running OS X can be pretty cool for gaming. I know I have fun with mine and feel no pain not having a PC. While I respect your own choices completely I think some of you guys just need to remember that what is acceptable and enjoyable in terms of hardware and gaming performance is a subjective thing. Note, I am NOT saying hardware specs are subjective. I am saying whether the difference between 40 FPS and say 80 matters to somebody is subjective. Whether High settings is good enough or Ultra is a must is subjective. Etc. For example, when I am playing something if it looks decent and runs smoothly, I am happy. I don't really care what FPS it is running at in this case and while it would be cool to always play everything in Ultra at 1440p, I am okay with high settings or even lower resolutions as needed to get that smooth looking performance that still looks at least reasonably decent to me. I'm sure I am not the only one who feels this way.

Most gamers aren't even on forums like this debating hardware, system software, etc., etc. They just buy and play stuff. You know? I know it sounds crazy...

----------



That's not correct actually. The survey is updated on a regular basis and is dated as such each time. It is a recent snapshot of active Steam accounts. There is over 40,000,000 Steam accounts and it is the leading PC gaming platform and retailer. I think that qualifies as representative with of course some small statistical margin of error.

But it is like compairing Wii to Playstation. The Wii gets some of the big games, but most are ports. It doesn't get all the major titles. The Wii also has a very large catalogue of games, but a lot of them are crappy games that people buy, waste 30 minutes on, and don't ever really play again.

How many of the 1,000 games on Steam are worth playing?

I have steam on my OS X partition and on my Win 7 partition. I have currently 10 or so games downloaded on my Windows partition and two on my OS X partition. I'm actually going to delete one and just have Shadowrun left.

I wouldn't say OS X is awesome for gaming. OS X is almost adequate for gaming.

 

[antonis]

I've been trying to communicate but perhaps failing to do a good job of it that this is not about comparing the Mac platform to Windows, PS4, Xbox, Nintendo or any other platform. You could apply the same logic to Windows asking when various PS4 exclusives are coming there. They aren't. So even if you prefer PS4 generally, if you want to play those particular titles enough to spend for it, you need a PC or you can run those with bootcamp on an appropriate Mac model that can handle them.

It is in fact whether or not someone subjectively finds the performance acceptable. I know you find that idea hard to live with but not everybody is you and their experience is not ruined by less than maximal performance. For a lot of people, the tradeoff in not needing to reboot or have Windows at all is worth it. I understand it is not worth it for you personally. That's fine. But it is a subjective call. I'm fine with it so long as performance meets certain minimum standards that are acceptable to me and if not there is plenty of other stuff to play instead. That choice too is a subjective one of course. If some game I like doesn't work well enough to suit me, yeah that sucks. It happens on Windows too. But with over a thousand games to choose from just on Steam alone, I am pretty sure I can find something else to have fun with and get over it.

It kind of makes me a little sad to see gamers on a Mac gaming forum so negative about gaming on the Mac but I don't think the outcry I see from some is truly representative of the greater body of Mac gamers. Otherwise, I don't think we'd be seeing a surge in new titles being made for OS X and I don't Feral and Aspyr would still be in business. Somebody must be liking it besides just me.

Well said. I do love gaming on the Mac. Among my friends and colleagues (where almost everyone owns a PC) none of them can actually play a AAA title on max settings, either. The vast majority of PC gamers are also making compromises in graphics quality. That's not to say that both platforms are equal on that matter, of course.

 

[Solomani]

I don't think Mac Gaming is "awesome". I do think that the state of Mac Gaming has gotten better in recent years (e.g. Aspyr and Feral giving us solid AAA title ports with shorter delays behind the PC original).

Getting better, yes. Awesome? No.

 

[Dirtyharry50]

What does it matter if games are setup with Wine or Boxer from GOG? If I get a pretty icon in Launchpad and can click it and fire up a great game why would I care what technology is used to make that happen? Some Cider stuff seems to work fine. I know The Witcher has a reputation but I've been playing it recently and no issues so far here. It looks and runs great. Actually, I am forgetting that The Witcher runs with Wine.

