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What a mess.

So what's next, are they sending you a different GTX 680 or are you going to move on to the 7950?

I'm torn was to what to do - either I get a refund but then pay $37 restocking fee >_< @*#$!

Or have it replaced/"repaired" and risk this whole fiasco all over again.

I think I'll just eat the $40 refund crap and go with AMD. This left an incredible sour taste in my mouth.

I will say this though: EVGA has stellar customer service. Very, very impressed with that.
 
I might have missed the relevant post in this thread, but have you tried the cards performance under windows just to see if its consistent with the frame rates one would expect with a 680?

I got my 680 a while ago now, but I gotta admit I was equally disappointed with its performance under OSX. Spent a long time refusing to install windows and loving being windows free. But alas Ive been forced (due to non steamworks titles) to have a windows install, purely for my steam library, and nothing else. Does the trick.
 
I might have missed the relevant post in this thread, but have you tried the cards performance under windows just to see if its consistent with the frame rates one would expect with a 680?

I got my 680 a while ago now, but I gotta admit I was equally disappointed with its performance under OSX. Spent a long time refusing to install windows and loving being windows free. But alas Ive been forced (due to non steamworks titles) to have a windows install, purely for my steam library, and nothing else. Does the trick.


The fact that it performs slower/half as fast under OS X as the 5770 means something is definitely faulty with it. The 5770 almost provides all the grunt I need, but I want future proof Metal support, plus more GPU power never hurts.

It's on it's way back; talked to EVGA and it's all in motion. Pity, but oh well.

I may throw Windows on just for Windows only games, but that's for another time if I don't get a console for such games.
 
Whatever card you get next, I hope you follow up with test results because I've become really curious about this topic.
 
You're wasting your time gaming in OS X. Drivers are rubbish, Open GL is rubbish (and so is apples implementation of it), the ports are lazy and slow. Once you get past those issues you'll run into a lot of mouse weirdness in games too.

Just install windows and enjoy your time, instead of trying to unravel why OS X is such a poor platform for 3D gaming.

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with this.

I'm using a genuine EVGA 680 Mac Edition, and the performance difference from 10.10.3/4 to windows 8.1 pro is staggering. The worst offender I have is good old Minecraft. With newest Java, and some mods and addons, in OSX it maxes around 68fps. With the exact same mods/addons, and same settings, in Windows, it hits over 200fps.

Until Metal is widely used and hopefully solves this problem, I dont recommend any high end 3d games in OSX.
 
A bit of an update with more specific numbers -

The Unity based game Robo Dodgeball (fun game btw) - runs at 20 FPS on the 5770,



Many thanks for the reply -

I actually fresh installed Mavericks from Yosemite then back to Yosemite from Mavericks - All USB clean installs.

HOWEVER - I see what's going on! I downloaded iStat Menu (amazing bit of kit) and when running Borderlands or MW2 for example, the GPU processor usage hovers around 30% - when running Robo Dodgeball that's built in the Unity Engine, it goes full bore to 98% and I get 5-6 times the performance of the 5770 (just tried this now) -

With the 5770 I'm getting 20 FPS 30 TOPS in the game, with the GTX 680 I'm getting over 110 constant/minimum, sometimes 200FPS.

So the issue is indubitably the GPU being stuck on kind of low power state when running any game other than Robo Roller Derby Disco Dodgeball.


It's going to drive me absolutely insane if I have to RMA this card and wait another two weeks, but if it has to be done..


Below are attached photos of exactly what's going on and what I'm talking about -

When you see a game running slow, yet using very little GPU and CPU, its a sign its badly optimized or badly programmed. I tried a mac game, Second Life, and it was very slow, sluggish, and maxed at around 9-12 fps on the mac pro in my sig. GPU use on the 680 was like 20-25%. I was so angry I contacted the programmers and started asking them questions. They told me they dont actually own any macs, and use an emulator to make the mac port. They also said none of them know how to program in cocoa, and the game is being done in I think he said carbon. I said why dont they hire a mac programmer, or find one that might at least give advice. He said 'mac programmers dont grow on trees, we cant afford that'. In windows 8.1, the same game with same settings runs the vid card at 99%, and averages 90-120fps.

Dont blame the vid card when you see this happen in mac games. Its the programmers fault and a bad mac port.
 