In my list above I have many more native games I happen to own than games for Wine or Boxer or Cider or all of them put together. But again, if I can buy it retail and it "just works" what is the problem? Why is that bad?

I noted Feral alone mentioned in one post above like nobody else develops for Mac games. I love Feral but what about Aspyr, Blizzard, Virtual Programming, Turbine, countless indie developers, Bethesda (ESO upcoming) and there is more I'm forgetting I'm sure but those are big names all of them off the top of my head.

It's like you guys don't want to hear good news and just dismiss it for some reason. I don't get that. Why are you even here in a Mac gaming forum then? Seriously? I really am wondering if you think it sucks and prefer Windows or something else why would you come here? I am genuinely curious. I am reading above that Mac hardware sucks for gaming, OS X sucks for gaming, elsewhere I've read OpenGL sucks, everything sucks. Wow. I wonder if maybe you guys are depressed and need meds or something. Ha ha! I am kidding but honestly all the negativity here of all places does surprise me.

Maybe I am crazy and maybe I am just not a "real gamer" even though I have been playing games on computers since the mid-1980s. Maybe I just have no real standards, poor vision and play slowly anyway. I am getting older. So maybe it is just me liking something that nobody else could. Maybe that is it.

But since Mac gaming seems to be growing each year and people besides me are buying the games keeping companies like Feral, Aspyr and Virtual Programming in particular in business I have to think that somewhere out there not here in this forum but somewhere out there are others who like me think playing games on a Mac is fun, awesome even.

 

[Dirtyharry50]

How many of the 1,000 games on Steam are worth playing?

In fairness the same question could easily be asked about the Windows games on Steam couldn't it?

I'm tempted to create a list here of well known big name games available now for OS X that offer more hours of entertainment than a working adult would have time for but I don't think it would help. Instantly I'd get, "Yes but no Call of Duty Ghosts? No Battlefield 4?" etc.

Of course, my answer to those questions would be a Playstation but that's my preference. Once you throw a console into the mix, you're golden. No Windows needed, no PC needed. But that's just my approach. To each their own.

 

[McGiord]

Can I play on my Mac:?check
Lode Runner? check
Dark Castle? check
Beyond Dark Castle? check
Dark Castle 3? check
SWGB?check
Star Wars Battlefront? check
Do I need Windows to play them? No. Check Mate!

For everything else there is a PS3.

 

[Washac]

Check Mate, I think not..........

Can I play Fallout 3 ? No.
Can I play Fallout New Vegas ? No.
Can I play RIFT ? No.
Can I play Guild Wars 2 (Native ) ? No.

 

[VI™]

Steam box.

/thread

 

[Red Cube]

I'll recommend some good first person shooters/ that use the Source/Goldsrc engine that are available for the Mac:
literally any game made by Valve (Team Fortress 2, Half-Life series, Counter-Strike series, Left 4 Dead 2)
Garry's Mod (A must-play for almost anyone on Steam)
Rust (Made by the guy who made Garry's Mod, similar to DayZ)
Insurgency
Estranged: Act I (Half-Life 2 mod)
No More Room in Hell
Synergy (Half-Life 2 mod)
Valve's Source engine is very good, and most Source engine games have a working Mac version.
Happy playing!

 

[Miharu]

Blizzard is the only developer that makes Mac games with Mac specific things. I don't know about the retina thing but at least you can adjust the UI scaling size. WoW has Mac only iTunes notifications and movie recording. SC2 gives that bounce in the dock when you get a message if it's not on top.

I wouldn't say Mac gaming is awesome, but it's decent since Intel switch.

 

[petvas]

Here you can find a list of Retina Mac Apps: http://retinamacapps.com

I don't know if the list is very updated, but there you can find some games, optimized for Retina displays.

 

[Dirtyharry50]

Steam box.

/thread

lol

 

[Huntn]

Instead of using the word "awesome" I'd call Mac native gaming adequate if expectations are not too high, if you don't mind the biggest games not being available or appearing many months later with lesser performance than the equivalent Windows version. Other than that Macs are awesome!

 

[Irishman]

Too often, even here of all places I keep seeing people put down Mac gaming often citing a lack of games to play as a major problem. Someone who just got a Mac posted this comment on the GOG.com forums today:

"As for Macs, I just got one and it's pretty nice, well not for gaming due to the lack of games..."

Because I have become a zealot I guess, I could not let this go unanswered of course. This was my reply which I wanted to share with you guys. In some cases I will be preaching to the choir I think but maybe for anyone new poking around here this will be seen as some encouraging good news.

As for the entire issue of game performance in OS X versus Windows on a particular Mac, that is another topic being addressed in other threads here so please let's keep it that way. It is subjective (what is acceptable) and it varies quite a lot with variables such as system hardware configuration and from one game to another. With this out of the way, here was my little speech:

I just checked Steam and as of this writing there are 1,115 Mac games there.

Here's a bunch on GOG. I didn't count them all: http://www.gog.com/games/##system_osx=106,107

The Mac App Store has tons of games including some well known ones not on Steam such as Tropico 4, Total War series games, Bioshock series (latest is on Steam), and just too many others to list here. Oh yeah, both Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2 Enhanced versions are on the App Store also.

Blizzard on Battlenet offers WoW, SC II and Diablo III

Turbine Entertainment offers LoTRO and DDO on their site.

The Elder Scrolls Online will be releasing on day 1 for Macs.

Some highly anticipated kickstarter projects will also be releasing for Macs such as Torment, etc.

Let me just check my own library here...

249 OS X native Mac games
14 OS X games setup with Cider (by the game developers)
97 OS X games setup with Wine by me (and GOG) including too much awesomeness to list here.
36 OS X games setup with Boxer by me (and GOG) all awesome classic titles
----
396 games in total that are currently in my backlog to play on my Mac. There are even more than I just listed here from checking my database but those are in the maybe/someday bin.

And that does not include another 100 I plan to play in a Windows XP virtual machine with Parallels and 40 left for Bootcamp (backlog) before I ditch that since good new stuff for Mac keeps releasing at a pace faster than I can keep up with.

Now, it is true that some AAA releases I might want to play do not release for Macs. Playstation 2, 3 and 4 is the answer here and for me I am working on my library of PS2 games currently. Great new releases I cannot get for Mac, I will often be able to get for a PS4 eventually if I ever catch up around here.

So between the Mac and a console I honestly see zero compromise in not having Windows. The only reason I keep it around on my Mac at all for now is just to play legacy stuff I owned before I got the Mac and when I am caught up with that - goodbye Windows. There's just no need.

Just sticking to computers though and forget the console, I've got almost 400 games to play and it isn't like they are not good, well received and well known games either. Steam has over a thousand Mac titles and there is more they don't have on the App Store and Origin and Blizzard, etc. So I guess the question might be how many games do you really need?

No platform has it all. Windows for example does not get Xbox, Playstation or Nintendo exclusives. The consoles do not get all games on PC. Mac is a smaller platform. It does get less releases than Windows certainly but it does get way more than anyone could keep up with who has a life outside of gaming that is for sure.

So it isn't really accurate to put down the Mac platform as sucking for games or being limited because honestly it doesn't suck at all and all platforms have some limitations. The beauty of a Mac for those who prefer them but do want access to Windows games is you can use Windows too if you want. I do not prefer that myself but the option is there for those who want it and choice is always good.

I'm not trying to convert the world here but I do like to let people know Mac gaming is not some barren wasteland of iOS ports on the App Store. We get a lot of great stuff which I won't list out here but you can see for yourself by checking the places I've mentioned above. By the way, some of those iOS ports only on Mac are pretty fun.

Agreed. There's never been a better time to be a Mac gamer!

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The fact is that the OS X availability is still small compared to Windows games. It's not a platform issue, it's an issue with devs not wanting to bother with OS X, although this is slowly becoming less and less of a problem.