When you see a game running slow, yet using very little GPU and CPU, its a sign its badly optimized or badly programmed.

Dont blame the vid card when you see this happen in mac games. Its the programmers fault and a bad mac port.

I don't think that's what's going on here; when a game is running FASTER on a 5 year old mid range GPU vs the 680, something is clearly very wrong. If all the games would run faster on the 680 but still a bit behind in Windows, I'd be fine with that.

So UPDATE 2 - I'm sending it in to get it replaced from EVGA. Hopefully the second one fairs better, if not, Windows may be going on the Mac Pro.
 
Biggest update - I'm going back to Windows for gaming. Gav and all them were right; after selling my gaming PC and using my Mac Pro for gaming only, I got used to OS X and forgot about how much colossally better Windows is for gaming.

It's night and day.

The 2-3 times better FPS aside, the whole FEEL is just far superior on Windows.

Maybe Metal will change that, but for now, I'll definitely be building a gaming rig to complement my Mac Pro.

I should still have a replacement Mac Edition 680 on the way once I send this one back, and if anyone's interested I'll post if it performs any differently under OS X.


Thanks all for the replies!
 
Would it not make more economic sense to toss in a high powered video card like a 980Ti or Titan X than build a whole separate rig? Use OS X for getting work done and Bootcamp for gaming.
 
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Would it not make more economic sense to toss in a high powered video card like a 980Ti or Titan X than build a whole separate rig? Use OS X for getting work done and Bootcamp for gaming.
Seconded. A 980 or a Ti won't require external power and with the 3.33/3.46 single or dual socket hex Xeon's and lots more ram it's more than competitive with modern rigs and it's also a real Mac. Using the 1tb Apple PCIe blade with Win10 TP I have installed I know that my 6 year old Macintosh can not only keep up but compete too.

No wonder it's my favourite all time Mac along with many others on this forum it does the absolute lot :)

But there's an identical upgrade path to the Mac Pro 4-5,1 buying a used dual socket HP Z600 workstation. Much cheaper, ugly, louder but equally effective for any gamer on a budget. Not a Mac though ;-)
 
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I like the idea of keeping the two separate, personally.
 
I sincerely hope Metal can solve the slow gaming speed of OSX. I will be the first to cheer if apple can equal or at least come close to directx performance using Metal.

I do prefer OSX to windows for nearly all tasks, but in games its just too slow. I have enjoyed video games since the early 80's, so I cant shake my gaming habit.. lol. When OSX games as well as windows, then I can finally be done with windows completely.
 
I like the idea of keeping the two separate, personally.

Fair enough, though I did the same by having a dedicated drive for Windows. They're about as separate as they can get while being inside the same system.
 
Yes, because a cMP 4,1/5,1 with 3.33/3.46 Hex Core Xeon is a great and competitive PC too.

I also have a dedicated drive with Windows 7 64 Bit. For example GTA V and Crysis run great. E.g. GTA V uses all six cores, like more modern games originally developed for PlayStation (which provides 6 cores for applications). Seen from such an angle the maximum single core speed is no more that important. In this regard Core i7-4790K 4GHz Quad core is not better than Xeon 3.46 GHz Hex core. It's the six cores that count, and of course the graphics card.

I have only e few OS X games, like StarCraft II and WARCRAFT III, the rest I have is PC version.

Even StarCraft 1 from 1998 (!) is far better playable on the PC than on the Mac. :rolleyes: I played both versions. The Mac version for G3/G4 was crap. (I like these old games, playing them occasionally with a Core2 Duo 2.4 GHz PC with GTX 560 on Windows XP).
 
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I sincerely hope Metal can solve the slow gaming speed of OSX. I will be the first to cheer if apple can equal or at least come close to directx performance using Metal.

I do prefer OSX to windows for nearly all tasks, but in games its just too slow. I have enjoyed video games since the early 80's, so I cant shake my gaming habit.. lol. When OSX games as well as windows, then I can finally be done with windows completely.
Macs have never been good gaming machines and will probably never be. As much as I loved my macs since '93 (switched from the Amiga which was a gamer's dream) I've always been frustrated with the poor choice of games and poor experience/performance compared to other platforms. I still had a good time playing countless hours on my macs, but it was never on par with what I could experience on my friends PCs (the PPC era was especially tough). I can get why developers don't care polishing a game for a platform with a 5% personal computer market share made by a company which doesn't target gamers.