It's also worth pointing out that you'll never be able to build a Mac like you can a regular tower, without going the Hackintosh route. You're either stuck with what Apple gives you, or you turn to building a tower with Windows (or OS X if you're feeling up for it) running and choose the graphics card and other parts that you need.

And yet millions are able to enjoy gaming on their Macs even with these limitations. I do it every day!

----------

Regretfully, I disagree OP. Mac gaming could be miles better. Lack of titles, lack native support and lack of DirectX all contribute to a rather lackluster experience in my opinion.

DirectX is not needed to make gaming on the Mac better. That's a red herring.

What is needed is a constantly-improving OpenGL implementation to match that of the OpenGL team.

----------

Mac Gaming is getting better but the crux of the matter is for me, is that OSX is an inferior gaming environment at the moment. For me, performance matters.

I bought Dishonored, Far Cry 3 and Skyrim in the Steam sale and it is not currently possible to play these without installing Windows.

I am well aware of WINE and emulators but as far as I am concerned that is not a premium gaming experience.

As I said in another thread, "Mac gaming" is not the issue. Gaming in OSX is.

So, do you upgrade your PC gaming build every time new titles come out that cause dropped frames or stutter? Do you mind if I ask how much you've spent on keeping your gaming PC cutting edge? And for how long?

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The Steam survey isn't really representative of 'gamers'. It's everyone who's ever installed Steam on any old machine, possibly out of curiosity.

That's who gamers are. LOL It's not representative of ONLY Hardcore gamers.

 

[lJoSquaredl]

Luckily I only play Blizzard games, or League of Legends on my rMBP, so i'm in heaven They all run well and look amazing on my retina screen, couldn't be happier!

 

[VI™]

lol

In all seriousness, I'm excited for the steam box OS...if it works.

I've downloaded games to Windows of all things that are broken. But having what basically amounts to a game console that you can upgrade in the future is pretty amazing. Just download your games and play. The controller integration is pretty good from what I've been reading as well.

I haven't dug enough, but if the steam OS has the ability to do everything a full fledged OS can do it will be what PS4 and Xbox One want to be. You'll be able to play a ton of games ranging from indie developers to AAA titles. Backwards compatibility won't be much of an issue unless you're trying to play something like Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines or other older unoptimized titles, and with a bluetooth keyboard handy, you could watch Netflix, etc... or stream movies from a server. I know it has a Linux backend you can access, IIRC, but it would be stupid for them not to allow you easy access to media apps like a VLC player or Netflix/Hulu type streaming services.

And 4 years down the road when your video card is lacking, you can upgrade to a new one for cheaper than a new console. I have a 6-7 year old i7-920 in my gaming PC and it runs most games beautifully with my GT 680 card on a 30" monitor. I know I spent a lot of money on the card, but you definitely don't need all that horsepower when you're playing on a 1080 TV. Of course, with 4k becoming the new standard, that may change, but for now a $100-$200 GPU will be more than enough card.

 

[Wardenski]

So, do you upgrade your PC gaming build every time new titles come out that cause dropped frames or stutter? Do you mind if I ask how much you've spent on keeping your gaming PC cutting edge? And for how long?

I don't have a gaming PC.

I spent £420 buying a new PC 5870 2GB in early 2010. Every other upgrade I have made to my Mac Pro has not been gaming related. For example I had to buy an Apple 5770 when my 8800GT died since my Mac would not boot with just the 5870 at the time.

No point in me buying a new GPU for my Mac Pro, because the CPU is becoming the limitation (> 80 % Far Cry 3) and also the games I have run well enough for me.

 

[saturnotaku]

Valve's Source engine is very good, and most Source engine games have a working Mac version.

Working, yes. Well optimized, hardly. I can run all Valve's titles at native resolution (1680x1050) with anti-aliasing and anisotropic filtering on my Windows partition. In OS X, I have to drop the resolution (to 1280x800) and many of the detail settings to get comparable performance with the exact same hardware.

I am in the camp who believe that gaming on OS X is getting better, but it's not even remotely close to what I would call awesome. What I would use that word for is the fact that I can play games in both OS X and Windows without having to own two computers.

 

[old-mac-man]

I have a new iMac and it runs both Windows and OSX games very nicely.

Skyrim, RailWorks and Rome 2 run fine in Windows, Planetary Annihilation, Civ 5 and Godus are good to go in OSX.

I'm looking forward to playing Elite: Dangerous and Shroud of the Avatar in OSX in the coming year.

 

[twingo]

Maybe I am crazy and maybe I am just not a "real gamer"...

You may be right only with this.
My new maxed out Macbook Pro is 5 times as expensive than my 5 year old PC. But the old PC is still the better gaming machine.

 

[urbanman2004]

Gaming on the Mac is alright, not awesome... If only Rayman Origins would freaking recognize my PS3 controller, I'd be in business.

 

[0098386]

I'm platform neutral, but I can see why some people put Mac gaming down. It doesn't matter how many games it supports if the game you want to play doesn't run on Mac. Mac (and Linux) compatibility is growing but it isn't 100%. It's not reliable enough to load up Steam, see a cool game but be unable to play it.

On top of that OSX has less controller compatibility, some games don't have DLC available on Mac versions, they might not like how the mouse moves in OSX (my biggest reason for using Bootcamp), performance is almost always worse. On my own setup my iMac won't output a 5.1 sound in games under OSX via my Sony surround system, but Windows 7 does.

If all you have is OSX then it's great, though.

 

[saturnotaku]

I'm platform neutral, but I can see why some people put Mac gaming down. It doesn't matter how many games it supports if the game you want to play doesn't run on Mac. Mac (and Linux) compatibility is growing but it isn't 100%.

I would also add to this games that might have Mac ports but are not optimized and/or run poorly. Max Payne 3, The Witcher 2, and countless others fall into this category.

 

[edddeduck]

Steam box.

/thread

The list of games that run on Linux (required for a true Steambox) is tiny compared to Mac OS X never mind Windows True you can install Windows (but that's not longer a true SteamBox) it's a bit like using Bootcamp and saying you are playing Mac games. Streaming from a Mac or PC to a Steambox is interesting but is likely only good for turn based and slower paced games, anything else the lag makes it less fun to play.

Blizzard is the only developer that makes Mac games with Mac specific things.

Feral have supported Mac specific things for a decade now, over the years things I have personally helped add to Feral games includes:

1. iTunes pausing when dropping into game (un-pauses when you quit)
2. iChat status updates when you start playing.
3. Auto updates built into games
4. Automatic pad support PS1,2,3,4 360, GameCube, Logitech you name the pad and it will likely be supported and automatically be correctly mapped by default. We can even add in support using a plugin system if you pad isn't on the list. I think the list of pads that will map up is around ~125.
5. Retina support in most titles (all new games and every time we update an older game). The ability to scale the UI or not depends on the game engine some scale better than others.
6. Automatic crash reporting to Feral along with Support information generation to help end users if something does go wrong. It's not useful unless you have a bug but when you do it allows you to send us almost everything we need to look into the issue.
7. Screenshots with built in metadata recording the game name, your system spec and hardware and OS/Game versions.
8. Support for overlay notifications from OS X
9. Support for multiple monitors, you can always choose what monitor you want to use.
10. Some games we add in Mac extras here are a few of the examples:
"The Movies" were integrated with iTunes and iMovie so you can do things like use your iTunes music in your games editing.
"XIII" We added in every multiplayer mode and Map into XIII from all the consoles and the PC.
"Batman Arkham Asylum" The PS3 Joker mode was included on the Mac version of BMAC unlike the other consoles and PC.
"Sega Racing" Adding Online Multiplayer back into the game as it was split screen only on the PC.
11. iCloud game syncing for games with small save games (we can't on large games due to space concerns).