The biggest leap for gaming on mac was the arrival of BootCamp (and the cMP too but that has come to and end), and it won't get any better than this. I can't see how metal would improve things. Who will develop games for metal appart from iOS devs (and god iOS games are mostly horrible grinding freemium empty nonsense) ? Most titles will still come for console/Windows and DX11/12 and some of them will be ported to Apple APIs with more or less care as it has always been. These ports often come with the usual performance degradation, missing graphics features, glitches and unpracticality (impossible to switch from application, unaware of HiDPi displays, overriding function keys, preferences and save files in odd locations, limited controller support, etc). Even Windows which comes with decades of gaming performance refinements has the same problem with console ports, consoles representing the largest part of today's gaming market and the main target for game studios.

Some companies do treat the mac gamers audience with love and end up with a product that performs mostly the same on both platforms and has the "mac feel", like games from Blizzard, ID Software or most of the SimCity and Civilization series for example, all made by studios with a more than two decades experience and commitment developing games for mac from the ground up (as opposed to being ported afterwards by Aspyr or Feral, which still makes a decent job out of it). Some performs also better on macs because they were developed on mac like Prison Architect (the only mac game I played that's aware of HiDPi display), but these are and will be exceptions until the mac represents a decent part of the gamers market.

If you're serious about gaming (serious enough to buy a gamer graphics card like the 680), there is one instant solution to most of your performance and graphics quality problems, get yourself a Windows partition. That's the single biggest and cheapest performance upgrade you can offer yourself today and with SSDs rebooting is not the pain it used to be. Or you can wait and hope Apple and game developers start really caring about mac gamers like I did for years. Just don't expect a system update or the metal API to fix everything like a magic wand, this has never happened despite numerous hopes in the past. It will more likely break compatibility with some of your older games, and with a yearly major system update cycle this happens pretty often.

Performance tuning requires a lot of dedication and knowledge from devs, Apple and graphics drivers providers for each game on each piece of hardware and there's no other way around it. Metal will give devs more opportunities to fine tune their software given they are willing to spend the effort first. Unfortunately few people are ready to invest this time and money for the mac platform today, especially given that all macs can now run Windows.
 
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I'm really curious what bad-performing games all of you are talking about. I don't claim that OS X is a good gaming platform (mainly because some important AAA titles are missing), but I've never had any problems with the Mac ports available (apart from the very first Cider games; EA, I'm looking at you ;)).
Every single Mac game I own runs perfectly smooth on max-out settings on my machine and the odd mouse acceleration can easily be deactivated resulting in quite much the same gaming experience as in Windows (I have a Win7 installation, too, so I can compare), so I don't see why someone shouldn't play the available Mac ports. Especially Feral does IMHO a very good job, but even the last Cider ports I played performed surprisingly well.
 
Fair enough, though I did the same by having a dedicated drive for Windows. They're about as separate as they can get while being inside the same system.

Ditto. Great solution, and the one I ended up with after quite a while of trying to be windows free. I also think the investment of a 980ti would be great, exact path im planning to go down now, and also have an EVGA gtx680.

On a side note, I hope metal fixes things too, but we have DX12 and Vulkan coming out soon also, whom I dare say will still be the preferred gaming API's with better performance. Hope I'm wrong and metal is every bit as good.
 
I'm really curious what bad-performing games all of you are talking about. I don't claim that OS X is a good gaming platform (mainly because some important AAA titles are missing), but I've never had any problems with the Mac ports available (apart from the very first Cider games; EA, I'm looking at you ;)).
Every single Mac game I own runs perfectly smooth on max-out settings on my machine and the odd mouse acceleration can easily be deactivated resulting in quite much the same gaming experience as in Windows (I have a Win7 installation, too, so I can compare), so I don't see why someone shouldn't play the available Mac ports. Especially Feral does IMHO a very good job, but even the last Cider ports I played performed surprisingly well.

Than compare for example Command and Conquer from app store with the PC version: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/command-conquer-generals-deluxe/id912423770?mt=12 The PC version is far better.
 