I am sure I can think of many more but those are a few off the top of my head, we also fix cross platform bugs when possible. Making the Mac version better and adding in Mac specific feel and features is something I care about (as you can tell from the list I made ). I like to think we make Mac versions of games we don't just make Mac ports. It's a subtle difference but one that I think goes to the heart of why we do what we do.

The list of new Mac only extras that we want to do is long and we add them into our standard list of features one by one. If you have a nice feature that would make our games better just drop me a PM, I cannot guarantee it will be implemented but we do read and listen to our user base on this and other forums when looking for ideas on what we could improve or add to our games.

Edwin

 

[rampancy]

But it is like compairing Wii to Playstation. The Wii gets some of the big games, but most are ports. It doesn't get all the major titles. The Wii also has a very large catalogue of games, but a lot of them are crappy games that people buy, waste 30 minutes on, and don't ever really play again.

You're missing the OP's point. If you want or prefer/enjoy the Mac experience, and you love gaming, now has never been a better time to enjoy gaming on the Mac. Yes, Mac gaming has a long, long way to go before it enjoys the same "top tier" status as Windows, on many fronts (API support, performance, availability), but he's speaking from the perspective of someone who uses their Mac as a computer, and as a gaming device.

If gaming is your primary focus, then you shouldn't be on the Mac in the first place - that much is obvious, and if you bought a Mac as a gaming machine, then you've made a foolish purchasing decision (IMHO). One could even argue that you should be a console gamer (or get a Steam machine/use Steam OS). But for people like the OP – and myself – who think of their Macs as all-around productivity devices, there are a wealth of options available for gaming. And of course, you could make this a complete non-issue by installing Windows (either with a VM or Boot Camp) anyway.

As someone who uses - and games on - Mac & PC, I look at it this way (and this is the advice I give):
- If you are buying a computer with the dominant use being current-generation gaming, buy a PC. Period.
- If you need a general purpose computer and would like to do some amount of gaming ... buy a Mac (or PC depending on programs you might need)

Exactly.

To be fair, though, given that GOG stands for Good Old Games, it'd be very difficult for these games to be ported for Mac, so many years after their original release. What is really bad, though, is that sometimes (just like you wrote) these wrappers are bad. Games that don't run flawlessly with a wrapper should not be sold as "Mac games", cause they are not.

GOG just means GOG - they dropped "Good Old Games" several years ago when they broadened their focus to indie and newer games. The beauty of GOG is that a lot of their older Windows-only titles actually do work quite well in either WINE or DOSBox, either working perfectly out of the box or with very minor tweaks. Planescape: Torment, Ground Control 2, and System Shock 2 are good examples of such games.

Most gamers aren't even on forums like this debating hardware, system software, etc., etc. They just buy and play stuff. You know? I know it sounds crazy...

Sadly, a lot of (most?) "gamers" derive more pleasure from participating in platform/franchise/publisher/developer fanboyism or obsession over trivialities like Steam achievements than actually playing and enjoying their games. Either that or arguments over specs, as if somehow, their enjoyment of their gaming experience is directly proportional to how superior they can feel over others.

These days, it also seems like people buy games not because they're good (or even in spite of the fact that they're bad, or in spite of the bad consumer practices of their developers/publishers) but simply because they were offered on deep discount in a Steam sale.

You may be right only with this.
My new maxed out Macbook Pro is 5 times as expensive than my 5 year old PC. But the old PC is still the better gaming machine.

Silly nonsense like this (a maxed out MacBook Pro from 2014 being inferior to a Windows machine from 2009? Really?) is another example of the problem here: people obsessed with the "PC Master Race" mindset, as if only people who are "hardcore" and use Windows have the right to be anointed with the holy label of "real gamer". It's eerily reminiscent of how Religious Fundamentalists feel how they can decide who is/isn't a "Real True Christian" (or "Real True Muslim", etc...)

It kind of makes me a little sad to see gamers on a Mac gaming forum so negative about gaming on the Mac

To be fair to you, I always had the impression that a large number of people who post to the MacRumors forums were actually people who blindly bash Apple products and their users...