I'm really curious what bad-performing games all of you are talking about. I don't claim that OS X is a good gaming platform (mainly because some important AAA titles are missing), but I've never had any problems with the Mac ports available (apart from the very first Cider games; EA, I'm looking at you ;)).
Every single Mac game I own runs perfectly smooth on max-out settings on my machine and the odd mouse acceleration can easily be deactivated resulting in quite much the same gaming experience as in Windows (I have a Win7 installation, too, so I can compare), so I don't see why someone shouldn't play the available Mac ports. Especially Feral does IMHO a very good job, but even the last Cider ports I played performed surprisingly well.

I had a similar experience to the original poster. I was heavily into X-Plane back when the 680 came out. Upgraded from an older (slower) ATI card to the 680, expected huge improvements, yet saw a decrease in frame rates in X-Plane. My 680 worked stunningly well in Windows though, so I could onlly presume it was osx (opengl, graphics drivers, other or graphics code somewhere) that was holding back the nvidia chip. I honestly expected a few osx updates to fix/improve kepler support, at least to the point of being better than my old ATI card - but switched to windows for gaming soon after and left osx gaming behind so never saw it happen. Looking at the original posters results, I suspect things might have improved but are still spotty for kepler support in osx. Either that or he had a faulty card.

Specifically to repond to your post, I agree that mac gaming can get people by okay, and does the job for quite a few ports. But if one wants to truly get the most out of their hardware, in terms of graphics quality settings and optimal frame rates then windows is still far superior for now.
 
I guess the inconsistent performance of the nVidia driver can be explained by something like in this story:

http://www.gamedev.net/topic/666419-what-are-your-opinions-on-dx12vulkanmantle/#entry5215019

Basically, the code path in the driver (under windows) depends very much on the game running. The driver tries to determine the fastest method to render something. While this works most of the time it may fail other times - as we see in this thread.

Additionally, games may try to detect the GPU and internally choose their own different code paths to avoid performance pitfalls. However, since the GTX680 and the 7950 are aftermarket options for the Mac Pro, I'm not sure if game developers always include these two GPUs in their detection algorithms. Perhaps someone from Feral or Aspyr could share some light on this question.

I would not be surprised if the real reason behind the low performance lies in the fact that simply the last fallback rending path is chosen and thus the performance is quite low.
 
UPDATE -

So the replacement card arrived from EVGA, and after calling them to verify, it's definitely a different serial number. Same. Exact. Thing. 99% of the games run really, really poorly under OS X, however the Unity Engine Valley benchmark is literally .2 off from Barefeats score. For some reason Heaven is about 14 FPS slower on my own machine, but could be anything - not worried about it.

Big shame I can't experience sublime frame rates under OS X yet, but hopefully Metal will allow the GPU core to be properly engaged on games under OS X.
 
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I've been waiting for your followup, so thanks for posting that. I've been curious about this whole thing.

Having problems down to the level of specific maps on specific games is the sort of thing that might be fixed in Windows in a matter of months, or much faster for a new/popular title. But on the Mac? Maybe never.

So I admit I was hoping for bad hardware.
 
THIS.

Gaming in OS X is brutal.


Well, as I've said before; I was getting great performance with the 5770 on OS X - so gaming on OS X is absolutely fine, and some games even run faster on OS X vs. Windows (I experienced this with Warsow - Open Source FPS) and Portal 2 for example is at almost parity with Windows.

It's merely that the 680 (not the hardware, note), due to some kind of bug or something, isn't performing like it should under OS X, sometimes even slower than the 5770.

But as I noted, too - Heaven and Valley (especially Valley) spin the GPU cooler fan to full bore and I get beautifully frame rates and benches right in line with Barefeats.

Again, hopefully Metal will change everything!
 
I've been waiting for your followup, so thanks for posting that. I've been curious about this whole thing.

Having problems down to the level of specific maps on specific games is the sort of thing that might be fixed in Windows in a matter of months, or much faster for a new/popular title. But on the Mac? Maybe never.

So I admit I was hoping for bad hardware.


No worries, and same here. Was really hoping it was a bum card, but at least I know it CAN absolutely perform just as it should on my machine given the Unity Engine benchmarks. They really ramp up the GPU fan to full bore and I get awesome frame rates, and Valley is literally on point of Barefeats - almost identical score.

Hopefully Metal will fix this odd phenomenon.
 
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